Question: Mounting partition to NTFS folder. Quirky?

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Nathan Baker, Dec 1, 2006.

  1. Nathan Baker

    Nathan Baker Guest

    Hey all,
    I recently bought a 300GB SATA drive. It installed beautifully, I got
    the BIOS configured, Windows found drivers for the device without me
    even having to do anything, blah blah blah. I used the LDMS to split
    the drive into two partitions: the first is 200GB and the second is
    about 80GB (the rest being eaten by the Retail Hard Drive Size
    Exaggeration Monster).

    I then mounted the partition into an NTFS folder, and tried to copy
    some files. Unfortunately, the copy failed almost immediately, saying
    that the file could not be found. I found this odd, as the file was
    certainly there. So I tried to delete the folder it created. Explorer
    acted as if the folder were in use, saying Access Denied.

    I was very confused about this bizarre behavior. I have another
    partition on an IDE drive mounted into a folder, and it works great. I
    tried reformatting the partition again, changing the cluster size,
    making sure the cable was plugged in well, and (of course) rebooting. I
    also ran Scandisk, which found no errors.

    As a last resort, I mapped the drive to a drive letter (rather than a
    folder). To my great surprise, everything worked. The files I could not
    previously copy (it is worth noting that it was the same files each
    time which refused to copy) now copied perfectly, and I could delete
    the previously undeletable folders. To make sure I wasn't going crazy,
    I remounted it into a folder. Bam, the same files refused to copy, and
    the folders gave Access Denied errors again.

    I really want to mount this partition in a folder. Can anyone give me
    hints as to what I might be doing wrong about this? Is it a SATA/IDE
    issue, since that's the only difference between the partition I have
    mounted to a folder and the ones which are failing?

    More standard info:
    -The SATA drivers I'm using are apparently included with Windows. My
    motherboard manufacturer does not have 64-bit drivers for the SATA
    interface. The motherboard is an nForce 3 chipset (MSI K8N Neo2).

    Thanks much,
    Nathan
     
    Nathan Baker, Dec 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. Nathan Baker

    Theo Guest

    Nathan Baker wrote:
    > Hey all,
    > I recently bought a 300GB SATA drive. It installed beautifully, I got
    > the BIOS configured, Windows found drivers for the device without me
    > even having to do anything, blah blah blah. I used the LDMS to split
    > the drive into two partitions: the first is 200GB and the second is
    > about 80GB (the rest being eaten by the Retail Hard Drive Size
    > Exaggeration Monster).


    There is no "Exaggeration Monster" that eats hard drive space!

    The perceived discrepancy comes from the fact that hard
    drive space is expressed in 2 different number bases.

    The larger number is the space expressed in decimal, base
    10, the system you use daily to count your money, etc.

    The smaller number is the exact same space expressed in
    binary, base 2, which you don't use on a daily basis.

    Example: a Seagate 120 GB Hard drive

    in decimal = 120,015,024,128 bytes

    in binary it is rounded to 111GB

    In Windows Explorer do a right click on a hard drive that
    has all it's space allocated to a single partition. Note
    the information about the hard drive space carefully and you
    see the decimal size in the center and the binary space on
    the right. The figures given are equal even though they are
    expressed in two different number systems.
     
    Theo, Dec 1, 2006
    #2
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  3. Nathan Baker

    Nathan Baker Guest

    I am familiar with the differences between base 10 and base 2, thank
    you. To expedite the answering of my real question, I am willing to
    concede the point.

    Nathan
     
    Nathan Baker, Dec 1, 2006
    #3
  4. I don't think this is a SATA or other hardware issue. It _may_ be a drive
    size issue.

