Powershot SX10

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?

    I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level is
    like, how good the video is, etc...

    Is it worth $420?

    Thanks,
    Dudley
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #1
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  2. Dudley Hanks wrote:
    > Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >
    > I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level
    > is like, how good the video is, etc...
    >
    > Is it worth $420?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Dudley


    You could buy a proper camera for that! <G>

    David
    David J Taylor, Dec 14, 2008
    #2
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  3. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "David J Taylor"
    <-this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote in
    message news:6b31l.5997$...
    > Dudley Hanks wrote:
    >> Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >>
    >> I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level
    >> is like, how good the video is, etc...
    >>
    >> Is it worth $420?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Dudley

    >
    > You could buy a proper camera for that! <G>
    >
    > David


    I know...

    But, that 28mm - 560mm lens is kinda tempting...

    I'm really torn between the SX10 and a XSi or XS DSLR. Dell's got a nice
    package with the XS and two lenses (the 18 - 55mm and the 75 - 300mm).

    But, the small package of the SX10 plus that 20x lens, plus video, plus
    flash hotshoe, plus Digic IV processor ...

    And, the local camera shop has good rep (I've dealt there for a number of
    years).

    It's going to be a tough decision.

    Take Care,
    Dudley
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #3
  4. Dudley Hanks wrote:
    []
    > I know...
    >
    > But, that 28mm - 560mm lens is kinda tempting...
    >
    > I'm really torn between the SX10 and a XSi or XS DSLR. Dell's got a
    > nice package with the XS and two lenses (the 18 - 55mm and the 75 -
    > 300mm).
    > But, the small package of the SX10 plus that 20x lens, plus video,
    > plus flash hotshoe, plus Digic IV processor ...
    >
    > And, the local camera shop has good rep (I've dealt there for a
    > number of years).
    >
    > It's going to be a tough decision.
    >
    > Take Care,
    > Dudley


    Dudley,

    I would imagine that handling the two cameras in the shop might be the
    clincher. Is it easy for you to change the lenses - to see the correct
    alignment to insert the lens?

    You'll get similar zoom range from the DSLR, at the cost of having to
    change lenses. No video on the DSLR - how important is that? I like to
    take a small compact along with my DSLR to capture short movies as - for
    me at least - it adds to the memory of the event. The DSLR will have the
    faster reaction time and faster auto-focussing, and will work much better
    in lower light. It may capture an image quality more suitable for
    cropping, but the SX10 will have greater depth of field, which may help
    focus on shots which are not perfectly composed.

    Considering the DSLRs - I would recommend one with built-in sensor
    cleaning - do they both have that? Both the Canon DSLRs have Live View -
    is this what you would be mostly using? I would be slightly tempted
    towards the one with the larger LCD and higher pixel count. Is that deal
    with both lenses having image stabilisation?

    I've used similar Panasonic cameras to the SX10, and Nikon D40 and D60
    DSLRs - similar to the Canon, so I have no axe to grind one way or the
    other.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Dec 14, 2008
    #4
  5. Dudley Hanks

    Mark Thomas Guest

    Dudley Hanks wrote:
    > "David J Taylor"
    > <-this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote in
    > message news:6b31l.5997$...
    >> Dudley Hanks wrote:
    >>> Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >>>
    >>> I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level
    >>> is like, how good the video is, etc...
    >>>
    >>> Is it worth $420?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> Dudley

    >> You could buy a proper camera for that! <G>
    >>
    >> David

    >
    > I know...
    >
    > But, that 28mm - 560mm lens is kinda tempting...
    >
    > I'm really torn between the SX10 and a XSi or XS DSLR. Dell's got a nice
    > package with the XS and two lenses (the 18 - 55mm and the 75 - 300mm).
    >
    > But, the small package of the SX10 plus that 20x lens, plus video, plus
    > flash hotshoe, plus Digic IV processor ...
    >
    > And, the local camera shop has good rep (I've dealt there for a number of
    > years).
    >
    > It's going to be a tough decision.
    >
    > Take Care,
    > Dudley
    >
    >

    I presume the camera is for you, Dudley? From what I know of your
    circumstances and what you shoot, I think you are right to be torn
    between the two. Firstly I would suggest, controversially, that the
    extra zoom range is meaningless. The 75-300 + better sensor will
    probably give you an image sufficiently better that you could crop and
    equal the SX10's extra range. So the only real difference is the fact
    you will have to change lenses occasionally.

    I presume you are aware of the Cameralabs review:
    http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/
    It's a good review, but other than a daylight test against the Canon kit
    lens, they don't really compare it in any useful detail to a dslr. Then
    read:
    http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_450D_Digital_Rebel_XSi/
    (If you wish to obsess over ratings, you'll note that the SX10 gets 86%,
    versus 88% for the XSi and of course those ratings are relative to the
    class of camera.. The XSi is therefore a clear winner! (O:)

    So then it comes down to:

    'Aesthetics' - like how the camera feels to you (I imagine that is more
    important to you than most!), eg how well you can use/discern the
    screen/viewfinder/controls, whether you can manual focus, etc.

    Low light capability - the dslr will walk all over the SX10 when light
    levels fall.

    Responsiveness - again, the dslr will be much better at capturing
    fleeting moments.. are you going to shoot much sports, action, kids?

