Question about Firmware Updates

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Not4wood, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. Not4wood

    Not4wood Guest

    Evening all,

    I have noticed mention of Firmware Updates for the DSLR's namely the Canon
    Rebel XTI. If a Rebel XTI or Nikon D80 is purchased do they automatically
    come with the latest updates to the Firmware or are we supposed to check and
    try to update them anyway?

    I dont presently have a DSLR but will purchase one very soon and I am
    starting to wonder how I can make sure I have the latest updates in the
    camera when I make my purchase? Also, does the Nikon D80 have an update as
    well?

    I'm talking about the regular programming from the manufacturer and not any
    add-ons that are around.
    I haven't made my final decision as to what I'm getting till I have the
    camera's in my hand and see how they feel and what I should look for in
    advance.
    --
    Thnx in advance.

    Mark
    Not4wood
     
    Not4wood, Nov 3, 2007
    #1
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  2. Not4wood

    Pat Guest

    On Nov 2, 9:18 pm, "Not4wood" <no_mgottes@spam_verizon.net> wrote:
    > Evening all,
    >
    > I have noticed mention of Firmware Updates for the DSLR's namely the Canon
    > Rebel XTI. If a Rebel XTI or Nikon D80 is purchased do they automatically
    > come with the latest updates to the Firmware or are we supposed to check and
    > try to update them anyway?
    >
    > I dont presently have a DSLR but will purchase one very soon and I am
    > starting to wonder how I can make sure I have the latest updates in the
    > camera when I make my purchase? Also, does the Nikon D80 have an update as
    > well?
    >
    > I'm talking about the regular programming from the manufacturer and not any
    > add-ons that are around.
    > I haven't made my final decision as to what I'm getting till I have the
    > camera's in my hand and see how they feel and what I should look for in
    > advance.
    > --
    > Thnx in advance.
    >
    > Mark
    > Not4wood


    To the best of my knowledge, the cameras come with the latest firmware
    available at the time of manufacturing. If there are updates after
    that, you can install them but they usually only correct bugs.

    Updating is pretty easy, at least on my Canons. You download the
    update to a memory card (through your card reader). Then you put in
    the card and turn on the camera. That's it. NBD.
     
    Pat, Nov 3, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Not4wood

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 01:18:52 GMT, "Not4wood" <no_mgottes@spam_verizon.net>
    wrote:
    : Evening all,
    :
    : I have noticed mention of Firmware Updates for the DSLR's namely the Canon
    : Rebel XTI. If a Rebel XTI or Nikon D80 is purchased do they automatically
    : come with the latest updates to the Firmware or are we supposed to check and
    : try to update them anyway?
    :
    : I dont presently have a DSLR but will purchase one very soon and I am
    : starting to wonder how I can make sure I have the latest updates in the
    : camera when I make my purchase? Also, does the Nikon D80 have an update as
    : well?
    :
    : I'm talking about the regular programming from the manufacturer and not any
    : add-ons that are around.
    : I haven't made my final decision as to what I'm getting till I have the
    : camera's in my hand and see how they feel and what I should look for in
    : advance.

    If you buy it in person, turn it on and look at the menu. The latest firmware
    for the XTi is 1.1.1.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Nov 3, 2007
    #3
  4. Not4wood

    ray Guest

    On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 01:18:52 +0000, Not4wood wrote:

    > Evening all,
    >
    > I have noticed mention of Firmware Updates for the DSLR's namely the Canon
    > Rebel XTI. If a Rebel XTI or Nikon D80 is purchased do they automatically
    > come with the latest updates to the Firmware or are we supposed to check and
    > try to update them anyway?


    That would depend on how long they were in the retail chain - no one on
    that end is going to check to see if it's the latest version - I'm sure it
    was given the latest version available when it came off the line - it's
    ultimately up to you to check.

    >
    > I dont presently have a DSLR but will purchase one very soon and I am
    > starting to wonder how I can make sure I have the latest updates in the
    > camera when I make my purchase? Also, does the Nikon D80 have an update as
    > well?


