Question about the evil Googlegroups headers

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by thanatoid, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Hi gang,

    I, like many of you, am suffering due to the evil encroachment
    of Googlegroupers upon our refuge.

    Leaving that aside, I have a question about Google's stupid
    headers.

    I have for a variety of irrelevant reasons, checked the headers
    of various GG posts.

    They all say something like:

    Injection-Info: 22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com;
    posting-host=64.12.116.133;
    posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0

    The first two lines are different according to where the message
    was posted from, like:
    Injection-Info: y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com;
    posting-host=64.12.117.7

    but the posting-account is always the sane:
    ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0

    I don't understand this. Shouldn't each Googlegrouper have
    his/her own account? Isn't that the point of having the account
    in the header, for tracking etc. purposes? WHY is it always the
    same?

    Does anyone know?

    Thanks.
    t.

    (Oh, and BTW, death to Googlegroups.)
    thanatoid, Oct 3, 2007
    #1
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  2. thanatoid

    Evan Platt Guest

    On 03 Oct 2007 17:30:46 GMT, thanatoid <>
    wrote:

    >Hi gang,
    >
    >I, like many of you, am suffering due to the evil encroachment
    >of Googlegroupers upon our refuge.
    >
    >Leaving that aside, I have a question about Google's stupid
    >headers.
    >
    >I have for a variety of irrelevant reasons, checked the headers
    >of various GG posts.
    >
    >They all say something like:
    >
    >Injection-Info: 22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com;
    >posting-host=64.12.116.133;
    >posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
    >
    >The first two lines are different according to where the message
    >was posted from, like:
    >Injection-Info: y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com;
    >posting-host=64.12.117.7
    >
    >but the posting-account is always the sane:
    >ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
    >
    >I don't understand this. Shouldn't each Googlegrouper have
    >his/her own account? Isn't that the point of having the account
    >in the header, for tracking etc. purposes? WHY is it always the
    >same?
    >
    >Does anyone know?


    To post via GG, you need a e-mail address - valid. You cannot use
    someone@invalid. To sign up, you need to receive an e-mail to that
    address, then click on the link. All your posts come from that address
    (unless they changed it). So tracking down the idiot who posted isn't
    a big deal.
    --
    To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious from my e-mail address.
    Evan Platt, Oct 3, 2007
    #2
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  3. thanatoid

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2007-10-03, thanatoid <> wrote:
    > Hi gang,
    >
    > I, like many of you, am suffering due to the evil encroachment
    > of Googlegroupers upon our refuge.
    >
    > Leaving that aside, I have a question about Google's stupid
    > headers.
    >
    > I have for a variety of irrelevant reasons, checked the headers
    > of various GG posts.
    >
    > They all say something like:
    >
    > Injection-Info: 22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com;
    > posting-host=64.12.116.133;
    > posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
    >
    > The first two lines are different according to where the message
    > was posted from, like:
    > Injection-Info: y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com;
    > posting-host=64.12.117.7
    >
    > but the posting-account is always the sane:
    > ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
    >
    > I don't understand this. Shouldn't each Googlegrouper have
    > his/her own account? Isn't that the point of having the account
    > in the header, for tracking etc. purposes? WHY is it always the
    > same?
    >
    > Does anyone know?
    >
    > Thanks.
    > t.
    >
    > (Oh, and BTW, death to Googlegroups.)


    I'm sure the 'posting account' used to be different for each googler.
    Perhaps this is just something else that Google have managed to break?

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Oct 3, 2007
    #3
  4. thanatoid

    Mike Easter Guest

    thanatoid wrote:

    > Leaving that aside, I have a question about Google's stupid
    > headers.


    > but the posting-account is always the sane:
    > ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0


    I don't understand your question. Do you have an example of 2 messages
    from what appears to be 2 different google accounts which have the same
    posting-account code? I don't think that should be. Can you give the
    message ID of the two messages you are using as an example?

    The NPH examples you were giving were two different AOL proxy IPs --
    which could have multiple different accounts accessing by the same IP or
    type of IP and which could have the same GG identity accessing by
    different but similar AOL proxy IPs.

    > I don't understand this. Shouldn't each Googlegrouper have
    > his/her own account?


    The GGer is required to login to their GG account using their pw. If
    the pass is secure and unshared, then 2 different 'entities' (to be
    defined) should not be having the same GG From email address.

    > Isn't that the point of having the account
    > in the header, for tracking etc. purposes? WHY is it always the
    > same?