    Lens quality - the SX10 has a 'nice' lens, but not as good as some of
    the Panasonic's (worse CA and lower contrast), and the dslr kit lenses
    will equal or better it at most focal lengths and will be less prone to
    flare. (Plus you can buy more/better lenses (even if it is only the
    inevitable and very useful 50/1.4), and then continue to completely
    destroy your finances following the quest for better IQ..)

    The SX10 has video, but the dslr will also have slightly better dynamic
    range (but not much) and it will offer much more
    flexibility/expandability with respect to lens and flash systems...

    I think I've talked *myself* out of the SX10.. But back to you Dudley.
    Mark Thomas, Dec 14, 2008
    #5
  6. Dudley Hanks

    Mark Thomas Guest

    A couple of addenda:

    Mark Thomas wrote:
    > Low light capability - the dslr will walk all over the SX10 when light
    > levels fall.

    ....*especially if you stick a 50/f1.4 lens, or similar, on it. If you
    have never used an slr with a good, bright prime on it, you haven't lived.

    DOF control - you get much more dof control on the dslr.. In particular
    if you get that 50/1.4, or even just use the 75-300 at its larger
    apertures, you will see it is much easier to isolate your subject by
    blurring the back-/fore-ground, because of the larger sensor. If
    however you want *everything* in your image sharp, the SX10 is the way
    to go..

    > Responsiveness...
    Mark Thomas, Dec 14, 2008
    #6
  7. Dudley Hanks

    SMS Guest

    Dudley Hanks wrote:
    > Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >
    > I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level is
    > like, how good the video is, etc...
    >
    > Is it worth $420?


    No.
    SMS, Dec 14, 2008
    #7
  8. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "BobB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:06:23 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >>
    >>I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level is
    >>like, how good the video is, etc...
    >>
    >>Is it worth $420?
    >>
    >>Thanks,
    >>Dudley
    >>

    >
    > Here's a good example
    > http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml
    >
    > The SX10 clearly beats the 450D DSLR in most every way. Higher resolution,
    > less
    > chromatic aberration, more features, more convenience, quiet operation,
    > etc.,
    > etc., etc.
    >
    > In order to get comparable (still-frame only) performance out of the DSLR
    > you'd
    > have to spend in excess of $6,500 for at least two new lenses that would
    > come in
    > at over 9 lbs. Not counting the 6-12 lb. tripod required to make the
    > longer zoom
    > range lens useable on the DSLR. I've already done all the math and the
    > SX10
    > makes any DSLR look like a money-hungry black-hole mass that provides
    > little to
    > nothing extra in return.
    >


    Actually, I've read most of the reviews and test reports, and I've been
    fairly impressed by what I've read.

    While I don't agree with everything you've stated above, I have to admit
    that the SX10 rates pretty good -- which is one reason why this is a
    difficult decision for me.

    That is why I'm hoping to hear from somebody who actually owns one and can
    give me the low-down on how it performs in his / her real life situation.
    My main concern is low-light. I have no doubt I'd be pretty happy with the
    pics from daylight shots, but I do a lot of work in low-light, and I am more
    than a bit curious how the SX10 does there.

    Take Care,
    Dudley
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #8
  9. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "Mark Thomas" <markt@_don't_spam_marktphoto.com> wrote in message
    news:gi2pan$bgu$...
    >A couple of addenda:
    >
    > Mark Thomas wrote:
    >> Low light capability - the dslr will walk all over the SX10 when light
    >> levels fall.

    > ...*especially if you stick a 50/f1.4 lens, or similar, on it. If you
    > have never used an slr with a good, bright prime on it, you haven't lived.
    >
    > DOF control - you get much more dof control on the dslr.. In particular
    > if you get that 50/1.4, or even just use the 75-300 at its larger
    > apertures, you will see it is much easier to isolate your subject by
    > blurring the back-/fore-ground, because of the larger sensor. If however
    > you want *everything* in your image sharp, the SX10 is the way to go..
    >
    >> Responsiveness...


    Thanks for your thoughts, Mark.

    I haven't shot digital with a fast prime, but I used to do a lot of concerts
    in my younger days with some pretty nice Canon gear. Back then, I'd shoot
    400 ISO film and run back to my lab where I'd push it to 1600.

    You're definitely right when you say a photog hasn't lived if he / she
    hasn't slipped a fast piece of glass onto their favourite camera.

    One point you raised kind of pushes me towards the DSLR: the DOF issue.

    Truth be told, I doubt I'll ever run that 20X lens to it's full length; I
    just won't find myself out tromping around in the bush shooting birds and
    bears very often. And, I've got my A720 for those quick family snap shots
    where detail is the thing, not special effects. However, my limited
    attempts with the A720 to get a shallow DOF were REALLY disappointing.

    Since shallow DOF was one of the things I routinely produced running around
    stages and tripping over cables, it's the one thing I miss with my P&S. It
    would be nice to get a camera capable of producing at least a minimally
    blurred background.

    Until reading your post, I have been more concerned about the low-light
    performance. The A720, while able to get some shots when the lights go
    down, isn't exactly the most responsive beast I've ever shot. Test reports
    seem to indicate a bit of an improvement in this area with the SX10, but I
    think it'll still take a lot of patience.

    Obviously, the XSi or the XS won't hold a candle to the D3's and 5D Mk.
    II's, but it should be a pretty substantial step up from the compact arena.

