PSU overkill? 1100 Watts in HP Blackbird Gaming PC

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Squiggle, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Squiggle, Sep 6, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Squiggle

    XPD Guest

    "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    news:46df6739$...
    > HP aims $10K PC at cashed-up gamers
    >
    > http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/email/index.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462022
    >
    > 1100Watts.. maybe it make a good coffee while you frag monsters? for $10K
    > i'd hope so!
    >
    > Guess you can do away with the oil fin heater in the gaming room these
    > days, just fire up a game and get the room nice and toasty warm.


    1000w isnt anything new now.... friend just got a new system and the manual
    for the mobo says a minimum 500w PSU is required... add on top of that any
    fancy GFX cards you have etc and it adds up reasonably quickly.
    So hopefully that means I get a decent PSU for my system off him cheap ;) I
    live off others upgrades ;)
    XPD, Sep 6, 2007
    #2
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  3. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    XPD wrote:
    > "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    > news:46df6739$...
    >> HP aims $10K PC at cashed-up gamers
    >>
    >> http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/email/index.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462022
    >>
    >> 1100Watts.. maybe it make a good coffee while you frag monsters? for $10K
    >> i'd hope so!
    >>
    >> Guess you can do away with the oil fin heater in the gaming room these
    >> days, just fire up a game and get the room nice and toasty warm.

    >
    > 1000w isnt anything new now.... friend just got a new system and the manual
    > for the mobo says a minimum 500w PSU is required... add on top of that any
    > fancy GFX cards you have etc and it adds up reasonably quickly.
    > So hopefully that means I get a decent PSU for my system off him cheap ;) I
    > live off others upgrades ;)




    I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits and
    spin a few drives.
    Coming from my previous industry where an 800 watt electric motor was
    used for moving people around at a reasonable pace.

    And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three
    drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?
    Squiggle, Sep 6, 2007
    #3
  4. Squiggle

    Jerry Guest

    Squiggle wrote:
    > XPD wrote:
    >> "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    >> news:46df6739$...
    >>> HP aims $10K PC at cashed-up gamers
    >>>
    >>> http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/email/index.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462022
    >>>
    >>> 1100Watts.. maybe it make a good coffee while you frag monsters? for
    >>> $10K i'd hope so!
    >>>
    >>> Guess you can do away with the oil fin heater in the gaming room
    >>> these days, just fire up a game and get the room nice and toasty warm.

    >>
    >> 1000w isnt anything new now.... friend just got a new system and the
    >> manual for the mobo says a minimum 500w PSU is required... add on top
    >> of that any fancy GFX cards you have etc and it adds up reasonably
    >> quickly.
    >> So hopefully that means I get a decent PSU for my system off him cheap
    >> ;) I live off others upgrades ;)

    >
    >
    >
    > I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits and
    > spin a few drives.
    > Coming from my previous industry where an 800 watt electric motor was
    > used for moving people around at a reasonable pace.
    >
    > And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    > surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    > reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    > components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three
    > drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?


    It wasn't really all that long ago I worked on hard drives that used a 3
    phase 3/4HP motor to spin the disks.
    Jerry, Sep 6, 2007
    #4
  5. Squiggle

    Allistar Guest

    Squiggle wrote:

    > XPD wrote:
    >> "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    >> news:46df6739$...
    >>> HP aims $10K PC at cashed-up gamers
    >>>
    >>> http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/email/index.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462022
    >>>
    >>> 1100Watts.. maybe it make a good coffee while you frag monsters? for
    >>> $10K i'd hope so!
    >>>
    >>> Guess you can do away with the oil fin heater in the gaming room these
    >>> days, just fire up a game and get the room nice and toasty warm.

    >>
    >> 1000w isnt anything new now.... friend just got a new system and the
    >> manual for the mobo says a minimum 500w PSU is required... add on top of
    >> that any fancy GFX cards you have etc and it adds up reasonably quickly.
    >> So hopefully that means I get a decent PSU for my system off him cheap ;)
    >> I live off others upgrades ;)

    >
    >
    >
    > I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits and
    > spin a few drives.
    > Coming from my previous industry where an 800 watt electric motor was
    > used for moving people around at a reasonable pace.
    >
    > And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    > surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    > reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    > components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three
    > drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?


    I've always gone by the rule of thumb that each drive and graphics adapter
    requires about 50W each. It's probably a crude measure, but it seems to
    work. My current box has a 700W PSU (2x PCIe NVidia cards, 4x SATA drives
    and a thirsty quad core CPU).
    --
    A.
    Allistar, Sep 6, 2007
    #5
  6. In <> Squiggle wrote:
    > XPD wrote:
    >> "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    >> news:46df6739$...
    >>> HP aims $10K PC at cashed-up gamers
    >>>
    >>> http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/email/index.cfm?c_id=5&
    >>> objectid=10462022
    >>>
    >>> 1100Watts.. maybe it make a good coffee while you frag monsters? for
    >>> $10K i'd hope so!
    >>>
    >>> Guess you can do away with the oil fin heater in the gaming room
    >>> these days, just fire up a game and get the room nice and toasty
    >>> warm.

