(Pro) Netflix story that even surprises a fan...

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by SoHillsGuy, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. SoHillsGuy

    SoHillsGuy Guest

    Okay, here's a pro-Netflix story that even surprises a supporter.

    I mailed out a movie on Saturday afternoon, and damned if I didn't
    receive its replacement today (Tuesday). Not too bad, considering the
    only days in between mailing and receiving the replacement were a
    Sunday and a postal holiday.

    Actually, I shouldn't be completely surprised, as I did receive the
    "we're received" email yesterday/Monday morning. Somehow, I guess
    Netflix did receive (and ship) mail yesterday, even though there was no
    regular mail delivery. Well, at least the local Netflix did.
     
    SoHillsGuy, Feb 22, 2005
    #1
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  2. SoHillsGuy

    Stan Brown Guest

    "SoHillsGuy" wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >Actually, I shouldn't be completely surprised, as I did receive the
    >"we're received" email yesterday/Monday morning. Somehow, I guess
    >Netflix did receive (and ship) mail yesterday, even though there was no
    >regular mail delivery. Well, at least the local Netflix did.


    Outside of small towns, many post offfices have someone working
    Sundays and holidays. Boxholder mail can be put in on those days.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com/
    DVD FAQ: http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
    other FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
     
    Stan Brown, Feb 23, 2005
    #2
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  3. SoHillsGuy

    Guest

    Quite right. I have a PO Box at the main post office of a town of
    150,000 people. I get mail 7 days a week. It's awesome. Now if only
    we had a local Netflix center, I'd be in heaven. Also, if they worked
    Saturdays.

    -beaumon
     
    , Feb 23, 2005
    #3
  4. SoHillsGuy

    theyak Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Quite right. I have a PO Box at the main post office of a town of
    > 150,000 people. I get mail 7 days a week. It's awesome. Now if only
    > we had a local Netflix center, I'd be in heaven. Also, if they worked
    > Saturdays.
    >
    > -beaumon
    >
    >



    If you had a local netflix center you'd recieve less movies per month.
    The shorter your shipping times, the more money you cost them in
    postage, and so the more "undesirable" you become as a customer.
     
    theyak, Feb 23, 2005
    #4
  5. SoHillsGuy

    Tarkus Guest

    On 2/23/2005 6:45:48 AM, theyak wrote:

    > If you had a local netflix center you'd recieve less movies per month.
    > The shorter your shipping times, the more money you cost them in
    > postage, and so the more "undesirable" you become as a customer.


    I have a local center and my turnaround times are typically three days.
    If I send a disc in on Monday, they get it on Tuesday and ship me the
    replacement that day, and I receive it on Wednesday. Occasionally,
    they'll ship the next day, making my turnaround time four days max.

    Of course, if you're renting an obscure title, it may have to come from
    another distribution center, which could add a day or two to shipping.

    YMMV, depending on your local distribution center. They're not all
    created equally, and some are more heavily taxed than others.
    --
    "It Mu5t Be Found."

    Now playing: "Uriah Heep - Circle of Hands"
     
    Tarkus, Feb 23, 2005
    #5
  6. In article <g8ccb956den8$9.com>,
    Tarkus <> wrote:

    > On 2/23/2005 6:45:48 AM, theyak wrote:
    >
    > > If you had a local netflix center you'd recieve less movies per month.
    > > The shorter your shipping times, the more money you cost them in
    > > postage, and so the more "undesirable" you become as a customer.

    >
    > I have a local center and my turnaround times are typically three days.
    > If I send a disc in on Monday, they get it on Tuesday and ship me the
    > replacement that day, and I receive it on Wednesday. Occasionally,
    > they'll ship the next day, making my turnaround time four days max.
    >
    > Of course, if you're renting an obscure title, it may have to come from
    > another distribution center, which could add a day or two to shipping.
    >
    > YMMV, depending on your local distribution center. They're not all
    > created equally, and some are more heavily taxed than others.


