Quebec VS MCSE

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by SJ, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. SJ

    SJ Guest

    SJ, Oct 15, 2005
    #1
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  2. The Rev [MCT], Oct 15, 2005
    #2
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  3. SJ

    Dave Guest

    "SJ" <> wrote in message
    news:hI94f.17380$...
    > It's officially illegal to use the title MCSE in Quebec.
    >
    > http://www.oiq.qc.ca/whatsnew/afficher-communiques.html?450

    Good! Let's face it, it's possible to obtain an MCSE by braindumps alone
    and never having actually driven a server as such, so why should a
    "qualification" such as the MCSE allow you to be referred to as an
    "Engineer"? Please note that I'm not advocating braindumps, I'm merely
    saying that the MCSE has been undervalued (amongst other reasons) by their
    use. Other professions dictate that you need real professional
    qualifications (degrees(s)) followed by monitored (authentic) experience
    followed by sucessful applications to Chartered Status in order to be called
    an "Engineer". Now compare that to braindumping 7 exams to get an MCSE,
    it's a no brainer. I applaud Quebec for having the bollox to state the
    completely bleedin' obvious.
     
    Dave, Oct 16, 2005
    #3
  4. "Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "SJ" <> wrote in message
    > news:hI94f.17380$...
    >> It's officially illegal to use the title MCSE in Quebec.
    >>
    >> http://www.oiq.qc.ca/whatsnew/afficher-communiques.html?450


    > Good! Let's face it, it's possible to obtain an MCSE by braindumps alone
    > and never having actually driven a server as such, so why should a
    > "qualification" such as the MCSE allow you to be referred to as an
    > "Engineer"? Please note that I'm not advocating braindumps, I'm merely
    > saying that the MCSE has been undervalued (amongst other reasons) by their
    > use. Other professions dictate that you need real professional
    > qualifications (degrees(s)) followed by monitored (authentic) experience
    > followed by sucessful applications to Chartered Status in order to be
    > called an "Engineer". Now compare that to braindumping 7 exams to get an
    > MCSE, it's a no brainer. I applaud Quebec for having the bollox to state
    > the completely bleedin' obvious.


    Quebec obviously has time to waste prosecuting people for something that
    really isn't a crime.

    I applaud Quebec for having a government with nothing better to do.

    When I am elected president of Quebec, which I will accomplish after getting
    their current government incarcerated by McCarthyist 'You're secretly an
    MCSE' tactics, I will pass laws that make it illegal to urinate if the color
    isn't a specific tone of yellow, and the government will disallow public use
    of the capital letter G, except when referring to the Government.
     
    Microcephalic S. Bob, Oct 16, 2005
    #4
  5. SJ

    Briscobar Guest

    Microcephalic S. Bob <http://www.planetoftheheads.com/> rambled:
    >
    > I applaud Quebec for having a government with nothing better to do.



    Yeah, me too. It's obvious that they must have solved all other problems if
    they have time to devote to this.

    --
    KB

    MCNGP #26
     
    Briscobar, Oct 16, 2005
    #5
  6. SJ

    Dave Guest

    "Microcephalic S. Bob" <http://www.planetoftheheads.com/> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Dave" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> "SJ" <> wrote in message
    >> news:hI94f.17380$...
    >>> It's officially illegal to use the title MCSE in Quebec.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.oiq.qc.ca/whatsnew/afficher-communiques.html?450

    >
    >> Good! Let's face it, it's possible to obtain an MCSE by braindumps alone
    >> and never having actually driven a server as such, so why should a
    >> "qualification" such as the MCSE allow you to be referred to as an
    >> "Engineer"? Please note that I'm not advocating braindumps, I'm merely
    >> saying that the MCSE has been undervalued (amongst other reasons) by
    >> their use. Other professions dictate that you need real professional
    >> qualifications (degrees(s)) followed by monitored (authentic) experience
    >> followed by sucessful applications to Chartered Status in order to be
    >> called an "Engineer". Now compare that to braindumping 7 exams to get an
    >> MCSE, it's a no brainer. I applaud Quebec for having the bollox to state
    >> the completely bleedin' obvious.

