Question about Oly 8080 RAW

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ernie Klein, Feb 6, 2006.

  1. Ernie Klein

    Ernie Klein Guest

    I am rather new to digital photography. I love my Olympus 8080, but I
    usually shoot in the JPG mode. I have experimented with the RAW mode
    but refrain from using as it takes forever (10+ seconds) to save the
    image to memory before the camera is ready for the next shot. More
    often than not, I miss a really good shot while I am waiting, and the
    opportunity is lost. Often my first shot of unposed events isn't the
    best shot. Shooting JPG allows me to take several shots in the time it
    requires for one RAW.

    How do other 8080 owners handle this and is there any workaround?

    --
    -Ernie-

    "There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
    suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

    Have you done your backup today?
    Ernie Klein, Feb 6, 2006
    #1
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  2. Ernie Klein

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > I am rather new to digital photography. I love my Olympus 8080, but I
    > usually shoot in the JPG mode. I have experimented with the RAW mode
    > but refrain from using as it takes forever (10+ seconds) to save the
    > image to memory before the camera is ready for the next shot. More
    > often than not, I miss a really good shot while I am waiting, and the
    > opportunity is lost. Often my first shot of unposed events isn't the
    > best shot. Shooting JPG allows me to take several shots in the time it
    > requires for one RAW.
    >
    > How do other 8080 owners handle this and is there any workaround?


    No workaround, with the 8080 you have to wait 12 seconds if you shoot
    RAW. An option would be to set the camera to Hi mode and shoot a
    sequence of four (or five?) RAWs, to capture something moving fast, but
    then you cannot use the camera for about one minute.

    Personally I shoot exclusively RAW with my 8080, and ok, I have to wait
    12 seconds within shots. But because of this, I think carefully before
    pressing the shutter, so I end up with a higher percentage of "winning"
    images, than other people who use cameras without this huge time between
    shots.

    Sometimes (but rarely) I switch temporarily back to JPG, to be able to
    shoot faster.

    On the other hand the 8080 has a *great* lens...
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E300, E330 and E500 forum at
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    Olympus E500 resource - http://myolympus.org/E500/
    Alfred Molon, Feb 6, 2006
    #2
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  3. Ernie Klein

    Pat Guest

    If you are "rather new to digital photography" or if you are also
    "rather new to photography".

    If you are a serious photography who is switching to digital, there may
    be some advantages to shooting in RAW and lots of people in this group
    will expound on that.

    However, if you are rather new to photography and still learning the
    craft (and mostly taking snapshots as opposed to pictures intended for
    serious display), then you are probably just as well suited shooting in
    the largest of your jpg modes.

    RAW will give you more control, no doubt, but many people don't need
    that.

    Here's my thinking. If you are comfortable using Photoshop or any
    other editing program, then consider RAW. If you are just learning to
    use a program (and the camera), stick to jpg. When you discover the
    limits of jpg, then you will decide to change all by yourself. Until
    then, jpg will do everything you want it to and get you the second
    exposure.
    Pat, Feb 6, 2006
    #3
  4. Ernie Klein

    Ernie Klein Guest

    In article <>,
    "Pat" <> wrote:

    > If you are "rather new to digital photography" or if you are also
    > "rather new to photography".


    Not new to photography, but not a serious professional at all.

    > If you are a serious photography who is switching to digital, there may
    > be some advantages to shooting in RAW and lots of people in this group
    > will expound on that.
    >

    I know about the advantages of RAW, my question is about the slow frame
    to frame speed of the 8080 and if there are any workarounds.

    > However, if you are rather new to photography and still learning the
    > craft (and mostly taking snapshots as opposed to pictures intended for
    > serious display), then you are probably just as well suited shooting in
    > the largest of your jpg modes.
    >
    > RAW will give you more control, no doubt, but many people don't need
    > that.
    >
    > Here's my thinking. If you are comfortable using Photoshop or any
    > other editing program, then consider RAW. If you are just learning to
    > use a program (and the camera), stick to jpg. When you discover the
    > limits of jpg, then you will decide to change all by yourself. Until
    > then, jpg will do everything you want it to and get you the second
    > exposure.


    For the most part I agree, but there are some pictures that I have taken
    that I wish were taken in RAW. I use Photoshop (elements 3) on almost
    all of the pictures I take and find that there is much more control with
    RAW. I like to take panoramas, but stick to JPG because RAW takes too
    long, particularly when people are present.

