Qantas dumps Linux for AIX

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by whoisthis, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. whoisthis

    whoisthis Guest

    http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/04/30/0423254.shtml

    "Australia's No. 1 airline Qantas will shift their underlying platform
    running its internal finance systems from Linux to IBM's AIX next month
    as part of a wide-ranging technology transformation project. 'We're
    moving from a Linux platform to an IBM AIX environment ‹ we did that to
    address some stability issues we were having', said Suzanne Young,
    Qantas group general manager for finance improvement and segmentation.
    The decision was made last year, as part of the planning for the
    rollout."
     
    whoisthis, Apr 30, 2007
    #1
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  2. whoisthis

    Mutlley Guest

    whoisthis <> wrote:

    >
    >http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/04/30/0423254.shtml
    >
    >"Australia's No. 1 airline Qantas will shift their underlying platform
    >running its internal finance systems from Linux to IBM's AIX next month
    >as part of a wide-ranging technology transformation project. 'We're
    >moving from a Linux platform to an IBM AIX environment ‹ we did that to
    >address some stability issues we were having', said Suzanne Young,
    >Qantas group general manager for finance improvement and segmentation.
    >The decision was made last year, as part of the planning for the
    >rollout."


    Wonder what sort of money that will cost them??
     
    Mutlley, Apr 30, 2007
    #2
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  3. whoisthis

    Shane Guest

    whoisthis wrote:

    >
    > http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/04/30/0423254.shtml
    >
    > "Australia's No. 1 airline Qantas will shift their underlying platform
    > running its internal finance systems from Linux to IBM's AIX next month
    > as part of a wide-ranging technology transformation project. 'We're
    > moving from a Linux platform to an IBM AIX environment ‹ we did that to
    > address some stability issues we were having', said Suzanne Young,
    > Qantas group general manager for finance improvement and segmentation.
    > The decision was made last year, as part of the planning for the
    > rollout."



    I've just been reading a thread about this on a LUG mailing list.
    http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Qantas-ditches-Linux-for-AIX/0,130061733,339275100,00.htm
    The eQ program in general is designed to deliver more efficient information
    for the airline, which has a complex structure with multiple segmented
    internal businesses using different approaches.

    The new platform for the project will be based around Oracle's 11i database
    and applications, Hyperion's financial management and consolidation tools
    and a Teradata data warehouse. Oracle flagged its plans to buy Hyperion in
    early March this year.

    Oracle has long been a vocal promoter of Linux as a core platform for large
    enterprises. Qantas's original plans called for a totally Oracle-based
    solution, but that was subsequently shifted to a multi-vendor approach to
    better match Qantas's specific needs, according to Young.

    __EOP__
    It *looks* like AIX is being touted as more stable for the applications they
    are using.
    --
    Q: What is clear and used by trendy sophisticated engineers to solve other
    differential equations?
    A: The Perrier transform.
     
    Shane, Apr 30, 2007
    #3
  4. whoisthis

    thingy Guest

    Mutlley wrote:
    > whoisthis <> wrote:
    >
    >> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/04/30/0423254.shtml
    >>
    >> "Australia's No. 1 airline Qantas will shift their underlying platform
    >> running its internal finance systems from Linux to IBM's AIX next month
    >> as part of a wide-ranging technology transformation project. 'We're
    >> moving from a Linux platform to an IBM AIX environment ‹ we did that to
    >> address some stability issues we were having', said Suzanne Young,
    >> Qantas group general manager for finance improvement and segmentation.
    >> The decision was made last year, as part of the planning for the
    >> rollout."

    >
    > Wonder what sort of money that will cost them??


    Quite a bit, but, depends....what does downtime cost them?

    We moved our financial stuff from Sun kit to Linux on Dell and actually
    have more downtime...this is not Linux's fault but actually the flaky
    Oracle RAC software and its kernel modules.......Having a big AIX box is
    simpler and should be a lot more stable (than multiple Linux Boxes using
    RAC), not necessarily because AIX is significantly more stable as a OS
    (than Linux) but because its simpler and because the application on top
    of it will be........

    There is a lot here that is not said....cant really draw a true
    conclusion....but my experience suggests its almost certainly not Linux,
    and given the quality of x86 server s these days not hardware......3rd
    party commercial software on Linux though has proved the bain of my life
    in the last three years....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 30, 2007
    #4
  5. whoisthis

    Enkidu Guest

    Shane wrote:
    > whoisthis wrote:
    >
    >> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/04/30/0423254.shtml
    >>
    >> "Australia's No. 1 airline Qantas will shift their underlying platform
    >> running its internal finance systems from Linux to IBM's AIX next month
    >> as part of a wide-ranging technology transformation project. 'We're
    >> moving from a Linux platform to an IBM AIX environment � we did that to
    >> address some stability issues we were having', said Suzanne Young,
    >> Qantas group general manager for finance improvement and segmentation.
    >> The decision was made last year, as part of the planning for the
    >> rollout."