    What do you mean 'always the same'? I don't see same posting account
    code for different entities. You could see the same Injection-Info ie
    22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com



    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Oct 3, 2007
    #4
  5. thanatoid wrote:

    > Hi gang,
    >
    > I, like many of you, am suffering due to the evil encroachment
    > of Googlegroupers upon our refuge.


    Filter on one of these:

    Organization: http://groups.google.com

    X-Trace: posting.google.com

    X-Complaints-To:

    User-Agent: G2/1.0

    > They all say something like:
    >
    > Injection-Info: 22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com;
    > posting-host=64.12.116.133;
    > posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0


    Discussed here recently. The posting-account seems to always be the
    same, possibly indicating a Google posting server...

    > (Oh, and BTW, death to Googlegroups.)


    Amen.

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Oct 3, 2007
    #5
  6. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in
    news::

    > thanatoid wrote:
    >
    >> Leaving that aside, I have a question about Google's
    >> stupid headers.

    >
    >> but the posting-account is always the sane:
    >> ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0

    >
    > I don't understand your question. Do you have an example
    > of 2 messages from what appears to be 2 different google
    > accounts which have the same posting-account code? I don't
    > think that should be. Can you give the message ID of the
    > two messages you are using as an example?


    Just grabbed from this batch of this group's posts...

    a.
    Message-ID:
    <>
    Injection-Info: w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com; posting-
    host=212.72.30.140; posting-
    account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0

    b.
    Message-ID:
    <>
    Injection-Info: r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com; posting-
    host=58.61.52.201; posting-
    account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0

    There you go.

    > The NPH examples you were giving were two different AOL
    > proxy IPs -- which could have multiple different accounts
    > accessing by the same IP or type of IP and which could have
    > the same GG identity accessing by different but similar AOL
    > proxy IPs.


    AOL, now Google. WHAT NEXT!?

    >> I don't understand this. Shouldn't each Googlegrouper have
    >> his/her own account?

    >
    > The GGer is required to login to their GG account using
    > their pw. If the pass is secure and unshared, then 2
    > different 'entities' (to be defined) should not be having
    > the same GG From email address.


    The email addresses are not the same, but the "posting account"
    (as you can see above) IS - which is what got me wondering.
    Especially since the "posting address" is typical of the
    "millions-of-users" kind (AOT GoogleISevilNOW for example).

    >> Isn't that the point of having the account
    >> in the header, for tracking etc. purposes? WHY is it
    >> always the same?

    >
    > What do you mean 'always the same'? I don't see same
    > posting account code for different entities. You could see
    > the same Injection-Info ie 22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com


    See above.

    Anyway, Mr. Shagnasty explained it, I think. It still makes no
    sense to me.

    Thanks.
    thanatoid, Oct 3, 2007
    #6
  7. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote
    in
    news:pARMi.170068$
    t:

    <SNIP>

    > Discussed here recently. The posting-account seems to
    > always be the same, possibly indicating a Google posting
    > server...


    Weird. Thanks.

    >> (Oh, and BTW, death to Googlegroups.)

    >
    > Amen.


    Amen.
    thanatoid, Oct 3, 2007
    #7
  8. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Evan Platt <> wrote in
    news::

    > On 03 Oct 2007 17:30:46 GMT, thanatoid
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Hi gang,
    >>
    >>I, like many of you, am suffering due to the evil
    >>encroachment of Googlegroupers upon our refuge.
    >>
    >>Leaving that aside, I have a question about Google's stupid
    >>headers.
    >>
    >>I have for a variety of irrelevant reasons, checked the
    >>headers of various GG posts.
    >>
    >>They all say something like:
    >>
    >>Injection-Info: 22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com;
    >>posting-host=64.12.116.133;
    >>posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
    >>
    >>The first two lines are different according to where the
    >>message was posted from, like:
    >>Injection-Info: y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com;
    >>posting-host=64.12.117.7
    >>
    >>but the posting-account is always the sane:
    >>ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
    >>
    >>I don't understand this. Shouldn't each Googlegrouper have
    >>his/her own account? Isn't that the point of having the
    >>account in the header, for tracking etc. purposes? WHY is
    >>it always the same?
    >>
    >>Does anyone know?

    >
    > To post via GG, you need a e-mail address - valid. You
    > cannot use someone@invalid. To sign up, you need to receive
    > an e-mail to that address, then click on the link. All your
    > posts come from that address (unless they changed it). So
    > tracking down the idiot who posted isn't a big deal.