    Not just dslrs either, all digital cameras. It is really not rocket
    science to update one, what are you afraid of? If it is that big of a deal
    for you, check the date of the last update and try to get a camera
    manufactured after that.

    >
    > I'm talking about the regular programming from the manufacturer and not any
    > add-ons that are around.
    > I haven't made my final decision as to what I'm getting till I have the
    > camera's in my hand and see how they feel and what I should look for in
    > advance.
     
    ray, Nov 3, 2007
    #4
  5. ray wrote:
    []
    > Not just dslrs either, all digital cameras. It is really not rocket
    > science to update one, what are you afraid of? If it is that big of a
    > deal for you, check the date of the last update and try to get a
    > camera manufactured after that.


    You're right - no big deal - but if you haven't done one before the
    warnings about the camera not working if the update fails (loosing power
    half way through, for example), may well put you off. Probably more than
    half the digital cameras I own have been updated, and without issue.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 3, 2007
    #5
  6. Not4wood

    Not4wood Guest

    Thanks all. Seems the puter is not the only one that has to have drivers
    updated. Looks to me that some bug needed fixing, but are these updates
    also available for other things as well or is it just to fix a bug?

    What I'm trying to ask is are these updates used to keep making advances in
    the programming of the camera like we do to the computer when we update the
    video or sound drivers and so on?

    So, the updated fix is now on the Memory Card and everytime the Camera is
    turned on this update will now be loaded into the camera. Interesting, and
    if there are any improvements into the latest update but not by the
    Manufacturer we also do it the same way? So how come I dont see that many
    little patches available like we do for everything else in Computer Land?

    Not4wood




    "David J Taylor" <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk>
    wrote in message news:zHUWi.41461$...
    > ray wrote:
    > []
    >> Not just dslrs either, all digital cameras. It is really not rocket
    >> science to update one, what are you afraid of? If it is that big of a
    >> deal for you, check the date of the last update and try to get a
    >> camera manufactured after that.

    >
    > You're right - no big deal - but if you haven't done one before the
    > warnings about the camera not working if the update fails (loosing power
    > half way through, for example), may well put you off. Probably more than
    > half the digital cameras I own have been updated, and without issue.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David
    >
     
    Not4wood, Nov 3, 2007
    #6
  7. Not4wood wrote:
    > Thanks all. Seems the puter is not the only one that has to have
    > drivers updated. Looks to me that some bug needed fixing, but are
    > these updates also available for other things as well or is it just
    > to fix a bug?


    Usually just bug fixes. Most manufacturers would prefer to sell you a new
    model to get new features! There are some 3rd party add-ons today as
    well, but not strictly firmware updates. I've not used these.

    > What I'm trying to ask is are these updates used to keep making
    > advances in the programming of the camera like we do to the computer
    > when we update the video or sound drivers and so on?


    Some advances, mostly bug-fixes.

    > So, the updated fix is now on the Memory Card and everytime the
    > Camera is turned on this update will now be loaded into the camera.


    No. There is usually a special switch-on sequence which causes the
    firmware in the camera to be reprogrammed with the updated firmware from
    the card.

    > Interesting, and if there are any improvements into the latest update
    > but not by the Manufacturer we also do it the same way? So how come
    > I dont see that many little patches available like we do for
    > everything else in Computer Land?
    > Not4wood


    Only a limited set of cameras allow dynamic updates, such as those used by
    the current 3rd party software. I recall there has been some 3rd party
    firmware updates in the past, which used the same blow-the-eprom mechanism
    as the office firmware updates.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 3, 2007
    #7
  8. Not4wood

    Shawn Hirn Guest

    In article <00QWi.59$lx.3@trndny05>,
    "Not4wood" <no_mgottes@spam_verizon.net> wrote:

    > Evening all,
    >
    > I have noticed mention of Firmware Updates for the DSLR's namely the Canon
    > Rebel XTI. If a Rebel XTI or Nikon D80 is purchased do they automatically
    > come with the latest updates to the Firmware or are we supposed to check and
    > try to update them anyway?


