Question about DSL connections by Telecom at your home

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Craig, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. Craig

    Craig Guest

    We are ready to leave dial-up behind and get a 2 Mbps DSL connection
    at home (not Xtra). I wonder if someone could answer for me the
    following questions regarding the Telecom connection aspects...

    1. Telecom will charge a standard $248 to visit our home to install
    and connect a splitter for the DSL connection. Is this something I
    could do myself - can I buy the splitter and install it next to the
    PC? - I have previously added extra phone extensions around the house
    so I have no difficulty with installing cables and jackpoints. $248
    does seems alot to pay, or does the technician do more - does he need
    to climb up the telephone pole, too, to make the connection? I know
    where the phone wire enters our house - into a junction box on the
    outside wall. Are there other companies, other than Telecom, who
    would do it more cheaply? (we are in Auckland).

    2. We already have seven phones around the house (as per my
    actions mentioned above!) so if I go down the "self-install" route I
    would need to spend about $70 on filters for the existing phones. Will
    this impact on the DSL speed? Does option 1 (above) give a better
    speed? I read that the $248 connection and wiring visit should be
    considered if there are five or more phones in the house, so maybe we
    have too many phones and have to get a splitter installed anyway ??
    Can anyone advise?

    Regards, Craig
     
    Craig, Jun 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. Craig

    Matty F Guest

    Craig wrote:

    > We are ready to leave dial-up behind and get a 2 Mbps DSL connection
    > at home (not Xtra). I wonder if someone could answer for me the
    > following questions regarding the Telecom connection aspects...
    >
    > 1. Telecom will charge a standard $248 to visit our home to install
    > and connect a splitter for the DSL connection. Is this something I
    > could do myself - can I buy the splitter and install it next to the
    > PC? - I have previously added extra phone extensions around the house
    > so I have no difficulty with installing cables and jackpoints. $248
    > does seems alot to pay, or does the technician do more - does he need
    > to climb up the telephone pole, too, to make the connection? I know
    > where the phone wire enters our house - into a junction box on the
    > outside wall. Are there other companies, other than Telecom, who
    > would do it more cheaply? (we are in Auckland).
    >
    > 2. We already have seven phones around the house (as per my
    > actions mentioned above!) so if I go down the "self-install" route I
    > would need to spend about $70 on filters for the existing phones. Will
    > this impact on the DSL speed? Does option 1 (above) give a better
    > speed? I read that the $248 connection and wiring visit should be
    > considered if there are five or more phones in the house, so maybe we
    > have too many phones and have to get a splitter installed anyway ??


    The cheapest way would be to put a filter between your master socket and
    the wires to other phone sockets, but leave an unfiltered wire to your
    computer where you have a splitter and another filter for a phone there.
    The filters have the usual phone plugs and sockets attached.
    I managed to use just the two filters that were free with the xtra pack.
    You can use as many ordinary phone splitters as you want, from a filter
    to your phones. You may want to turn off the ringing on some phones as
    there is a limit to the number allowable.

    There is an extension phone in my bedroom that I never bothered putting
    a filter on. I almost never use it but if I do, sometimes the modem
    reconnects.
     
    Matty F, Jun 29, 2005
    #2
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  3. Craig

    PAM. Guest

    > Craig wrote:
    >
    > > We are ready to leave dial-up behind and get a 2 Mbps DSL connection
    > > at home (not Xtra). I wonder if someone could answer for me the
    > > following questions regarding the Telecom connection aspects...
    > >
    > > 1. Telecom will charge a standard $248 to visit our home to install
    > > and connect a splitter for the DSL connection. Is this something I
    > > could do myself - can I buy the splitter and install it next to the
    > > PC? - I have previously added extra phone extensions around the house
    > > so I have no difficulty with installing cables and jackpoints. $248
    > > does seems alot to pay, or does the technician do more - does he need
    > > to climb up the telephone pole, too, to make the connection? I know
    > > where the phone wire enters our house - into a junction box on the
    > > outside wall. Are there other companies, other than Telecom, who
    > > would do it more cheaply? (we are in Auckland).


    I had this issue and decided to get the chap out. A technician phoned and he
    said all he did was check that there is a connection and plug in my splitter
    and leave.
    I said no thanks, I'll do it myself.
    You can do all this yourself. As for the DSL modem, it was pre-configured
    and connected up to the 'net itself once I'd put in all the cables from
    phone to splitter to modem to PC and the modem power cable. I didn't have to
    do a thing regarding setting up the modem, although I checked the firewalls
    after it had connected.
    To connect you up he also needs to turn something on at the exchange. No
    phone poles.

