Price of PCs as Vista nears?

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by - Bobb -, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. - Bobb -

    - Bobb - Guest

    I'm in the market for a replacement laptop and I'm thinking that as
    release date gets closer ( especially around winter holiday time) that
    XP PC's will be VERY low in price to clear the shelves for Vista PC's .
    Come the Vista release, those pc's are boat anchors for retailers:
    especially Dell with their Intel only platform. I know they only build
    to order, but they ( and others) need to be selling SOMETHING for those
    last few months. So they'll have deals and others will match - esecially
    on NON Vista capable PCs, and that Nov/Dec will see some super deals for
    folks that DON'T need Vista. I can't imagine that someone that DOES want
    Vista is going to buy a PC in November and then wait for Vista to hit
    the store shelves ( will it be there in January ? February?) and THEN
    pay $200 for it, bring it home, try to get drivers, then format his
    drive (that he has used for 2 months) and start the install of Vista,
    his apps etc. It would/will be a disaster ( and void the warranty ?) SO
    they'll be a time when it will be tough to sell a PC with XP. I know
    the manufacturers COULD just take them back to clear the shelves, but I
    think that some buyers will buy the older technology at a good discount.
    I think especially the 32 bit boxes will be very cheap and Pc's that are
    NOT Vista capable. So, to bring it back to my reason for this ... I'm
    looking for a deal to get the higher requirements -video, 1gb of memory,
    etc included and most notebooks DON'T currently have that unless
    ordered from factory. Do you think I should wait and maybe get a beefier
    notebook offer - to make it Vista capable - even though I'd just use XP
    ?

    Your thoughts - will we see great deals before/after Thanksgiving this
    year ? on only low-end 32 bit PC's ? Or across the entire line ?

    Bobb
    - Bobb -, Jul 11, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are Vista
    Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm are the
    predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual core
    cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.

    "- Bobb -" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'm in the market for a replacement laptop and I'm thinking that as
    > release date gets closer ( especially around winter holiday time) that XP
    > PC's will be VERY low in price to clear the shelves for Vista PC's . Come
    > the Vista release, those pc's are boat anchors for retailers: especially
    > Dell with their Intel only platform. I know they only build to order, but
    > they ( and others) need to be selling SOMETHING for those last few months.
    > So they'll have deals and others will match - esecially on NON Vista
    > capable PCs, and that Nov/Dec will see some super deals for folks that
    > DON'T need Vista. I can't imagine that someone that DOES want Vista is
    > going to buy a PC in November and then wait for Vista to hit the store
    > shelves ( will it be there in January ? February?) and THEN pay $200 for
    > it, bring it home, try to get drivers, then format his drive (that he has
    > used for 2 months) and start the install of Vista, his apps etc. It
    > would/will be a disaster ( and void the warranty ?) SO they'll be a time
    > when it will be tough to sell a PC with XP. I know the manufacturers
    > COULD just take them back to clear the shelves, but I think that some
    > buyers will buy the older technology at a good discount. I think
    > especially the 32 bit boxes will be very cheap and Pc's that are NOT Vista
    > capable. So, to bring it back to my reason for this ... I'm looking for a
    > deal to get the higher requirements -video, 1gb of memory, etc included
    > and most notebooks DON'T currently have that unless ordered from factory.
    > Do you think I should wait and maybe get a beefier notebook offer - to
    > make it Vista capable - even though I'd just use XP ?
    >
    > Your thoughts - will we see great deals before/after Thanksgiving this
    > year ? on only low-end 32 bit PC's ? Or across the entire line ?
    >
    > Bobb
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 11, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. - Bobb -

    null2006 Guest

    I don't think he's disputing that the current batch of PCs available are
    Vista-capable. He's just saying that as its release gets near, the Dells of the
    world will be offering deals so buyers aren't holding onto their cash over the
    holiday buying season in anticipation of Vista. Makes sense to me.

    Colin Barnhorst wrote:

    > The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are Vista
    > Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm are the
    > predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual core
    > cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.
    null2006, Jul 11, 2006
    #3
  4. I have heard and read rumours that some manufacturers may ship their "Vista
    Ready" systems with an upgrade to Vista certificate as a way to urge
    purchasing before Vista hits RTM, but, that's just a rumour, isn't it?

    And Bobb's logic seems sound enough; the problem is, often times sound logic
    doesn't apply to retail distribution of computer systems...

    --
    Mark

    Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!

    "null2006" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I don't think he's disputing that the current batch of PCs available are
    > Vista-capable. He's just saying that as its release gets near, the Dells
    > of the
    > world will be offering deals so buyers aren't holding onto their cash over
    > the
    > holiday buying season in anticipation of Vista. Makes sense to me.
    >
    > Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    >
    >> The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are Vista
    >> Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm are
    >> the
    >> predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual core
    >> cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.

    >
    Mark D. VandenBerg, Jul 11, 2006
    #4
  5. - Bobb -

    Tom Lake Guest

    "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have heard and read rumours that some manufacturers may ship their "Vista
    >Ready" systems with an upgrade to Vista certificate as a way to urge
    >purchasing before Vista hits RTM, but, that's just a rumour, isn't it?