    >
    > Quebec obviously has time to waste prosecuting people for something that
    > really isn't a crime.
    >
    > I applaud Quebec for having a government with nothing better to do.
    >
    > When I am elected president of Quebec, which I will accomplish after
    > getting their current government incarcerated by McCarthyist 'You're
    > secretly an MCSE' tactics, I will pass laws that make it illegal to
    > urinate if the color isn't a specific tone of yellow, and the government
    > will disallow public use of the capital letter G, except when referring to
    > the Government.

    Point completely missed.
     
    Dave, Oct 16, 2005
    #6
  7. SJ

    Robert Moir Guest

    Dave wrote:
    > "SJ" <> wrote in message
    > news:hI94f.17380$...
    >> It's officially illegal to use the title MCSE in Quebec.
    >>
    >> http://www.oiq.qc.ca/whatsnew/afficher-communiques.html?450

    > Good! Let's face it, it's possible to obtain an MCSE by braindumps
    > alone and never having actually driven a server as such, so why
    > should a "qualification" such as the MCSE allow you to be referred to
    > as an "Engineer"? Please note that I'm not advocating braindumps,
    > I'm merely saying that the MCSE has been undervalued (amongst other
    > reasons) by their use. Other professions dictate that you need real
    > professional qualifications (degrees(s)) followed by monitored
    > (authentic) experience followed by sucessful applications to
    > Chartered Status in order to be called an "Engineer". Now compare
    > that to braindumping 7 exams to get an MCSE, it's a no brainer. I
    > applaud Quebec for having the bollox to state the completely bleedin'
    > obvious.


    Their approach is like dealing with rust by putting another coat of paint on
    the car.
     
    Robert Moir, Oct 16, 2005
    #7
  8. SJ

    SJ Guest

    what's sad is all the people in Quebec that are in school right now working
    towards MCSE.
     
    SJ, Oct 17, 2005
    #8
  9. >> When I am elected president of Quebec, which I will accomplish after
    >> getting their current government incarcerated by McCarthyist 'You're
    >> secretly an MCSE' tactics, I will pass laws that make it illegal to
    >> urinate if the color isn't a specific tone of yellow, and the government
    >> will disallow public use of the capital letter G, except when referring
    >> to the Government.


    "Dave" <> wrote

    > Point completely missed.


    There was supposed to be a point?
     
    Microcephalic S. Bob, Oct 17, 2005
    #9
  10. "SJ" <> wrote in message
    news:YyC4f.7740$...
    > what's sad is all the people in Quebec that are in school right now
    > working towards MCSE.


    They were sad anyway, because next Quebec will outlaw salad.
     
    Microcephalic S. Bob, Oct 17, 2005
    #10
  11. SJ

    Dave Guest

    "Microcephalic S. Bob" <http://www.planetoftheheads.com/> wrote in message
    news:e3rD0$...
    >>> When I am elected president of Quebec, which I will accomplish after
    >>> getting their current government incarcerated by McCarthyist 'You're
    >>> secretly an MCSE' tactics, I will pass laws that make it illegal to
    >>> urinate if the color isn't a specific tone of yellow, and the government
    >>> will disallow public use of the capital letter G, except when referring
    >>> to the Government.

    >
    > "Dave" <> wrote
    >
    >> Point completely missed.

    >
    > There was supposed to be a point?

    Yes, there are real engineers and then there are pretend engineers. The
    MCSE qualification itself belongs to the latter. M$ need to make it more of
    an exclusive qualification, give it a better standing, some respectability.
    As it stands at the moment, it's easy to obtain if you braindump it. This
    results in people being "qualified" at MCSE level and really not knowing
    their stuff. How can you refer to sombody who has taken this route to
    obtain a qualification, an Engineer? Ok, so Quebec have tarred everybody
    with the same brush which is unfortunate but understandable. I'm sue this
    will change if M$ make the MCSE a real engineering qualification.
     