    >
    >
    > I've just been reading a thread about this on a LUG mailing list.
    > http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Qantas-ditches-Linux-for-AIX/0,130061733,339275100,00.htm
    > The eQ program in general is designed to deliver more efficient information
    > for the airline, which has a complex structure with multiple segmented
    > internal businesses using different approaches.
    >
    > The new platform for the project will be based around Oracle's 11i database
    > and applications, Hyperion's financial management and consolidation tools
    > and a Teradata data warehouse. Oracle flagged its plans to buy Hyperion in
    > early March this year.
    >
    > Oracle has long been a vocal promoter of Linux as a core platform for large
    > enterprises. Qantas's original plans called for a totally Oracle-based
    > solution, but that was subsequently shifted to a multi-vendor approach to
    > better match Qantas's specific needs, according to Young.
    >
    > __EOP__
    > It *looks* like AIX is being touted as more stable for the applications they
    > are using.
    >

    The back story rumour I heard is that the programmers are blaming the
    software for the problems and the software suppliers are blaming the
    programmers. Did I hear someone say 'INCIS'? The move to AIX is a move
    to a fully 'supported' platform and the idea is that this should show if
    it is the programmers or the software.

    The gods be with them, I say. What will really happen is that they will
    get a bunch of new problems.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
     
    Enkidu, Apr 30, 2007
    #5
  6. In article <46365ba0$>, Enkidu <> wrote:
    (snip)
    >The back story rumour I heard is that the programmers are blaming the
    >software for the problems and the software suppliers are blaming the
    >programmers. Did I hear someone say 'INCIS'? The move to AIX is a move
    >to a fully 'supported' platform and the idea is that this should show if
    >it is the programmers or the software.
    >
    >The gods be with them, I say. What will really happen is that they will
    >get a bunch of new problems.


    Yep ... and without any history of what might be causing them :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, May 1, 2007
    #6
  7. whoisthis

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Tue, 01 May 2007 09:12:05 +1200, Enkidu <>
    exclaimed:

    >Shane wrote:
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >>
    >>> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/04/30/0423254.shtml
    >>>
    >>> "Australia's No. 1 airline Qantas will shift their underlying platform
    >>> running its internal finance systems from Linux to IBM's AIX next month
    >>> as part of a wide-ranging technology transformation project. 'We're
    >>> moving from a Linux platform to an IBM AIX environment ? we did that to
    >>> address some stability issues we were having', said Suzanne Young,
    >>> Qantas group general manager for finance improvement and segmentation.
    >>> The decision was made last year, as part of the planning for the
    >>> rollout."

    >>
    >>
    >> I've just been reading a thread about this on a LUG mailing list.
    >> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Qantas-ditches-Linux-for-AIX/0,130061733,339275100,00.htm
    >> The eQ program in general is designed to deliver more efficient information
    >> for the airline, which has a complex structure with multiple segmented
    >> internal businesses using different approaches.
    >>
    >> The new platform for the project will be based around Oracle's 11i database
    >> and applications, Hyperion's financial management and consolidation tools
    >> and a Teradata data warehouse. Oracle flagged its plans to buy Hyperion in
    >> early March this year.
    >>
    >> Oracle has long been a vocal promoter of Linux as a core platform for large
    >> enterprises. Qantas's original plans called for a totally Oracle-based
    >> solution, but that was subsequently shifted to a multi-vendor approach to
    >> better match Qantas's specific needs, according to Young.
    >>
    >> __EOP__
    >> It *looks* like AIX is being touted as more stable for the applications they
    >> are using.
    > >

    >The back story rumour I heard is that the programmers are blaming the
    >software for the problems and the software suppliers are blaming the
    >programmers. Did I hear someone say 'INCIS'? The move to AIX is a move
    >to a fully 'supported' platform and the idea is that this should show if
    >it is the programmers or the software.
    >
    >The gods be with them, I say. What will really happen is that they will
    >get a bunch of new problems.


    Either that, or they would prefer the base of their operations to be
    running on a fully supported commercial operating system, rather than
    one built up by bunch of part-time hacks in their spare time.

    Really, who could blame them?
     
