providers and voip regulations

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by meisadick@hotmail.co.uk, May 31, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    questions for me

    Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    for me.

    I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws www.vonage.co.uk
    and www.voipfone.co.uk this limits my options unless I am repaired to
    take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    sticking to the rules for example www.gradwell.com, www.voip.co.uk,
    www.voiptalk.org, www.tescointernetphone.com, www.timico.co.uk

    I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    these new laws just be ignored?

    Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
    , May 31, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. alexd Guest

    wrote:

    > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    > questions for me
    >
    > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    > for me.
    >
    > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    > providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws www.vonage.co.uk
    > and www.voipfone.co.uk this limits my options unless I am repaired to
    > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    > sticking to the rules for example www.gradwell.com, www.voip.co.uk,
    > www.voiptalk.org, www.tescointernetphone.com, www.timico.co.uk
    >
    > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    > these new laws just be ignored?


    By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
    operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.

    > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?


    Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
    are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
    with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
    seemingly without ill effect.
    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
    09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0
    alexd, May 31, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Guest

    On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    > > questions for me

    >
    > > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    > > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    > > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    > > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    > > for me.

    >
    > > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    > > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    > > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
    > > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
    > > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    > > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
    > >www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk

    >
    > > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    > > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    > > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    > > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    > > these new laws just be ignored?

    >
    > By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
    > operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
    >
    > > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

    >
    > Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
    > are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
    > with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
    > seemingly without ill effect.
    > --
    > <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    > 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
    > 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
    new laws http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/ having
    read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
    companies that are adhering to these laws

    my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
    that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
    my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
    near future.

    also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
    laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
    so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.

    Tom
    , May 31, 2007
    #3
  4. Graham Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >> > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    >> > questions for me

    >>
    >> > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    >> > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    >> > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    >> > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    >> > for me.

    >>
    >> > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    >> > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    >> > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
    >> > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
    >> > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    >> > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
    >> >www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk

    >>
    >> > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    >> > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    >> > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    >> > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    >> > these new laws just be ignored?

    >>
    >> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
    >> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
    >>
    >> > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

    >>
    >> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
    >> regulations
    >> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
    >> complying
    >> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
    >> seemingly without ill effect.
    >> --
    >> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    >> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
    >> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
    > new laws http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/ having
    > read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
    > companies that are adhering to these laws
    >
    > my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
    > that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
    > my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
    > near future.
    >
    > also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
    > laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
    > so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.
    >
    > Tom


    The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
    cost me next to nothing to run.
    If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
    how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
    submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
    Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
    Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
    my budget providers to remain just that.

    Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
    the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
    services limitations.

    --
    Graham.
    %Profound_observation%
    Graham, May 31, 2007
    #4
  5. Guest

    On May 31, 8:38 pm, "Graham" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <> wrote:
    > >> wrote:
    > >> > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    > >> > questions for me

    >
    > >> > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    > >> > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    > >> > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    > >> > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    > >> > for me.

    >
    > >> > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    > >> > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    > >> > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
    > >> > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthislimits my options unless I am repaired to
    > >> > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    > >> > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
    > >> >www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk

    >
    > >> > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    > >> > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    > >> > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    > >> > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    > >> > these new laws just be ignored?

    >
    > >> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
    > >> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.

    >
    > >> > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

    >
    > >> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
    > >> regulations
    > >> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
    > >> complying
    > >> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
    > >> seemingly without ill effect.
    > >> --
    > >> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    > >> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
    > >> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
    > > new lawshttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/having
    > > read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
    > > companies that are adhering to these laws

    >
    > > my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
    > > that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
    > > my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
    > > near future.

    >
    > > also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
    > > laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
    > > so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.

    >
    > > Tom

    >
    > The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
    > cost me next to nothing to run.
    > If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
    > how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
    > submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
    > Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
    > Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
    > my budget providers to remain just that.
    >
    > Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
    > the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
    > services limitations.
    >
    > --
    > Graham.
    > %Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    And of course comply with the laws of the country that they wish to
    sell in otherwise what is the point in making laws that are for the
    benefit of the end user.

    As far as I'm aware the companies I mentioned in my previous posts are
    all uk companies but while I'm on the subject www.sipgate.co.uk don't
    seem to be taking any notice of the laws either.