    --
    -Ernie-

    "There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
    suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

    Have you done your backup today?
    Ernie Klein, Feb 6, 2006
    #4
  5. Ernie Klein

    Ernie Klein Guest

    In article <>,
    Alfred Molon <> wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >
    > > How do other 8080 owners handle this and is there any workaround?

    >
    > No workaround, with the 8080 you have to wait 12 seconds if you shoot
    > RAW. An option would be to set the camera to Hi mode and shoot a
    > sequence of four (or five?) RAWs, to capture something moving fast, but
    > then you cannot use the camera for about one minute.


    I have tried that. Shooting my grandson coming at me on a dirt bike
    track at about 50MPH. Got a great shot out of about 5, but he went all
    the way around the track before the camera was ready again.

    >
    > On the other hand the 8080 has a *great* lens...


    No argument there -- that's the main reason I settled on that camera
    when I was shopping.

    --
    -Ernie-

    "There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
    suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

    Have you done your backup today?
    Ernie Klein, Feb 6, 2006
    #5
  6. Is there no buffer? I shoot the E-20 and get to take 4 shots before it has
    to save....and I don't have to save all of them before I have to shoot
    again. I hate the wait but have learned to live with it.

    --
    Thanks,
    Gene Palmiter
    (visit my photo gallery at http://palmiter.dotphoto.com)
    freebridge design group

    "Ernie Klein" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > "Pat" <> wrote:
    >
    >> If you are "rather new to digital photography" or if you are also
    >> "rather new to photography".

    >
    > Not new to photography, but not a serious professional at all.
    >
    >> If you are a serious photography who is switching to digital, there may
    >> be some advantages to shooting in RAW and lots of people in this group
    >> will expound on that.
    >>

    > I know about the advantages of RAW, my question is about the slow frame
    > to frame speed of the 8080 and if there are any workarounds.
    >
    >> However, if you are rather new to photography and still learning the
    >> craft (and mostly taking snapshots as opposed to pictures intended for
    >> serious display), then you are probably just as well suited shooting in
    >> the largest of your jpg modes.
    >>
    >> RAW will give you more control, no doubt, but many people don't need
    >> that.
    >>
    >> Here's my thinking. If you are comfortable using Photoshop or any
    >> other editing program, then consider RAW. If you are just learning to
    >> use a program (and the camera), stick to jpg. When you discover the
    >> limits of jpg, then you will decide to change all by yourself. Until
    >> then, jpg will do everything you want it to and get you the second
    >> exposure.

    >
    > For the most part I agree, but there are some pictures that I have taken
    > that I wish were taken in RAW. I use Photoshop (elements 3) on almost
    > all of the pictures I take and find that there is much more control with
    > RAW. I like to take panoramas, but stick to JPG because RAW takes too
    > long, particularly when people are present.
    >
    > --
    > -Ernie-
    >
    > "There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
    > suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."
    >
    > Have you done your backup today?
    Gene Palmiter, Feb 6, 2006
    #6
  7. Ernie Klein

    Pat Guest

    I don't think there are any workarounds, short of making sure you have
    the fastest possible media card. That can make a difference.

    Otherwise, maybe you should shoot jpg for people and switch over to RAW
    for panorama where you things are happening as quickly.
    Pat, Feb 6, 2006
    #7
  8. Ernie Klein

    ASAAR Guest

    On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:18:02 GMT, Ernie Klein wrote:

    >> No workaround, with the 8080 you have to wait 12 seconds if you shoot
    >> RAW. An option would be to set the camera to Hi mode and shoot a
    >> sequence of four (or five?) RAWs, to capture something moving fast, but
    >> then you cannot use the camera for about one minute.

    >
    > I have tried that. Shooting my grandson coming at me on a dirt bike
    > track at about 50MPH. Got a great shot out of about 5, but he went all
    > the way around the track before the camera was ready again.


    Don't you know that for those kinds of shots you need what's known
    in the industry as a "kiddie-cam"? :) Although I don't shoot RAW
    I just timed taking a couple dozen shots with my Fuji S5100 and the
    delay between shots was 3.5 seconds, in just barely adequate light,
    which might have slowed down focusing a bit. I wouldn't be
    surprised if the newer Canon A610 was faster. Of course neither
    will produce photos of the quality that the C-8080 can attain, but
    if you limit the prints to 8" x 10" or slightly larger, you don't
    have to use the much bigger and heavier C-8080.


    >>> How do other 8080 owners handle this and is there any workaround?