    PAM.
     
    PAM., Jun 29, 2005
    #3
  4. Craig

    Wombus Guest

    Craig wrote:
    > 1. Telecom will charge a standard $248 to visit our home to install
    > and connect a splitter for the DSL connection.


    I think you will find $149 the going rate for connection & home wiring
    (so called special)...
     
    Wombus, Jun 29, 2005
    #4
  5. In article <>,
    Craig <> wrote:

    >2. We already have seven phones around the house (as per my
    >actions mentioned above!) so if I go down the "self-install" route I
    >would need to spend about $70 on filters for the existing phones. Will
    >this impact on the DSL speed?


    I think the rule is that you're allowed up to put in up to four filters
    on separate phone extensions, beyond that you have to have a splitter
    installed to avoid the need for filters. Yes, there is bound to be
    impact on DSL speed, quality, reliability, that kind of thing.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 29, 2005
    #5
  6. Craig

    Mercury Guest

    There is a "5" unit RN or RAL limit. On the telepermit label there should be
    RN (or RAL) indication. EG RN = 0.5 or RN = 1. They are the numbers - add
    them up for the whole house and if over 5, you need to do something. A
    modern digital phone such as the panasonic here has RN=0.5 = max 10
    extensions :) Overloading the ringer is hopefully totally unrelated to ADSL,
    but who knows?

    See: http://www.telepermit.co.nz/About PTC.html for full details.

    I agree with the others. Get your own ADSL modem, & if you can install a
    master filter and do as MattyF said.

    For the connection in this house no one from telecom ever came out to the
    house and ADSL was up and running 100% before we had the key which was a
    real bletch...




    "Craig" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > We are ready to leave dial-up behind and get a 2 Mbps DSL connection
    > at home (not Xtra). I wonder if someone could answer for me the
    > following questions regarding the Telecom connection aspects...
    >
    > 1. Telecom will charge a standard $248 to visit our home to install
    > and connect a splitter for the DSL connection. Is this something I
    > could do myself - can I buy the splitter and install it next to the
    > PC? - I have previously added extra phone extensions around the house
    > so I have no difficulty with installing cables and jackpoints. $248
    > does seems alot to pay, or does the technician do more - does he need
    > to climb up the telephone pole, too, to make the connection? I know
    > where the phone wire enters our house - into a junction box on the
    > outside wall. Are there other companies, other than Telecom, who
    > would do it more cheaply? (we are in Auckland).
    >
    > 2. We already have seven phones around the house (as per my
    > actions mentioned above!) so if I go down the "self-install" route I
    > would need to spend about $70 on filters for the existing phones. Will
    > this impact on the DSL speed? Does option 1 (above) give a better
    > speed? I read that the $248 connection and wiring visit should be
    > considered if there are five or more phones in the house, so maybe we
    > have too many phones and have to get a splitter installed anyway ??
    > Can anyone advise?
    >
    > Regards, Craig
     
    Mercury, Jun 29, 2005
    #6
  7. In article <d9tu47$def$>, "Mercury" <>
    wrote:

    >There is a "5" unit RN or RAL limit. On the telepermit label there should be
    >RN (or RAL) indication. EG RN = 0.5 or RN = 1. They are the numbers - add
    >them up for the whole house and if over 5, you need to do something. A
    >modern digital phone such as the panasonic here has RN=0.5 = max 10
    >extensions :) Overloading the ringer is hopefully totally unrelated to ADSL,
    >but who knows?


    This is separate from the number of ADSL filters you're allowed to have.
    Remember that all those filters are in parallel as far as the ADSL
    signal frequencies are concerned, so the more of them you have, the more
    current drain there is at those frequencies, which would lower the
    voltage seen by your ADSL modem, and hence the quality of the signal.
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Jun 30, 2005
    #7
  8. Craig

    Mercury Guest

    Where did I make reference to ADSL filters?
    The topic had already been covered by you in case you forgot.




    "Lawrence D¹Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <d9tu47$def$>, "Mercury" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>There is a "5" unit RN or RAL limit. On the telepermit label there should
    >>be
    >>RN (or RAL) indication. EG RN = 0.5 or RN = 1. They are the numbers - add
    >>them up for the whole house and if over 5, you need to do something. A
    >>modern digital phone such as the panasonic here has RN=0.5 = max 10
    >>extensions :) Overloading the ringer is hopefully totally unrelated to
    >>ADSL,
    >>but who knows?