    It could be true. When XP was due to be released, Gateway sold their PCs
    with a $15.00 coupon to upgrade from Win 98/ME to XP.

    Tom Lake
    Tom Lake, Jul 11, 2006
    #5
  6. - Bobb -

    Travis King Guest

    The very cheapest computers in the adds still come with only 256MB of RAM.
    (The $300 range after rebates.) Now much above that does have 512MB, and
    around the $600 range you'll start to see ones that come with a gig. Get up
    closer to $1000 and you'll see 2 gigs.
    "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are Vista
    > Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm are the
    > predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual core
    > cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.
    >
    > "- Bobb -" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I'm in the market for a replacement laptop and I'm thinking that as
    >> release date gets closer ( especially around winter holiday time) that XP
    >> PC's will be VERY low in price to clear the shelves for Vista PC's . Come
    >> the Vista release, those pc's are boat anchors for retailers: especially
    >> Dell with their Intel only platform. I know they only build to order, but
    >> they ( and others) need to be selling SOMETHING for those last few
    >> months. So they'll have deals and others will match - esecially on NON
    >> Vista capable PCs, and that Nov/Dec will see some super deals for folks
    >> that DON'T need Vista. I can't imagine that someone that DOES want Vista
    >> is going to buy a PC in November and then wait for Vista to hit the store
    >> shelves ( will it be there in January ? February?) and THEN pay $200 for
    >> it, bring it home, try to get drivers, then format his drive (that he has
    >> used for 2 months) and start the install of Vista, his apps etc. It
    >> would/will be a disaster ( and void the warranty ?) SO they'll be a time
    >> when it will be tough to sell a PC with XP. I know the manufacturers
    >> COULD just take them back to clear the shelves, but I think that some
    >> buyers will buy the older technology at a good discount. I think
    >> especially the 32 bit boxes will be very cheap and Pc's that are NOT
    >> Vista capable. So, to bring it back to my reason for this ... I'm
    >> looking for a deal to get the higher requirements -video, 1gb of memory,
    >> etc included and most notebooks DON'T currently have that unless ordered
    >> from factory. Do you think I should wait and maybe get a beefier notebook
    >> offer - to make it Vista capable - even though I'd just use XP ?
    >>
    >> Your thoughts - will we see great deals before/after Thanksgiving this
    >> year ? on only low-end 32 bit PC's ? Or across the entire line ?
    >>
    >> Bobb

    >
    >
    Travis King, Jul 11, 2006
    #6
  7. That was the case when XP was due. I got a laptop with ME and a coupon for
    a free upgrade to XP Home. It was in fact an upgraded recovery cd. It was
    not an XP cd but it did upgrade my system so that I didn't have to do a
    clean install. As it turned out, upgrading from ME to XP did not produce a
    stable system and I wound up having to buy XP and reinstalling myself
    because the provided upgrade cd was no help.

    "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have heard and read rumours that some manufacturers may ship their "Vista
    >Ready" systems with an upgrade to Vista certificate as a way to urge
    >purchasing before Vista hits RTM, but, that's just a rumour, isn't it?
    >
    > And Bobb's logic seems sound enough; the problem is, often times sound
    > logic doesn't apply to retail distribution of computer systems...
    >
    > --
    > Mark
    >
    > Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!
    >
    > "null2006" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>I don't think he's disputing that the current batch of PCs available are
    >> Vista-capable. He's just saying that as its release gets near, the Dells
    >> of the
    >> world will be offering deals so buyers aren't holding onto their cash
    >> over the
    >> holiday buying season in anticipation of Vista. Makes sense to me.
    >>
    >> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    >>
    >>> The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are
    >>> Vista
    >>> Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm are
    >>> the
    >>> predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual core
    >>> cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.

    >>

    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 11, 2006
    #7
  8. But, of course, we are talking about six months from now, not today.

    "Travis King" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The very cheapest computers in the adds still come with only 256MB of RAM.
    > (The $300 range after rebates.) Now much above that does have 512MB, and
    > around the $600 range you'll start to see ones that come with a gig. Get
    > up closer to $1000 and you'll see 2 gigs.
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are Vista
    >> Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm are
    >> the predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual
    >> core cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.
    >>
    >> "- Bobb -" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I'm in the market for a replacement laptop and I'm thinking that as
    >>> release date gets closer ( especially around winter holiday time) that
    >>> XP PC's will be VERY low in price to clear the shelves for Vista PC's .
    >>> Come the Vista release, those pc's are boat anchors for retailers:
    >>> especially Dell with their Intel only platform. I know they only build
    >>> to order, but they ( and others) need to be selling SOMETHING for those
    >>> last few months. So they'll have deals and others will match - esecially
    >>> on NON Vista capable PCs, and that Nov/Dec will see some super deals for
    >>> folks that DON'T need Vista. I can't imagine that someone that DOES want
    >>> Vista is going to buy a PC in November and then wait for Vista to hit
    >>> the store shelves ( will it be there in January ? February?) and THEN
    >>> pay $200 for it, bring it home, try to get drivers, then format his
    >>> drive (that he has used for 2 months) and start the install of Vista,
    >>> his apps etc. It would/will be a disaster ( and void the warranty ?) SO
    >>> they'll be a time when it will be tough to sell a PC with XP. I know
    >>> the manufacturers COULD just take them back to clear the shelves, but I
    >>> think that some buyers will buy the older technology at a good discount.
    >>> I think especially the 32 bit boxes will be very cheap and Pc's that are
    >>> NOT Vista capable. So, to bring it back to my reason for this ... I'm
    >>> looking for a deal to get the higher requirements -video, 1gb of memory,
    >>> etc included and most notebooks DON'T currently have that unless
    >>> ordered from factory. Do you think I should wait and maybe get a beefier
    >>> notebook offer - to make it Vista capable - even though I'd just use XP
    >>> ?
    >>>
    >>> Your thoughts - will we see great deals before/after Thanksgiving this
    >>> year ? on only low-end 32 bit PC's ? Or across the entire line ?
    >>>
    >>> Bobb

