Question about Linux and NTFS

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by MarkH, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    I don't know much about Linux, but I am trying to learn.

    A couple of days ago I disconnected my normal drives from my server (P3-
    1GB, 512MB, 815 chipset, SMC NIC, Realtek NIC, Promise IDE controller) and
    connected a spare 40GB HDD and swapped the CD-ROM for a DVD-ROM. I
    installed SuSE 9.3 from a DVD and all went well. All my hardware was
    detected and worked OK. I setup the correct settings on the NIC with the
    ADSL router attached and got the internet working.

    This is for my home network, mainly for testing and learning.
    The roles I had in mind for this server are:
    Internet Proxy Server/firewall.
    DHCP Server.
    Mail Server.
    File Server.

    The problem came in when I connected my 160GB and 250GB data HDDs. I
    thought that SuSE would find the drives and mount them automatically,
    though it found them - it didn't mount them. I logged on as root and the
    drives mounted OK, but in read only mode. I googled for help and
    downloaded an application to let me mount NTFS with full read/write - but I
    had no luck. So I decided to leave my experimenting for the day and boot
    from my Win2003 Server HDD - only to find that both my 160GB and 250GB HDDs
    had been corrupted. I tried several tools to repair the NTFS partitions,
    but windows wouldn't see them as NTFS and I couldn't read them. None of
    the data is critical (otherwise I would have backups), but I don’t really
    want to try to replace the data (about 350GB) so I currently have Restorer
    2000 recovering the data - which it is doing quite well.

    My question is this:
    Is using Linux with NTFS drives just one of those things to avoid? Or is
    there a way of doing this without the risk?

    I could just get SuSE working for the other tasks, but not as a File
    Server. Then if I am happy with SuSE and want to commit to it I could
    setup my drives in the Linux format. Obviously this would involve copying
    the data to another drive then letting Linux wipe the partition and create
    a new one.

    At the moment though I still want to experiment and don't want to stuff up
    my Windows environment. There must be some Linux gurus here that have a
    lot more experience with this than I do. What can you guys tell me?

    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Jul 26, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. MarkH

    thing2 Guest

    MarkH wrote:
    > I don't know much about Linux, but I am trying to learn.
    >
    > A couple of days ago I disconnected my normal drives from my server (P3-
    > 1GB, 512MB, 815 chipset, SMC NIC, Realtek NIC, Promise IDE controller) and
    > connected a spare 40GB HDD and swapped the CD-ROM for a DVD-ROM. I
    > installed SuSE 9.3 from a DVD and all went well. All my hardware was
    > detected and worked OK. I setup the correct settings on the NIC with the
    > ADSL router attached and got the internet working.
    >
    > This is for my home network, mainly for testing and learning.
    > The roles I had in mind for this server are:
    > Internet Proxy Server/firewall.
    > DHCP Server.
    > Mail Server.
    > File Server.
    >
    > The problem came in when I connected my 160GB and 250GB data HDDs. I
    > thought that SuSE would find the drives and mount them automatically,
    > though it found them - it didn't mount them. I logged on as root and the
    > drives mounted OK, but in read only mode. I googled for help and
    > downloaded an application to let me mount NTFS with full read/write - but I
    > had no luck. So I decided to leave my experimenting for the day and boot
    > from my Win2003 Server HDD - only to find that both my 160GB and 250GB HDDs
    > had been corrupted. I tried several tools to repair the NTFS partitions,
    > but windows wouldn't see them as NTFS and I couldn't read them. None of
    > the data is critical (otherwise I would have backups), but I don’t really
    > want to try to replace the data (about 350GB) so I currently have Restorer
    > 2000 recovering the data - which it is doing quite well.
    >
    > My question is this:
    > Is using Linux with NTFS drives just one of those things to avoid?


    yes, like the plague. By default writing is experimental only and not
    supported, mounting read only is OK.

    Or is
    > there a way of doing this without the risk?


    Have a fat32 partition.