    Dave, Oct 17, 2005
    #11
  12. SJ

    Dave Guest

    "Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Microcephalic S. Bob" <http://www.planetoftheheads.com/> wrote in message
    > news:e3rD0$...
    >>>> When I am elected president of Quebec, which I will accomplish after
    >>>> getting their current government incarcerated by McCarthyist 'You're
    >>>> secretly an MCSE' tactics, I will pass laws that make it illegal to
    >>>> urinate if the color isn't a specific tone of yellow, and the
    >>>> government will disallow public use of the capital letter G, except
    >>>> when referring to the Government.

    >>
    >> "Dave" <> wrote
    >>
    >>> Point completely missed.

    >>
    >> There was supposed to be a point?

    > Yes, there are real engineers and then there are pretend engineers. The
    > MCSE qualification itself belongs to the latter. M$ need to make it more
    > of an exclusive qualification, give it a better standing, some
    > respectability. As it stands at the moment, it's easy to obtain if you
    > braindump it. This results in people being "qualified" at MCSE level and
    > really not knowing their stuff. How can you refer to sombody who has
    > taken this route to obtain a qualification, an Engineer? Ok, so Quebec
    > have tarred everybody with the same brush which is unfortunate but
    > understandable. I'm sue this will change if M$ make the MCSE a real
    > engineering qualification.

    Last sentence should have been: I'm sure this will change if M$ make the
    MCSE a real engineering qualification.
     
    Dave, Oct 17, 2005
    #12
  13. SJ

    Neil Guest

    did you hear "Dave" <> say in news:ufJmdJv0FHA.3420
    @TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

    > Yes, there are real engineers and then there are pretend engineers. The
    > MCSE qualification itself belongs to the latter.


    ok, call me a Microsoft Certified Systems Expert if you like, but just keep
    those paychecks rollin'

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - What we have to learn to do, we learn by doing. - Aristotle
     
    Neil, Oct 17, 2005
    #13
  14. SJ

    T-Bone Guest

    "SJ" <> wrote
    > It's officially illegal to use the title MCSE in Quebec.
    >
    > http://www.oiq.qc.ca/whatsnew/afficher-communiques.html?450


    That just means the frenchies will have to alter their equivalent of
    whatever they call the MCSE. Ever since they started calling the Montreal
    transit system STCUM, I look forward to their mangling of English acronyms.
    --
    T-Bone
    MCNGP XL
     
    T-Bone, Oct 17, 2005
    #14
  15. SJ

    Dave Guest

    "Neil" <guess!!!@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns96F25A05F2E3neilmcsegmailcom@207.46.248.16...
    > did you hear "Dave" <> say in news:ufJmdJv0FHA.3420
    > @TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:
    >
    >> Yes, there are real engineers and then there are pretend engineers. The
    >> MCSE qualification itself belongs to the latter.

    >
    > ok, call me a Microsoft Certified Systems Expert if you like, but just
    > keep
    > those paychecks rollin'

    Good one, fair point.
     
    Dave, Oct 17, 2005
    #15
  16. SJ

    Neil Guest

    did you hear "Dave" <> say in
    news:u#:

    > "Neil" <guess!!!@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:Xns96F25A05F2E3neilmcsegmailcom@207.46.248.16...
    >> did you hear "Dave" <> say in news:ufJmdJv0FHA.3420
    >> @TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:
    >>
    >>> Yes, there are real engineers and then there are pretend engineers.
    >>> The MCSE qualification itself belongs to the latter.

    >>
    >> ok, call me a Microsoft Certified Systems Expert if you like, but
    >> just keep
    >> those paychecks rollin'

    > Good one, fair point.
    >
    >
    >


    reality is, I don't care what you call me. I can do my job and prove it
    daily. My paycheck will keep comin with or without the name of the cert.
    I wrote the exams (A) becuase my employer at the time asked me to and
    (II) becuase I wanted to prove to myself that I understood teh subject.