    It's a camera limitation, and the usual workaround starts by
    examining DSLR spec's. :)
    ASAAR, Feb 6, 2006
    #8
  9. Ernie Klein

    Ernie Klein Guest

    In article <JkOFf.3101$_I4.2939@trndny02>,
    "Gene Palmiter" <> wrote:

    > Is there no buffer? I shoot the E-20 and get to take 4 shots before it has
    > to save....and I don't have to save all of them before I have to shoot
    > again. I hate the wait but have learned to live with it.
    >

    Actually, yes, there does appear to be a buffer that will hold (up) to 5
    RAW images, *if* you shoot in the sequence mode. In fact, that
    capability is what prompted my question about a possible workaround for
    faster shooting. If the camera is capable of buffering 5 RAW images
    when *it* is triggering the shutter, why can't it also buffer 5 images
    when *I* choose to trigger the shutter? I was hoping for some way to do
    that, but I guess they chose not to offer it even thought the camera
    seems to contain all the necessary components.

    --
    -Ernie-

    "There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
    suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

    Have you done your backup today?
    Ernie Klein, Feb 6, 2006
    #9
  10. Ernie Klein

    Steven Toney Guest

    does it really in the 8080

    I have one too


    "Pat" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I don't think there are any workarounds, short of making sure you have
    > the fastest possible media card. That can make a difference.
    >
    > Otherwise, maybe you should shoot jpg for people and switch over to RAW
    > for panorama where you things are happening as quickly.
    >
    Steven Toney, Feb 6, 2006
    #10
  11. Ernie Klein

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>,
    says...

    > Actually, yes, there does appear to be a buffer that will hold (up) to 5
    > RAW images, *if* you shoot in the sequence mode. In fact, that
    > capability is what prompted my question about a possible workaround for
    > faster shooting. If the camera is capable of buffering 5 RAW images
    > when *it* is triggering the shutter, why can't it also buffer 5 images
    > when *I* choose to trigger the shutter?


    Because Olympus likes to see you suffer...

    But seriously, I guess they did it to give an incentive to people to
    switch to their DSLRs. There is no technical or cost reason not to have
    a faster frame to frame rates in the 8080 (USB2 card readers cost a few
    Euros, just to make an example). It's a pure marketing choice, to avoid
    cannibalising the sales of their DSLRs.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E300, E330 and E500 forum at
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    Olympus E500 resource - http://myolympus.org/E500/
    Alfred Molon, Feb 6, 2006
    #11
  12. Ernie Klein

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > I don't think there are any workarounds, short of making sure you have
    > the fastest possible media card. That can make a difference.


    It's not the card. The write speed of the 8080 is internally limited to
    0.9MB/s, no matter how fast the card is.

    http://myolympus.org/8080/writetime/

    The person at Olympus who decided this should be castrated.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E300, E330 and E500 forum at
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    Olympus E500 resource - http://myolympus.org/E500/
    Alfred Molon, Feb 6, 2006
    #12
  13. Ernie Klein

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:42:05 GMT, Ernie Klein <>
    wrote:

    >In article <JkOFf.3101$_I4.2939@trndny02>,
    > "Gene Palmiter" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Is there no buffer? I shoot the E-20 and get to take 4 shots before it has
    >> to save....and I don't have to save all of them before I have to shoot
    >> again. I hate the wait but have learned to live with it.
    >>

    >Actually, yes, there does appear to be a buffer that will hold (up) to 5
    >RAW images, *if* you shoot in the sequence mode. In fact, that
    >capability is what prompted my question about a possible workaround for
    >faster shooting. If the camera is capable of buffering 5 RAW images
    >when *it* is triggering the shutter, why can't it also buffer 5 images
    >when *I* choose to trigger the shutter? I was hoping for some way to do
    >that, but I guess they chose not to offer it even thought the camera
    >seems to contain all the necessary components.


    OK, I don't have that camera.
    But, if you put it into the mode that lets you take more than one
    shot, what happens if you take one shot, wait a few seconds, then try
    to take another? Do you still need to wait for the first to be written
    to the card, or does the cameras let you put the next shot into the
    buffer?
    On my DRebel/300D, it lets me continue to shoot as it's writing the
    prior shot(s) to the card.
    If your 8080 will do that, then this will let you contihue to shoot
    until you do eventually fill the buffer.

    Otherwise, I can't think of a workaround, besides removing the card,
    and installing it into another camera that WILL let you do this.