    >>
    >>

    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 11, 2006
    #8
  9. Why is it that every time I see "Windows ME" I always see the word
    "unstable" in close proximity?

    Like I said, only a rumour, but one that may have some historical, albeit
    anecdotal, basis.

    --
    Mark

    Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!

    "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > That was the case when XP was due. I got a laptop with ME and a coupon
    > for a free upgrade to XP Home. It was in fact an upgraded recovery cd.
    > It was not an XP cd but it did upgrade my system so that I didn't have to
    > do a clean install. As it turned out, upgrading from ME to XP did not
    > produce a stable system and I wound up having to buy XP and reinstalling
    > myself because the provided upgrade cd was no help.
    Mark D. VandenBerg, Jul 11, 2006
    #9
  10. - Bobb -

    dotcom Guest

    Dell has indeed done that in the past.
    dotcom

    "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have heard and read rumours that some manufacturers may ship their "Vista
    >Ready" systems with an upgrade to Vista certificate as a way to urge
    >purchasing before Vista hits RTM, but, that's just a rumour, isn't it?
    >
    > And Bobb's logic seems sound enough; the problem is, often times sound
    > logic doesn't apply to retail distribution of computer systems...
    >
    > --
    > Mark
    >
    > Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!
    >
    > "null2006" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>I don't think he's disputing that the current batch of PCs available are
    >> Vista-capable. He's just saying that as its release gets near, the Dells
    >> of the
    >> world will be offering deals so buyers aren't holding onto their cash
    >> over the
    >> holiday buying season in anticipation of Vista. Makes sense to me.
    >>
    >> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    >>
    >>> The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are
    >>> Vista
    >>> Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm are
    >>> the
    >>> predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual core
    >>> cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.

    >>

    >
    dotcom, Jul 11, 2006
    #10
  11. I think you can count on most pc's sold for the Christmas season having an
    upgrade coupon for Vista Home Basic or Premium (for Media Center systems).

    "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Why is it that every time I see "Windows ME" I always see the word
    > "unstable" in close proximity?
    >
    > Like I said, only a rumour, but one that may have some historical, albeit
    > anecdotal, basis.
    >
    > --
    > Mark
    >
    > Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!
    >
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> That was the case when XP was due. I got a laptop with ME and a coupon
    >> for a free upgrade to XP Home. It was in fact an upgraded recovery cd.
    >> It was not an XP cd but it did upgrade my system so that I didn't have to
    >> do a clean install. As it turned out, upgrading from ME to XP did not
    >> produce a stable system and I wound up having to buy XP and reinstalling
    >> myself because the provided upgrade cd was no help.

    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 11, 2006
    #11
  12. - Bobb -

    - Bobb - Guest

    I thought I read that there would be no upgrade path to Vista - only
    clean installs from OEM's ( Like MediaPlayer) . But even if they DO
    offer an upgrade, everyone who buys a Vista Capable Pc would have to
    wipe it ?? After having used it for X months ? and then reinstall all
    apps ? What about if you bought it with .. Money/Office etc
    preinstalled. For techy folks not a big deal - for the folks that are
    "just buying a new PC" and not techy, do you think they'd go thru that
    ? - or even know how? OR just wait 30-60 days to get one that is already
    setup with Vista ? I think they'd wait and meanwhile the inventory
    builds up at the retail sellers of HP/Compaqs/Gateways of the world.

    The business world I don't think it matters at all. Even though they'll
    get it first, with an IT dept, they're gonna buy thru the distributors
    and build an image ( whether XP or Vista, but probably XP until SP1 or
    SP2 of Vista).

    "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have heard and read rumours that some manufacturers may ship their
    >"Vista Ready" systems with an upgrade to Vista certificate as a way to
    >urge purchasing before Vista hits RTM, but, that's just a rumour, isn't
    >it?
    >
    > And Bobb's logic seems sound enough; the problem is, often times sound
    > logic doesn't apply to retail distribution of computer systems...
    >
    > --
    > Mark
    >
    > Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!
    >
    > "null2006" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>I don't think he's disputing that the current batch of PCs available
    >>are
    >> Vista-capable. He's just saying that as its release gets near, the
    >> Dells of the
    >> world will be offering deals so buyers aren't holding onto their cash
    >> over the
    >> holiday buying season in anticipation of Vista. Makes sense to me.
    >>
    >> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    >>
    >>> The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are
    >>> Vista
    >>> Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm
    >>> are the
    >>> predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual
    >>> core
    >>> cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.