    No, really! It's all been scientifically proven and it affects EVERY
    account. There's no disputing it. :)
     
    Reginald Dwight, Feb 23, 2005
    #6
  7. SoHillsGuy

    theyak Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > In article <g8ccb956den8$9.com>,
    > Tarkus <> wrote:
    >
    > > On 2/23/2005 6:45:48 AM, theyak wrote:
    > >
    > > > If you had a local netflix center you'd recieve less movies per month.
    > > > The shorter your shipping times, the more money you cost them in
    > > > postage, and so the more "undesirable" you become as a customer.

    > >
    > > I have a local center and my turnaround times are typically three days.
    > > If I send a disc in on Monday, they get it on Tuesday and ship me the
    > > replacement that day, and I receive it on Wednesday. Occasionally,
    > > they'll ship the next day, making my turnaround time four days max.
    > >
    > > Of course, if you're renting an obscure title, it may have to come from
    > > another distribution center, which could add a day or two to shipping.
    > >
    > > YMMV, depending on your local distribution center. They're not all
    > > created equally, and some are more heavily taxed than others.

    >
    > No, really! It's all been scientifically proven and it affects EVERY
    > account. There's no disputing it. :)
    >



    Yep, Netflix employee, it does.

    From http://www.manuelsweb.com/netflix.htm

    "Rent As Many DVDs As You Want*" Netflix Legal Disclaimer

    A frustrated Netflix customer e-mailed me that he called 3 different
    lawyers and all refused to take up his case because of the online
    agreement Netflix has.

    Delivery and Return of Rented DVDs
    We reserve the right to allocate and ship DVDs to you in any manner that
    we, in our sole and absolute discretion, determine.

    In determining priority for shipping and inventory allocation, we give
    priority to those members who receive the fewest DVDs through our
    service.

    Basically, this says they don't have to ship you any rentals and makes
    them impervious to any law suits regarding service. It also says
    they'll slow down your service if you rent too many movies.

    Oh, Netflix also says by becoming a subscriber you can't sue them
    unless you do so on their home turf and on their terms.

    Disputes
    You and Netflix agree that the United States District Court for the
    Northern District of California and/or the California Superior Court for
    the County of Santa Clara shall have exclusive jurisdiction over any
    dispute between you and Netflix relating in any way to the Netflix
    service or Web site or these Terms of Use. You and Netflix expressly and
    irrevocably consent to personal jurisdiction and venue in these courts.
     
    theyak, Feb 23, 2005
    #7
  8. In article <>,
    theyak <> wrote:

    > From http://www.manuelsweb.com/netflix.htm


    Anecdotal. But you knew that. Just can't fathom it.

    BTW, thought you were done with me. Ahaahahahahaha...
     
    Reginald Dwight, Feb 24, 2005
    #8
  9. SoHillsGuy

    Tarkus Guest

    On 2/23/2005 1:28:31 PM, theyak wrote:

    > Delivery and Return of Rented DVDs
    > We reserve the right to allocate and ship DVDs to you in any manner that
    > we, in our sole and absolute discretion, determine.
    >
    > In determining priority for shipping and inventory allocation, we give
    > priority to those members who receive the fewest DVDs through our
    > service.
    >
    > Basically, this says they don't have to ship you any rentals and makes
    > them impervious to any law suits regarding service. It also says
    > they'll slow down your service if you rent too many movies.


    You have an odd grasp of the English language. What they're saying is
    that they'll give slow renters first choice of titles. Nowhere does it
    say they'll slow down your service for renting too much.

    > Oh, Netflix also says by becoming a subscriber you can't sue them
    > unless you do so on their home turf and on their terms.


    Irrelevant. They can't disclaim their way out of the law. That's just a
    scare tactic.
    --
    "You tried your best and you failed miserably.
    The lesson is, never try."

