Price gouging in NZ...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Bling-Bling, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    Hi, y'all.

    Is there any good reason why web-hosting in NZ is so expensive when
    compared with what's on offer in the USA?

    I mean, I've seen several hosts in the USA offering shared hosting with
    1500mb of storage space and 50gigs of data transfer for $US3.95/month.

    But, with the hosting on offer here in NZ you're lucky to get 20mb and
    5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the same
    currency.

    Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?


    Bling Bling

    --
    IBM: "Linux is not just another operating system. It represents a
    collaboration of the best programmers in the industry coming together to
    create an operating system that works on any hardware platform."
    Bling-Bling, Apr 17, 2005
    #1
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  2. Bling-Bling

    ChrisOD Guest

    In article <pan.2005.04.17.18.12.06.609481@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling wrote:
    > Hi, y'all.
    >
    > Is there any good reason why web-hosting in NZ is so expensive when
    > compared with what's on offer in the USA?
    >
    > I mean, I've seen several hosts in the USA offering shared hosting with
    > 1500mb of storage space and 50gigs of data transfer for $US3.95/month.
    >
    > But, with the hosting on offer here in NZ you're lucky to get 20mb and
    > 5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the same
    > currency.
    >
    > Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?
    >
    >
    > Bling Bling
    >

    Two things come immediately to mind.
    1/. Economies of scale
    2/. Efficiencies through automation
    ChrisOD, Apr 17, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. In article <pan.2005.04.17.18.12.06.609481@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling <> wrote:
    >Hi, y'all.

    *SNIP*
    >5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the same
    >currency.
    >
    >Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?
    >

    Someone's gouging, but it's not the hosting provider. Check out pricing
    for bandwidth out of NZ sometime. Be sitting down when you then compare
    it to circuits of double or triple the capacity in the US.
    Bandwidth is very expensive here. Hundreds of dollars per Mb of
    international circuit, and that's cheap. Small customers can end up
    paying over a grand.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 17, 2005
    #3
  4. In article <>, thing <> wrote:
    >Bling-Bling wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >3) Scale, a server, $10,000 odd, plus spares on site.
    >

    *SNIP*

    What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    $1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 17, 2005
    #4
  5. Bling-Bling

    Chris Hope Guest

    Bling-Bling wrote:

    > Is there any good reason why web-hosting in NZ is so expensive when
    > compared with what's on offer in the USA?
    >
    > I mean, I've seen several hosts in the USA offering shared hosting
    > with 1500mb of storage space and 50gigs of data transfer for
    > $US3.95/month.
    >
    > But, with the hosting on offer here in NZ you're lucky to get 20mb and
    > 5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the
    > same currency.
    >
    > Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?


    I don't know about the storage space issue, but international traffic is
    incredibly expensive in New Zealand hence the small data allowances.

    I used to be in the webhosting business (I still run some dedicated
    servers for people but that's it now) and I certainly am in no hurry to
    return to it. It's extremely competitive and you make so little money
    from each hosting account you have to have hundreds or thousands of
    customers to be able to make any money.

    The only reason we were able to do make any money from hosting is
    because we were quite expensive by New Zealand terms, and were
    primarily a web development company and could therefore quite easily
    sign all our development customers up as hosting customers.

    If you want a large amount of storage space and decent traffic you could
    try www.webdrive.co.nz - they're who we sold out to and they have a
    pretty good service with reseller plans etc.

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.co.nz
    Chris Hope, Apr 17, 2005
    #5
  6. Bling-Bling wrote:
    > Is there any good reason why web-hosting in NZ is so expensive when
    > compared with what's on offer in the USA?


    economies of scale for one thing.

    > I mean, I've seen several hosts in the USA offering shared hosting with
    > 1500mb of storage space and 50gigs of data transfer for $US3.95/month.
    > But, with the hosting on offer here in NZ you're lucky to get 20mb and
    > 5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the same
    > currency.


    > Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?


    setup a webhosting company and see if you can do better.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Apr 17, 2005
    #6
  7. Bling-Bling

    thing Guest

    Bling-Bling wrote:
    > Hi, y'all.
    >
    > Is there any good reason why web-hosting in NZ is so expensive when
    > compared with what's on offer in the USA?
    >
    > I mean, I've seen several hosts in the USA offering shared hosting with
    > 1500mb of storage space and 50gigs of data transfer for $US3.95/month.
    >
    > But, with the hosting on offer here in NZ you're lucky to get 20mb and
    > 5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the same
    > currency.
    >
    > Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?
    >
    >
    > Bling Bling
    >


    I used to do this, indeed I still get asked to host sites.....

    There are unfortunately huge problems with web hosting and especially in NZ.

    1) Scale, if I was to do hosting I would need to do daily backups, DLT
    tapes alone for a month add up to 20 x $130 = $2500 ish....With lots of
    sites that becomes a small cost.

    2) Scale, then there is a UPS, a decent one is $2000 odd.

    3) Scale, a server, $10,000 odd, plus spares on site.

    4) Servers are considerably cheaper in the USA and when bought in bulk.

    5) Then there is the horrendious international traffic costs plus
    telecom and clear effectively own the NZ backbone so their pricing is
    not cheap either.

    6) Admin of the single box....

    7) Large diversity of software needs.

    8) Clients expect you to do stuff that is clearly within what they
    should be doing and are generally too stupid to do a web site safelt ep
    cgi scripting making security a nightmare. Try explaining to Client A
    that because Client B ran a bad cgi script that their site is defaced
    and that the day's upload is lost as the backup is only overnight....

    9) Clients whio dont pay....and that is quite a big %.

    I gave up because see $4 or $8 US a month with huge bandwidth allowances
    and wondered at my charges. Then there are people out there that dont do
    backups, have no UPS, do not patch or maintain and so are cheap.....

    If you want a cheap service I would suggest getting cable or adsl and
    try doing it yourself.

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Apr 17, 2005
    #7
  8. Bling-Bling

    Chris Hope Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:

    > In article <>, thing
    > <> wrote:
    >>Bling-Bling wrote:

    > *SNIP*
    >>3) Scale, a server, $10,000 odd, plus spares on site.
    >>

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    > expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    > $1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.


    Yeah I agree. I usually buy those Dell 1U machines with dual SATA with
    RAID for my dedicated servers and they're under $1600.

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.co.nz
    Chris Hope, Apr 17, 2005
    #8
  9. Matthew Poole wrote:
    > *SNIP*
    >>3) Scale, a server, $10,000 odd, plus spares on site.

    > *SNIP*


    > What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    > expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    > $1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.


    heh, I was going to comment the same.

    even the most entry level machines are fine for webhosting as long as
    you're backing up frequently enough.(Sempron 2200, 512MB ram, 80GB for
    ~$400)
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Apr 17, 2005
    #9
  10. Chris Hope wrote:
    >>What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    >>expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    >>$1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.


    > Yeah I agree. I usually buy those Dell 1U machines with dual SATA with
    > RAID for my dedicated servers and they're under $1600.


    which model?
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Apr 17, 2005
    #10
  11. Bling-Bling

    Chris Hope Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    > Chris Hope wrote:
    >>>What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    >>>expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    >>>$1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.

    >
    >> Yeah I agree. I usually buy those Dell 1U machines with dual SATA
    >> with RAID for my dedicated servers and they're under $1600.

    >
    > which model?


    I currently have 2 x PowerEdge 750s and 1 x PowerEdge 650 in my rack
    (plus a whole bunch of other older non Dell machines which will
    probably eventually be replaced with Dells).

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.co.nz
    Chris Hope, Apr 17, 2005
    #11
  12. Bling-Bling

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <d3ui2h$2tp$>,
    (Matthew Poole) wrote:

    > In article <>, thing
    > <> wrote:
    > >Bling-Bling wrote:

    > *SNIP*
    > >3) Scale, a server, $10,000 odd, plus spares on site.
    > >

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    > expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    > $1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.



    LOL, that is NOT a real server, try a blade server with 64/128
    processors, add in a RAID array, etc etc.
    whoisthis, Apr 17, 2005
    #12
  13. Bling-Bling

    Chris Hope Guest

    whoisthis wrote:

    > In article <d3ui2h$2tp$>,
    > (Matthew Poole) wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>, thing
    >> <> wrote:
    >> >Bling-Bling wrote:

    >> *SNIP*
    >> >3) Scale, a server, $10,000 odd, plus spares on site.
    >> >

    >> *SNIP*
    >>
    >> What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    >> expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    >> $1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.