    Thanks for mentioning that,
    Dudley
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #9
  10. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "Mark Thomas" <markt@_don't_spam_marktphoto.com> wrote in message
    news:gi2mad$503$...
    > Dudley Hanks wrote:
    >> "David J Taylor"
    >> <-this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote in
    >> message news:6b31l.5997$...
    >>> Dudley Hanks wrote:
    >>>> Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level
    >>>> is like, how good the video is, etc...
    >>>>
    >>>> Is it worth $420?
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks,
    >>>> Dudley
    >>> You could buy a proper camera for that! <G>
    >>>
    >>> David

    >>
    >> I know...
    >>
    >> But, that 28mm - 560mm lens is kinda tempting...
    >>
    >> I'm really torn between the SX10 and a XSi or XS DSLR. Dell's got a nice
    >> package with the XS and two lenses (the 18 - 55mm and the 75 - 300mm).
    >>
    >> But, the small package of the SX10 plus that 20x lens, plus video, plus
    >> flash hotshoe, plus Digic IV processor ...
    >>
    >> And, the local camera shop has good rep (I've dealt there for a number of
    >> years).
    >>
    >> It's going to be a tough decision.
    >>
    >> Take Care,
    >> Dudley
    >>
    >>

    > I presume the camera is for you, Dudley? From what I know of your
    > circumstances and what you shoot, I think you are right to be torn between
    > the two. Firstly I would suggest, controversially, that the extra zoom
    > range is meaningless. The 75-300 + better sensor will probably give you
    > an image sufficiently better that you could crop and equal the SX10's
    > extra range. So the only real difference is the fact you will have to
    > change lenses occasionally.
    >
    > I presume you are aware of the Cameralabs review:
    > http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/
    > It's a good review, but other than a daylight test against the Canon kit
    > lens, they don't really compare it in any useful detail to a dslr. Then
    > read:
    > http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_450D_Digital_Rebel_XSi/
    > (If you wish to obsess over ratings, you'll note that the SX10 gets 86%,
    > versus 88% for the XSi and of course those ratings are relative to the
    > class of camera.. The XSi is therefore a clear winner! (O:)
    >
    > So then it comes down to:
    >
    > 'Aesthetics' - like how the camera feels to you (I imagine that is more
    > important to you than most!), eg how well you can use/discern the
    > screen/viewfinder/controls, whether you can manual focus, etc.
    >
    > Low light capability - the dslr will walk all over the SX10 when light
    > levels fall.
    >
    > Responsiveness - again, the dslr will be much better at capturing fleeting
    > moments.. are you going to shoot much sports, action, kids?
    >
    > Lens quality - the SX10 has a 'nice' lens, but not as good as some of the
    > Panasonic's (worse CA and lower contrast), and the dslr kit lenses will
    > equal or better it at most focal lengths and will be less prone to flare.
    > (Plus you can buy more/better lenses (even if it is only the inevitable
    > and very useful 50/1.4), and then continue to completely destroy your
    > finances following the quest for better IQ..)
    >
    > The SX10 has video, but the dslr will also have slightly better dynamic
    > range (but not much) and it will offer much more flexibility/expandability
    > with respect to lens and flash systems...
    >
    > I think I've talked *myself* out of the SX10.. But back to you Dudley.


    You're right Mark, the big thing for me is the feel of the camera, not the
    lens. And, quite frankly, that's probably the main reason I'm contemplating
    a new camera.

    My A720 IS is just the thing for pocketing when I'm out for a stroll and I
    encounter something I need to document for later review with somebody
    sighted, but I just can't seem to find my groove with it when I set out to
    take a real picture. It just doesn't feel like my old 35mm SLRs; it
    doesn't seem to get me going creattively.

    The flash hot shoe on the SX10 is what started me thinking about a new
    camera. With it, I could pull out my old flashes and do a bit of bounce
    lighting, or I could pull out those horribly expensive Canon TTL flash
    cables and do some truely side-lit work (with the A720, the camera's flash
    has to fire a minimal pulse to activate the remote slave). And, I was
    thinking I could do some neat stuff with this minor upgrade.

    But, then I checked the price of the Rebel XS and XSi bodies, and my stomach
    quickly got tied in a knot.

    Now, I think I need to approach the problem from two directions. I have to
    delineate between utility type shots I take for more mundane reasons; the
    A720 is adequate for that purpose. (I'm starting to realize that that is
    not why I want a new camera.)

    On the other hand, to truly get back into photography, I think I need
    something a bit more versatile, something that will feel a bit more like the
    cameras I've done the bulk of my shots with over the years.

    The DSLR is looking better by the minute...

    Thanks, Mark, your thoughts have helped a lot.