    Now playing: "Uriah Heep - Circle of Hands"
     
    Tarkus, Feb 24, 2005
    #9
  10. SoHillsGuy

    theyak Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > In article <>,
    > theyak <> wrote:
    >
    > > From http://www.manuelsweb.com/netflix.htm

    >
    > Anecdotal. But you knew that. Just can't fathom it.
    >
    > BTW, thought you were done with me. Ahaahahahahaha...
    >



    Ignored the thread, not the poster. But after looking you up on google
    groups, I should.
     
    theyak, Feb 24, 2005
    #10
  11. SoHillsGuy

    Stan Brown Guest

    "Tarkus" wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >On 2/23/2005 1:28:31 PM, theyak wrote:
    >[quoting Netflix]
    >> In determining priority for shipping and inventory allocation, we give
    >> priority to those members who receive the fewest DVDs through our
    >> service.
    >>
    >> It also says
    >> they'll slow down your service if you rent too many movies.


    >You have an odd grasp of the English language. What they're saying is
    >that they'll give slow renters first choice of titles. Nowhere does it
    >say they'll slow down your service for renting too much.


    Sorry, but it's you who have trouble with the language. If they
    give better service to people who rent fewer DVDs, then by
    definition they give poorer service to people who rent more.

    Note that they do NOT say "when two people request the same title".
    They say that people who rent fewer DVDs get better service.

    >> Oh, Netflix also says by becoming a subscriber you can't sue them
    >> unless you do so on their home turf and on their terms.

    >
    >Irrelevant. They can't disclaim their way out of the law. That's just a
    >scare tactic.


    This sort of clause is standard in contracts, and it's almost
    always valid. It is not "disclaiming their way out of the law" --
    most big corporations that do business with the public make it a
    condition of doing business with them tht you agree to sue them
    only in their home state.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com/
    DVD FAQ: http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
    other FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
     
    Stan Brown, Feb 24, 2005
    #11
  12. In article <>,
    theyak <> wrote:

    > Ignored the thread, not the poster. But after looking you up on google
    > groups, I should.


    LOL! Look who's talking. Did mommy wash your mouth out with soap or can
    we expect another diatribe laced with your colorful language?
     
    Reginald Dwight, Feb 24, 2005
    #12
  13. SoHillsGuy

    Tarkus Guest

    On 2/24/2005 8:28:26 AM, Stan Brown wrote:

    > Sorry, but it's you who have trouble with the language. If they
    > give better service to people who rent fewer DVDs, then by
    > definition they give poorer service to people who rent more.
    >
    > Note that they do NOT say "when two people request the same title".
    > They say that people who rent fewer DVDs get better service.


    What they say is they get preferential treatment, which logically means
    they get first choice on titles. And my own personal experience supports
    that very theory. Anecdotal to be sure, but so is every other claim to
    the contrary.

    > This sort of clause is standard in contracts, and it's almost
    > always valid. It is not "disclaiming their way out of the law" --
    > most big corporations that do business with the public make it a
    > condition of doing business with them tht you agree to sue them
    > only in their home state.


    Sports teams all the time put stuff on the back of tickets saying they're
    not responsible for this and that, and yet they often lose court cases
    for this and that. Disclaimers do NOT supersede law. They're designed
    to discourage lawsuits, not prevent them.

    Hey, if you don't think Netflix is worth the money, don't use them. I
    would never for a second tell you to do any different. They're a good
    value for me, but YMMV.
    --
    "When a woman says nothing's wrong, everything's wrong. When a woman
    says everything's wrong, *everything's* wrong. And when a woman says
    *everything's* wrong, you'd better not laugh your ass off!"

    Now playing: "Uriah Heep - Rock 'n' Roll Medley"
     
    Tarkus, Feb 25, 2005
    #13
  14. SoHillsGuy

    Anoni Moose Guest

    Stan Brown wrote:

    > Sorry, but it's you who have trouble with the language. If they
    > give better service to people who rent fewer DVDs, then by
    > definition they give poorer service to people who rent more.


    If one were picky, that'd not really be true. It only *potentially*
    provides poorer service to people who rent more. What it really
    said is that those who rent fewer discs get first dibs, so to speak.
    However it may be that someone else with second-dibs always gets
    theirs too because there isn't a shortage of resource. So there would
    be no difference. What you say in this context depends on there being
    a shortage of resources to fulfill both classes of users, and that's
    not a guaranteed given. Something probably true, but not certain
    "by definition".