    >>

    >
    - Bobb -, Jul 11, 2006
    #12
  13. Vista will be sold retail, and upgrades will be supported. And a great majority of applications that run under XP run just fine under Vista, as well. And more effort is being put into ensure the maximum compatibility that's practical.

    --
    Doug Knox, MS-MVP Windows Media Center\Windows Powered Smart Display\Security
    Win 95/98/Me/XP Tweaks and Fixes
    http://www.dougknox.com
    --------------------------------
    Per user Group Policy Restrictions for XP Home and XP Pro
    http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_securityconsole.htm
    --------------------------------
    Please reply only to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
    Unsolicited e-mail is not answered.

    "- Bobb -" <> wrote in message news:...
    >I thought I read that there would be no upgrade path to Vista - only
    > clean installs from OEM's ( Like MediaPlayer) . But even if they DO
    > offer an upgrade, everyone who buys a Vista Capable Pc would have to
    > wipe it ?? After having used it for X months ? and then reinstall all
    > apps ? What about if you bought it with .. Money/Office etc
    > preinstalled. For techy folks not a big deal - for the folks that are
    > "just buying a new PC" and not techy, do you think they'd go thru that
    > ? - or even know how? OR just wait 30-60 days to get one that is already
    > setup with Vista ? I think they'd wait and meanwhile the inventory
    > builds up at the retail sellers of HP/Compaqs/Gateways of the world.
    >
    > The business world I don't think it matters at all. Even though they'll
    > get it first, with an IT dept, they're gonna buy thru the distributors
    > and build an image ( whether XP or Vista, but probably XP until SP1 or
    > SP2 of Vista).
    >
    > "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>I have heard and read rumours that some manufacturers may ship their
    >>"Vista Ready" systems with an upgrade to Vista certificate as a way to
    >>urge purchasing before Vista hits RTM, but, that's just a rumour, isn't
    >>it?
    >>
    >> And Bobb's logic seems sound enough; the problem is, often times sound
    >> logic doesn't apply to retail distribution of computer systems...
    >>
    >> --
    >> Mark
    >>
    >> Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!
    >>
    >> "null2006" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>I don't think he's disputing that the current batch of PCs available
    >>>are
    >>> Vista-capable. He's just saying that as its release gets near, the
    >>> Dells of the
    >>> world will be offering deals so buyers aren't holding onto their cash
    >>> over the
    >>> holiday buying season in anticipation of Vista. Makes sense to me.
    >>>
    >>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are
    >>>> Vista
    >>>> Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm
    >>>> are the
    >>>> predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual
    >>>> core
    >>>> cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.
    >>>

    >>

    >
    Doug Knox MS-MVP, Jul 11, 2006
    #13
  14. Your answer is correct for 32-bit vista. But for x64 Vista, I do NOT expect
    to see an upgrade path - I expect a clean install to be required, primarily
    because of the change in driver requirements. (Vista drivers MUST be signed
    on x64.)

    And, of course, there will NOT be an "upgrade" path from 32-bit to 64-bit
    Windows. If you're currently running 32-bit, and want to run 64-bit, you're
    going to need to do a clean install.


    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64


    Doug Knox MS-MVP wrote:
    > Vista will be sold retail, and upgrades will be supported. And a great
    > majority of applications that run under XP run just fine under Vista, as
    > well. And more effort is being put into ensure the maximum compatibility
    > that's practical.
    >
    >
    > "- Bobb -" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I thought I read that there would be no upgrade path to Vista - only
    >> clean installs from OEM's ( Like MediaPlayer) . But even if they DO
    >> offer an upgrade, everyone who buys a Vista Capable Pc would have to
    >> wipe it ?? After having used it for X months ? and then reinstall all
    >> apps ? What about if you bought it with .. Money/Office etc
    >> preinstalled. For techy folks not a big deal - for the folks that are
    >> "just buying a new PC" and not techy, do you think they'd go thru that
    >> ? - or even know how? OR just wait 30-60 days to get one that is already
    >> setup with Vista ? I think they'd wait and meanwhile the inventory
    >> builds up at the retail sellers of HP/Compaqs/Gateways of the world.
    >>
    >> The business world I don't think it matters at all. Even though they'll
    >> get it first, with an IT dept, they're gonna buy thru the distributors
    >> and build an image ( whether XP or Vista, but probably XP until SP1 or
    >> SP2 of Vista).
    >>
    >> "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I have heard and read rumours that some manufacturers may ship their
    >>> "Vista Ready" systems with an upgrade to Vista certificate as a way to
    >>> urge purchasing before Vista hits RTM, but, that's just a rumour, isn't
    >>> it?
    >>>
    >>> And Bobb's logic seems sound enough; the problem is, often times sound
    >>> logic doesn't apply to retail distribution of computer systems...
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Mark
    >>>
    >>> Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!
    >>>
    >>> "null2006" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> I don't think he's disputing that the current batch of PCs available
    >>>> are
    >>>> Vista-capable. He's just saying that as its release gets near, the
    >>>> Dells of the
    >>>> world will be offering deals so buyers aren't holding onto their cash
    >>>> over the
    >>>> holiday buying season in anticipation of Vista. Makes sense to me.
    >>>>
    >>>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are
    >>>>> Vista
    >>>>> Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm
    >>>>> are the
    >>>>> predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual
    >>>>> core
    >>>>> cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jul 11, 2006
    #14
  15. Bobb - If you're running 32-bit XP, and want to upgrade to 32-bit Vista,
    there won't be a problem. But if you're running x64 XP, or want to upgrade
    to x64 Vista from 32-bit Vista - plan on a clean, fresh, install.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64