    Fred Dagg, May 1, 2007
    #7
  8. whoisthis

    thingy Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On Tue, 01 May 2007 09:12:05 +1200, Enkidu <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >> Shane wrote:
    >>> whoisthis wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/04/30/0423254.shtml
    >>>>
    >>>> "Australia's No. 1 airline Qantas will shift their underlying platform
    >>>> running its internal finance systems from Linux to IBM's AIX next month
    >>>> as part of a wide-ranging technology transformation project. 'We're
    >>>> moving from a Linux platform to an IBM AIX environment ? we did that to
    >>>> address some stability issues we were having', said Suzanne Young,
    >>>> Qantas group general manager for finance improvement and segmentation.
    >>>> The decision was made last year, as part of the planning for the
    >>>> rollout."
    >>>
    >>> I've just been reading a thread about this on a LUG mailing list.
    >>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Qantas-ditches-Linux-for-AIX/0,130061733,339275100,00.htm
    >>> The eQ program in general is designed to deliver more efficient information
    >>> for the airline, which has a complex structure with multiple segmented
    >>> internal businesses using different approaches.
    >>>
    >>> The new platform for the project will be based around Oracle's 11i database
    >>> and applications, Hyperion's financial management and consolidation tools
    >>> and a Teradata data warehouse. Oracle flagged its plans to buy Hyperion in
    >>> early March this year.
    >>>
    >>> Oracle has long been a vocal promoter of Linux as a core platform for large
    >>> enterprises. Qantas's original plans called for a totally Oracle-based
    >>> solution, but that was subsequently shifted to a multi-vendor approach to
    >>> better match Qantas's specific needs, according to Young.
    >>>
    >>> __EOP__
    >>> It *looks* like AIX is being touted as more stable for the applications they
    >>> are using.
    >>>

    >> The back story rumour I heard is that the programmers are blaming the
    >> software for the problems and the software suppliers are blaming the
    >> programmers. Did I hear someone say 'INCIS'? The move to AIX is a move
    >> to a fully 'supported' platform and the idea is that this should show if
    >> it is the programmers or the software.
    >>
    >> The gods be with them, I say. What will really happen is that they will
    >> get a bunch of new problems.

    >
    > Either that, or they would prefer the base of their operations to be
    > running on a fully supported commercial operating system, rather than
    > one built up by bunch of part-time hacks in their spare time.
    >
    > Really, who could blame them?


    troll....you are beginning to sound as bad as woger.....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, May 1, 2007
    #8
  9. whoisthis

    Don Hills Guest

    In article <>,
    Fred Dagg <> wrote:
    >
    >Either that, or they would prefer the base of their operations to be
    >running on a fully supported commercial operating system, rather than
    >one built up by bunch of part-time hacks in their spare time.
    >
    >Really, who could blame them?


    Blame is what it's all about. Qantas are demonstrating standard risk averse
    behaviour. If it doesn't work they want someone they can blame, and beat
    with a financial / legal stick until it's fixed. It's a valid course of
    action for a company to decide that IT is not their core business and have
    the whole system supplied (and backed with support) by one or two big
    vendors instead of assembling it themselves.

    Put another way, it has little to do with Linux's technical fitness for the
    job. It has a lot to do with its support. Sure, you can get supported
    versions of Linux, but good luck trying to get the Oracle support
    organisation to work whole-heartedly with the Linux support organisation. At
    least with IBM and Oracle you can drop any problem squarely in their laps
    and be confident that they won't shrug their shoulders and say "somebody
    else's problem."

    --
    Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
    "New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
    preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
    -- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
     
    Don Hills, May 1, 2007
    #9
  10. whoisthis

    BrianM Guest

    On Tue, 01 May 2007 09:12:05 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    > Shane wrote:
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >>
    >>> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/04/30/0423254.shtml
    >>>
    >>> "Australia's No. 1 airline Qantas will shift their underlying platform
    >>> running its internal finance systems from Linux to IBM's AIX next month
    >>> as part of a wide-ranging technology transformation project. 'We're
    >>> moving from a Linux platform to an IBM AIX environment we did that to
    >>> address some stability issues we were having', said Suzanne Young,
    >>> Qantas group general manager for finance improvement and segmentation.
    >>> The decision was made last year, as part of the planning for the
    >>> rollout."