    No. It depends on when the camera was actually manufactured. Same with
    computers, by the way. If the camera was sent out of the factory before
    an update and sat on a store's shelf for a while, it is not going to
    have the update that occurred after it was produced.

    > I dont presently have a DSLR but will purchase one very soon and I am
    > starting to wonder how I can make sure I have the latest updates in the
    > camera when I make my purchase? Also, does the Nikon D80 have an update as
    > well?


    Honestly, its not worth worrying about. Installing updates is a simple
    process. Usually, you just download the update file to your computer,
    put it on a freshly formatted memory card, then insert the card into the
    camera and turn it on.
     
    Shawn Hirn, Nov 3, 2007
    #8
  9. Not4wood

    Shawn Hirn Guest

    In article <zHUWi.41461$>,
    "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:

    > ray wrote:
    > []
    > > Not just dslrs either, all digital cameras. It is really not rocket
    > > science to update one, what are you afraid of? If it is that big of a
    > > deal for you, check the date of the last update and try to get a
    > > camera manufactured after that.

    >
    > You're right - no big deal - but if you haven't done one before the
    > warnings about the camera not working if the update fails (loosing power
    > half way through, for example), may well put you off. Probably more than
    > half the digital cameras I own have been updated, and without issue.


    Just plug the camera in or make sure the battery is fully charged. Its
    really no big deal, but if you find the process troublesome, then buy
    your camera at a good local store and just ask them to update it for you.
     
    Shawn Hirn, Nov 3, 2007
    #9
  10. Not4wood

    Shawn Hirn Guest

    In article <ajYWi.2483$%n.1510@trndny07>,
    "Not4wood" <no_mgottes@spam_verizon.net> wrote:

    > Thanks all. Seems the puter is not the only one that has to have drivers
    > updated. Looks to me that some bug needed fixing, but are these updates
    > also available for other things as well or is it just to fix a bug?


    Go to Canon's web site and it will tell you exactly what each update
    does.
     
    Shawn Hirn, Nov 3, 2007
    #10
  11. Shawn Hirn wrote:
    > In article <zHUWi.41461$>,
    > "David J Taylor"
    > <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >> ray wrote:
    >> []
    >>> Not just dslrs either, all digital cameras. It is really not rocket
    >>> science to update one, what are you afraid of? If it is that big of
    >>> a deal for you, check the date of the last update and try to get a
    >>> camera manufactured after that.

    >>
    >> You're right - no big deal - but if you haven't done one before the
    >> warnings about the camera not working if the update fails (loosing
    >> power half way through, for example), may well put you off.
    >> Probably more than half the digital cameras I own have been updated,
    >> and without issue.

    >
    > Just plug the camera in or make sure the battery is fully charged. Its
    > really no big deal, but if you find the process troublesome, then buy
    > your camera at a good local store and just ask them to update it for
    > you.


    Shawn,

    I have no problems with the process at all. I was suggesting why it may
    appear daunting to those who have not actually done it.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 3, 2007
    #11
  12. Not4wood

    S. Purdue Guest

    On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:45:26 GMT, "Not4wood" <no_mgottes@spam_verizon.net>
    wrote:

    >Thanks all. Seems the puter is not the only one that has to have drivers
    >updated. Looks to me that some bug needed fixing, but are these updates
    >also available for other things as well or is it just to fix a bug?
    >
    >What I'm trying to ask is are these updates used to keep making advances in
    >the programming of the camera like we do to the computer when we update the
    >video or sound drivers and so on?
    >
    >So, the updated fix is now on the Memory Card and everytime the Camera is
    >turned on this update will now be loaded into the camera. Interesting, and
    >if there are any improvements into the latest update but not by the
    >Manufacturer we also do it the same way? So how come I dont see that many
    >little patches available like we do for everything else in Computer Land?
    >
    >Not4wood
    >
    >