    Ironic really when you consider that they can sell to the uk and
    provide uk numbers yet the German government won't allow German
    numbers to be sold outside of Germany because THATS THE LAW
    , May 31, 2007
    #5
  6. Brian A Guest

    On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:38:52 +0100, "Graham" <> wrote:

    >
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <> wrote:
    >>> wrote:
    >>> > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    >>> > questions for me
    >>>
    >>> > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    >>> > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    >>> > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    >>> > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    >>> > for me.
    >>>
    >>> > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    >>> > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    >>> > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
    >>> > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
    >>> > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    >>> > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
    >>> >www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk
    >>>
    >>> > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    >>> > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    >>> > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    >>> > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    >>> > these new laws just be ignored?
    >>>
    >>> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
    >>> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
    >>>
    >>> > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
    >>>
    >>> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
    >>> regulations
    >>> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
    >>> complying
    >>> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
    >>> seemingly without ill effect.
    >>> --
    >>> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    >>> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
    >>> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -
    >>>
    >>> - Show quoted text -

    >>
    >> it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
    >> new laws http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/ having
    >> read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
    >> companies that are adhering to these laws
    >>
    >> my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
    >> that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
    >> my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
    >> near future.
    >>
    >> also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
    >> laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
    >> so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.
    >>
    >> Tom

    >
    >The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
    >cost me next to nothing to run.
    >If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
    >how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
    >submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
    >Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
    >Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
    >my budget providers to remain just that.
    >
    >Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
    >the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
    >services limitations.

    voip.co.uk has always provided a 999 service, but, if I remember
    correctly, they do say that you may need to give your location.
    However, on their customer site, there is a place for entering your
    address details for the 999 service.
    Frankly, as regards people being informed about the reliability of
    voip compared to a landline, I think it is just stupid.
    Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones inform people
    that the phones won't work when the power goes off. It amounts to the
    same thing. If people can't work out that ATAs, and the like, require
    power to work then they have to be stupid - having said that I don't
    think that the majority of people are aware that their cordless phones
    won't work in a power outage. Some people say to me that they don't
    need their wired phone now they have cordless, I often have to inform
    them of the power problem.
    Fortunately, when I get a power cut, my broadband still works so I
    power all my voip stuff with a 12V battery and an 240V inverter.

    Most of the people who use voip (excluding users of Vonage and similar
    companies) are well aware of voip limitations - they set up their own
    ATAs so they are not stupid.
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

    Sign petition to get High Definition TV via Freeview.
    Ofcom want to aution off the spectrum needed for Hi Def
    TV.
    http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/High-Definition/
    Brian A, May 31, 2007
    #6
  7. Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:

    [snip]

    > Ironic really when you consider that they can sell to the
    > uk and provide uk numbers yet the German government won't
    > allow German numbers to be sold outside of Germany
    > because THATS THE LAW


    Sipgate don't sell numbers, they're free.


    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, May 31, 2007
    #7
  8. Guest

    On May 31, 5:51 pm, wrote:
    > On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > wrote:
    > > > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    > > > questions for me

    >
    > > > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    > > > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    > > > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    > > > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    > > > for me.

    >
    > > > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    > > > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    > > > providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
    > > > andwww.voipfone.co.ukthislimits my options unless I am repaired to
    > > > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    > > > sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
    > > >www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk

    >
    > > > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    > > > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    > > > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    > > > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    > > > these new laws just be ignored?

    >
    > > By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
    > > operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.

    >
    > > > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

    >
    > > Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
    > > are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
    > > with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
    > > seemingly without ill effect.
    > > --
    > > <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    > > 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
    > > 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
    > new lawshttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/having
    > read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
    > companies that are adhering to these laws
    >
    > my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
    > that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
    > my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
    > near future.
    >
    > also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
    > laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
    > so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.
    >
    > Tom- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    I looked at Sipgate because they're mentioned a lot here. They give
    out UK numbers but they seem to be German. How do they do that? Can I
    get a German number from a UK company? do they have the same laws?

    Tom
    , May 31, 2007
    #8
  9. Ivor Jones Guest

    "Brian A" <> wrote in message
    news:
    > On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:38:52 +0100, "Graham"
    > <> wrote:


    [snip]

    > > Please leave things as they are. It's horses for
    > > courses, the only thing the providers should be
    > > compelled to do is clearly set out their services
    > > limitations.

    >
    > voip.co.uk has always provided a 999 service, but, if I
    > remember correctly, they do say that you may need to give
    > your location. However, on their customer site, there is
    > a place for entering your address details for the 999
    > service.