    I suspect their software tries to limit rentals to the point where
    they're breaking even on postage/envelopes vs payment to them (which
    is to say, they'd be losing money slightly when counting overhead.

    I personally prefer that they'd maybe up their prices a little to
    make sure they sustain profitabilty and to finance capital costs
    related to increasing their title 'count' with sufficient numbers
    of discs per title to not yield 'very long wait' status (which several
    in my list have).

    Mike
     
    Anoni Moose, Feb 26, 2005
    #14
  15. SoHillsGuy

    John Guest

    Does anyone know exceeding what number of rentals per month makes you
    a frequent renter subject to a potentially slower turnaround? Is there
    an optimum number of rentals per month in the $17.99 3-out program
    that doesn't put you on the frequent renter list but is better than 12
    rentals per month?

    I've read that if you cancel service and re-subscribe, that you get
    faster service for a while until they re-establish you as a frequent
    renter. Is that true?

    I've never tried Netflix but was considering starting it to rent a few
    dozen old catalog titles I can't find locally. I'd probably stop
    service after that because I don't have time to keep up with new
    releases. Would Blockbuster's online service be better for this?

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:28:31 GMT, theyak <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    >
    >From http://www.manuelsweb.com/netflix.htm
    >
    >"Rent As Many DVDs As You Want*" Netflix Legal Disclaimer
    >
    >A frustrated Netflix customer e-mailed me that he called 3 different
    >lawyers and all refused to take up his case because of the online
    >agreement Netflix has.
    >
    >Delivery and Return of Rented DVDs
    >We reserve the right to allocate and ship DVDs to you in any manner that
    >we, in our sole and absolute discretion, determine.
    >
    >In determining priority for shipping and inventory allocation, we give
    >priority to those members who receive the fewest DVDs through our
    >service.
    >
    >Basically, this says they don't have to ship you any rentals and makes
    >them impervious to any law suits regarding service. It also says
    >they'll slow down your service if you rent too many movies.
    >
    >Oh, Netflix also says by becoming a subscriber you can't sue them
    >unless you do so on their home turf and on their terms.
    >
    >Disputes
    >You and Netflix agree that the United States District Court for the
    >Northern District of California and/or the California Superior Court for
    >the County of Santa Clara shall have exclusive jurisdiction over any
    >dispute between you and Netflix relating in any way to the Netflix
    >service or Web site or these Terms of Use. You and Netflix expressly and
    >irrevocably consent to personal jurisdiction and venue in these courts.
     
    John, Feb 28, 2005
    #15
  16. SoHillsGuy

    Anoni Moose Guest

    John wrote:
    > Does anyone know exceeding what number of rentals per month makes you
    > a frequent renter subject to a potentially slower turnaround? Is

    there
    > an optimum number of rentals per month in the $17.99 3-out program
    > that doesn't put you on the frequent renter list but is better than

    12
    > rentals per month?


    We've the 5-out plan ($30/month). I think our record month had maybe
    34-disk rentals or so. The $30 probably just covered the postage both
    ways
    and the printing of the envelopes that month. :)

    So I'd guess a 'slowdown' is to the point of getting a disk per dollar
    paid, per month. So my guess would be the 3-out program would try
    and limit one to maybe 18~20 discs per month.

    I think the "slowdown problem" is maybe overstated a bit. It's the
    adding of an extra one day (sending next set the day after receiving
    the previous -- rather than sending out on the same day received, which
    they often do, do). Plus some come from cross-country and the mail
    takes
    longer.

    Mike
     
    Anoni Moose, Feb 28, 2005
    #16
  17. SoHillsGuy

    theyak Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > John wrote:
    > > Does anyone know exceeding what number of rentals per month makes you
    > > a frequent renter subject to a potentially slower turnaround? Is

    > there
    > > an optimum number of rentals per month in the $17.99 3-out program
    > > that doesn't put you on the frequent renter list but is better than

    > 12
    > > rentals per month?