    You fail to understand the business mindset and the foolishness of consumers.
    Updates are not often available unless it's something really drastic that needs
    repairing that should have been working in the first place. And camera models
    are often crippled BY THE MANUFACTURER so they can convince people to buy a more
    expensive design or next year's model. Notice how many companies that pride
    themselves on their DSLR products have removed RAW file capability from the less
    expensive P&S cameras. They don't want their customers finding out that the less
    expensive camera is every bit as good as their more expensive cash-cow DSLR
    line. Where they can then convince the purchaser to buy lenses that are marketed
    at 10 to 50 times the production cost. Not unlike printers that cost $70, but
    the ink cartridges cost $40-$50 each. They can make much more money by selling
    the colored water at an inflated price. Just as they can make much more money
    selling the cheap-to-make lenses for DSLRs at an inflated price. (It's already
    been proven many many times that P&S camera lenses are every bit as sharp, if
    not sharper, than DSLR lenses. There is no resolution benefit in owning any DSLR
    nor its overpriced lenses.)

    For firmware crippling example, see what people have done with some of the Canon
    P&S cameras using CHDK http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK

    http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_firmware_usage

    All of those capabilities were already built into these cameras. The CHDK
    programming doesn't even touch the original firmware, it only gives you some
    access to the firmware that Canon intentionally locked out. Canon crippled these
    cameras (all their cameras, including their DSLRs) from having all these
    features so everyone would be forced to buy next year's models or more expensive
    DSLR cameras (where they can make the huge money by selling the cheap glass that
    DSLRs require). CHDK only unlocked the features that Canon doesn't even allow on
    their DSLR designs, they're saving those "updates" to convince you to buy a new
    camera next year.

    _Any_ camera manufacturer could release a firmware update today that could
    surpass anything that CHDK can do, but they won't. Why? Because it cuts into
    their marketing scheme to extort even more out of their customer base. The word
    "customer" to them means "fool with money". And rightly so, because the majority
    of them are nothing but fools, they can't even see what is being done to them.
    Camera companies will add one feature next year while removing three good
    features that were in last year's cameras. Each time they will add something and
    take even more away. It's all just part of the game they play to trick fools
    into parting with their money. Only you will be able to judge if losing 3 needed
    features from last year's model will be worth that 1 "improvement" in next
    year's model.

    Sure, they could offer a free download to give you the best camera ever made,
    this very day. One single firmware update for FREE that would turn your camera
    into the last camera you will ever need. _Any_ camera company could do that
    today.

    Watch it never happen.

    Why would some camera company want you to have the best camera ever made? Then
    you wouldn't keep buying new ones or having them convincing you that you'll need
    some unnecessary overpriced cash-cow DSLR. Ever notice that you can never find
    all the features you need in just one camera? That is exactly how they want to
    keep it. CHDK is the first attempt I've seen to make this blatantly obvious to
    everyone, by unlocking the features in inexpensive P&S cameras that even their
    DSLRs don't have and will never have.

    No need for an updated firmware! They just have to show you next year's model
    and you'll stupidly buy it.

    You don't know much about CEO greed and consumer stupidity, do you.
     
    S. Purdue, Nov 3, 2007
    #12
  13. Not4wood

    ray Guest

    On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:45:26 +0000, Not4wood wrote:

    > Thanks all. Seems the puter is not the only one that has to have drivers
    > updated. Looks to me that some bug needed fixing, but are these updates
    > also available for other things as well or is it just to fix a bug?


    Sometimes they are not really bug fixes, at least according to my
    definition, but are there to make the camera function better - improved
    exposure algorithms, better white balance, etc. There are also third party
    firmware packages that sometimes increase functionality - I did one on my
    wife's Nikon Coolpix 2100 which added RAW and a higher quality jpeg.

    >
    > What I'm trying to ask is are these updates used to keep making advances in
    > the programming of the camera like we do to the computer when we update the
    > video or sound drivers and so on?
    >
    > So, the updated fix is now on the Memory Card and everytime the Camera is
    > turned on this update will now be loaded into the camera.


    You simply format the card and it disappears - only needs to be done once.

    > Interesting,
    > and if there are any improvements into the latest update but not by the
    > Manufacturer we also do it the same way? So how come I dont see that
    > many little patches available like we do for everything else in Computer
    > Land?


    Because the manufacturers are more interested in selling computers than
    making older ones perform better.