    >
    > This is separate from the number of ADSL filters you're allowed to have.
    > Remember that all those filters are in parallel as far as the ADSL
    > signal frequencies are concerned, so the more of them you have, the more
    > current drain there is at those frequencies, which would lower the
    > voltage seen by your ADSL modem, and hence the quality of the signal.
     
    Mercury, Jun 30, 2005
    #8
  9. In article <da0cnm$hbr$>, "Mercury" <>
    wrote:

    >Where did I make reference to ADSL filters?
    >The topic had already been covered by you in case you forgot.


    That

    >"Lawrence D¹Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> In article <d9tu47$def$>, "Mercury" <>
    >> wrote:


    is

    >>
    >>>There is a "5" unit RN or RAL limit. On the telepermit label there should
    >>>be
    >>>RN (or RAL) indication. EG RN = 0.5 or RN = 1. They are the numbers - add


    what

    >>>them up for the whole house and if over 5, you need to do something. A
    >>>modern digital phone such as the panasonic here has RN=0.5 = max 10
    >>>extensions :) Overloading the ringer is hopefully totally unrelated to


    this

    >>>ADSL,
    >>>but who knows?

    >>
    >> This is separate from the number of ADSL filters you're allowed to have.


    topic

    >> Remember that all those filters are in parallel as far as the ADSL
    >> signal frequencies are concerned, so the more of them you have, the more
    >> current drain there is at those frequencies, which would lower the
    >> voltage seen by your ADSL modem, and hence the quality of the signal.


    is about.
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Jun 30, 2005
    #9
  10. Craig

    Crash Guest

    Craig wrote:
    > We are ready to leave dial-up behind and get a 2 Mbps DSL connection
    > at home (not Xtra). I wonder if someone could answer for me the
    > following questions regarding the Telecom connection aspects...
    >
    > 1. Telecom will charge a standard $248 to visit our home to install
    > and connect a splitter for the DSL connection. Is this something I
    > could do myself - can I buy the splitter and install it next to the
    > PC? - I have previously added extra phone extensions around the house
    > so I have no difficulty with installing cables and jackpoints. $248
    > does seems alot to pay, or does the technician do more - does he need
    > to climb up the telephone pole, too, to make the connection? I know
    > where the phone wire enters our house - into a junction box on the
    > outside wall. Are there other companies, other than Telecom, who
    > would do it more cheaply? (we are in Auckland).
    >
    > 2. We already have seven phones around the house (as per my
    > actions mentioned above!) so if I go down the "self-install" route I
    > would need to spend about $70 on filters for the existing phones. Will
    > this impact on the DSL speed? Does option 1 (above) give a better
    > speed? I read that the $248 connection and wiring visit should be
    > considered if there are five or more phones in the house, so maybe we
    > have too many phones and have to get a splitter installed anyway ??
    > Can anyone advise?


    I presume that Telecom will do for you what they did for me - though in
    my case what they did was in the context of isolating ADSL reliability
    issues (and this is still a work in progress).

    The splitter will be installed on the line as it enters your home -
    prior to the first phone jack. The filtered side of the splitter will be
    connected to the first jack (and therefore all the others). The
    unfiltered side of the splitter will be wired to a new jack where you
    plug in your ADSL router.

    The advantages of this are:

    a) All existing jacks are filtered - no need for filters between phone
    and jack.

    b) Because your ADSL router is connected as directly to the exchange as
    possible, and you have only one filter installed (versus one per phone
    device) there is a reduced likelihood of interference between filter and
    ADSL service.

    The single disadvantage is that there is just one jack that your ADSL
    router can be connected to.

    In your case, the standard install will allow you to interchangably use
    any jack for any purpose but you will have 7 filters in use - 1 for each
    phone. The 'splitter install' will require you to use a specific (8th)
    jack for your ADSL router and will have a single filter serving all
    existing jacks. The difference is the reduced likelihood of ADSL
    service problems caused by having 7 versus one filters. There may be
    other considerations that I am unaware of.

    Crash.
     