    >>
    >>
    >> I've just been reading a thread about this on a LUG mailing list.
    >> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Qantas-ditches-Linux-for-AIX/0,130061733,339275100,00.htm
    >> The eQ program in general is designed to deliver more efficient information
    >> for the airline, which has a complex structure with multiple segmented
    >> internal businesses using different approaches.
    >>
    >> The new platform for the project will be based around Oracle's 11i database
    >> and applications, Hyperion's financial management and consolidation tools
    >> and a Teradata data warehouse. Oracle flagged its plans to buy Hyperion in
    >> early March this year.
    >>
    >> Oracle has long been a vocal promoter of Linux as a core platform for large
    >> enterprises. Qantas's original plans called for a totally Oracle-based
    >> solution, but that was subsequently shifted to a multi-vendor approach to
    >> better match Qantas's specific needs, according to Young.
    >>


    >> It *looks* like AIX is being touted as more stable for the applications they
    >> are using.
    > >

    > The back story rumour I heard is that the programmers are blaming the
    > software for the problems and the software suppliers are blaming the
    > programmers. Did I hear someone say 'INCIS'? The move to AIX is a move
    > to a fully 'supported' platform and the idea is that this should show if
    > it is the programmers or the software.
    >
    > The gods be with them, I say. What will really happen is that they will
    > get a bunch of new problems.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    INCIS would have worked fine if the original IBM O/S2 platform had been
    adhered to, instead, some high-ranking totally clueless members of the
    NZP decided half-way thru the contract to change it to Ms Windows, then Bill
    Birch got involved, and then IBM knew it was an early turkey for xmas.
    The blame rests squarely with the idiots who had too much say and too
    little knowledge. The hardware and software that was being provided
    for INCIS was quite adequate. Having worked in the NZP as a computer
    specialist for 35 years, I saw it happen time and time again. The Wanganui
    computer system, first based on Univac (Unisys) then Unix, was phased
    out too quickly imho.
    brianM
     
    BrianM, May 1, 2007
    #10
  11. whoisthis

    Enkidu Guest

    BrianM wrote:
    >
    > INCIS would have worked fine if the original IBM O/S2 platform had been
    > adhered to, instead, some high-ranking totally clueless members of the
    > NZP decided half-way thru the contract to change it to Ms Windows, then Bill
    > Birch got involved, and then IBM knew it was an early turkey for xmas.
    >

    And where is O/S2 now? INCIS would never have worked,

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
     
    Enkidu, May 1, 2007
    #11
  12. whoisthis

    Don Hills Guest

    In article <4636efa5$>,
    Enkidu <> wrote:
    >BrianM wrote:
    >>
    >> INCIS would have worked fine if the original IBM O/S2 platform had been
    >> adhered to, instead, some high-ranking totally clueless members of the
    >> NZP decided half-way thru the contract to change it to Ms Windows, then Bill
    >> Birch got involved, and then IBM knew it was an early turkey for xmas.
    > >

    >And where is O/S2 now? INCIS would never have worked,


    Don't feed the troll, Brian. You summed it up pretty well.
    I still have my "Police Special" PC...

    --
    Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
    "New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
    preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
    -- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
     
    Don Hills, May 1, 2007
    #12
  13. whoisthis

    thingy Guest

    Enkidu wrote:
    > BrianM wrote:
    >>
    >> INCIS would have worked fine if the original IBM O/S2 platform had been
    >> adhered to, instead, some high-ranking totally clueless members of the
    >> NZP decided half-way thru the contract to change it to Ms Windows,
    >> then Bill
    >> Birch got involved, and then IBM knew it was an early turkey for xmas.
    > >

    > And where is O/S2 now? INCIS would never have worked,
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff
    >


    Still out there and if still not supported today it cannot be that long
    ago since support was stopped...there are a lot of banks etc that use(d)
    os2....I think it was/is popular in ATMs.

    I agree with his comments the NZP are and were clueless, IBM got roasted
    for what was a NZP and Govn c*ck up....IMHO.

    MK1 could have been out the door and working....mk2 could have gone to
    NT4 or Win2000....there were so many delays and changes that IBM just
    gave up....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, May 1, 2007
    #13
  14. whoisthis

    BrianM Guest

    On Tue, 01 May 2007 19:43:39 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    > BrianM wrote:
    >>
    >> INCIS would have worked fine if the original IBM O/S2 platform had been
    >> adhered to, instead, some high-ranking totally clueless members of the
    >> NZP decided half-way thru the contract to change it to Ms Windows, then Bill
    >> Birch got involved, and then IBM knew it was an early turkey for xmas.
    > >

    > And where is O/S2 now? INCIS would never have worked,
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    Au contraire, at that time it would have worked a lot better than dumping
    Windows NT4 on top of it. I didn't know you were working for the NZP at
    the time. If you were you would know that all operating systems evolve.
    Police systems have gone thru Univac, Unisys, Unix, OS2/WinNT, Jade. Parts
    of INCIS are very much alive.