    To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is about 999 access.
    Most people have mobiles these days, in a business environment it's highly
    unlikely that there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
    usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax over SIP, for
    example, is still somewhat problematic). This could be used for 999 calls,
    perhaps..?

    Here, my system is programmed so that any 999 calls are automatically
    routed over the BT line, it's an easy step in the setup of the Fritz!Box
    that acts as the main router/ATA.

    > Frankly, as regards people being informed about the
    > reliability of voip compared to a landline, I think it is
    > just stupid.


    People *are* stupid, you have to tell them how to do everything. Why, I
    have no idea as they rarely read the instructions..!

    > Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones
    > inform people that the phones won't work when the power
    > goes off. It amounts to the same thing. If people can't
    > work out that ATAs, and the like, require power to work
    > then they have to be stupid - having said that I don't
    > think that the majority of people are aware that their
    > cordless phones won't work in a power outage. Some people
    > say to me that they don't need their wired phone now they
    > have cordless, I often have to inform them of the power
    > problem.


    Every cordless phone I've bought has a notice in the instruction book that
    a wired phone will be required for emergency access in the event of a
    power failure. But I'm one of those rare people that actually read them,
    so I saw this ;-)

    > Fortunately, when I get a power cut, my broadband still
    > works so I power all my voip stuff with a 12V battery and
    > an 240V inverter.


    I run all my comms stuff off a UPS.

    > Most of the people who use voip (excluding users of
    > Vonage and similar companies) are well aware of voip
    > limitations - they set up their own ATAs so they are not
    > stupid.


    Some of them are, unfortunately.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, May 31, 2007
    #9
  10. Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:

    [snip]

    > I looked at Sipgate because they're mentioned a lot here.
    > They give out UK numbers but they seem to be German. How
    > do they do that?


    Because they trade in the UK.

    > Can I get a German number from a UK company? do they have the same laws?


    You can get numbers from a lot of countries from a lot of providers. I
    have US, German and UK numbers from several.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, May 31, 2007
    #10
  11. acdeag Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    > questions for me
    >
    > Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    > been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    > VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    > of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    > for me.
    >
    > I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    > on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    > providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws www.vonage.co.uk
    > and www.voipfone.co.uk this limits my options unless I am repaired to
    > take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    > sticking to the rules for example www.gradwell.com, www.voip.co.uk,
    > www.voiptalk.org, www.tescointernetphone.com, www.timico.co.uk
    >
    > I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    > the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    > regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    > regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    > these new laws just be ignored?
    >
    > Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
    >


    Unless I am missing something www.voip.co.uk have always offered 999 calls.
    acdeag, May 31, 2007
    #11
  12. Guest

    On May 31, 11:00 pm, "Ivor Jones" <> wrote:
    > "Brian A" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:
    >
    > > On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:38:52 +0100, "Graham"
    > > <> wrote:

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > > > Please leave things as they are. It's horses for
    > > > courses, the only thing the providers should be
    > > > compelled to do is clearly set out their services
    > > > limitations.

    >
    > > voip.co.uk has always provided a 999 service, but, if I
    > > remember correctly, they do say that you may need to give
    > > your location. However, on their customer site, there is
    > > a place for entering your address details for the 999
    > > service.

    >
    > To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is about 999 access.
    > Most people have mobiles these days, in a business environment it's highly
    > unlikely that there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
    > usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax over SIP, for
    > example, is still somewhat problematic). This could be used for 999 calls,
    > perhaps..?
    >
    > Here, my system is programmed so that any 999 calls are automatically
    > routed over the BT line, it's an easy step in the setup of the Fritz!Box
    > that acts as the main router/ATA.
    >
    > > Frankly, as regards people being informed about the
    > > reliability of voip compared to a landline, I think it is
    > > just stupid.

    >
    > People *are* stupid, you have to tell them how to do everything. Why, I
    > have no idea as they rarely read the instructions..!
    >
    > > Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones
    > > inform people that the phones won't work when the power
    > > goes off. It amounts to the same thing. If people can't
    > > work out that ATAs, and the like, require power to work
    > > then they have to be stupid - having said that I don't
    > > think that the majority of people are aware that their
    > > cordless phones won't work in a power outage. Some people
    > > say to me that they don't need their wired phone now they
    > > have cordless, I often have to inform them of the power
    > > problem.

    >
    > Every cordless phone I've bought has a notice in the instruction book that
    > a wired phone will be required for emergency access in the event of a
    > power failure. But I'm one of those rare people that actually read them,
    > so I saw this ;-)
    >
    > > Fortunately, when I get a power cut, my broadband still
    > > works so I power all my voip stuff with a 12V battery and
    > > an 240V inverter.