    > I could just get SuSE working for the other tasks, but not as a File
    > Server. Then if I am happy with SuSE and want to commit to it I could
    > setup my drives in the Linux format. Obviously this would involve copying
    > the data to another drive then letting Linux wipe the partition and create
    > a new one.
    >
    > At the moment though I still want to experiment and don't want to stuff up
    > my Windows environment. There must be some Linux gurus here that have a
    > lot more experience with this than I do. What can you guys tell me?


    I am not sure what you are asking....dual boot should not be an issue.
    you can mount the ntfs partition read only and copy it into Linux
    without a problem though permissions might need fiddling with.

    Certianly Linux and samba can be a good fileserver for a small office.

    regards

    thing
     
    thing2, Jul 27, 2005
    #2
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  3. MarkH

    Steven Ellis Guest

    thing2 wrote:
    > MarkH wrote:
    > > I don't know much about Linux, but I am trying to learn.
    > >
    > > A couple of days ago I disconnected my normal drives from my server (P3-
    > > 1GB, 512MB, 815 chipset, SMC NIC, Realtek NIC, Promise IDE controller) and
    > > connected a spare 40GB HDD and swapped the CD-ROM for a DVD-ROM. I
    > > installed SuSE 9.3 from a DVD and all went well. All my hardware was
    > > detected and worked OK. I setup the correct settings on the NIC with the
    > > ADSL router attached and got the internet working.
    > >
    > > This is for my home network, mainly for testing and learning.
    > > The roles I had in mind for this server are:
    > > Internet Proxy Server/firewall.
    > > DHCP Server.
    > > Mail Server.
    > > File Server.
    > >
    > > The problem came in when I connected my 160GB and 250GB data HDDs. I
    > > thought that SuSE would find the drives and mount them automatically,
    > > though it found them - it didn't mount them. I logged on as root and the
    > > drives mounted OK, but in read only mode. I googled for help and
    > > downloaded an application to let me mount NTFS with full read/write - but I
    > > had no luck. So I decided to leave my experimenting for the day and boot
    > > from my Win2003 Server HDD - only to find that both my 160GB and 250GB HDDs
    > > had been corrupted. I tried several tools to repair the NTFS partitions,
    > > but windows wouldn't see them as NTFS and I couldn't read them. None of
    > > the data is critical (otherwise I would have backups), but I don't really
    > > want to try to replace the data (about 350GB) so I currently have Restorer
    > > 2000 recovering the data - which it is doing quite well.
    > >
    > > My question is this:
    > > Is using Linux with NTFS drives just one of those things to avoid?

    >
    > yes, like the plague. By default writing is experimental only and not
    > supported, mounting read only is OK.


    There is a driver call CAPTIVE that allows full NTFS rw active. It is
    actually a wine based wrapper around the original windows drivers and
    has shown to be totally stable.

    Give that a try. I know of people using it with Suse.

    Steve
     
    Steven Ellis, Jul 27, 2005
    #3
  4. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    "Steven Ellis" <> wrote in
    news::

    >> MarkH wrote:
    >> > The problem came in when I connected my 160GB and 250GB data HDDs.
    >> > I thought that SuSE would find the drives and mount them
    >> > automatically, though it found them - it didn't mount them. I
    >> > logged on as root and the drives mounted OK, but in read only mode.
    >> > I googled for help and downloaded an application to let me mount
    >> > NTFS with full read/write - but I had no luck.

    >
    > There is a driver call CAPTIVE that allows full NTFS rw active. It is
    > actually a wine based wrapper around the original windows drivers and
    > has shown to be totally stable. I wonder if there is a way to use the

    drivers from NTFS4DOS instead of the original windows drivers.

    Yeah that was the app! I loaded Captive, but it didn't work. I don't know
    if it was because I was using Win2003 server on the other drive or not, but
    I got nowhere.

    Maybe I would be better off getting the SuSE working OK for everything I
    need and letting SuSE create the partitions on my HDDs. I only need NTFS
    for as long as I want to use Win2003 Server on that PC. Once I have Linux
    doing everything that I need from this PC then I can scrap Win2003
    completely.