    The short answer is that mounted volumes are, frankly, not as well
    implemented as I think they should be. I've seen several issues with them.
    As someone coming from the UNIX world, I was very much looking forward to
    this functionality. But I've stopped trying to use it, and just do the drive
    letter thing.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64


    "Nathan Baker" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hey all,
    > I recently bought a 300GB SATA drive. It installed beautifully, I got
    > the BIOS configured, Windows found drivers for the device without me
    > even having to do anything, blah blah blah. I used the LDMS to split
    > the drive into two partitions: the first is 200GB and the second is
    > about 80GB (the rest being eaten by the Retail Hard Drive Size
    > Exaggeration Monster).
    >
    > I then mounted the partition into an NTFS folder, and tried to copy
    > some files. Unfortunately, the copy failed almost immediately, saying
    > that the file could not be found. I found this odd, as the file was
    > certainly there. So I tried to delete the folder it created. Explorer
    > acted as if the folder were in use, saying Access Denied.
    >
    > I was very confused about this bizarre behavior. I have another
    > partition on an IDE drive mounted into a folder, and it works great. I
    > tried reformatting the partition again, changing the cluster size,
    > making sure the cable was plugged in well, and (of course) rebooting. I
    > also ran Scandisk, which found no errors.
    >
    > As a last resort, I mapped the drive to a drive letter (rather than a
    > folder). To my great surprise, everything worked. The files I could not
    > previously copy (it is worth noting that it was the same files each
    > time which refused to copy) now copied perfectly, and I could delete
    > the previously undeletable folders. To make sure I wasn't going crazy,
    > I remounted it into a folder. Bam, the same files refused to copy, and
    > the folders gave Access Denied errors again.
    >
    > I really want to mount this partition in a folder. Can anyone give me
    > hints as to what I might be doing wrong about this? Is it a SATA/IDE
    > issue, since that's the only difference between the partition I have
    > mounted to a folder and the ones which are failing?
    >
    > More standard info:
    > -The SATA drivers I'm using are apparently included with Windows. My
    > motherboard manufacturer does not have 64-bit drivers for the SATA
    > interface. The motherboard is an nForce 3 chipset (MSI K8N Neo2).
    >
    > Thanks much,
    > Nathan
    >
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Dec 1, 2006
    #4
  5. I am a bit confounded - mostly because I didn't even know this functioanlity
    was being implemented, but Nathan tries to copy to the mounted volume via a
    directory on a NTFS volume, but he doesn't mention what filesystem the
    mounted volume is using. In the Unix world most systems can handle a mounted
    NTFS volume, but a plain vanilla Windows installation can not manage
    anything but NTFS or FAT! It might have implications to the answer?

    Tony. . .


    "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I don't think this is a SATA or other hardware issue. It _may_ be a drive
    > size issue.
    >
    > The short answer is that mounted volumes are, frankly, not as well
    > implemented as I think they should be. I've seen several issues with them.
    > As someone coming from the UNIX world, I was very much looking forward to
    > this functionality. But I've stopped trying to use it, and just do the

    drive
    > letter thing.
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.
    > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    >
    >
    > "Nathan Baker" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hey all,
    > > I recently bought a 300GB SATA drive. It installed beautifully, I got
    > > the BIOS configured, Windows found drivers for the device without me
    > > even having to do anything, blah blah blah. I used the LDMS to split
    > > the drive into two partitions: the first is 200GB and the second is
    > > about 80GB (the rest being eaten by the Retail Hard Drive Size
    > > Exaggeration Monster).
    > >
    > > I then mounted the partition into an NTFS folder, and tried to copy
    > > some files. Unfortunately, the copy failed almost immediately, saying
    > > that the file could not be found. I found this odd, as the file was
    > > certainly there. So I tried to delete the folder it created. Explorer
    > > acted as if the folder were in use, saying Access Denied.
    > >
    > > I was very confused about this bizarre behavior. I have another
    > > partition on an IDE drive mounted into a folder, and it works great. I
    > > tried reformatting the partition again, changing the cluster size,
    > > making sure the cable was plugged in well, and (of course) rebooting. I
    > > also ran Scandisk, which found no errors.
    > >
    > > As a last resort, I mapped the drive to a drive letter (rather than a
    > > folder). To my great surprise, everything worked. The files I could not
    > > previously copy (it is worth noting that it was the same files each
    > > time which refused to copy) now copied perfectly, and I could delete
    > > the previously undeletable folders. To make sure I wasn't going crazy,
    > > I remounted it into a folder. Bam, the same files refused to copy, and
    > > the folders gave Access Denied errors again.
    > >
    > > I really want to mount this partition in a folder. Can anyone give me
    > > hints as to what I might be doing wrong about this? Is it a SATA/IDE
    > > issue, since that's the only difference between the partition I have
    > > mounted to a folder and the ones which are failing?
    > >
    > > More standard info:
    > > -The SATA drivers I'm using are apparently included with Windows. My
    > > motherboard manufacturer does not have 64-bit drivers for the SATA
    > > interface. The motherboard is an nForce 3 chipset (MSI K8N Neo2).
    > >
    > > Thanks much,
    > > Nathan
    > >