    >>
    >> 1000w isnt anything new now.... friend just got a new system and the
    >> manual for the mobo says a minimum 500w PSU is required... add on
    >> top of that any fancy GFX cards you have etc and it adds up
    >> reasonably quickly. So hopefully that means I get a decent PSU for my
    >> system off him cheap ;) I live off others upgrades ;)

    >
    >
    >
    > I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits
    > and spin a few drives. Coming from my previous industry where an 800
    > watt electric motor was used for moving people around at a reasonable
    > pace.
    >
    > And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    > surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    > reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    > components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming
    > three drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?


    'Struth! According to the specs my iMac only _uses_ 180 W maximum, and
    that includes the display. I suppose if the HP PC is five times faster
    you'll finish the game in a fifth the time though, so it all evens out ;
    o)


    --
    * Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
    * PS/2 Mouse Adapter for vintage Apple II or Mac
    * SCART RGB video cable for Apple IIGS
    Roger Johnstone, Sep 6, 2007
    #6
  7. Squiggle

    Mickey Mouse Guest

    "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits and
    > spin a few drives.
    > Coming from my previous industry where an 800 watt electric motor was used
    > for moving people around at a reasonable pace.
    >
    > And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    > surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a reasonable
    > amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system components (Mobo
    > and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three drives) so where
    > is the need for the other 500W?


    The figures for a PSU state its maximum rated capacity - normally they use
    substantially less. Generally a decent quality PSU should be capable of
    delivering a sustained 80% efficiency of it's rated capacity.

    There is also a question as to what loadings a system demands on the
    available 3.3V, 5V or 12V rails.

    Many of the latest dual core CPU's have TDP ratings equivalent to the older
    AMD Thunderbird's and Intel P4's.
    Mickey Mouse, Sep 6, 2007
    #7
  8. Squiggle

    EMB Guest

    Jerry wrote:
    >
    > It wasn't really all that long ago I worked on hard drives that used a 3
    > phase 3/4HP motor to spin the disks.


    Scary bloody things - waltzing round the room if they were out of balance.
    EMB, Sep 6, 2007
    #8
  9. Squiggle

    thingy Guest

    Squiggle wrote:
    > XPD wrote:
    >> "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    >> news:46df6739$...
    >>> HP aims $10K PC at cashed-up gamers
    >>>
    >>> http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/email/index.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462022
    >>>
    >>> 1100Watts.. maybe it make a good coffee while you frag monsters? for
    >>> $10K i'd hope so!
    >>>
    >>> Guess you can do away with the oil fin heater in the gaming room
    >>> these days, just fire up a game and get the room nice and toasty warm.

    >>
    >> 1000w isnt anything new now.... friend just got a new system and the
    >> manual for the mobo says a minimum 500w PSU is required... add on top
    >> of that any fancy GFX cards you have etc and it adds up reasonably
    >> quickly.
    >> So hopefully that means I get a decent PSU for my system off him cheap
    >> ;) I live off others upgrades ;)

    >
    >
    >
    > I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits and
    > spin a few drives.
    > Coming from my previous industry where an 800 watt electric motor was
    > used for moving people around at a reasonable pace.
    >
    > And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    > surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    > reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    > components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three
    > drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?


    http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/08/09/pc_power_supplies/index.html

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Sep 6, 2007
    #9
  10. Squiggle

    thingy Guest

    Roger Johnstone wrote:
    > In <> Squiggle wrote:
    >> XPD wrote:
    >>> "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:46df6739$...
    >>>> HP aims $10K PC at cashed-up gamers
    >>>>
    >>>> http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/email/index.cfm?c_id=5&
    >>>> objectid=10462022
    >>>>
    >>>> 1100Watts.. maybe it make a good coffee while you frag monsters? for
    >>>> $10K i'd hope so!
    >>>>
    >>>> Guess you can do away with the oil fin heater in the gaming room
    >>>> these days, just fire up a game and get the room nice and toasty
    >>>> warm.
    >>> 1000w isnt anything new now.... friend just got a new system and the
    >>> manual for the mobo says a minimum 500w PSU is required... add on
    >>> top of that any fancy GFX cards you have etc and it adds up
    >>> reasonably quickly. So hopefully that means I get a decent PSU for my
    >>> system off him cheap ;) I live off others upgrades ;)

    >>
    >>
    >> I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits
    >> and spin a few drives. Coming from my previous industry where an 800
    >> watt electric motor was used for moving people around at a reasonable
    >> pace.
    >>
    >> And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    >> surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    >> reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    >> components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming
    >> three drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?