    Take Care,
    Dudley
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #10
  11. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "David J Taylor"
    <-this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote in
    message news:FH41l.6030$...
    > Dudley Hanks wrote:
    > []
    >> I know...
    >>
    >> But, that 28mm - 560mm lens is kinda tempting...
    >>
    >> I'm really torn between the SX10 and a XSi or XS DSLR. Dell's got a
    >> nice package with the XS and two lenses (the 18 - 55mm and the 75 -
    >> 300mm).
    >> But, the small package of the SX10 plus that 20x lens, plus video,
    >> plus flash hotshoe, plus Digic IV processor ...
    >>
    >> And, the local camera shop has good rep (I've dealt there for a
    >> number of years).
    >>
    >> It's going to be a tough decision.
    >>
    >> Take Care,
    >> Dudley

    >
    > Dudley,
    >
    > I would imagine that handling the two cameras in the shop might be the
    > clincher. Is it easy for you to change the lenses - to see the correct
    > alignment to insert the lens?
    >
    > You'll get similar zoom range from the DSLR, at the cost of having to
    > change lenses. No video on the DSLR - how important is that? I like to
    > take a small compact along with my DSLR to capture short movies as - for
    > me at least - it adds to the memory of the event. The DSLR will have the
    > faster reaction time and faster auto-focussing, and will work much better
    > in lower light. It may capture an image quality more suitable for
    > cropping, but the SX10 will have greater depth of field, which may help
    > focus on shots which are not perfectly composed.
    >
    > Considering the DSLRs - I would recommend one with built-in sensor
    > cleaning - do they both have that? Both the Canon DSLRs have Live View -
    > is this what you would be mostly using? I would be slightly tempted
    > towards the one with the larger LCD and higher pixel count. Is that deal
    > with both lenses having image stabilisation?
    >
    > I've used similar Panasonic cameras to the SX10, and Nikon D40 and D60
    > DSLRs - similar to the Canon, so I have no axe to grind one way or the
    > other.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David


    Thanks, David, you make a strong case for the DSLR's. And, quite frankly,
    I'm starting to lean that way.

    Yes, I can change lenses on Canon bodies, though not by sighting the pin. I
    use a tactile method which, while it works pretty well with my old A2 and
    the like, I worry more with the DSLR that I will get dirt inside. But, with
    a bit of practice and being careful to only switch lenses in clean areas
    after giving the camera a good wipe, I don't think swapping glass will be a
    problem. And, yes, both the XS and XSi have the same sensor cleaning
    mechanism (at least as far as I've been able to determine).
    Video is one thing that attracted me to the SX10, only slightly less
    attractive to me than the flash hot shoe. My A720 does a good job with
    picture quality in video mode, but the sound gets a bit mushy in places. I
    am anticipating a better sounding clip with the SX10's stereo mic. But,
    video isn't a deal breaker; My attempts at video photography amounts to
    setting up the camera on a tripod in a spot that easily catches most of a
    room and then pressing the record button. My particular shooting method,
    while increasingly becoming more accurate in the stills department, doesn't
    translate well to video.

    When it comes to \Live View, I have mixed feelings about it. The size
    doesn't matter to me since what little "useful" vision I have is restricted
    to an area equivalent to about 1 cm squared when looking at either display.
    Hence, I can't take in the whole display at once; rather, I have to scan it
    several times to make sure things are layed out the way I want. And, the
    detail taken in during those scans is very crude -- no fine detail, just
    semidiscernable blotches of contrasting whites, greys and blacks. While I
    have taken a few shots this way, my best work has been simply "blind" point
    and shoots. Also, even if I could rely on my residual vision, my sight is
    still deteriorating, and the pace of that deterioration seems to be steadily
    increasing. I don't anticipate having any functional vision for more than a
    couple of years.

    Having said that, some displays are better than others. I can actually make
    out more on my son's A570's display than I can on my A720's -- not because
    it is bigger, more because it appears crisper. So, I'll check out the demos
    in the store and see if there is any difference between the cameras.

    You noted that DOF and cropping ability are kind of a trade-off. That got
    me thinking, especially since I've just responded to a post by Mark Thomas
    where he got me thinking about the more shallow DOF capability of the DSLR.
    What I've been missing with my pocket cam is the DOF control of my old
    35mms, and the creative effects that can be achieved with a more versatile
    setup. But, given my particular shooting style, I also need room to crop.
    The DSLR wins in both categories. Increasingly, I find myself working with
    my subjects at my fingertips, and I arrange things in a fairly limited area.
    Thus, I don't really work with any sweeping vistas, so a large DOF isn't as
    important as the ability to limit DOF.

    Regarding image stabilization, I think the smaller lens had it but the 75 -
    300mm didn't. But, that's not a deal breaker either. As I've noted in the
    past, "IS is nice," but I've spent too many years shooting without it to
    worry whether or not I've got it. I've hand-held some fairly long lenses
    down to 1/30 second with pretty good results. And, let's not forget that
    the internet is fairly forgiving when it comes to camera shake. Small
    images tend to hide some flaws that can be rather glaring in larger prints.
    Besides, as you and Mark pointed out, I'll most likely find myself using
    shorter focal lengths than the extended telephoto. I'm pretty sure a quick
    check of the shots I've taken over the past year will not net more than a
    very few taken at anything more than a moderate use of the A720's full
    210mm; I know I've never taken a shot fully zoomed in. I'm just not that
    accurate when I point at a single object at any kind of a distance.

    Well, thanks for the input, David. It's interesting how bouncing ideas
    around can help one clear things up. While I'll probably think about that
    SX10 for a few more days, I'm thinking a lot more favourably about the XS
    and the XSi. I think the issue now is which of those two is the one to
    purchase....

    If I didn't already have a few Canon accessories that will work on the
    budget DSLR's, I'd be tempted to check out the Nikon and Sony lower end
    units as well. But, I don't think I can afford to go with either of those
    product lines at the moment.