    The next trick is getting Squid working to share my internet connection.

    I might temporarily get my other 2 PCs to run the HDDs and share the files.
    I definitely wont use my main drives for experimenting again, I'll take one
    of my old 40GB HDDs formatted with NTFS and experiment with that on SuSE.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Jul 27, 2005
    #4
  5. MarkH

    Robert Cooze Guest

    MarkH wrote:
    > I don't know much about Linux, but I am trying to learn.
    >
    > A couple of days ago I disconnected my normal drives from my server (P3-
    > 1GB, 512MB, 815 chipset, SMC NIC, Realtek NIC, Promise IDE controller) and
    > connected a spare 40GB HDD and swapped the CD-ROM for a DVD-ROM. I
    > installed SuSE 9.3 from a DVD and all went well. All my hardware was
    > detected and worked OK. I setup the correct settings on the NIC with the
    > ADSL router attached and got the internet working.
    >
    > This is for my home network, mainly for testing and learning.
    > The roles I had in mind for this server are:
    > Internet Proxy Server/firewall.
    > DHCP Server.
    > Mail Server.
    > File Server.
    >
    > The problem came in when I connected my 160GB and 250GB data HDDs. I
    > thought that SuSE would find the drives and mount them automatically,
    > though it found them - it didn't mount them. I logged on as root and the
    > drives mounted OK, but in read only mode. I googled for help and
    > downloaded an application to let me mount NTFS with full read/write - but I
    > had no luck. So I decided to leave my experimenting for the day and boot
    > from my Win2003 Server HDD - only to find that both my 160GB and 250GB HDDs
    > had been corrupted. I tried several tools to repair the NTFS partitions,
    > but windows wouldn't see them as NTFS and I couldn't read them. None of
    > the data is critical (otherwise I would have backups), but I don’t really
    > want to try to replace the data (about 350GB) so I currently have Restorer
    > 2000 recovering the data - which it is doing quite well.
    >
    > My question is this:
    > Is using Linux with NTFS drives just one of those things to avoid? Or is
    > there a way of doing this without the risk?
    >
    > I could just get SuSE working for the other tasks, but not as a File
    > Server. Then if I am happy with SuSE and want to commit to it I could
    > setup my drives in the Linux format. Obviously this would involve copying
    > the data to another drive then letting Linux wipe the partition and create
    > a new one.
    >
    > At the moment though I still want to experiment and don't want to stuff up
    > my Windows environment. There must be some Linux gurus here that have a
    > lot more experience with this than I do. What can you guys tell me?
    >

    From what I have red and seen Linux will read NTFS ok but could be
    disastrious writing to NTFS,

    In my Slackware system Only root has access at any stage to NTFS still
    looking at the permissions :(

    Somew people say full Read Wrte is Possibull I am in the don't know camp.

    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    Robert Cooze, Jul 27, 2005
    #5
  6. MarkH

    Rob J Guest

    On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:46:49 GMT, MarkH <> wrote:

    >My question is this:
    >Is using Linux with NTFS drives just one of those things to avoid? Or is
    >there a way of doing this without the risk?


    YES and NO

    NTFS is not publically documented. Anyone trying to write their own
    driver is flying blind, unless they use the NT DLLs.
     
    Rob J, Jul 27, 2005
    #6
  7. MarkH

    Harry Guest

    Rob J wrote:

    > On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:46:49 GMT, MarkH <> wrote:
    >
    >>My question is this:
    >>Is using Linux with NTFS drives just one of those things to avoid? Or is
    >>there a way of doing this without the risk?

    >
    > YES and NO
    >
    > NTFS is not publically documented. Anyone trying to write their own
    > driver is flying blind, unless they use the NT DLLs.


    It is documented. Every time an NTFS partition gets written to
    it leaves plenty of evidence of what is going on.
    So I wouldn't call it "flying blind".

    Reverse-engineering a filesystem is fairly simple, especially if
    you have an understanding of Files-11, RSX, FAT, etc.
    MS product are usually the easiest because MS tends to steal their
    ideas from other well documented systems.
     