    >
    > 'Struth! According to the specs my iMac only _uses_ 180 W maximum, and
    > that includes the display. I suppose if the HP PC is five times faster
    > you'll finish the game in a fifth the time though, so it all evens out ;
    > o)
    >
    >


    How big a screen?

    My new machine has little power draw as everything is inbuilt....excl
    the CRT monitor at 120w, it is probably well less than 100w....LCD's use
    little power so 180w seems high.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Sep 7, 2007
    #10
  11. In article <>, says...
    >
    > And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    > surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    > reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    > components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three
    > drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?


    No, those figures are unrealistic. There were cpus that used over 100W but the
    technology is going the other way. My reasonably fast Core 2 Duo uses 65W. AMD
    make up-to-date processors that go as low as 35W; 45W is more common though.

    I have a just-below-bleeding-edge gfx card and it uses less than 100W,
    typically. (NVidia 8800 GTS with 320Mb onboard).

    So, in other words, I did use an online calculator before I did this upgrade
    and I came in at around 320W with 2 harddrives and 2 optical drives and 2 pci
    cards on top of cpu and gfx, ram and chipset. I could even power a second gfx
    card with my current 425W psu - not that I see the need. Idling or web-browsing
    this thing runs around 60-100W I'd say, going on the amount of heat it sheds.

    -P.


    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
    Peter Huebner, Sep 7, 2007
    #11
  12. In <> thingy wrote:
    > Roger Johnstone wrote:
    >>
    >> 'Struth! According to the specs my iMac only _uses_ 180 W maximum,
    >> and that includes the display. I suppose if the HP PC is five times
    >> faster you'll finish the game in a fifth the time though, so it all
    >> evens out ; o)

    >
    > How big a screen?
    >
    > My new machine has little power draw as everything is inbuilt....excl
    > the CRT monitor at 120w, it is probably well less than 100w....LCD's
    > use little power so 180w seems high.
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing


    It's a first generation Intel-based Mac (or 'IBM') iMac Core Duo 1.83
    GHz with 17-inch LCD. The 180 W is the maximum continuous power, so most
    of the time it would be using much less than that. Typical CPU
    temperature when idling is about 15 degrees above ambient, with almost-
    silent fans.

    I just checked the specs page for the current iMacs and the power hasn't
    crept up much. The 24-inch, 2.8 GHz Core 2 Extreme iMac uses a maximum
    of 280 W.

    --
    * Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
    * PS/2 Mouse Adapter for vintage Apple II or Mac
    * SCART RGB video cable for Apple IIGS
    Roger Johnstone, Sep 7, 2007
    #12
  13. In message <>, Roger Johnstone
    wrote:

    > It's a first generation Intel-based Mac (or 'IBM') iMac Core Duo 1.83...


    Actually, the PowerPC G5 processors that Apple _used_ to use were made by
    IBM, the current x86 processors are not.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 7, 2007
    #13
  14. In <fbr10p$dha$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Roger
    > Johnstone wrote:
    >
    >> It's a first generation Intel-based Mac (or 'IBM') iMac Core Duo 1.83...

    >
    > Actually, the PowerPC G5 processors that Apple _used_ to use were made
    > by IBM, the current x86 processors are not.


    Intel Based Mac = I.B.M.

    It's a joke referring to the fact that Macs now use the same processors
    as IBM PCs did.


    --
    * Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
    * PS/2 Mouse Adapter for vintage Apple II or Mac
    * SCART RGB video cable for Apple IIGS
    Roger Johnstone, Sep 7, 2007
    #14
  15. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Peter Huebner wrote:
    > In article <>, says...
    >> And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    >> surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    >> reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    >> components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three
    >> drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?

    >
    > No, those figures are unrealistic. There were cpus that used over 100W but the
    > technology is going the other way.


    Intel core 2 quad at 2.93Ghz is rated at 130W* ,and the Windsor Athlon
    64 X2 6000+ is rated at 125W* so my figure of 150W is reasonable IMO.

    *wikipedia figures, not verified.

    > My reasonably fast Core 2 Duo uses 65W. AMD
    > make up-to-date processors that go as low as 35W; 45W is more common though.
    >
    > I have a just-below-bleeding-edge gfx card and it uses less than 100W,
    > typically. (NVidia 8800 GTS with 320Mb onboard).


    But for power supply sizing you dont want typical figures, you want
    maximums. Found this copy of an email that a user had posted on a website:
    ******
    Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

    I understand from your email, that you want to know the power
    consumption of the GeForce 8800 GTS, GeForce 8800 GTX and GeForce 8800
    ultra cards.