    cheers
    BrianM
     
    BrianM, May 2, 2007
    #14
  15. whoisthis

    BrianM Guest

    On Wed, 02 May 2007 09:28:23 +1200, thingy wrote:

    > Enkidu wrote:
    >> BrianM wrote:
    >>>
    >>> INCIS would have worked fine if the original IBM O/S2 platform had been
    >>> adhered to, instead, some high-ranking totally clueless members of the
    >>> NZP decided half-way thru the contract to change it to Ms Windows,
    >>> then Bill
    >>> Birch got involved, and then IBM knew it was an early turkey for xmas.
    >> >

    >> And where is O/S2 now? INCIS would never have worked,
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >>
    >> Cliff
    >>

    >
    > Still out there and if still not supported today it cannot be that long
    > ago since support was stopped...there are a lot of banks etc that use(d)
    > os2....I think it was/is popular in ATMs.
    >
    > I agree with his comments the NZP are and were clueless, IBM got roasted
    > for what was a NZP and Govn c*ck up....IMHO.
    >
    > MK1 could have been out the door and working....mk2 could have gone to
    > NT4 or Win2000....there were so many delays and changes that IBM just
    > gave up....
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing


    They saw the writing on the wall and cut their losses once the
    then minister of finance got involved.

    cheers
    BrianM
     
    BrianM, May 2, 2007
    #15
  16. whoisthis

    BrianM Guest

    On Wed, 02 May 2007 00:11:41 +1200, Don Hills wrote:

    > In article <4636efa5$>,
    > Enkidu <> wrote:
    >>BrianM wrote:
    >>>
    >>> INCIS would have worked fine if the original IBM O/S2 platform had been
    >>> adhered to, instead, some high-ranking totally clueless members of the
    >>> NZP decided half-way thru the contract to change it to Ms Windows, then Bill
    >>> Birch got involved, and then IBM knew it was an early turkey for xmas.
    >> >

    >>And where is O/S2 now? INCIS would never have worked,

    >
    > Don't feed the troll, Brian. You summed it up pretty well.
    > I still have my "Police Special" PC...


    (and it's prob still got the original 256Mb of Ram)
    I should write a book - but would I get as much as a convicted terry,
    captured combatant, or exotic jail jenny ?


    cheers
    BrianM
     
    BrianM, May 2, 2007
    #16
  17. BrianM wrote:
    > The Wanganui
    > computer system, first based on Univac (Unisys) then Unix, was phased
    > out too quickly imho.


    And isn't it strange that so little is known about it's replacement, aside from
    it's unreliability.
     
    Mark Robinson, May 2, 2007
    #17
  18. whoisthis

    Don Hills Guest

    In article <>,
    BrianM <> wrote:
    >
    >(and it's prob still got the original 256Mb of Ram)
    >I should write a book - but would I get as much as a convicted terry,
    >captured combatant, or exotic jail jenny ?


    256 MB was done onsite. As shipped from IBM, they had 32 MB and no OS.
    A book might become popular as a case study for business courses...

    --
    Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
    "New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
    preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
    -- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
     
    Don Hills, May 3, 2007
    #18
  19. whoisthis

    Don Hills Guest

    In article <2tod.net>,
    Mark Robinson <2tod.net> wrote:
    >
    >And isn't it strange that so little is known about it's replacement, aside from
    >it's unreliability.


    "We have maintained a silence closely resembling stupidity."

    --
    Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
    "New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
    preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
    -- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
     
    Don Hills, May 3, 2007
    #19
  20. whoisthis

    BrianM Guest

    On Thu, 03 May 2007 21:04:14 +1200, Don Hills wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > BrianM <> wrote:
    >>
    >>(and it's prob still got the original 256Mb of Ram)
    >>I should write a book - but would I get as much as a convicted terry,
    >>captured combatant, or exotic jail jenny ?

    >
    > 256 MB was done onsite. As shipped from IBM, they had 32 MB and no OS.
    > A book might become popular as a case study for business courses...


    My mistake - the originals did come with about 32mb ram.
    Dunno about business courses, but it would make an outstanding
    exaple of what happens when you ignore advice from people who
    actually know something about computer systems. It was doomed
    from the very first day they sent computer illiterate people on expensive
    overseas trips to look at other Police computer systems (CAD etc).
    "Wow ! great colour screens, comfortable chairs, we haven't got any mice
    like these"
    "Did you take some notes on the servers being used?"
    "Servers? this wasn't a trip to watch tennis you know !"
    "OK, how were their databases set up? linkages etc"
    "What's a database?"
    ad nauseum.

    cheers
    BrianM
     
    BrianM, May 3, 2007
    #20
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