    >
    > We've the 5-out plan ($30/month). I think our record month had maybe
    > 34-disk rentals or so. The $30 probably just covered the postage both
    > ways
    > and the printing of the envelopes that month. :)
    >
    > So I'd guess a 'slowdown' is to the point of getting a disk per dollar
    > paid, per month. So my guess would be the 3-out program would try
    > and limit one to maybe 18~20 discs per month.
    >
    > I think the "slowdown problem" is maybe overstated a bit. It's the
    > adding of an extra one day (sending next set the day after receiving
    > the previous -- rather than sending out on the same day received, which
    > they often do, do). Plus some come from cross-country and the mail
    > takes
    > longer.
    >
    > Mike
    >
    >



    Mail has absolutely nothing to do with it. My Netflix discs used to come
    and go back to DFW (2 days). Now they've opened a center where mail
    takes one day to reach it's destination. And now, amazingly, it takes
    the dvds a day longer (3 days) to go 50 miles than it took to go 250.
     
    theyak, Mar 1, 2005
    #17
  18. SoHillsGuy

    Anoni Moose Guest

    theyak wrote:

    > Mail has absolutely nothing to do with it.


    Of course it does. It comes by mail. It's fair
    to say that UPS and Fedex times have nothing to do
    with it.

    When I mailed a package recently (I'm near
    Portland Oregon), one went to Salem, Oregon.
    Maybe 50 miles away. Told the counter guy that
    the cheap-fee way (not Priority mail) should be
    fine, it's not going far. He said that it really
    goes from here to Seattle (the opposite direction of
    Salem, and a lot further) first to be sorted, and then
    comes back (passing through Portland) on it's way to
    Salem.

    When I once had a package from Fedex sent to me from
    the Boston (Mass) area, I tracked it using online
    tracking. It arrived in Portland the afternoon before
    the day it was due to be delivered. It had to transfer
    from the Portland office to the Tualatin one (Portland
    suburb). It went those 15 miles through Memphis, Tenn.
    overnight. And it arrived on time. But.....

    Point being being xxx miles away may have nothing to do
    with how far it travels from there to there and Netflix
    has nothing to do with the path it takes.

    Further, I'm certain that 100% of my netflix disks do NOT
    come from the nearest netflix center (although they
    all get returned there). There are inter-region flows
    to balance where the inventory is and where the demand is.

    Mike


    > My Netflix discs used to come
    > and go back to DFW (2 days). Now they've opened a center where mail
    > takes one day to reach it's destination. And now, amazingly, it takes


    > the dvds a day longer (3 days) to go 50 miles than it took to go 250.
     
    Anoni Moose, Mar 1, 2005
    #18
  19. SoHillsGuy

    theyak Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > theyak wrote:
    >
    > > Mail has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    >
    > Of course it does. It comes by mail. It's fair
    > to say that UPS and Fedex times have nothing to do
    > with it.
    >
    > When I mailed a package recently (I'm near
    > Portland Oregon), one went to Salem, Oregon.
    > Maybe 50 miles away. Told the counter guy that
    > the cheap-fee way (not Priority mail) should be
    > fine, it's not going far. He said that it really
    > goes from here to Seattle (the opposite direction of
    > Salem, and a lot further) first to be sorted, and then
    > comes back (passing through Portland) on it's way to
    > Salem.
    >
    > When I once had a package from Fedex sent to me from
    > the Boston (Mass) area, I tracked it using online
    > tracking. It arrived in Portland the afternoon before
    > the day it was due to be delivered. It had to transfer
    > from the Portland office to the Tualatin one (Portland
    > suburb). It went those 15 miles through Memphis, Tenn.
    > overnight. And it arrived on time. But.....
    >
    > Point being being xxx miles away may have nothing to do
    > with how far it travels from there to there and Netflix
    > has nothing to do with the path it takes.


    All the mail in this area goes to the same damn building where the
    netflix po box is. It all gets sorted in the same place. It's wheeled
    over and stuck in a hole in the wall. That's the extent of my dvd's
    travel once it hits the post office. Yet it takes 2 days for netflix to
    check their mail. Yea, right. Netflix uses the post office as their
    scapegoat.