    I know a few Professional Engineers that couldn't design/build a complete
    sentence and a whole bunch of MCSE that get confused when you ask them to
    map a drive from the command prompt. There are incompentent people in all
    feilds. Just becuase a person has a Ph.D. in medicine doesn't bar him
    from the possibilty of malpractice. I am a firm believer that, as one
    person I know put it, "everyone is an idiot, just on different
    subjects".

    I do have an issue with this hitting the courts. If Microsoft, Cisco,
    Novell, IBM and a bunch of others want to rebrand their certs to call
    them something other than "Engineer", that's one thing. To have the
    courts mandate it is another. Most Dentists shouldn't be called Dr. but
    they are. Most Chiropracters shouldn't be called Dr. and a whole bunch of
    Dr. shouldn't be called Dr.

    What I see here is the potential for a cash grab and nothing else. No one
    is going to ask an MCSE to build a bridge or a skyscaper. I also wont ask
    a civil engineer to design my AD forest. But if I call myself an Engineer
    in Quebec, someone will sue and and get cash. Someone else will suggest
    MS (or some other vendor) pay up. Class action suits left right and
    center. I might get sued so I will have to carry more insurance
    (Insurance companies benefit), when I do I will sue (or my insurance
    company will) MS for allowing me to be called "Engineer". The Univeristy
    will like it becuase the only way you can actually call yourself
    "Engineer" is to take the classes and write the exam. everybody is makin
    money, so why not, right?

    Becuase its a cash grab for the sake of a cash grab. morals, ethics and
    common sense. Why aren't they sueing VIA rail (Canadian railway) becuase
    of what they call the guy driving the train? oh, right, they're a
    government agency...

    *shakes head in disgust*

    and imagine the confusion if I am a P.E. and an MCSE. "you can, no you
    can't no you can call yourself an Engineer - I think".

    Next up, "You are an Electrical Engineer, so you aren't really an
    Engineer. You don't build bridges"...

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - As you can see, I have compassion for the mentally retarded.
     
    Neil, Oct 17, 2005
    #16
  17. "Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > How can you refer to sombody who has taken this route to obtain a
    > qualification, an Engineer? Ok, so Quebec have tarred everybody with the
    > same brush which is unfortunate but understandable. I'm sue this will
    > change if M$ make the MCSE a real engineering qualification.


    What you don't grasp here is that Microsoft doesn't care whether people who
    obtain an MCSE are 'real engineers' or not.

    The MCSE program is a source of income, and while they will make an effort
    to obfuscate this fact, Microsoft is perfectly willing to accept money from
    braindumpers as well as 'real engineers'.

    Now, I'm sure someone over there works partially hard to make the tests
    difficult to obtain / cheat on / dump / etc, but it's a losing battle. It
    would simply put the cost too high to come up with a solution.

    Well, I can think of a few solutions, but it's not like anyone over there
    would listen to me, and working for free isn't too good for me.
     
    Microcephalic S. Bob, Oct 17, 2005
    #17
  18. "Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > I'm sue this will change if M$ make the MCSE a real
    >> engineering qualification.

    > Last sentence should have been: I'm sure this will change if M$ make the
    > MCSE a real engineering qualification.


    My brain has an autocorrect function where it tends to look at the sentence
    as a whole and, if it identifies a typo or weird word, tries to figure out
    what was meant. Then, a little talking gerbil with a pencil flies on screen
    and fills in the blanks.
     
    Microcephalic S. Bob, Oct 17, 2005
    #18
  19. SJ

    JaR Guest

    In microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, SJ spewed across the ether:

    > what's sad is Quebec.


    Iffy Piffy

    --
    JaR
    Thug 10110
    MCNGP.com
     
    JaR, Oct 17, 2005
    #19
  20. SJ

    Neil Guest

    did you hear "Microcephalic S. Bob" <http://www.planetoftheheads.com/> say
    in news::

    > Then, a little talking gerbil with a pencil flies on screen
    > and fills in the blanks.
    >


    this one?

    http://joecartoon.atomfilms.com/pages/theboss/

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - A day without sunshine is like night.
     
    Neil, Oct 17, 2005
    #20
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