    Harry, Jul 28, 2005
    #7
  8. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    Harry <> wrote in
    news::

    > Rob J wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:46:49 GMT, MarkH <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>My question is this:
    >>>Is using Linux with NTFS drives just one of those things to avoid?
    >>>Or is there a way of doing this without the risk?

    >>
    >> YES and NO
    >>
    >> NTFS is not publically documented. Anyone trying to write their own
    >> driver is flying blind, unless they use the NT DLLs.

    >
    > It is documented. Every time an NTFS partition gets written to
    > it leaves plenty of evidence of what is going on.
    > So I wouldn't call it "flying blind".
    >
    > Reverse-engineering a filesystem is fairly simple, especially if
    > you have an understanding of Files-11, RSX, FAT, etc.
    > MS product are usually the easiest because MS tends to steal their
    > ideas from other well documented systems.


    Well if this is true then I can only guess that the reason that there is
    not full NTFS support automatically installed with all Linux distros is
    that reverse-engineering the necessary parts and implementing them would
    leave the software authors at risk of a lawsuit from MS for breach of
    copyright or something.

    I have temporarily solved the problem by throwing money at it - I have
    bought a new 400GB SATA drive for my main PC which gives me room to copy
    all data off my 160GB and 250GB drives, so I can reformat them with Linux
    and copy the data back. I will probably go this way instead of wasting too
    much time getting NTFS working with Linux. However, if I come across an
    easier and more reliable way of getting NTFS to work with Linux, I may
    experiment a little with an old 40GB NTFS drive. I really would like to be
    able to connect an external USB2 HDD enclosure and copy data to and from an
    NTFS disk - but at this stage I can do that with my WinXP PC.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Jul 28, 2005
    #8
  9. MarkH

    thing2 Guest

    thing2, Jul 28, 2005
    #9
  10. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    Update: Wasn't Linux that borked my NTFS partitions (was Question about Linux and NTFS)

    MarkH <> wrote in
    news:dbyFe.663205$:

    > I don't know much about Linux, but I am trying to learn.
    >
    > A couple of days ago I disconnected my normal drives from my server
    > (P3- 1GB, 512MB, 815 chipset, SMC NIC, Realtek NIC, Promise IDE
    > controller) and connected a spare 40GB HDD and swapped the CD-ROM for
    > a DVD-ROM. I installed SuSE 9.3 from a DVD and all went well. All my
    > hardware was detected and worked OK. I setup the correct settings on
    > the NIC with the ADSL router attached and got the internet working.
    >
    > The problem came in when I connected my 160GB and 250GB data HDDs. I
    > thought that SuSE would find the drives and mount them automatically,
    > though it found them - it didn't mount them. I logged on as root and
    > the drives mounted OK, but in read only mode. I googled for help and
    > downloaded an application to let me mount NTFS with full read/write -
    > but I had no luck. So I decided to leave my experimenting for the day
    > and boot from my Win2003 Server HDD - only to find that both my 160GB
    > and 250GB HDDs had been corrupted. I tried several tools to repair
    > the NTFS partitions, but windows wouldn't see them as NTFS and I
    > couldn't read them. None of the data is critical (otherwise I would
    > have backups), but I don’t really want to try to replace the data
    > (about 350GB) so I currently have Restorer 2000 recovering the data -
    > which it is doing quite well.


    Update:
    All data was recovered and I deleted and recreated the partitions, then
    I copied the data back. This was done with the 160GB in the original
    machine, while a different machine worked on the 250GB. I then returned
    the 250GB to the original machine and learned something important: The
    Linux was not to blame for the corruption after all. It was the Promise
    IDE controller which I bought several years ago - apparently just
    booting to Windows with a drive >128GB connected is enough to stuff up
    the NTFS partition on that drive. Now I am recovering the data again
    from the 250GB, but the 160GB was connected to the M/board IDE and is
    OK. Oh well, now I know the cause and how to avoid a future problem.