    >
    > Not4wood
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "David J Taylor"
    > <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote in
    > message news:zHUWi.41461$...
    >> ray wrote:
    >> []
    >>> Not just dslrs either, all digital cameras. It is really not rocket
    >>> science to update one, what are you afraid of? If it is that big of a
    >>> deal for you, check the date of the last update and try to get a
    >>> camera manufactured after that.

    >>
    >> You're right - no big deal - but if you haven't done one before the
    >> warnings about the camera not working if the update fails (loosing
    >> power half way through, for example), may well put you off. Probably
    >> more than half the digital cameras I own have been updated, and without
    >> issue.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> David
    >>
     
    ray, Nov 3, 2007
    #13
  14. Not4wood

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:08:27 -0400, Shawn Hirn <> wrote:
    : In article <00QWi.59$lx.3@trndny05>,
    : "Not4wood" <no_mgottes@spam_verizon.net> wrote:
    :
    : > Evening all,
    : >
    : > I have noticed mention of Firmware Updates for the DSLR's namely the Canon
    : > Rebel XTI. If a Rebel XTI or Nikon D80 is purchased do they automatically
    : > come with the latest updates to the Firmware or are we supposed to check and
    : > try to update them anyway?
    :
    : No. It depends on when the camera was actually manufactured. Same with
    : computers, by the way. If the camera was sent out of the factory before
    : an update and sat on a store's shelf for a while, it is not going to
    : have the update that occurred after it was produced.
    :
    : > I dont presently have a DSLR but will purchase one very soon and I am
    : > starting to wonder how I can make sure I have the latest updates in the
    : > camera when I make my purchase? Also, does the Nikon D80 have an update as
    : > well?
    :
    : Honestly, its not worth worrying about. Installing updates is a simple
    : process. Usually, you just download the update file to your computer,
    : put it on a freshly formatted memory card, then insert the card into the
    : camera and turn it on.

    OK, I've been watching you guys line up to assure the newbies how trivial it
    is to do a firmware update. I'm here to tell you that it isn't always so.

    Last spring I set out to update my wife's XTi. (I had done the same update to
    my own XTi a few weeks earlier with no problem.) I didn't have a card reader
    at the time, and Canon's direct (computer to camera) updating procedure is
    long and complex. As long as you do EXACTLY as the script says, you'll be OK;
    but if you deviate in the SLIGHTEST detail, you'l be in deep trouble. (To be
    fair, they warn you that that's the case.) I reached a point where an
    on-screen instruction said "Now do so-and-so", so I did, overlooking the fact
    that the script says that you must first click "OK" in the window displaying
    the instruction. Bypassing that "OK" made the update hang, and the camera
    could not be used thereafter. Every time it was turned on, it automatically
    tried, unsuccessfully, to complete the update. We finally had to send it to
    the Canon shop in New Jersey for repair. The Canon shop provided excellent
    service and fixed the camera under warranty without charge. But it was a major
    inconvenience for such a tiny mistake. I'd guess that very few inexperienced
    users would expect the update process to be quite as brittle as it was.

    Later I bought a card reader, and that does allow you to avoid the really
    dangerous parts of the update. I've since done three more updates, two to my
    camera and one to my wife's, without incident.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Nov 3, 2007
    #14
  15. "Not4wood" <no_mgottes@spam_verizon.net> wrote in message
    news:ajYWi.2483$%n.1510@trndny07...
    > Thanks all. Seems the puter is not the only one that has to have drivers
    > updated. Looks to me that some bug needed fixing, but are these updates
    > also available for other things as well or is it just to fix a bug?
    >
    > What I'm trying to ask is are these updates used to keep making advances
    > in the programming of the camera like we do to the computer when we update
    > the video or sound drivers and so on?


    Some updates are bug fixes. Some are expansions of the existing software.
    For example on my camera several upgrades added extended memory card
    compatability so that it would work with the newer high capacity cards that
    didn't exist when the camera was manufactured. So the upgrade may be a fix
    or something to make it work better than before.