    >
    > LOL, that is NOT a real server, try a blade server with 64/128
    > processors, add in a RAID array, etc etc.


    Yeah but that's a bit of overkill for basic web hosting. Especially if
    you're trying to be price competitive :)

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.co.nz
    Chris Hope, Apr 17, 2005
    #13
  14. Bling-Bling

    AD. Guest

    On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:30:21 +1200, whoisthis wrote:

    > LOL, that is NOT a real server, try a blade server with 64/128 processors,
    > add in a RAID array, etc etc.


    A blade server with 64/128 processors?

    Don't you mean 64 or 128 individual blade servers?

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Apr 17, 2005
    #14
  15. Bling-Bling

    thing Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > In article <>, thing <> wrote:
    >
    >>Bling-Bling wrote:

    >
    > *SNIP*
    >
    >>3) Scale, a server, $10,000 odd, plus spares on site.
    >>

    >
    > *SNIP*
    >
    > What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    > expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    > $1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.
    >


    Like I said, there is always someone who is prepared to do it cheaper.

    regards

    thing
    thing, Apr 18, 2005
    #15
  16. Bling-Bling

    Rob Guest

    The USA hosts that offer such huge disksapce and bandwidth, bank on there
    customers never using the diskspace or bandwidth.

    Many of these cheap hosts provide no support and their servers can be very
    very unreliable. Can be days of server downtime. They could also be very low
    spec servers, with thousands of websites on them. That is how they can
    afford
    such cheap prices.

    If using a NZ host, make sure that they are a 'real' NZ host, and have their
    servers iin NZ, and not using US servers, as hosting on real NZ server
    offers quicker website loading and response times


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Bling-Bling" <>
    Newsgroups: nz.comp
    Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:12 AM
    Subject: Price gouging in NZ...


    > Hi, y'all.
    >
    > Is there any good reason why web-hosting in NZ is so expensive when
    > compared with what's on offer in the USA?
    >
    > I mean, I've seen several hosts in the USA offering shared hosting with
    > 1500mb of storage space and 50gigs of data transfer for $US3.95/month.
    >
    > But, with the hosting on offer here in NZ you're lucky to get 20mb and
    > 5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the same
    > currency.
    >
    > Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?
    >
    >
    > Bling Bling
    >
    > --
    > IBM: "Linux is not just another operating system. It represents a
    > collaboration of the best programmers in the industry coming together to
    > create an operating system that works on any hardware platform."
    >
    Rob, Apr 18, 2005
    #16
  17. Rob wrote:
    > If using a NZ host, make sure that they are a 'real' NZ host, and have their
    > servers iin NZ, and not using US servers, as hosting on real NZ server
    > offers quicker website loading and response times


    big exception here... unless they're not peering and the traffic goes
    via the US or OZ(like Telstra)
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Apr 18, 2005
    #17
  18. Bling-Bling

    JedMeister Guest

    "Rob" <> wrote in message
    news:1113786922.248798@ftpsrv1...
    > The USA hosts that offer such huge disksapce and bandwidth, bank on there
    > customers never using the diskspace or bandwidth.
    >
    > Many of these cheap hosts provide no support and their servers can be very
    > very unreliable. Can be days of server downtime. They could also be very
    > low
    > spec servers, with thousands of websites on them. That is how they can
    > afford
    > such cheap prices.
    >
    > If using a NZ host, make sure that they are a 'real' NZ host, and have
    > their
    > servers iin NZ, and not using US servers, as hosting on real NZ server
    > offers quicker website loading and response times
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Bling-Bling" <>
    > Newsgroups: nz.comp
    > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:12 AM
    > Subject: Price gouging in NZ...
    >
    >
    >> Hi, y'all.
    >>
    >> Is there any good reason why web-hosting in NZ is so expensive when
    >> compared with what's on offer in the USA?
    >>
    >> I mean, I've seen several hosts in the USA offering shared hosting with
    >> 1500mb of storage space and 50gigs of data transfer for $US3.95/month.
    >>
    >> But, with the hosting on offer here in NZ you're lucky to get 20mb and
    >> 5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the same
    >> currency.
    >>
    >> Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?
    >>
    >>
    >> Bling Bling
    >>
    >> --
    >> IBM: "Linux is not just another operating system. It represents a
    >> collaboration of the best programmers in the industry coming together to
    >> create an operating system that works on any hardware platform."
    >>