    So the next step is to carefully test the Linux setup and get the NTFS
    drives to work OK with full read/write (using a test 40GB initially), I
    will retry with captive and see if I can find out which WinXP files it
    wants so that I can copy them to the main SuSE drive.


    Note:
    Luckily I don't always have to learn things like this the hard way. But
    without the occasional mistake I would probably get too full of myself,
    I guess I am only 'almost' perfect. :)



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Jul 28, 2005
    #10
  11. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    thing2 <> wrote in news:4lbmr2-4rb.ln1
    @news.vuw.ac.nz:

    > MarkH wrote:
    >
    >> The next trick is getting Squid working to share my internet connection.

    >
    > the squid.conf looks daunting but its not to bad.
    >
    > http://www.thing.dyndns.org/debian/squid.htm


    Thanks.

    Damn, when you are used to one of the easiest to setup proxies (Ositis
    Winproxy) this looks so complex. Someone needs to make some sort of GUI
    configuration front end for Squid!

    My setup is fairly simple:
    NIC1 (192.168.1.2) connects to ADSL router (192.168.1.1)
    NIC2 (192.168.0.1) connects to my LAN

    My main requirements are to proxy the WWW, FTP and NNTP protocols on the
    standard ports.

    Secondarily my flatmate likes to connect to bit torrent.

    On Winproxy all you do is install the program and identify which connection
    is the LAN (192.168.0.0) and voila - working proxy!

    On Squid I will have to invest some time and effort - it actually works out
    dearer to have a free program like Squid IF I were to consider the value of
    my time at my usual charge out fee. Probably many times dearer!
    However: If I consider learning Squid to be valuable training then I could
    say that I am getting my training very cheap.

    I think that today for someone wanting to learn Linux it is well worth
    installing and setting up Linux. But for someone not wanting to learn
    Linux, that just wants to use a computer it is probably easier to just use
    the Windows XP that comes with the computer. Personally, I think that over
    the next 2 or 3 years there will be a change and the new easier to use
    versions of Linux will gain significant ground over Windows. In fact, as
    more of us 'techies' learn Linux and can install and setup a machine for
    someone, it will become easier for the average user to get a Linux PC and
    use it for whatever they want.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Jul 28, 2005
    #11
  12. MarkH

    shannon Guest

    MarkH wrote:
    > thing2 <> wrote in news:4lbmr2-4rb.ln1
    > @news.vuw.ac.nz:
    >
    >
    >>MarkH wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>The next trick is getting Squid working to share my internet connection.

    >>
    >>the squid.conf looks daunting but its not to bad.
    >>
    >>http://www.thing.dyndns.org/debian/squid.htm

    >
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Damn, when you are used to one of the easiest to setup proxies (Ositis
    > Winproxy) this looks so complex. Someone needs to make some sort of GUI
    > configuration front end for Squid!


    Squid front ends
    http://www.webmin.com/download/modules/squid.wbm.gz
    http://www.gwolf.cx/soft/wpm/

    You may not need squid caching though, just port forwarding.
    There are several firewall gui packages that act as front end
    configurators for the built in linux kernel port forwarding.
    Firestarter
    http://www.fs-security.com/
    fwbuilder
    http://www.fwbuilder.org/
    turtle
    http://turtlefirewall.sourceforge.net/screenshots.en.html
    Commonly included as packages in various distros