    Crash, Jul 3, 2005
    #10
  11. Craig

    Craig Guest

    On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:55:37 +1200, Crash
    >
    >I presume that Telecom will do for you what they did for me - though in
    >my case what they did was in the context of isolating ADSL reliability
    >issues (and this is still a work in progress).
    >
    >The splitter will be installed on the line as it enters your home -
    >prior to the first phone jack. The filtered side of the splitter will be
    >connected to the first jack (and therefore all the others). The
    >unfiltered side of the splitter will be wired to a new jack where you
    >plug in your ADSL router.
    >
    >The advantages of this are:
    >
    >a) All existing jacks are filtered - no need for filters between phone
    >and jack.
    >
    >b) Because your ADSL router is connected as directly to the exchange as
    >possible, and you have only one filter installed (versus one per phone
    >device) there is a reduced likelihood of interference between filter and
    >ADSL service.
    >
    >The single disadvantage is that there is just one jack that your ADSL
    >router can be connected to.
    >
    >In your case, the standard install will allow you to interchangably use
    >any jack for any purpose but you will have 7 filters in use - 1 for each
    >phone. The 'splitter install' will require you to use a specific (8th)
    >jack for your ADSL router and will have a single filter serving all
    >existing jacks. The difference is the reduced likelihood of ADSL
    >service problems caused by having 7 versus one filters. There may be
    >other considerations that I am unaware of.
    >

    Thanks Crash for your reply. Since starting this thread last week I
    have done some research of archived Usenet *.nz posts. Your comments
    above confirm everything that I have managed to discover.

    When Telecom visit a home they install what is properly described as a
    "central in-line splitter". This is installed before the first
    telephone socket (in fact it's small enough to be installed right
    inside the first telephone socket box) and, as you wrote above, has
    the effect of then filtering every phone socket in the house. A new
    separate line is then wired-in and run from BEFORE the "central
    in-line filter" to near your PC for the unfiltered ADSL connection.
    Sometimes the engineer will modify or re-wire an existing phone socket
    close to the PC and make that the unfiltered ADSL connection, instead
    of running a new line.

    The problem is that there is apparently no easy way for the public is
    buy these "central in-line filters" as Telecom refuses to "Telepermit"
    them, thereby effectively discouraging retailers from stocking them.

    Some writers of archived usenet posts claimed that in this way Telecom
    maintains a monopoly on ADSL installation work because no-one but them
    have the filters.

    Other archived posters reported some success in approaching Telecom
    contractors (such as Downers staff) when sighting them undertaking
    work in streets, and persuading the contractor to let them have a
    filter.

    I did discover that the company "D-Link" manufacture a suitable
    central in-line filter for the Australian market - a DSL-10SP
    (see http://www.dlink.com.au/products/broadband/filters/)
    which retails for around $50. I am unsure of it's availability in New
    Zealand and the pictured model has sockets at each end of it, instead
    of flying leads which would be more suitable for easy wiring into the
    New Zealand phone BT phone socket box.

    So, whilst the installation of a central in-line filter is very simple
    (anyone who has installed an extension phone socket in their home
    could do it), the unavailability of the central in-line filter for
    purchase by the public would seem to preclude the average handy-minded
    person from undertaking the install, and instead they are forced to
    pay $149 to Telecom to do the job for them.

    So, I think I will be obliged to get Telecom in and in these
    circumstances, for my $149, I will be home to ensure a new ADSL
    unfiltered line is installed to my PC.

    I was interested in your comment about ADSL reliability issues. Even
    though Telecom have confirmed that our phone number can get ADSL, I
    know our internal phone wiring is very old. Could you please tell me
    what your installer was able to do to check your line speed?

    We are looking at a 2mbps plan, and want to be sure that we can get
    that speed, or near it. I imagine if I insist on having a new line for
    the ADSL installed that this would reduce the risk of a disappointing
    speed, and if the speed was later found to be chronically low the
    fault would then lie with Telecom's wiring from the house back to the
    pole. Would they be obliged to replace it, I wonder? We are looking at
    a non-Xtra ISP broadband provider, so maybe they might attempt to
    avoid replacing the line from the pole to the house

    Anyway, thanks again for your original reply, and maybe you can
    comment on the two points I raised above.

    Regards, Craig
     
    Craig, Jul 4, 2005
    #11
  12. Craig

    Crash Guest

    Craig wrote:
    [snip]

    >
    > I was interested in your comment about ADSL reliability issues. Even
    > though Telecom have confirmed that our phone number can get ADSL, I
    > know our internal phone wiring is very old. Could you please tell me
    > what your installer was able to do to check your line speed?
    >


    Line speed is reported by the router and is consistently over 44500 Kbps
    downstream and 320 Kbps upstream, both interleaved (whatever that means). It
    has always been like this. I am on a 2 meg plan.