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Dec 1, 2006
    #5
  6. Nathan Baker

    Dshai Guest

    To take that to an additional level, a kilobyte (to stay at a base level) is
    not 1000 bytes, it is 2 raised to the 10th power or 1024, hence the
    difference between the two numerical bases Theo mentioned.

    Dshai

    "Theo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Nathan Baker wrote:
    >> Hey all,
    >> I recently bought a 300GB SATA drive. It installed beautifully, I got
    >> the BIOS configured, Windows found drivers for the device without me
    >> even having to do anything, blah blah blah. I used the LDMS to split
    >> the drive into two partitions: the first is 200GB and the second is
    >> about 80GB (the rest being eaten by the Retail Hard Drive Size
    >> Exaggeration Monster).

    >
    > There is no "Exaggeration Monster" that eats hard drive space!
    >
    > The perceived discrepancy comes from the fact that hard drive space is
    > expressed in 2 different number bases.
    >
    > The larger number is the space expressed in decimal, base 10, the system
    > you use daily to count your money, etc.
    >
    > The smaller number is the exact same space expressed in binary, base 2,
    > which you don't use on a daily basis.
    >
    > Example: a Seagate 120 GB Hard drive
    >
    > in decimal = 120,015,024,128 bytes
    >
    > in binary it is rounded to 111GB
    >
    > In Windows Explorer do a right click on a hard drive that has all it's
    > space allocated to a single partition. Note the information about the
    > hard drive space carefully and you see the decimal size in the center and
    > the binary space on the right. The figures given are equal even though
    > they are expressed in two different number systems.
    >
    >
     
    Dshai, Dec 1, 2006
    #6
  7. Nathan Baker

    Nathan Baker Guest

    Thanks for the responses. I will try to address the issues raised.

    Charlie: Thanks for pointing that out. As I say, I have, on two
    different computers, mounted NTFS partitions to folders and been quite
    satisfied with the behavior. I don't think the issue is a drive size
    issue. On my work computer I have a 100GB partition mounted into a
    folder with no problems, and one of the partitions I am attempting to
    mount here is "only" 80GB.

    Tony: Sorry for being unclear. Both the target partition and the source
    partition are NTFS. Trying to format a 200GB partition as FAT32 would
    be appalling, to say the least! :)

    If it were just an issue of this feature being poorly-implemented, I
    could accept that (maybe not gracefully, but I could accept it).
    However, since I have been using this feature with no problems up until
    now, I'm very puzzled as to what is going on now.

    I appreciate your time,
    Nathan
     
    Nathan Baker, Dec 1, 2006
    #7
  8. Nathan Baker

    Nathan Baker Guest

    I'm pretty sure this is a Windows issue, not a hardware issue. I tried
    mounting a partition from another drive (not the new one) into a folder
    on a different drive (also not the new one), and I observed the same
    behavior. How I got one partition mounted like this and working I have
    no idea, but I'm not going to touch that one, or else it might break
    too :)

    Any other suggestions will be appreciated, though by searching around
    both groups and the web, I haven't found many people taking advantage
    of this feature (or if they are, they're not talking about it).

    Nathan
     
    Nathan Baker, Dec 2, 2006
    #8
  9. Nathan Baker

    Theo Guest

    I just mounted partitions into empty folders in both Win XP
    (32-bit) and Win x64 on a single SATA drive with 2
    partitions and had no problem copying to or from in either
    system. I did discover in both Win XP and Win x64 that I
    could not mount a volume of my IDE drive into the folder on
    the SATA drive in either Win XP nor Win x64. Will try
    mounting from the IDE drive later.