    > So, the updated fix is now on the Memory Card and everytime the Camera is
    > turned on this update will now be loaded into the camera.


    Actually the update is stored in internal memory in the camera. So once the
    upgrade is moved from the memory card to the internal memory the upgrade can
    be erased from the memory card and you go on as before, with a (hopefully)
    better working camera.

    Randy
     
    Randy Berbaum, Nov 4, 2007
    #15
  16. Not4wood wrote:
    > So how come
    > I dont see that many little patches available like we do for
    > everything else in Computer Land?


    How often did you update the firmware(!) aka BIOS on your computer? Because
    that's about the level you are dealing with when updating the SW on a
    camera.

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Nov 4, 2007
    #16
  17. Not4wood

    Not4wood Guest

    Thanks to all for the Interesting discussions. But it would seem to me that
    any of us who are used to using the puter would be a normal routine to
    upgrade by the method shown and discussed.

    Since I had started this thread, when I wanted to go out and buy a camera.
    I actually went out and got one today. I went to the old camera store that
    I haven't been to in almost 20 or so years. Would you believe the same guys
    worked there?? Incredible, that they remembered me and also that they
    stayed friendly with my old bosses. Holy shitay, did I say twenty??? The
    years I worked for the Studio was from the mid '70's to 1980. WOW, thirty
    years ago, I was a kid of 22 working in the lab printing and doing weddings
    on the weekends in 1977.

    Any way, I went and purchased a Nikon D80 after holding and playing with the
    others that are the basics for most of the arguments in this newsgroup LOL.
    I also held an Olympus with just about the same functions but I didn't like
    the feel of any of them and I really hate to say it but I am including the
    Rebel XTI in this. I was extremely disappointed in how it felt in my hands.
    I was actually having the Rebel as the number 1 to check out, but after
    holding it I couldn't buy it and feel good about it. Very sad for me, but
    now I'm happy as a pig in shit with my new Nikon D80.

    Now if I can crawl out of bed really early tomorrow morning errrrr maybe in
    a few hours at least. I can go and take my first set of Sunrise shots.
    Will see..................

    Not4wood



    "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:08:27 -0400, Shawn Hirn <> wrote:
    > : In article <00QWi.59$lx.3@trndny05>,
    > : "Not4wood" <no_mgottes@spam_verizon.net> wrote:
    > :
    > : > Evening all,
    > : >
    > : > I have noticed mention of Firmware Updates for the DSLR's namely the
    > Canon
    > : > Rebel XTI. If a Rebel XTI or Nikon D80 is purchased do they
    > automatically
    > : > come with the latest updates to the Firmware or are we supposed to
    > check and
    > : > try to update them anyway?
    > :
    > : No. It depends on when the camera was actually manufactured. Same with
    > : computers, by the way. If the camera was sent out of the factory before
    > : an update and sat on a store's shelf for a while, it is not going to
    > : have the update that occurred after it was produced.
    > :
    > : > I dont presently have a DSLR but will purchase one very soon and I am
    > : > starting to wonder how I can make sure I have the latest updates in
    > the
    > : > camera when I make my purchase? Also, does the Nikon D80 have an
    > update as
    > : > well?
    > :
    > : Honestly, its not worth worrying about. Installing updates is a simple
    > : process. Usually, you just download the update file to your computer,
    > : put it on a freshly formatted memory card, then insert the card into the
    > : camera and turn it on.
    >
    > OK, I've been watching you guys line up to assure the newbies how trivial
    > it
    > is to do a firmware update. I'm here to tell you that it isn't always so.
    >
    > Last spring I set out to update my wife's XTi. (I had done the same update
    > to
    > my own XTi a few weeks earlier with no problem.) I didn't have a card
    > reader
    > at the time, and Canon's direct (computer to camera) updating procedure is
    > long and complex. As long as you do EXACTLY as the script says, you'll be
    > OK;
    > but if you deviate in the SLIGHTEST detail, you'l be in deep trouble. (To
    > be
    > fair, they warn you that that's the case.) I reached a point where an
    > on-screen instruction said "Now do so-and-so", so I did, overlooking the
    > fact
    > that the script says that you must first click "OK" in the window
    > displaying
    > the instruction. Bypassing that "OK" made the update hang, and the camera
    > could not be used thereafter. Every time it was turned on, it
    > automatically
    > tried, unsuccessfully, to complete the update. We finally had to send it
    > to
    > the Canon shop in New Jersey for repair. The Canon shop provided excellent
    > service and fixed the camera under warranty without charge. But it was a
    > major
    > inconvenience for such a tiny mistake. I'd guess that very few
    > inexperienced
    > users would expect the update process to be quite as brittle as it was.
    >
    > Later I bought a card reader, and that does allow you to avoid the really
    > dangerous parts of the update. I've since done three more updates, two to
    > my
    > camera and one to my wife's, without incident.
    >
    > Bob
     