    >
    > I run all my comms stuff off a UPS.
    >
    > > Most of the people who use voip (excluding users of
    > > Vonage and similar companies) are well aware of voip
    > > limitations - they set up their own ATAs so they are not
    > > stupid.

    >
    > Some of them are, unfortunately.
    >
    > Ivor


    I think you are missing my point ivor.

    The point I am trying to make is that I'm looking for a provider that
    is law abiding and seen to be sticking to the rules.

    >From what I can see there are only two to choose from. My question is

    how can all these companies ignore what is now law? Are offcom able to
    enforce these regulations? And if so would this mean closure of any
    companies that do not comply?

    I do not want to find that in 6 months time the provider I have chosen
    has to close, I have lost my numbers, and my business is affected.

    Tom
    , May 31, 2007
    #12
  13. Herman Guest

    "Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is about 999 access.
    > Most people have mobiles these days, in a business environment it's highly
    > unlikely that there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
    > usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax over SIP, for
    > example, is still somewhat problematic). This could be used for 999 calls,
    > perhaps..?
    >
    > Here, my system is programmed so that any 999 calls are automatically
    > routed over the BT line, it's an easy step in the setup of the Fritz!Box
    > that acts as the main router/ATA.


    I *do* understand what all the fuss is about. I have previously had
    problems calling 999 on a VoIP service that is supposed to offer the service
    (voip.co.uk). Add to that a simultaneous problem with the local mobile
    phone mast...

    In my case the 3-4 minutes extra it took to find a phone that worked didn't
    make a great deal of difference. However I now have a fixed line precisely
    so that I can make 999 calls. By the way, voip.co.uk say they have now
    resolved the issue which was with one of their downstream carriers, but I
    don't want to risk that again.

    Mind you it does remind me that I don't have a corded phone in the house,
    not that that makes a great deal of difference with the FritzBox which
    provides no service in a power outage (PSTN fallover does not work).
    Herman, Jun 1, 2007
    #13
  14. wrote:
    > On 31 May, 17:32, alexd <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>> Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    >>> questions for me
    >>> Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    >>> been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    >>> VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    >>> of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    >>> for me.
    >>> I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    >>> on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    >>> providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
    >>> andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
    >>> take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    >>> sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
    >>> www.voiptalk.org,www.tescointernetphone.com,www.timico.co.uk
    >>> I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    >>> the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    >>> regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    >>> regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    >>> these new laws just be ignored?

    >> By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
    >> operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.
    >>
    >>> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

    >> Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
    >> are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
    >> with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
    >> seemingly without ill effect.
    >> --
    >> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    >> 17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
    >> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
    > new laws http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/ having
    > read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
    > companies that are adhering to these laws
    >


    how are you determining whether or not we meet OFCOM's new criteria?

    cheers
    peter
    Peter Gradwell, Jun 1, 2007
    #14
  15. Ivor Jones Guest

    "Herman" <> wrote in
    message news:8iQ7i.6061$
    > "Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is
    > > about 999 access. Most people have mobiles these days,
    > > in a business environment it's highly unlikely that
    > > there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
    > > usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax
    > > over SIP, for example, is still somewhat problematic).
    > > This could be used for 999 calls, perhaps..? Here, my system is
    > > programmed so that any 999 calls are
    > > automatically routed over the BT line, it's an easy
    > > step in the setup of the Fritz!Box that acts as the
    > > main router/ATA.

    >
    > I *do* understand what all the fuss is about. I have
    > previously had problems calling 999 on a VoIP service
    > that is supposed to offer the service (voip.co.uk). Add
    > to that a simultaneous problem with the local mobile
    > phone mast...
    > In my case the 3-4 minutes extra it took to find a phone
    > that worked didn't make a great deal of difference. However I now have a
    > fixed line precisely so that I can
    > make 999 calls. By the way, voip.co.uk say they have now
    > resolved the issue which was with one of their downstream
    > carriers, but I don't want to risk that again.


    It's too much of a pain, how do you tell them you're not at your home
    location..? With a memory like mine, I'd forget. Easier to use a mobile.

    > Mind you it does remind me that I don't have a corded
    > phone in the house, not that that makes a great deal of
    > difference with the FritzBox which provides no service in
    > a power outage (PSTN fallover does not work).