    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
    Bill Funk, Feb 6, 2006
    #13
  14. Ernie Klein

    Steven Toney Guest

    this was my understanding as well

    the speed part at least - LOL



    "Alfred Molon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> I don't think there are any workarounds, short of making sure you have
    >> the fastest possible media card. That can make a difference.

    >
    > It's not the card. The write speed of the 8080 is internally limited to
    > 0.9MB/s, no matter how fast the card is.
    >
    > http://myolympus.org/8080/writetime/
    >
    > The person at Olympus who decided this should be castrated.
    > --
    >
    > Alfred Molon
    > ------------------------------
    > Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E300, E330 and E500 forum at
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    > Olympus E500 resource - http://myolympus.org/E500/
    Steven Toney, Feb 6, 2006
    #14
  15. Ernie Klein

    Steven Toney Guest

    I like my 8080 - I just accept that most of the time the HQ jpg snaps will
    do and on occasion I chose RAW it not a action \ speed issue

    but the lag on raw, or lag between shoot in general and some other issues is
    why I will get a DSLR in the reasonable future

    I was very close to getting a DLSR instead of the C8080 last spring, but
    decided to live with it's limits at leass than $500 rather than getting a
    20D at the time
    I now sure I will wait just a bit more as the full frame DSLR come down in
    price and get a bit more refined




    "Bill Funk" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:42:05 GMT, Ernie Klein <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>In article <JkOFf.3101$_I4.2939@trndny02>,
    >> "Gene Palmiter" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Is there no buffer? I shoot the E-20 and get to take 4 shots before it
    >>> has
    >>> to save....and I don't have to save all of them before I have to shoot
    >>> again. I hate the wait but have learned to live with it.
    >>>

    >>Actually, yes, there does appear to be a buffer that will hold (up) to 5
    >>RAW images, *if* you shoot in the sequence mode. In fact, that
    >>capability is what prompted my question about a possible workaround for
    >>faster shooting. If the camera is capable of buffering 5 RAW images
    >>when *it* is triggering the shutter, why can't it also buffer 5 images
    >>when *I* choose to trigger the shutter? I was hoping for some way to do
    >>that, but I guess they chose not to offer it even thought the camera
    >>seems to contain all the necessary components.

    >
    > OK, I don't have that camera.
    > But, if you put it into the mode that lets you take more than one
    > shot, what happens if you take one shot, wait a few seconds, then try
    > to take another? Do you still need to wait for the first to be written
    > to the card, or does the cameras let you put the next shot into the
    > buffer?
    > On my DRebel/300D, it lets me continue to shoot as it's writing the
    > prior shot(s) to the card.
    > If your 8080 will do that, then this will let you contihue to shoot
    > until you do eventually fill the buffer.
    >
    > Otherwise, I can't think of a workaround, besides removing the card,
    > and installing it into another camera that WILL let you do this.
    >
    > --
    > Bill Funk
    > replace "g" with "a"
    Steven Toney, Feb 6, 2006
    #15
  16. Ernie Klein

    Ernie Klein Guest

    In article <>,
    Bill Funk <> wrote:

    >
    >
    > OK, I don't have that camera.
    > But, if you put it into the mode that lets you take more than one
    > shot, what happens if you take one shot, wait a few seconds, then try
    > to take another? Do you still need to wait for the first to be written
    > to the card, or does the cameras let you put the next shot into the
    > buffer?
    > On my DRebel/300D, it lets me continue to shoot as it's writing the
    > prior shot(s) to the card.
    > If your 8080 will do that, then this will let you contihue to shoot
    > until you do eventually fill the buffer.


    No. In the sequence mode, the camera will continue to take pictures (up
    to 5) as long as the shutter release is held down. Once the shutter
    release is released, be it after 1 or more shots, the camera immediately
    starts storing the images and locks up until the write is complete.
    This is where I was hoping that there might be an option or other
    workaround to prevent that immediate storing and lockup to allow
    additional images to be buffered.

    > Otherwise, I can't think of a workaround, besides removing the card,
    > and installing it into another camera that WILL let you do this.


    Yea. That's what others have confirmed. It's too bad that such a nice
    (and expensive) camera can't write faster or be able to buffer when it
    seems like the camera is capable of doing so, only Olympus chose not to
    write the firmware to allow it. Guess I will have to plan my shots
    better for RAW and continue to use JPG for handheld panoramas when I
    don't have a tripod.

    --
    -Ernie-

    "There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
    suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

    Have you done your backup today?
    Ernie Klein, Feb 7, 2006
    #16
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