    - Bobb - wrote:
    > I thought I read that there would be no upgrade path to Vista - only
    > clean installs from OEM's ( Like MediaPlayer) . But even if they DO
    > offer an upgrade, everyone who buys a Vista Capable Pc would have to
    > wipe it ?? After having used it for X months ? and then reinstall all
    > apps ? What about if you bought it with .. Money/Office etc
    > preinstalled. For techy folks not a big deal - for the folks that are
    > "just buying a new PC" and not techy, do you think they'd go thru that
    > ? - or even know how? OR just wait 30-60 days to get one that is already
    > setup with Vista ? I think they'd wait and meanwhile the inventory
    > builds up at the retail sellers of HP/Compaqs/Gateways of the world.
    >
    > The business world I don't think it matters at all. Even though they'll
    > get it first, with an IT dept, they're gonna buy thru the distributors
    > and build an image ( whether XP or Vista, but probably XP until SP1 or
    > SP2 of Vista).
    >
    > "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I have heard and read rumours that some manufacturers may ship their
    >> "Vista Ready" systems with an upgrade to Vista certificate as a way to
    >> urge purchasing before Vista hits RTM, but, that's just a rumour, isn't
    >> it?
    >>
    >> And Bobb's logic seems sound enough; the problem is, often times sound
    >> logic doesn't apply to retail distribution of computer systems...
    >>
    >> --
    >> Mark
    >>
    >> Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!
    >>
    >> "null2006" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I don't think he's disputing that the current batch of PCs available
    >>> are
    >>> Vista-capable. He's just saying that as its release gets near, the
    >>> Dells of the
    >>> world will be offering deals so buyers aren't holding onto their cash
    >>> over the
    >>> holiday buying season in anticipation of Vista. Makes sense to me.
    >>>
    >>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The computers on the shelves now are all Vista Capable and most are
    >>>> Vista
    >>>> Premium ready. The trends likely to be well underway by Vista rtm
    >>>> are the
    >>>> predominance of 64-bit cpu's, the widespread availability of dual
    >>>> core
    >>>> cpu's, and 1GB of ram as standard.
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jul 11, 2006
    #15
  16. - Bobb -

    Chad Harris Guest

    Re: Price of PCs as Vista nears? Better than ever!

    1) NTTimes has done several articles on Dell's response to HP (HP beat Dell
    last quarter) and Acer gained 17% on Dell and for many desktops now, Dell is
    making no profit--that's right I typed no profit when they throw in a
    monitor for free. That is an old Dell manuever when they want to gain back
    market share.

    2) You'll of course see the best deals on PC prices as Vista heads in fits
    and spurts towards RTM even if RTM may be a bit of a moving target for a
    while.

    3) There will be a huge trend toward 64 bit processors and affordability
    which in a way is a win win for everyone--and will result in many more
    appliations, drivers, ect. to have 64 bit compatitibility.

    4) The upgrade coupons are simply inevitable. The OEMs wait for 6 years for
    Windows to give them an OS to spur sales and this OS has a ton of publicity
    on what constitutes a Vista ready PC--both real and fictional. There has
    been huge pressure on MSFT to provide this. The fact that MSFT hasn't been
    particularly clear about what is a Vista ready PC--and that many specs tend
    to convey your PC or your graphics card won't run Vista when it in fact can
    run it well.

    5) The huge problem that absolutely no one wants to discuss and MSFT hates
    to have mentioned that OEM Recovery discs and partitions will not adequately
    access Startup Repair and other modailities within Win RE will show up and
    impact the millions of Vista OEM preinstalled users who are not part of a
    company that handles this capability for them with custom installs, or
    custom discs.

    Right now it's correlate in Windows XP is that 99% of the time people cannot
    do a repair install booting from the XP CD that they don't have from OEM.
    And despite all the hoopla about recovery discs if you ever position
    yourself on chats and newsgroups to help with a no boot XP this will smack
    you in the face. Right now we're talking about 500 million OEM preinstalled
    XP desktops that are up this creek with no paddle complements of MSFT and
    the OEMs and their OEM VP.

    Once Vista RTMs, try the test where you and your buddy try to repair a No
    Boot Vista and you have what OEM shipped you and your buddy has a retail
    Vista DVD. See how much Win RE you access with what OEM shipped you.