    Take Care,
    Dudley
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #11
  12. Dudley Hanks

    Xxxxx Guest

    I have both the SX10 IS and the XSi. The SX10 is noisier, but it lets me
    capture shots that the XSi can't quite match, due to the added zoom and the
    image stabilizer. I use a Tamon 28-300 most of the time on the XSi (the
    75-300 that came with the camera is still in the box, gathering dust), and
    its zoom can't compare with that of the SX10. The 18-55 gets used much less
    often. (The XSi + 75-300 + 18-55 was $750 at Costco. The SX10 IS was $349
    via Amazon.)

    Weight and size are definitely factors. When I'm out on an 8 mile hike, the
    SX10 IS is decidely more portable and more flexible. When I need quality,
    speed, or a wider angel however, I'll yank out the XSi (with the 18-55
    attached).

    For the SX10 IS, I was replacing my S1 IS. My only disappointment was that
    the SX10 IS does not have an intervelometer feature.

    --
    nadie
    "Dudley Hanks" <> wrote in message
    news:cc41l.753$O53.4@edtnps82...

    > But, that 28mm - 560mm lens is kinda tempting...
    >
    > I'm really torn between the SX10 and a XSi or XS DSLR. Dell's got a nice
    > package with the XS and two lenses (the 18 - 55mm and the 75 - 300mm).
    Xxxxx, Dec 14, 2008
    #12
  13. Dudley Hanks wrote:
    []
    > Thanks, David, you make a strong case for the DSLR's. And, quite
    > frankly, I'm starting to lean that way.


    Oh! I was trying to think of the pros anc cons of each, from my
    experience, but tyring to consider your needs!

    > Yes, I can change lenses on Canon bodies, though not by sighting the
    > pin. I use a tactile method which, while it works pretty well with
    > my old A2 and the like, I worry more with the DSLR that I will get
    > dirt inside. But, with a bit of practice and being careful to only
    > switch lenses in clean areas after giving the camera a good wipe, I
    > don't think swapping glass will be a problem. And, yes, both the XS
    > and XSi have the same sensor cleaning mechanism (at least as far as
    > I've been able to determine).


    Check changing lenses when you get a chance to be hands-on. The built-in
    cleaning should take care of a lot of the dirt, or if money is less
    important, get the 18-200mm zoom.

    > Video is one thing that attracted me to the SX10, only slightly less
    > attractive to me than the flash hot shoe. My A720 does a good job
    > with picture quality in video mode, but the sound gets a bit mushy in
    > places. I am anticipating a better sounding clip with the SX10's
    > stereo mic. But, video isn't a deal breaker; My attempts at video
    > photography amounts to setting up the camera on a tripod in a spot
    > that easily catches most of a room and then pressing the record
    > button. My particular shooting method, while increasingly becoming
    > more accurate in the stills department, doesn't translate well to
    > video.


    Some of my video is at the widest angle, and panning round to show the
    current view. A living ultra-wide-angle, if you like. At other times,
    it's to capture motion and sound - typically at a motor race or at the
    zoo, with the camera pointing in a fixed direction.

    []
    > Well, thanks for the input, David. It's interesting how bouncing
    > ideas around can help one clear things up. While I'll probably think
    > about that SX10 for a few more days, I'm thinking a lot more
    > favourably about the XS and the XSi. I think the issue now is which
    > of those two is the one to purchase....
    >
    > If I didn't already have a few Canon accessories that will work on the
    > budget DSLR's, I'd be tempted to check out the Nikon and Sony lower
    > end units as well. But, I don't think I can afford to go with either
    > of those product lines at the moment.
    >
    > Take Care,
    > Dudley


    You got me thinking as well - thanks.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Dec 14, 2008
    #13
  14. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Thanks, I appreciate your comments.

    Have you taken any video with the SX10? If so, how would you rate the sound
    quality?

    Take Care,
    Dudley



    "Xxxxx" <> wrote in message
    news:y7b1l.1811$...
    >I have both the SX10 IS and the XSi. The SX10 is noisier, but it lets me
    >capture shots that the XSi can't quite match, due to the added zoom and the
    >image stabilizer. I use a Tamon 28-300 most of the time on the XSi (the
    >75-300 that came with the camera is still in the box, gathering dust), and
    >its zoom can't compare with that of the SX10. The 18-55 gets used much less
    >often. (The XSi + 75-300 + 18-55 was $750 at Costco. The SX10 IS was $349
    >via Amazon.)
    >
    > Weight and size are definitely factors. When I'm out on an 8 mile hike,
    > the SX10 IS is decidely more portable and more flexible. When I need
    > quality, speed, or a wider angel however, I'll yank out the XSi (with the
    > 18-55 attached).
    >
    > For the SX10 IS, I was replacing my S1 IS. My only disappointment was that
    > the SX10 IS does not have an intervelometer feature.
    >
    > --
    > nadie
    > "Dudley Hanks" <> wrote in message
    > news:cc41l.753$O53.4@edtnps82...
    >
    >> But, that 28mm - 560mm lens is kinda tempting...
    >>
    >> I'm really torn between the SX10 and a XSi or XS DSLR. Dell's got a nice
    >> package with the XS and two lenses (the 18 - 55mm and the 75 - 300mm).