    Hmm, interesting. Never tested that, but then I have a UPS.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Jun 1, 2007
    #15
  16. Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:

    [snip]

    > I think you are missing my point ivor.
    >
    > The point I am trying to make is that I'm looking for a
    > provider that is law abiding and seen to be sticking to
    > the rules.


    These "rules" you keep mentioning, can you summarise them for me please..?
    What are they and why would a company have to close for non-compliance..?

    > > From what I can see there are only two to choose from.
    > > My question is

    > how can all these companies ignore what is now law? Are
    > offcom able to enforce these regulations? And if so would
    > this mean closure of any companies that do not comply?


    Obviously not, as they're still around..! Again, please summarise.

    > I do not want to find that in 6 months time the provider
    > I have chosen has to close, I have lost my numbers, and
    > my business is affected.


    Sipgate have been running for almost 3 years.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Jun 1, 2007
    #16
  17. Tim Guest

    Brian A wrote:
    > Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones inform people
    > that the phones won't work when the power goes off. It amounts to the
    > same thing.



    At one time, cordless phones did have warning stickers. There will
    always be somebody trying to introduce fear and a `safety case` argument
    against any new technology.

    Also, a lot of them used to have a place in the power supply to put in
    dry (not rechargeable) AA batteries to keep the base going if the power
    went off.

    Of course, now we all know that cordless phones aren't going to cause
    millions of people to die because they can't dial 999.


    Tim
    Tim, Jun 1, 2007
    #17
  18. Ivor Jones Guest

    "Tim" <> wrote in message
    news:465fff4a$0$647$
    > Brian A wrote:
    > > Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones
    > > inform people that the phones won't work when the power
    > > goes off. It amounts to the same thing.

    >
    > At one time, cordless phones did have warning stickers.
    > There will always be somebody trying to introduce fear
    > and a `safety case` argument against any new technology.


    The manuals of every cordless phone I've seen include this. Of course we
    all read the manuals, don't we ;-)

    > Also, a lot of them used to have a place in the power
    > supply to put in dry (not rechargeable) AA batteries to
    > keep the base going if the power went off.


    They still do, but they only maintain the internal memory, they don't
    allow the phone to be used during a power failure.

    > Of course, now we all know that cordless phones aren't
    > going to cause millions of people to die because they
    > can't dial 999.


    Gosh.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Jun 1, 2007
    #18
  19. Tim Guest

    Ivor Jones wrote:
    > These "rules" you keep mentioning, can you summarise them for me please..?
    > What are they and why would a company have to close for non-compliance..?


    I can't find the relevant ofcom document, even though I've read it recently.

    But it comes down to:

    1) ITSPs must provide access to 999 services. I guess that means 112 as
    well.

    2) If the customer wants it, their ITSP must provide them with a label
    for their phone that says:

    “Emergency calls may fail if you have a power cut or your broadband
    connection failsâ€


    I have a part code for a suitable label, should anybody wish to buy one
    for their phone.

    Tim
    Tim, Jun 1, 2007
    #19
  20. It's Me Guest

    "acdeag" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:WH7i.28942$...
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
    >> questions for me
    >>
    >> Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
    >> been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
    >> VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
    >> of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
    >> for me.
    >>
    >> I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
    >> on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
    >> providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws www.vonage.co.uk
    >> and www.voipfone.co.uk this limits my options unless I am repaired to
    >> take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
    >> sticking to the rules for example www.gradwell.com, www.voip.co.uk,
    >> www.voiptalk.org, www.tescointernetphone.com, www.timico.co.uk
    >>
    >> I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
    >> the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
    >> regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
    >> regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
    >> these new laws just be ignored?
    >>
    >> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
    >>

    >
    > Unless I am missing something www.voip.co.uk have always offered 999
    > calls.


    I just have set it up in my PAP2 to go to the Police when 999 is dialled, OK
    it's not the real 999 but it is the Police and it's manned 24/7 and they
    just redirect you to the real 999.

    I phoned them up to test and ask.
    It's Me, Jun 1, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Raqueeb Hassan
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    471
    Raqueeb Hassan
    May 1, 2006
  2. Wojtek
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    385
    Wojtek
    Jan 19, 2004
  3. Careers
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    356
    Bill Unruh
    Feb 2, 2004
  4. Replies:
    2
    Views:
    611
    News Reader
    Jun 2, 2007
  5. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    500
    Oldie
    May 31, 2007
Loading...

Share This Page