    I'm staring at a slide right now called the "Windows Vista Opportuinty
    produced by MSFT that says:

    "Opportunity to be the fastest adopted OS"

    *Industry forcests>475 million PCs in first 24 months
    *Upgrades installed base of ~200 million PC's.
    *Windows Vista/Office 12 will spartk Enterprise refresh cycle.
    *$100M Windows Vista Showcase Partner Program

    I extrapolate from the slide and the proposed budget for the Vista sales
    campaign that MSFT plans to sell a ton of Vista--and plans to ensure that
    the majority of people buying it will have no significant way to fix a Vista
    No Boot once again screwing their largest customer base.

    Also how can they lose with The Daily Show behind them:

    http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Micro...c_for_Windows_Vista_Ad_Campaign?cshow=1927254

    CH







    "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I think you can count on most pc's sold for the Christmas season having an
    >upgrade coupon for Vista Home Basic or Premium (for Media Center systems).
    >
    > "Mark D. VandenBerg" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Why is it that every time I see "Windows ME" I always see the word
    >> "unstable" in close proximity?
    >>
    >> Like I said, only a rumour, but one that may have some historical, albeit
    >> anecdotal, basis.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Mark
    >>
    >> Keeping the fun in dysfunctional!
    >>
    >> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> That was the case when XP was due. I got a laptop with ME and a coupon
    >>> for a free upgrade to XP Home. It was in fact an upgraded recovery cd.
    >>> It was not an XP cd but it did upgrade my system so that I didn't have
    >>> to do a clean install. As it turned out, upgrading from ME to XP did
    >>> not produce a stable system and I wound up having to buy XP and
    >>> reinstalling myself because the provided upgrade cd was no help.

    >>

    >
    >
    Chad Harris, Jul 11, 2006
    #16
  17. * - Bobb -:
    > I'm in the market for a replacement laptop and I'm thinking that as
    > release date gets closer ( especially around winter holiday time) that
    > XP PC's will be VERY low in price to clear the shelves for Vista PC's .


    Nope. Why should they? Even current PCs run Vista just fine...

    > Come the Vista release, those pc's are boat anchors for retailers:


    Nope. Why should they?

    > especially Dell with their Intel only platform.


    What has the choice (intel or AMD) to do with Vista?

    > I know they only build
    > to order, but they ( and others) need to be selling SOMETHING for those
    > last few months. So they'll have deals and others will match - esecially
    > on NON Vista capable PCs


    Almost all PCs of the last 5 years are Vista capable. Only for Aero
    Glass you need a more modern gfx card, but a GeforceFX 5200 costs just a
    few bucks and does fine in Vista. So I don't know what you're dreaming of...

    > , and that Nov/Dec will see some super deals for
    > folks that DON'T need Vista. I can't imagine that someone that DOES want
    > Vista is going to buy a PC in November and then wait for Vista to hit
    > the store shelves ( will it be there in January ? February?) and THEN
    > pay $200 for it, bring it home, try to get drivers, then format his
    > drive (that he has used for 2 months) and start the install of Vista,
    > his apps etc. It would/will be a disaster


    Nope. Clever people buy a computer when they need it and not when
    something new comes out. Besides that, certain manufacturers usually
    offer cheap upgrades if a newer Windows version comes out to those that
    bought a system with the old version two or three month ago (I got my
    Windowsxp x64 this way from HP).

    > ( and void the warranty ?)


    Why should the installation of a new Operating system void warranty?

    > SO
    > they'll be a time when it will be tough to sell a PC with XP. I know
    > the manufacturers COULD just take them back to clear the shelves, but I
    > think that some buyers will buy the older technology at a good discount.
    > I think especially the 32 bit boxes will be very cheap


    Yeah, right, simply because there are already masses of 64bit programs
    around ;-) Hint: there is a reason why there is a 32bit Vista...

    > and Pc's that are NOT Vista capable.


    So basically Pentium3 PCs are becoming obsolete. What a surprise ;-)

    > So, to bring it back to my reason for this ... I'm
    > looking for a deal to get the higher requirements -video, 1gb of memory,
    > etc included and most notebooks DON'T currently have that unless
    > ordered from factory.


    Strange, here in Germany 1GB RAM is pretty standard on most notebooks,
    and 2GB can be found easily, too.

    > Do you think I should wait and maybe get a beefier
    > notebook offer - to make it Vista capable - even though I'd just use XP ?


    No need to wait. Every notebook of the last >4 years runs Vista great,
    and all newer notebooks already have DirectX9 capable gfx with decent
    video memory (128MB) which run Vista with all the bells and whistles.

    > Your thoughts - will we see great deals before/after Thanksgiving this
    > year ? on only low-end 32 bit PC's ? Or across the entire line ?


    My thoughts are that you wait for something that simply won't happen. I
    don't know what you think a Vista-capable PC/notebook requires that
    todays systems don't have but I can promise you that you won't see
    falling prices just because of Vista.

    Benjamin
    Benjamin Gawert, Jul 11, 2006
    #17
  18. Re: Price of PCs as Vista nears? Better than ever!

    * Chad Harris:

    > 3) There will be a huge trend toward 64 bit processors and affordability
    > which in a way is a win win for everyone--and will result in many more
    > appliations, drivers, ect. to have 64 bit compatitibility.