    >
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #14
  15. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "Ted G." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:02:45 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"BobB" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:06:23 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >>>>
    >>>>I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level is
    >>>>like, how good the video is, etc...
    >>>>
    >>>>Is it worth $420?
    >>>>
    >>>>Thanks,
    >>>>Dudley
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Here's a good example
    >>> http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml
    >>>
    >>> The SX10 clearly beats the 450D DSLR in most every way. Higher
    >>> resolution,
    >>> less
    >>> chromatic aberration, more features, more convenience, quiet operation,
    >>> etc.,
    >>> etc., etc.
    >>>
    >>> In order to get comparable (still-frame only) performance out of the
    >>> DSLR
    >>> you'd
    >>> have to spend in excess of $6,500 for at least two new lenses that would
    >>> come in
    >>> at over 9 lbs. Not counting the 6-12 lb. tripod required to make the
    >>> longer zoom
    >>> range lens useable on the DSLR. I've already done all the math and the
    >>> SX10
    >>> makes any DSLR look like a money-hungry black-hole mass that provides
    >>> little to
    >>> nothing extra in return.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Actually, I've read most of the reviews and test reports, and I've been
    >>fairly impressed by what I've read.
    >>
    >>While I don't agree with everything you've stated above, I have to admit
    >>that the SX10 rates pretty good -- which is one reason why this is a
    >>difficult decision for me.
    >>
    >>That is why I'm hoping to hear from somebody who actually owns one and can
    >>give me the low-down on how it performs in his / her real life situation.
    >>My main concern is low-light. I have no doubt I'd be pretty happy with
    >>the
    >>pics from daylight shots, but I do a lot of work in low-light, and I am
    >>more
    >>than a bit curious how the SX10 does there.
    >>
    >>Take Care,
    >>Dudley
    >>

    >
    > I've been an available-light photographer all my life. I have yet to find
    > a
    > situation in which I can't use a small-sensor camera to achieve the same
    > results
    > as when using a larger-sensor camera.
    >
    > Proper exposure in low-light at low ISOs has no more noise on a sensor
    > than
    > those taken in daylight at low ISOs. This is a given for any digital
    > camera. I
    > can easily get noise-free 65 second exposures on a 1/2.5" sensor. If the
    > sensor
    > receives enough light during the exposure than it's the same as if taken
    > in
    > daylight at the same ISOs. The cumulative number of photons on that sensor
    > are
    > no different if collected for 2 hours or 1/2,000th of a second. This is
    > something that the DSLR-Trolls always seem to never understand nor know.
    >
    > Some ISO800 images are also very useful from that size of sensor if you
    > require
    > higher shutter speeds in low-light. A P&S camera with an EVF that
    > auto-increases
    > sensor gain in the viewfinder in low-light will also allow you to focus in
    > levels so low where it would make an optical viewfinder in a DSLR totally
    > useless. This is another reason that I gave up on optical-viewfinder
    > cameras in
    > lieu of the more useful EVF cameras for low-light performance. It all
    > depends on
    > your own photography skills (and use of noise-removal editing tools if
    > using
    > higher ISOs) for low-light situations. This too is a given for any digital
    > camera and is relative to the situation at the time. A larger sensor only
    > gives
    > you about a 2-stop ISO advantage. That's hardly any kind of selling point
    > for an
    > experienced photographer. For a point and shoot novice? Yes, they need all
    > the
    > help they can get.
    >
    > Now, if you're just a novice point and shoot photographer and require 2
    > stops
    > faster shutter speeds from 2 stops higher ISOs in low-light because you
    > lack the
    > skills and abilities to do things like pan with your subject or know how
    > to hold
    > a camera steady then, by all means, dish out the $6,500 needed to try to
    > make up
    > for what you lack as a photographer. Just remember, it will come with its
    > own
    > set of even greater drawbacks. Like not being allowed into many public
    > events,
    > nor even shopping malls, due to the clattering noise that your dslr makes;
    > crud
    > on your sensor ruining all your photos until you find out later when you
    > get
    > home and you can't go back and re-shoot those photos; lost shots from
    > changing
    > lenses; and a hundred other drawbacks to using today's dslrs.
    >


    As I've pointed out elsewhere, I am quite happy with my Powershot A720 IS
    P&S camera. I use it for things most people would shake their heads in
    wonder at.

    But, after more carefully contemplating why I want a new camera, it is
    becoming clear that the SX10 would simply give me a better version of what I
    already have; it won't address the deficiencies of the P&S line.

    As a P&S user, I like to extoll the virtues of these cameras as much as
    anyone, possibly more so. But, I try to look at things honestly and
    practically. Having done that, I don't see how purchasing another, albeit
    better, P&S camera will help me to take pics with less DOF, or help me get
    back to the state-of-mind I used to enter into when shooting with my former
    35mm cameras.

    Regarding the shallower DOF, say what you will about the P&S camera, I
    haven't found one yet that will achieve anything close to what can be
    obtained with a good prime lens. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct
    me.

    Regarding the more ethereal area of "state-of-mind" and how that can
    contribute to more creative pics, I can't elaborate much on that. All I can
    say is that the tactile sensation of something can truly act as a
    psychological "anchor" that can be used to help one establish a certain
    mental / physiological condition which can demonstrably effect one's
    capabilities (see "Unlimited Power," by Anthony Robins, possibly chapter 13
    or 14).