    Too many idiots to track. I was just curious because it makes no
    sense. See my reply to Mr. Easter for examples.
    Thanks for your reply.
    thanatoid, Oct 3, 2007
    #8
  9. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Whiskers <> wrote in
    news:
    t:

    > On 2007-10-03, thanatoid <> wrote:
    >> Hi gang,
    >>
    >> I, like many of you, am suffering due to the evil
    >> encroachment of Googlegroupers upon our refuge.
    >>
    >> Leaving that aside, I have a question about Google's
    >> stupid headers.
    >>
    >> I have for a variety of irrelevant reasons, checked the
    >> headers of various GG posts.
    >>
    >> They all say something like:
    >>
    >> Injection-Info: 22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com;
    >> posting-host=64.12.116.133;
    >> posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
    >>
    >> The first two lines are different according to where the
    >> message was posted from, like:
    >> Injection-Info: y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com;
    >> posting-host=64.12.117.7
    >>
    >> but the posting-account is always the sane:
    >> ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
    >>
    >> I don't understand this. Shouldn't each Googlegrouper have
    >> his/her own account? Isn't that the point of having the
    >> account in the header, for tracking etc. purposes? WHY is
    >> it always the same?
    >>
    >> Does anyone know?
    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >> t.
    >>
    >> (Oh, and BTW, death to Googlegroups.)

    >
    > I'm sure the 'posting account' used to be different for
    > each googler. Perhaps this is just something else that
    > Google have managed to break?


    Well, Mr. Shagnasty says it always used to be like this. And it
    makes no sense. See details in my reply to Mr. Easter.
    Thanks for your reply.
    thanatoid, Oct 3, 2007
    #9
  10. thanatoid

    Mike Easter Guest

    thanatoid wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"
    >> thanatoid wrote:


    >>> stupid headers.

    >>
    >>> but the posting-account is always the sane:
    >>> ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0

    >>
    >> Do you have an example
    >> of 2 messages from what appears to be 2 different google
    >> accounts which have the same posting-account code?


    > a.
    > Message-ID:
    > <>


    That is

    From:
    Newsgroups: sci.math, 24hoursupport.helpdesk, alt.religion.scientology,
    rec.travel.europe, rec.food.cooking
    Subject: Discount on New Motherboards
    Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:28:23 -0700

    > b.
    > Message-ID:
    > <>


    That is

    From: Sellbestwatch <>
    Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
    Subject: Best stock online-watch,bag,jewerly,jean,clothing,brand new $15
    Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:28:21 -0700

    First I'll say "I don't like those examples." -- and then I'll explain
    myself.

    I had to go to some trouble to find those items, because not only were
    they not to be found on my primary newsserver (which filters pretty
    aggressively, especially GG posts) -- but more importantly, they were
    not to be found by 'normal' - my typical - search strategies in
    googlegroups.

    GG search 'power' has been significantly deprecated/attenuated, whatever
    you want to call it from how good it was in the past. It could not find
    either of those messages by mid; so I used one of my
    secondary/alternate newsservers which does not filter as well as my
    primary. Then I was able to find both recent messages; and I was able
    to test if GG could find either by author, which it could not. Since
    the messages were not being produced by GG search engine, I displayed
    the group 24hshd with GG and found both recent messages in GG that way.
    I performed that step because I was beginning to doubt if they were
    available in GG - since normal search was negative.

    b.
    http://groups.google.com/group/24hoursupport.helpdesk/msg/6f863574d9932274
    a.
    http://groups.google.com/group/24hoursupport.helpdesk/msg/753166cbbba16cfd

    .... but the 'trouble' above isn't why I didn't like the examples.

    If we are trying to 'learn something' about illustrative headers, we
    have to be very confiident that the headerlines are legitimate and not
    bogus. At least one of those ie b., if not both, is sufficiently
    'funky' to distrust some number of headerlines. That is, if either of
    the examples was not actually injected via GG, then the headerlines
    which we assume to be stamped by GG aren't necessarily so, they may be
    forged.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Oct 3, 2007
    #10
  11. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in
    news::

    <SNIP>

    > ... but the 'trouble' above isn't why I didn't like the
    > examples.
    >
    > If we are trying to 'learn something' about illustrative
    > headers, we have to be very confiident that the headerlines
    > are legitimate and not bogus. At least one of those ie b.,
    > if not both, is sufficiently 'funky' to distrust some
    > number of headerlines. That is, if either of the examples
    > was not actually injected via GG, then the headerlines
    > which we assume to be stamped by GG aren't necessarily so,
    > they may be forged.