    Which "huge trend to 64bit processors" should there be? The majority of
    all current desktop processors is already 64bit (and this for some time
    now). 64bit is already affordable for everyone, so what do you expect
    should happen? And despite the fact that the majority of systems sold is
    64bit already (except some ultra-cheap Celeron/Sempron systems) and also
    despite that Windowsxp x64 is out for over a year now there still are
    only few x64 applications - which is understandable since 64bit makes
    absolutely no sense for the majority of applications...

    > 4) The upgrade coupons are simply inevitable. The OEMs wait for 6 years for
    > Windows to give them an OS to spur sales and this OS has a ton of publicity
    > on what constitutes a Vista ready PC--both real and fictional. There has
    > been huge pressure on MSFT to provide this. The fact that MSFT hasn't been
    > particularly clear about what is a Vista ready PC--and that many specs tend
    > to convey your PC or your graphics card won't run Vista when it in fact can
    > run it well.


    For me the requirements for running Vista are very clear, I can't see
    where all the fuzz is about. Every PC of the last 4 years or so should
    run Vista just fine (maybe it needs a bit more RAM), and if you want
    Aero Glass you need a DirectX9-capable gfx card which is standard for ~3
    years now.

    > 5) The huge problem that absolutely no one wants to discuss and MSFT hates
    > to have mentioned that OEM Recovery discs and partitions will not adequately
    > access Startup Repair and other modailities within Win RE will show up and
    > impact the millions of Vista OEM preinstalled users who are not part of a
    > company that handles this capability for them with custom installs, or
    > custom discs.


    Then you simply choosed the wrong system vendor. Nothing that MS is
    responsible for...

    > Right now it's correlate in Windows XP is that 99% of the time people cannot
    > do a repair install booting from the XP CD that they don't have from OEM.
    > And despite all the hoopla about recovery discs if you ever position
    > yourself on chats and newsgroups to help with a no boot XP this will smack
    > you in the face.


    All my HP systems came with a Recovery disk and a generic Windowsxp CD
    that can do repair just fine. I'm sure the Vista media from HP will have
    similar capabilities...

    Benjamin
    Benjamin Gawert, Jul 11, 2006
    #18
  19. Re: Price of PCs as Vista nears? Better than ever!

    > Which "huge trend to 64bit processors" should there be? The majority of
    > all current desktop processors is already 64bit (and this for some time
    > now). 64bit is already affordable for everyone, so what do you expect
    > should happen? And despite the fact that the majority of systems sold is
    > 64bit already (except some ultra-cheap Celeron/Sempron systems) and also
    > despite that Windowsxp x64 is out for over a year now there still are only
    > few x64 applications - which is understandable since 64bit makes
    > absolutely no sense for the majority of applications...


    The compelling reason to have an x64 edition of the OS is when your system
    has more than 2 GB of physical ram. Given that 1 GB is standard today, 2 GB
    is common for higher-end systems, and some people already have more than
    2GB, the date this becomes a real concern is very close.

    The process of moving to 64-bit computing is complicated, just as moving
    from 16-bit to 32-bit was a decade ago. We've gotten past the first hurdles
    of getting a 64-bit technology that is backwards compatible with the
    dominate 32-bit technology in the market, getting x64 capable CPUs and
    motherboards to become the dominate chip type, and getting the initial
    version of the OS that supports x64 working and publicly available to get
    the large number of players in the Windows ecosystem access to the
    technology bits they need to support it.
    In my opinion, there are three major blockers for x64 right now:

    (A) The x64 Windows OS is only available in the OEM channel and is being
    minimally pushed by systems integrators. This is being changed for Windows
    Vista as both x86 and x64 editions should be widely available.

    (B) Far too many third party suppliers of hardware are dragging their feet
    on getting x64 drivers, as are some of the stranger middleware companies
    that make software kernel-mode drivers for stuff like game copy-protection
    schemes. This will again be helped a great deal by the Windows Vista
    hardware logo program and broader deployment of x64 in the consumer market.

    (C) Application developers taking x64 compatibility seriously. This is a
    problem even for some Microsoft development groups, but is in large part
    gated by the adoption rates. The work to get your 32-bit application to run
    on the x64 edition isn't much for 90% of appliications, but until everyone
    considers it a shipping requirement there will still be bad experiences for
    some applications trying to run them on x64 editions.

    Once these problems have been overcome, application developers will have
    enough of an install base to justify doing really exploitive things with x64
    editions like 64-bit native implementations. Certainly for many
    memory-intensive applications, there are already compelling reasons to make
    64-bit native implementations for even a limited install base.

    --
    Chuck Walbourn
    SDE, Game Technology Group

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
    Chuck Walbourn [MSFT], Jul 12, 2006
    #19
  20. Re: Price of PCs as Vista nears? Better than ever!

    * Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]:

    > The compelling reason to have an x64 edition of the OS is when your system
    > has more than 2 GB of physical ram.


    It's more like 4GB of RAM, not 2GB. 32bit Windows can handle 3.5GB (4GB
    minus PCI address space) of RAM and 2GB per process, the 32bit server
    versions can use up to 64GB (with PAE) and 3.5GB per process.