    Having used cameras with a certain shape and feel for more than 30 years,
    having shot many rock concerts in many large venues, I tend to work in a
    fairly systematic fashion. The shape and feel of P&S cameras is such that,
    while possibly more useful for some things than a DSLR, I cannot find my
    stride with them in the more esoteric areas of the craft. This isn't the
    fault of the camera; it's simply the way I work.

    Now, if I want to take a picture in a shopping mall, I always have my trusty
    A720 in my pocket or fanny pack. Etc...

    Sorry, this calls for a bit of a side bar:

    The other day I wanted to buy myself a pair of gloves. Here in Edmonton,
    the temp dropped dramatically, and the wind picked up, so it was time to
    pull out the winter clothes.

    Not being able to find my gloves from last year, I hopped a bus and went
    down to the mall. But, when I got there, I discovered I had forgotten my
    wallet at home, so I couldn't get my gloves.

    More than a bit pissed off, I trudged back to the bus terminal at the mall.
    However, with all of the blowing snow and my frozen hands trying to handle
    my aluminum cane (God, I miss my guide), it took me about 20 minutes to get
    to the bus stop. Then, I had to wait another 10 minutes or so for the bus
    to arrive.

    Needless to say, by the time the bus got there, I was frozen and not in the
    best of humour. Thus, when the bus driver asked me to show my card, I was
    both embarrassed and rather pissed off.

    As a blind person, the Canadian National Institute issues me an
    identification card which is accepted in lue of a bus pass. Theoretically,
    I should have it on me whenever I ride the buses. But, in practice, 99.999%
    of the bus drivers don't ask to see it, most even discourage blind people
    from digging through their wallets / pockets looking for it because it slows
    things down. Accordingly, one gets rather used to just walking onto a bus
    and asking "Which seat is open?"
    I apologized to the bus driver for not having my card with me and explained
    my situation, pointing out that I had my white cane with me which can only
    be obtained from the CNIB, and which in fact is illegal for anyone other
    than a blind person to possess and / or use in Canada. This didn't phase
    the driver at all; he still wanted to see my card in order for me to board
    the bus.

    Next, I pointed out that it is actually quite hazardous for a blind person
    to try to navigate in a busy city in conditions such as was the case at the
    moment, that the sidewalks were obscured by drifts which caused people to
    wander into traffic or off their routes and into open areas such as parks
    and parking lots. And, I ended up by explaining that it normally took me an
    hour to walk from the mall to my home; in this weather it would more than
    likely take 3 or 4 hours (without gloves), assuming I could find my way at
    all.

    Still, he was unphased.

    At this point, I lost it and told him rather angrily that I wanted him to
    get a supervisor down, pronto, and I asked him for his name and badge
    number.

    At this, he quickly changed his mind and said he would graciously let me
    ride the bus, "this time," but that I better not forget my card in the
    future. I told him that was nice of him, but that I still wanted to speak
    with a supervisor.

    He refused to call one down, presumably because he knew that transit policy
    in Edmonton is to err on the side of caution with blind passengers in
    general, and everyone in bad weather. I have even witnessed bus drivers
    pulling over in between stops to pick up children, seniors and disabled
    people in cold weather. When told that they can't afford the fare, the
    drivers simply say, "Don't worry about it. You'll freeze out there today.

    It was clear to me that this guy knew the policy and was merely amusing
    himself by harrasing a blind guy. So, I got my revenge.

    While I was verbally venting my displeasure at his attitude, I slipped my
    hand into my pocket and pulled out my ever-present A720. Not having to look
    at the camera to set it, i flipped the mode dial with my thumb until I felt
    the larger atenuation while rotating the dial counter-clockwise.

    Next, I rotated it back three clicks, clockwise. This put it in Tv mode,
    which I always leave set at 1/200 seconds with the flash enabled.

    With the camera in the right mode, I made sure that the switch along the top
    right side of the camera back was set to shooting mode instead of viewing
    mode, and I pressed the power button and waited for the lens to pop out.

    The bus driver was too busy defending his decision not to summon a
    supervisor, so he didn't notice what I was doing, that is, until the flash
    went off right in front of his face.

    Wow, was he pissed off.

    But, I told him that first thing in the morning, I would be calling the
    complaint line and he could explain himself to a supervisor at that point,
    and I finished with "I hope you gave me your correct badge number, because I
    have a picture to establish your identity, as well as the route number and
    time of day. I punctuated this statement by pressing the button on my
    talking watch which immediately responded with, "It is 9:05 pm."

    With that, he turned around and sat quietly in his seat, and I found one for
    myself.

    The moral of this long diversion, is that I will always own and have on my
    person a P&S camera because of what it CAN do. But, I also want a DSLR
    because of what the P&S CAN'T do.

    Take Care,
    Dudley
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #15
  16. Dudley Hanks

    Paul Furman Guest

    Dudley Hanks wrote:
    > Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >
    > I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level is
    > like, how good the video is, etc...
    >
    > Is it worth $420?


    Wide angle sounds *much* more useful than super telephoto for your
    limited sight situation... though maybe I'm missing something in your
    approach and vision of photography. I'm looking at the Panasonic LX-3
    for that price with 24mm f/2 wide and a mere 60mm eq. on the long end. I
    want to use it for street shooting where you get that feeling of being
    immersed in the scene with lots of foreground.