    >
    > Further, I'm certain that 100% of my netflix disks do NOT
    > come from the nearest netflix center (although they
    > all get returned there). There are inter-region flows
    > to balance where the inventory is and where the demand is.
    >
    > Mike
    >


    Irrelevant.

    >
    > > My Netflix discs used to come
    > > and go back to DFW (2 days). Now they've opened a center where mail
    > > takes one day to reach it's destination. And now, amazingly, it takes

    >
    > > the dvds a day longer (3 days) to go 50 miles than it took to go 250.

    >
    >
     
    theyak, Mar 1, 2005
    #19
  20. SoHillsGuy

    Anoni Moose Guest

    theyak wrote:


    > > Point being being xxx miles away may have nothing to do
    > > with how far it travels from there to there and Netflix
    > > has nothing to do with the path it takes.

    >
    > All the mail in this area goes to the same damn building where the
    > netflix po box is. It all gets sorted in the same place. It's wheeled



    Mail gets sorted on every level just as email gets routed ("sorted") at
    every router it passes through from source to destination (which may be
    quite a few). So certainly it gets sorted there. Question is, where
    do they route them after the sort?

    As in my Fedex example, it may get sent 100 miles away then back
    to the same post office on it's way to or from you. They probably
    are using the same distribution techniques. You're assuming that
    two users of the same post office would avoid having the mail go
    somewhere else inbetween. A poor assumption I think. I've already
    shown how that doesn't happen in at least some instances.

    > over and stuck in a hole in the wall. That's the extent of my dvd's
    > travel once it hits the post office. Yet it takes 2 days for netflix

    to
    > check their mail. Yea, right. Netflix uses the post office as their
    > scapegoat.


    What do you mean by scapegoat? They explicitly say that they may
    slow down those who rent a lot during the month
    (key word is "may" which means not always).

    > > Further, I'm certain that 100% of my netflix disks do NOT
    > > come from the nearest netflix center (although they
    > > all get returned there). There are inter-region flows
    > > to balance where the inventory is and where the demand is.
    > >
    > > Mike
    > >

    >
    > Irrelevant.


    A DVD coming across country isn't relevant to how long a DVD
    takes to get to you? I don't think so. Makes little practical
    difference where an email is sent from, but a physical DVD disk
    takes maybe 3~4 days longer to get to me from Florida as compared
    to Oregon. I consider that a significant difference in mail delivery
    time.

    I also find that they don't always seem to process all their mail
    every day, especially Mondays where they've multiple days worth
    of mailing backed up. However it does seem that they will
    process dvd's mailed on friday before ones mailed on Saturday or
    Sunday.

    The couple they received today (from my mailing them yesterday) are
    going to
    have their replacements mailed out tomorrow (where sometimes they'll
    mail
    them out the same day). They're slowing me (my wife mostly) down
    a little. Which is fine, we get more than our money's worth from them.
    We usually have nearly 200 on our queue. :)

    In practice (over maybe a year or so), we've paid much less per disk
    of rental than we did going to rental stores prior to that (mostly
    Blockbuster, using their "bonus" sort of program) -- plus our selection

    choice has been much greater.

    If you find going to Blockbuster stores cheaper per disk due to
    Netflix's
    processing of your discs unsatisfactorily (no matter who you think
    they blame), perhaps you should go back to the rental stores. At
    very least to calm your karma.

    Mike

    P.S. - I do notice that once in a great while, the time for a DVD I
    sent
    to them takes more than the single day it usually does. Once or

    twice I think it took five or six days! However, this also
    happens
    once in a great while when I send packages or letters to
    relatives
    that usually only takes two days. One common problem, I
    understand,
    is if the zip code gets misread. It'll get sorted and sent
    cross
    country where they'll then read it right and route it back
    again.
    I once was upset with an ebay seller because he lived only 120
    miles
    from me, but it had been a week and a half since he said he had
    mailed
    it to me via first-class mail. I didn't belive him until it
    arrived
    with a postmark matching his claimed mailing date!
     
    Anoni Moose, Mar 2, 2005
    #20
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