    >


    How much faster is hosting on an NZ server? I use sites like cnn/bbc
    etc...and they seem fast enough for me. Even obscure overseas sites seem to
    load fairly quickly (assuming these are not cached locally).
    JedMeister, Apr 18, 2005
    #18
  19. Bling-Bling

    maz Guest

    "JedMeister" <> wrote in message
    news:ZgE8e.19582$...
    > "Rob" <> wrote in message
    > news:1113786922.248798@ftpsrv1...
    > > The USA hosts that offer such huge disksapce and bandwidth, bank on

    there
    > > customers never using the diskspace or bandwidth.
    > >
    > > Many of these cheap hosts provide no support and their servers can be

    very
    > > very unreliable. Can be days of server downtime. They could also be very
    > > low
    > > spec servers, with thousands of websites on them. That is how they can
    > > afford
    > > such cheap prices.
    > >
    > > If using a NZ host, make sure that they are a 'real' NZ host, and have
    > > their
    > > servers iin NZ, and not using US servers, as hosting on real NZ server
    > > offers quicker website loading and response times
    > >
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Bling-Bling" <>
    > > Newsgroups: nz.comp
    > > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:12 AM
    > > Subject: Price gouging in NZ...
    > >
    > >
    > >> Hi, y'all.
    > >>
    > >> Is there any good reason why web-hosting in NZ is so expensive when
    > >> compared with what's on offer in the USA?
    > >>
    > >> I mean, I've seen several hosts in the USA offering shared hosting with
    > >> 1500mb of storage space and 50gigs of data transfer for $US3.95/month.
    > >>
    > >> But, with the hosting on offer here in NZ you're lucky to get 20mb and
    > >> 5gigs of data transfer for three times that price, converted to the

    same
    > >> currency.
    > >>
    > >> Why should that be the case if they're not price gouging?
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Bling Bling
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> IBM: "Linux is not just another operating system. It represents a
    > >> collaboration of the best programmers in the industry coming together

    to
    > >> create an operating system that works on any hardware platform."
    > >>

    > >

    >
    > How much faster is hosting on an NZ server? I use sites like cnn/bbc
    > etc...and they seem fast enough for me. Even obscure overseas sites seem

    to
    > load fairly quickly (assuming these are not cached locally).
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Not sure, but I have always found my NZ hosted sites, with ftp and email,
    that the response times are far quicker, than with my websites that are
    hosted on US based servers. I haven't noticed much time in webpage loading
    speeds, although there is a difference in response times after the link is
    pressed. ISPs can also cache the webpages locally so this helps in loading
    speeds.

    One of the things I have noticed with my websites that are hosted in the US,
    is that sometimes email doesn't get delivered, or received. I was told that
    US datacentres are very strict on spam and preventing dos attacks, and they
    infact block some IP ranges from asian countries.
    maz, Apr 18, 2005
    #19
  20. In article <>, whoisthis <> wrote:
    >In article <d3ui2h$2tp$>,
    > (Matthew Poole) wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >> What the **** are you buying?! I work in the business, and our most
    >> expensive server yet has been under half that. Mostly we pay about
    >> $1400 for P4s with dual SATA drives.

    >
    >
    >LOL, that is NOT a real server, try a blade server with 64/128
    >processors, add in a RAID array, etc etc.


    Tell that to my employer, who seem to be doing extremely well (nine
    straight quarters at the top of Hitwise in our category) on our "not
    real" servers.
    Fact is, if you're doing web hosting you don't use high-end, blade
    servers. They're too expensive in a market where the margins are so
    thin you could read a legal contract through them.

    If you think that blades are the way to go, you obviously need to learn
    a lot about this business.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 18, 2005
    #20
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