    With less than 4GB of memory there usually is no reason for a 64bit OS...

    > Given that 1 GB is standard today, 2 GB
    > is common for higher-end systems, and some people already have more than
    > 2GB, the date this becomes a real concern is very close.


    I have two systems at home which have more than 4GB (one has 13GB, one
    has 16GB, both running Winxp x64 of course) but I'd hardly call that
    "standard" even in the next 4-5 years or so. There are only very few
    applications where more than 4GB makes sense, and these applications are
    hardly common.

    > The process of moving to 64-bit computing is complicated, just as moving
    > from 16-bit to 32-bit was a decade ago.


    Nope, it's different. When Windows made the step to 32bit there were no
    two consumer Windows versions (16bit and 32bit) running in parallel and
    cometing with each other. After Windows 3.11 the mass market got
    Windows95 which (at least to some extend) was 32bit. This was the
    successor of Windows 3.11 and it's 32bit, period. Even the new WindowsNT
    3.1 was fully 32bit. So the upgrade to 32bit basically was a forced one.

    This is not the case with Windowsxp and even not with Vista. Both are
    sold in two versions (32bit and x64) and running parallel competing with
    each other. The customer has a choice, and sure will choose the version
    that has most support from either hardware and software. And this is the
    32bit version.

    > We've gotten past the first hurdles
    > of getting a 64-bit technology that is backwards compatible with the
    > dominate 32-bit technology in the market, getting x64 capable CPUs and
    > motherboards to become the dominate chip type, and getting the initial
    > version of the OS that supports x64 working and publicly available to get
    > the large number of players in the Windows ecosystem access to the
    > technology bits they need to support it.


    Most players simply decided not to support it...

    > In my opinion, there are three major blockers for x64 right now:
    >
    > (A) The x64 Windows OS is only available in the OEM channel and is being
    > minimally pushed by systems integrators.


    In the comodity market you're right. In the workstation market Winxp x64
    already has found it's place...

    > This is being changed for Windows
    > Vista as both x86 and x64 editions should be widely available.


    This also has been said before Winxp x64 came out. The thing is that an
    OS is not self-containing, so people only buy Windows x64 if it does
    bring an real advantage.

    > (B) Far too many third party suppliers of hardware are dragging their feet
    > on getting x64 drivers, as are some of the stranger middleware companies
    > that make software kernel-mode drivers for stuff like game copy-protection
    > schemes. This will again be helped a great deal by the Windows Vista
    > hardware logo program and broader deployment of x64 in the consumer market.


    I doubt it. Hardware manfacturer showed no interest in Winxp x64 because
    it's user base is relative small, and this is the case because there are
    only very few 64bit applications out there. Vista x64 requires drivers
    to be certified, which means that hardware vendors not only have to
    develop drivers but they also have them certified which means even more
    cost for an operating system that for a long time won't see any mass of
    64bit applications. There's a reason MS is fighting with hardware
    vendors to get x64 support.

    > (C) Application developers taking x64 compatibility seriously. This is a
    > problem even for some Microsoft development groups, but is in large part
    > gated by the adoption rates. The work to get your 32-bit application to run
    > on the x64 edition isn't much for 90% of appliications, but until everyone
    > considers it a shipping requirement there will still be bad experiences for
    > some applications trying to run them on x64 editions.


    Right. The best example is probably Apple which latest iTunes 6.0.5
    doesn't install on any x64 windows any more while the older versions did
    just fine...

    > Once these problems have been overcome, application developers will have
    > enough of an install base to justify doing really exploitive things with x64
    > editions like 64-bit native implementations. Certainly for many
    > memory-intensive applications, there are already compelling reasons to make
    > 64-bit native implementations for even a limited install base.


    There are, and for these areas there are already x64 versions. But these
    are basically niche markets and the applications are also expensive like
    hell.

    In fact, there simply is no advantage in having a 64bit spreadsheet
    program, text editor, email client, chat program, web browser etc. Even
    for games 64bit is not really an advantage, and it will take some
    serious time until it is. Only very few common applications would show a
    real benefit from 64bit, and that only when the current limits of 32bit
    Windows will be reached (which for common applications is rarely the
    case). Without the need for it there won't be 64bit applications, and
    without applications Vista x64 will have a very hard time.

    Benjamin
    Benjamin Gawert, Jul 12, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Andy

    Car PCs, mini PCs run Linux and windowsXP

    Andy, Jan 27, 2006, in forum: Computer Information
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    417
  2. - Bobb -

    Price of PCs as Vista nears?

    - Bobb -, Jul 11, 2006, in forum: Computer Information
    Replies:
    18
    Views:
    538
    - Bobb -
    Jul 19, 2006
  3. Andy
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    558
  4. whome

    Vista Ultimate: NZ price vs US Price

    whome, Jan 30, 2007, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    61
    Views:
    1,505
    Dianthus Mimulus
    Feb 3, 2007
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Firefox Nears 30% Usage

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 2, 2010, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    33
    Views:
    991
    Frank Williams
    Apr 21, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page