    >
    > My setup is fairly simple:
    > NIC1 (192.168.1.2) connects to ADSL router (192.168.1.1)
    > NIC2 (192.168.0.1) connects to my LAN
    >
    > My main requirements are to proxy the WWW, FTP and NNTP protocols on the
    > standard ports.
    >
    > Secondarily my flatmate likes to connect to bit torrent.
    >
    > On Winproxy all you do is install the program and identify which connection
    > is the LAN (192.168.0.0) and voila - working proxy!
    >
    > On Squid I will have to invest some time and effort - it actually works out
    > dearer to have a free program like Squid IF I were to consider the value of
    > my time at my usual charge out fee. Probably many times dearer!
    > However: If I consider learning Squid to be valuable training then I could
    > say that I am getting my training very cheap.
    >
    > I think that today for someone wanting to learn Linux it is well worth
    > installing and setting up Linux. But for someone not wanting to learn
    > Linux, that just wants to use a computer it is probably easier to just use
    > the Windows XP that comes with the computer. Personally, I think that over
    > the next 2 or 3 years there will be a change and the new easier to use
    > versions of Linux will gain significant ground over Windows. In fact, as
    > more of us 'techies' learn Linux and can install and setup a machine for
    > someone, it will become easier for the average user to get a Linux PC and
    > use it for whatever they want.
    >
    >
    >
     
    shannon, Jul 29, 2005
    #12
  13. Re: Update: Wasn't Linux that borked my NTFS partitions (was Question about Linux and NTFS)

    In article <qHcGe.760835$>,
    MarkH <> wrote:

    >Luckily I don't always have to learn things like this the hard way. But
    >without the occasional mistake I would probably get too full of myself,
    >I guess I am only 'almost' perfect. :)


    Let's just say that, with a good backup regime, the cost of making
    mistakes goes down, so you're more willing to risk them. :)
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Jul 29, 2005
    #13
  14. Re: Update: Wasn't Linux that borked my NTFS partitions (was Question about Linux and NTFS)

    On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:08:22 GMT, MarkH <> wrote:

    >MarkH <> wrote in
    >news:dbyFe.663205$:
    >
    >> I don't know much about Linux, but I am trying to learn.
    >>
    >> A couple of days ago I disconnected my normal drives from my server
    >> (P3- 1GB, 512MB, 815 chipset, SMC NIC, Realtek NIC, Promise IDE
    >> controller) and connected a spare 40GB HDD and swapped the CD-ROM for
    >> a DVD-ROM. I installed SuSE 9.3 from a DVD and all went well. All my
    >> hardware was detected and worked OK. I setup the correct settings on
    >> the NIC with the ADSL router attached and got the internet working.
    >>
    >> The problem came in when I connected my 160GB and 250GB data HDDs. I
    >> thought that SuSE would find the drives and mount them automatically,
    >> though it found them - it didn't mount them. I logged on as root and
    >> the drives mounted OK, but in read only mode. I googled for help and
    >> downloaded an application to let me mount NTFS with full read/write -
    >> but I had no luck. So I decided to leave my experimenting for the day
    >> and boot from my Win2003 Server HDD - only to find that both my 160GB
    >> and 250GB HDDs had been corrupted. I tried several tools to repair
    >> the NTFS partitions, but windows wouldn't see them as NTFS and I
    >> couldn't read them. None of the data is critical (otherwise I would
    >> have backups), but I don’t really want to try to replace the data
    >> (about 350GB) so I currently have Restorer 2000 recovering the data -
    >> which it is doing quite well.

    >
    >Update:
    >All data was recovered and I deleted and recreated the partitions, then
    >I copied the data back. This was done with the 160GB in the original
    >machine, while a different machine worked on the 250GB. I then returned
    >the 250GB to the original machine and learned something important: The
    >Linux was not to blame for the corruption after all. It was the Promise
    >IDE controller which I bought several years ago - apparently just
    >booting to Windows with a drive >128GB connected is enough to stuff up
    >the NTFS partition on that drive. Now I am recovering the data again
    >from the 250GB, but the 160GB was connected to the M/board IDE and is
    >OK. Oh well, now I know the cause and how to avoid a future problem.
    >
    >So the next step is to carefully test the Linux setup and get the NTFS
    >drives to work OK with full read/write (using a test 40GB initially), I
    >will retry with captive and see if I can find out which WinXP files it
    >wants so that I can copy them to the main SuSE drive.


    No no bullshit
    You are folling yourself if you think any third party product that
    doesn't use the Windows NTFS dlls can give you reliable writing
    capability
     
    FreedomChooser, Jul 30, 2005
    #14
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