    --
    Paul Furman
    www.edgehill.net
    www.baynatives.com

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
    Paul Furman, Dec 14, 2008
    #16
  17. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "Paul Furman" <> wrote in message
    news:T2d1l.11839$...
    > Dudley Hanks wrote:
    >> Has anyone seen any pics from the new Canon Powershot SX10 IS?
    >>
    >> I'm just wondering how that lens is performing, what the noise level is
    >> like, how good the video is, etc...
    >>
    >> Is it worth $420?

    >
    > Wide angle sounds *much* more useful than super telephoto for your limited
    > sight situation... though maybe I'm missing something in your approach and
    > vision of photography. I'm looking at the Panasonic LX-3 for that price
    > with 24mm f/2 wide and a mere 60mm eq. on the long end. I want to use it
    > for street shooting where you get that feeling of being immersed in the
    > scene with lots of foreground.
    >
    > --
    > Paul Furman


    The first thing that went through my mind when I thought about the 20X zoom
    was, "Wow, I could really get a good shot of something in the distance to
    show others when I want more info..." But, the more I thought about it, the
    more I came to realize I'd never be able to aim it accurately at full zoom.

    You're right, Paul, the 28mm end would be much more useful.

    But, that first 100mm would have a pretty good aperture...

    Take Care,
    Dudley
    Dudley Hanks, Dec 14, 2008
    #17
  18. Dudley Hanks

    SMS Guest

    Xxxxx wrote:
    > I have both the SX10 IS and the XSi. The SX10 is noisier, but it lets me
    > capture shots that the XSi can't quite match, due to the added zoom and
    > the image stabilizer. I use a Tamon 28-300 most of the time on the XSi
    > (the 75-300 that came with the camera is still in the box, gathering
    > dust), and its zoom can't compare with that of the SX10. The 18-55 gets
    > used much less often. (The XSi + 75-300 + 18-55 was $750 at Costco. The
    > SX10 IS was $349 via Amazon.)


    $349 is a fair price for the SX10is. The original poster asked if it was
    worth $420, which it isn't. BTW, the SX10IS is now $330 at Amazon.
    That's a pretty good deal.

    Costco now has the XSi with two IS lenses (not on Costco.com, in the
    stores), and IIRC it was $900.
    SMS, Dec 14, 2008
    #18
  19. Dudley Hanks

    Xxxxx Guest

    Yes. The sound quality is excellent, IMO, and actually achieves a decent
    stereo/surround effect. When I shot video of an eagle, some kids were
    yelling behind me. When I played it back at my office desk (I have good
    stereo speakers), it actually sounded like the yelling was coming from
    behind me. So, the acoustical capture was pretty effective.

    --
    nadie
    "Dudley Hanks" <> wrote in message
    news:pxb1l.775$O53.26@edtnps82...
    > Thanks, I appreciate your comments.
    >
    > Have you taken any video with the SX10? If so, how would you rate the
    > sound quality?
    >
    > Take Care,
    > Dudley
    >
    >
    >
    > "Xxxxx" <> wrote in message
    > news:y7b1l.1811$...
    >>I have both the SX10 IS and the XSi. The SX10 is noisier, but it lets me
    >>capture shots that the XSi can't quite match, due to the added zoom and
    >>the image stabilizer. I use a Tamon 28-300 most of the time on the XSi
    >>(the 75-300 that came with the camera is still in the box, gathering
    >>dust), and its zoom can't compare with that of the SX10. The 18-55 gets
    >>used much less often. (The XSi + 75-300 + 18-55 was $750 at Costco. The
    >>SX10 IS was $349 via Amazon.)
    >>
    >> Weight and size are definitely factors. When I'm out on an 8 mile hike,
    >> the SX10 IS is decidely more portable and more flexible. When I need
    >> quality, speed, or a wider angel however, I'll yank out the XSi (with the
    >> 18-55 attached).
    >>
    >> For the SX10 IS, I was replacing my S1 IS. My only disappointment was
    >> that the SX10 IS does not have an intervelometer feature.
    >>
    >> --
    >> nadie
    >> "Dudley Hanks" <> wrote in message
    >> news:cc41l.753$O53.4@edtnps82...
    >>
    >>> But, that 28mm - 560mm lens is kinda tempting...
    >>>
    >>> I'm really torn between the SX10 and a XSi or XS DSLR. Dell's got a
    >>> nice package with the XS and two lenses (the 18 - 55mm and the 75 -
    >>> 300mm).

    >>

    >
    >
    Xxxxx, Dec 14, 2008
    #19
  20. Dudley Hanks

    Xxxxx Guest

    The image stabilizer actually makes it possible at 20x... a bit more
    difficult when you crank it out to 80x. This picture was shot at 20x on the
    S10 IS:

    http://tinyurl.com/6kwdkk

    --
    nadie
    "Dudley Hanks" <> wrote in message
    news:lLd1l.791$O53.634@edtnps82...

    > The first thing that went through my mind when I thought about the 20X
    > zoom was, "Wow, I could really get a good shot of something in the
    > distance to show others when I want more info..." But, the more I thought
    > about it, the more I came to realize I'd never be able to aim it
    > accurately at full zoom.
    >
    > You're right, Paul, the 28mm end would be much more useful.
    >
    > But, that first 100mm would have a pretty good aperture...
    Xxxxx, Dec 14, 2008
    #20
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