    > We are looking at a 2mbps plan, and want to be sure that we can get
    > that speed, or near it. I imagine if I insist on having a new line for
    > the ADSL installed that this would reduce the risk of a disappointing
    > speed, and if the speed was later found to be chronically low the
    > fault would then lie with Telecom's wiring from the house back to the
    > pole. Would they be obliged to replace it, I wonder? We are looking at
    > a non-Xtra ISP broadband provider, so maybe they might attempt to
    > avoid replacing the line from the pole to the house


    If you have a splitter installed and a newly-wired dedicated jack for the router
    then if you get poor speeds then it will be either your router or Telecom's line
    quality. If your router reports good speeds (as above)then poor performance
    from a speed test(I use http://www.speedtest.co.nz.com/ to measure it) can
    logically only come from Telecom or your ISP.

    Using Xtra as my ISP and the Xtra-supplied routers has meant no pissing matches
    involving ISP, Telecom and router hardware. Given that you intend to use another
    ISP then if you have speed issues be prepared to watch your ISP and Telecom slug
    it out.....

    Crash.
     
    Crash, Jul 5, 2005
    #12
  13. In article <CdIye.13267$>, "PAM." <> wrote:
    >"Sc00ter" <> wrote in message
    >>
    >> Will you still have to pay the $248 if he doesn't have to do
    >> anything other than enabling your connection at the local
    >> exchange?

    >
    >For me it was $149 (special offer). I ended up paying and complaining about
    >it. The finally gave me back my $149. No. I don't believe you need pay it.
    >
    >If they didn't give me back my $149, I was going to phone them up regularly
    >and keep on at them and spend more than $149 of their staff time on the
    >phone wasting it all.
    >:)


    ... a bastard after me own heart. As I suspected :)


    Bruce


    -------------------------------------
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
    - George Bernard Shaw
    Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
    - Ambrose Bierce

    Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
    (if there were any)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Jul 6, 2005
    #13
  14. Craig

    Sc00ter Guest

    On , , Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:51:10 +1200, Re: Question about DSL
    connections by Telecom at your home, "PAM."
    <> wrote:

    >> Craig wrote:
    >>
    >> > We are ready to leave dial-up behind and get a 2 Mbps DSL connection
    >> > at home (not Xtra). I wonder if someone could answer for me the
    >> > following questions regarding the Telecom connection aspects...
    >> >
    >> > 1. Telecom will charge a standard $248 to visit our home to install
    >> > and connect a splitter for the DSL connection. Is this something I
    >> > could do myself - can I buy the splitter and install it next to the
    >> > PC? - I have previously added extra phone extensions around the house
    >> > so I have no difficulty with installing cables and jackpoints. $248
    >> > does seems alot to pay, or does the technician do more - does he need
    >> > to climb up the telephone pole, too, to make the connection? I know
    >> > where the phone wire enters our house - into a junction box on the
    >> > outside wall. Are there other companies, other than Telecom, who
    >> > would do it more cheaply? (we are in Auckland).

    >
    >I had this issue and decided to get the chap out. A technician phoned and he
    >said all he did was check that there is a connection and plug in my splitter
    >and leave.
    >I said no thanks, I'll do it myself.
    >You can do all this yourself. As for the DSL modem, it was pre-configured
    >and connected up to the 'net itself once I'd put in all the cables from
    >phone to splitter to modem to PC and the modem power cable. I didn't have to
    >do a thing regarding setting up the modem, although I checked the firewalls
    >after it had connected.
    >To connect you up he also needs to turn something on at the exchange. No
    >phone poles.


    Will you still have to pay the $248 if he doesn't have to do
    anything other than enabling your connection at the local
    exchange?

    --
    Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus
    ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem. (In the good
    old days, children like you were left to perish
    on windswept crags.)
     
    Sc00ter, Jul 6, 2005
    #14
  15. Craig

    PAM. Guest

    "Sc00ter" <> wrote in message
    >
    > Will you still have to pay the $248 if he doesn't have to do
    > anything other than enabling your connection at the local
    > exchange?


    For me it was $149 (special offer). I ended up paying and complaining about
    it. The finally gave me back my $149. No. I don't believe you need pay it.

    If they didn't give me back my $149, I was going to phone them up regularly
    and keep on at them and spend more than $149 of their staff time on the
    phone wasting it all.
    :)

    PAM.
     
    PAM., Jul 6, 2005
    #15
  16. Craig

    PAM. Guest

    "Bruce Sinclair" <> wrote
    in message

    > .. a bastard after me own heart. As I suspected :)


    >:)


    PAM.
     
    PAM., Jul 6, 2005
    #16
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