    Nathan Baker wrote:
    > Hey all,
    > I recently bought a 300GB SATA drive. It installed beautifully, I got
    > the BIOS configured, Windows found drivers for the device without me
    > even having to do anything, blah blah blah. I used the LDMS to split
    > the drive into two partitions: the first is 200GB and the second is
    > about 80GB (the rest being eaten by the Retail Hard Drive Size
    > Exaggeration Monster).
    >
    > I then mounted the partition into an NTFS folder, and tried to copy
    > some files. Unfortunately, the copy failed almost immediately, saying
    > that the file could not be found. I found this odd, as the file was
    > certainly there. So I tried to delete the folder it created. Explorer
    > acted as if the folder were in use, saying Access Denied.
    >
    > I was very confused about this bizarre behavior. I have another
    > partition on an IDE drive mounted into a folder, and it works great. I
    > tried reformatting the partition again, changing the cluster size,
    > making sure the cable was plugged in well, and (of course) rebooting. I
    > also ran Scandisk, which found no errors.
    >
    > As a last resort, I mapped the drive to a drive letter (rather than a
    > folder). To my great surprise, everything worked. The files I could not
    > previously copy (it is worth noting that it was the same files each
    > time which refused to copy) now copied perfectly, and I could delete
    > the previously undeletable folders. To make sure I wasn't going crazy,
    > I remounted it into a folder. Bam, the same files refused to copy, and
    > the folders gave Access Denied errors again.
    >
    > I really want to mount this partition in a folder. Can anyone give me
    > hints as to what I might be doing wrong about this? Is it a SATA/IDE
    > issue, since that's the only difference between the partition I have
    > mounted to a folder and the ones which are failing?
    >
    > More standard info:
    > -The SATA drivers I'm using are apparently included with Windows. My
    > motherboard manufacturer does not have 64-bit drivers for the SATA
    > interface. The motherboard is an nForce 3 chipset (MSI K8N Neo2).
    >
    > Thanks much,
    > Nathan
    >
     
    Theo, Dec 2, 2006
    #9
  10. Nathan Baker

    Theo Guest

    I just mounted partitions into empty folders in both Win XP
    (32-bit) and Win x64 on a single SATA drive with 2
    partitions and had no problem copying to or from in either
    system. I did discover in both Win XP and Win x64 that I
    could not mount a volume of my IDE drive into the folder on
    the SATA drive in either Win XP nor Win x64. Will try
    mounting from the IDE drive later.


    Nathan Baker wrote:
    > I'm pretty sure this is a Windows issue, not a hardware issue. I tried
    > mounting a partition from another drive (not the new one) into a folder
    > on a different drive (also not the new one), and I observed the same
    > behavior. How I got one partition mounted like this and working I have
    > no idea, but I'm not going to touch that one, or else it might break
    > too :)
    >
    > Any other suggestions will be appreciated, though by searching around
    > both groups and the web, I haven't found many people taking advantage
    > of this feature (or if they are, they're not talking about it).
    >
    > Nathan
    >
     
    Theo, Dec 2, 2006
    #10
  11. Nathan Baker

    Nathan Baker Guest

    Thanks for investigating this, Theo. I have successfully mounted IDE -
    > IDE when both are connected to the same storage controller. However, I can't get SATA -> IDE to work, and IDE -> IDE also fails when the drives are on different storage controllers (one on my add-in RAID card and one on my onboard IDE).


    It is worth noting that I *think* the errors are actually coming from
    Explorer, not from the NTFS driver or the kernel. Everything works fine
    when I copy or delete from the command line. Thus, I'm going to assume
    that Windows Explorer does not properly handle reparse points which
    span storage controllers. I have searched for a workaround, but haven't
    found anything useful thus far.

    I appreciate the assistance in this. I have gone to Google Groups
    several times for assistance, and this has by far been the most
    helpful. Additional comments are, of course, always welcome :)

    Nathan
     
    Nathan Baker, Dec 2, 2006
    #11
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