    I'm sorry you went to all the trouble. My only concern was WHY
    the "posting account" ID (ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0) is
    the same on ALL Googlegroups posts (I am assuming *all* because
    I checked about 8 from several different groups and there is NO
    way they could be from the same person).

    The reason you had trouble finding these 2, I think, is because
    they are extremely recent - minutes, I think - since you asked
    for examples, I just grabbed the ones "at hand" without thinking
    it was going to cause you any extra work.

    I had no idea you were going to search for all the info. I
    appreciate it nonetheless, and I apologize for all the hassle.

    Thanks and best wishes.

    Oh, and BTW, death to Googlegroups.
    thanatoid, Oct 3, 2007
    #11
  12. thanatoid

    Mike Easter Guest

    thanatoid wrote:

    > I'm sorry you went to all the trouble.


    Don't be sorry -- the basis for the trouble was for what /I/ wanted to
    find out.

    > My only concern was WHY
    > the "posting account" ID (ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0) is
    > the same on ALL Googlegroups posts (I am assuming *all* because
    > I checked about 8 from several different groups and there is NO
    > way they could be from the same person).


    Well, it isn't /always/ the same, but the value isn't useful for
    anything. In the past when I've examined googleheaders for 'features'
    for identity sleuthing or persona characterization, I didn't find an
    issue about common values for the posting-account values, but it is
    certainly a feature now.

    > The reason you had trouble finding these 2, I think, is because
    > they are extremely recent - minutes, I think - since you asked
    > for examples, I just grabbed the ones "at hand" without thinking
    > it was going to cause you any extra work.


    In the past, GG was extremely quick about feeding the useful data into
    the database and being able to search it. At the present time, neither
    mid will discover the post on GG, nor will the author function. There's
    definitely been a very severe deterioration of GG search function.

    > I had no idea you were going to search for all the info. I
    > appreciate it nonetheless, and I apologize for all the hassle.


    I wasn't aware that the posting-account function was 'weird'. There is
    actually an RFC pertaining to the 'requirements' for posting-account --
    but figuring out how GG is supposed to abide by such RFCs which are
    germane to nntp functions is boggling.

    My 'troubles' wasn't actually supposed to come across as a whine, but I
    guess it sounded that way.

    My view of 'identifying' GGers as to persona is to consider that the
    mission of the header analysis has to first determine if a post is
    actually a GG post or if it is a forged GG post, which is sometimes
    tricky. If it is real, then the From is a GG login persona and the NPH
    is 'legitimate' (not forged). Whether the NPH is actually useful or not
    depends on whether it is the 'real' connectivity or a proxy IP. And
    then there's the handwriting.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Oct 4, 2007
    #12
  13. thanatoid

    Tester Guest

    On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:44:46 -0700, Evan Platt
    <> wrote:

    >To post via GG, you need a e-mail address - valid. You cannot use
    >someone@invalid. To sign up, you need to receive an e-mail to that
    >address, then click on the link. All your posts come from that address
    >(unless they changed it). So tracking down the idiot who posted isn't
    >a big deal.


    I once tried to flame someone who posted an MMF ("Make Money Fast")
    and the email address was invalid. Presumably it WAS valid when they
    signed up for GG but it no longer was.

    (maybe he also used the email account for spamming)
    Tester, Oct 4, 2007
    #13
  14. thanatoid

    Evan Platt Guest

    On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 00:36:32 GMT, Tester <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:44:46 -0700, Evan Platt
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>To post via GG, you need a e-mail address - valid. You cannot use
    >>someone@invalid. To sign up, you need to receive an e-mail to that
    >>address, then click on the link. All your posts come from that address
    >>(unless they changed it). So tracking down the idiot who posted isn't
    >>a big deal.

    >
    >I once tried to flame someone who posted an MMF ("Make Money Fast")
    >and the email address was invalid. Presumably it WAS valid when they
    >signed up for GG but it no longer was.
    >
    >(maybe he also used the email account for spamming)


    Well, yes. That's possible. However, I should say you need a (at the
    time) valid e-mail address for GG. Like I said, you cannot use a
    totally invalid e-mail address with GG, such as w ,
    as that will possibly never be a valid e-mail address / TLD.
    --
    To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious from my e-mail address.
    Evan Platt, Oct 4, 2007
    #14
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