    Not4wood, Nov 4, 2007
    #17
  18. Not4wood wrote:
    []
    > Any way, I went and purchased a Nikon D80 after holding and playing
    > with the others that are the basics for most of the arguments in this
    > newsgroup LOL. I also held an Olympus with just about the same
    > functions but I didn't like the feel of any of them and I really hate
    > to say it but I am including the Rebel XTI in this. I was extremely
    > disappointed in how it felt in my hands. I was actually having the
    > Rebel as the number 1 to check out, but after holding it I couldn't
    > buy it and feel good about it. Very sad for me, but now I'm happy as
    > a pig in shit with my new Nikon D80.


    I also compared the feel of the cameras before purchase - and as I didn't
    have nay Nikon or Canon lenses I had no preference. I was looking at the
    lower end, and the Nikon D40 won over the Canon for me as well.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 4, 2007
    #18
  19. Not4wood

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 09:22:05 GMT, "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:
    : Not4wood wrote:
    : []
    : > Any way, I went and purchased a Nikon D80 after holding and playing
    : > with the others that are the basics for most of the arguments in this
    : > newsgroup LOL. I also held an Olympus with just about the same
    : > functions but I didn't like the feel of any of them and I really hate
    : > to say it but I am including the Rebel XTI in this. I was extremely
    : > disappointed in how it felt in my hands. I was actually having the
    : > Rebel as the number 1 to check out, but after holding it I couldn't
    : > buy it and feel good about it. Very sad for me, but now I'm happy as
    : > a pig in shit with my new Nikon D80.
    :
    : I also compared the feel of the cameras before purchase - and as I didn't
    : have any Nikon or Canon lenses I had no preference. I was looking at the
    : lower end, and the Nikon D40 won over the Canon for me as well.

    Almost since the day it was released, the knock on the XTi has been that those
    with large hands don't like the feel of it. I have small hands, so I don't
    have the problem; my only complaint is that the two thumb buttons in the upper
    right-hand corner, whose functions are quite different, are too close
    together. It's OK, but it took some getting used to.

    One point on which most photographers seem to agree is that if the camera
    doesn't feel right when you hold it, you'll probably have trouble learning to
    use it well. If you think you might have a problem, trying it out before
    buying it is the only sensible thing to do.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Nov 4, 2007
    #19
  20. Robert Coe wrote:
    []
    > Almost since the day it was released, the knock on the XTi has been
    > that those with large hands don't like the feel of it. I have small
    > hands, so I don't have the problem; my only complaint is that the two
    > thumb buttons in the upper right-hand corner, whose functions are
    > quite different, are too close together. It's OK, but it took some
    > getting used to.


    Actually, Bob, I have small hands, and I still didn't like the Canon! I
    wouldn't mind something a little smaller than the Nikon D40.

    > One point on which most photographers seem to agree is that if the
    > camera doesn't feel right when you hold it, you'll probably have
    > trouble learning to use it well. If you think you might have a
    > problem, trying it out before buying it is the only sensible thing to
    > do.
    >
    > Bob


    That's why I try and suggest people get a camera from a shop where they
    can try it, rather than unseen from an Internet store. Try the camera
    while wearing gloves if you do a lot of outdoor winter photography!

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 4, 2007
    #20
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