    The GeForce 8800 Ultra GPU requires 12v and 35 A rating. This card
    requires 500 W power supply in the system and it requires 175 W
    exclusively for the card. Please check the web link below for more
    information about the GeForce 8800 GTS and GeForce 8800 GTX power supply
    requirement:

    http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....hp?p_faqid=2008

    The GeForce 8800 cards require exclusively 175 W.

    Please feel free to contact us, if you have any further questions.

    Regards,

    NVIDIA Customer Care.
    *****

    All of which makes no sense.. 12V @ 35A is 420W, not 175W, and if the
    card only requires 175W why demand a minimum of 500W PSU in the system.
    Let the user sort out there own power system needs.
    >
    > So, in other words, I did use an online calculator before I did this upgrade
    > and I came in at around 320W with 2 harddrives and 2 optical drives and 2 pci
    > cards on top of cpu and gfx, ram and chipset. I could even power a second gfx
    > card with my current 425W psu - not that I see the need. Idling or web-browsing
    > this thing runs around 60-100W I'd say, going on the amount of heat it sheds.
    >

    Norty norty man, dont tell nvidia that if you ever want to claim under
    warranty :)
    Squiggle, Sep 7, 2007
    #15
  16. In message <>, Roger Johnstone
    wrote:

    > In <fbr10p$dha$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In message <>, Roger
    >> Johnstone wrote:
    >>
    >>> It's a first generation Intel-based Mac (or 'IBM') iMac Core Duo 1.83...

    >>
    >> Actually, the PowerPC G5 processors that Apple _used_ to use were made
    >> by IBM, the current x86 processors are not.

    >
    > Intel Based Mac = I.B.M.
    >
    > It's a joke referring to the fact that Macs now use the same processors
    > as IBM PCs did.


    And yet IBM stopped making PCs long before the current generation of Intel
    processors came out.

    Ha-ha.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 8, 2007
    #16
  17. Squiggle

    Jerry Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Roger Johnstone
    > wrote:
    >
    >> In <fbr10p$dha$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>> In message <>, Roger
    >>> Johnstone wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> It's a first generation Intel-based Mac (or 'IBM') iMac Core Duo 1.83...
    >>> Actually, the PowerPC G5 processors that Apple _used_ to use were made
    >>> by IBM, the current x86 processors are not.

    >> Intel Based Mac = I.B.M.
    >>
    >> It's a joke referring to the fact that Macs now use the same processors
    >> as IBM PCs did.

    >
    > And yet IBM stopped making PCs long before the current generation of Intel
    > processors came out.
    >
    > Ha-ha.


    You are wrong again.

    IBM never stopped making PCs, and they still do. They sold the consumer
    business to Lenovo, but they still make Intel based workstations and
    servers. Google *IntelliStation*
    Jerry, Sep 8, 2007
    #17
  18. Squiggle

    Jasen Betts Guest

    On 2007-09-06, Squiggle <> wrote:
    >
    > I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits and
    > spin a few drives.
    > Coming from my previous industry where an 800 watt electric motor was
    > used for moving people around at a reasonable pace.
    >


    electric scooter? you'd get a little less than 1 bhp out of an 800w
    motor so I cant see one running anything bigger.

    > And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    > surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    > reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    > components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three
    > drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?


    think big...

    dual CPU dual GPU, peltier coolers, some sort of RAID, coolant pump, fans.


    --

    Bye.
    Jasen
    Jasen Betts, Sep 9, 2007
    #18
  19. In message <fc0i2s$6gb$-a-geek.org>, Jasen Betts wrote:

    > you'd get a little less than 1 bhp out of an 800w motor...


    Is that because of losses? Because 1bhp is 746W.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 10, 2007
    #19
  20. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Jasen Betts wrote:
    > On 2007-09-06, Squiggle <> wrote:
    >> I just find it to be an amazingly large amount of power to flip bits and
    >> spin a few drives.
    >> Coming from my previous industry where an 800 watt electric motor was
    >> used for moving people around at a reasonable pace.
    >>

    >
    > electric scooter? you'd get a little less than 1 bhp out of an 800w
    > motor so I cant see one running anything bigger.


    Something similar, and 800w is a bit over 1 hp. That was continuous
    power rating. Peak input (<10s) was up to 4kW IIRC.

    >
    >> And just how much power do graphics cards use these days?
    >> surely 150W for CPU, 250W for GPU and say 40W each for HDD is a
    >> reasonable amount? Allow another 80W for the various other system
    >> components (Mobo and RAM etc) and you get to around 600W (assuming three
    >> drives) so where is the need for the other 500W?

    >
    > think big...
    >
    > dual CPU dual GPU, peltier coolers, some sort of RAID, coolant pump, fans.
    >
    >


    Maybe 1100W with dual GPU and dual CPU and RAID, but overkill for a
    single CPU single GPU system. Hard drives only pull 30-40W on
    spin-up(10k rpm).
    Squiggle, Sep 10, 2007
    #20
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