PowerlessShell

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. Man, the new flagship Dimdows command line is ugly
    <http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/12/windows-server-2008-r2-in-depth.ars/2>.
    Can’t you choose a better font? Colour scheme? Tabbing?

    No you can’t, because this command line has to provide its own GUI, and
    you’re stuck with it. You don’t have a choice of terminal front-ends,
    separate from the command-line shell itself, ranging from the elaborate KDE
    Konsole all the way down to full-screen character mode. Not to mention
    useful alternatives like Screen <http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/screen>.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 17, 2009
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > Man, the new flagship Dimdows command line is ugly
    > <http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/12/windows-server-2008-r2-in-depth.ars/2>.
    > Can’t you choose a better font? Colour scheme? Tabbing?
    >
    > No you can’t, because this command line has to provide its own GUI,
    > and you’re stuck with it. You don’t have a choice of terminal
    > front-ends, separate from the command-line shell itself, ranging from
    > the elaborate KDE Konsole all the way down to full-screen character
    > mode. Not to mention useful alternatives like Screen
    > <http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/screen>.
    >

    But it does work. It even has 'man' and 'ls' and you can get quite
    tricky with the OO stuff.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Dec 17, 2009
    #2
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  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    On 17/12/2009 8:31 pm, Enkidu wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> Man, the new flagship Dimdows command line is ugly
    >> <http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/12/windows-server-2008-r2-in-depth.ars/2>.
    >>

    > But it does work. It even has 'man' and 'ls' and you can get quite
    > tricky with the OO stuff.


    Lawrence doesn't like OO though. There's a diatribe against it on his
    site[1].

    Besides which...

    >> Can’t you choose a better font? Colour scheme? Tabbing?


    You *can* choose fonts and colours[2]. And all sorts of other things.

    >> No you can’t, because this command line has to provide its own GUI,
    >> and you’re stuck with it. You don’t have a choice of terminal
    >> front-ends, separate from the command-line shell itself, ranging from
    >> the elaborate KDE Konsole all the way down to full-screen character
    >> mode. Not to mention useful alternatives like Screen
    >> <http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/screen>.


    There *are* alternate front ends for PowerShell[3]. It provides an API
    for hosting its runtime within other apps[4]. Don't like the front end?
    Write your own.

    But hey, let's not get facts get in the way of our distaste for
    Microsoft and proprietary software in general.

    [1] <http://www.geek-central.gen.nz/peeves/programmin/oop_problems.html>
    [2] <http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee156814.aspx>
    [3] <http://www.powergui.org/index.jspa>
    [4] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Hosting>
     
    Nik Coughlin, Dec 17, 2009
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    On 17/12/2009 9:08 pm, Nik Coughlin wrote:
    > On 17/12/2009 8:31 pm, Enkidu wrote:
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>> Man, the new flagship Dimdows command line is ugly
    >>> <http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/12/windows-server-2008-r2-in-depth.ars/2>.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> But it does work. It even has 'man' and 'ls' and you can get quite
    >> tricky with the OO stuff.

    >
    > Lawrence doesn't like OO though. There's a diatribe against it on his
    > site[1].
    >
    > Besides which...
    >
    > >> Can’t you choose a better font? Colour scheme? Tabbing?

    >
    > You *can* choose fonts and colours[2]. And all sorts of other things.
    >
    > >> No you can’t, because this command line has to provide its own GUI,
    > >> and you’re stuck with it. You don’t have a choice of terminal
    > >> front-ends, separate from the command-line shell itself, ranging from
    > >> the elaborate KDE Konsole all the way down to full-screen character
    > >> mode. Not to mention useful alternatives like Screen
    > >> <http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/screen>.

    >
    > There *are* alternate front ends for PowerShell[3]. It provides an API
    > for hosting its runtime within other apps[4]. Don't like the front end?
    > Write your own.
    >
    > But hey, let's not get facts get in the way of our distaste for
    > Microsoft and proprietary software in general.
    >
    > [1] <http://www.geek-central.gen.nz/peeves/programmin/oop_problems.html>
    > [2] <http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee156814.aspx>
    > [3] <http://www.powergui.org/index.jspa>
    > [4] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Hosting>


    Note also open source clone of PowerShell under development, which
    thanks to Mono runs on Linux, BSD, UNIX, Mac OS X, Solaris, Windows,
    iPhone via MonoTouch etc. etc.

    <http://pash.sourceforge.net/>
     
    Nik Coughlin, Dec 17, 2009
    #4
  5. In message <hgcouo$8r2$-september.org>, Nik Coughlin wrote:

    > There *are* alternate front ends for PowerShell. It provides an API
    > for hosting its runtime within other apps.


    Yet another API to be incompatible with existing software. On top of having
    to write your tools as special “cmdlets†to get them to be usable from
    PowerShell. What happened to the standard *nix filter paradigm? I mean, they
    managed to copy the basic standard-input/standard-output idea back in MS-DOS
    2.0, for goshsakes. They couldn’t build on that?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 17, 2009
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    On 17/12/2009 10:38 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message<hgcouo$8r2$-september.org>, Nik Coughlin wrote:
    >
    >> There *are* alternate front ends for PowerShell. It provides an API
    >> for hosting its runtime within other apps.

    >
    > Yet another API to be incompatible with existing software.


    Meaningless blather.

    > On top of having
    > to write your tools as special “cmdlets†to get them to be usable from
    > PowerShell.


    Actually, you can use any executable from within PowerShell, as well as
    classes from any .NET assembly. cmdlets are the preferred but by no
    means only way of doing things within PowerShell.

    > What happened to the standard *nix filter paradigm? I mean, they
    > managed to copy the basic standard-input/standard-output idea back in MS-DOS
    > 2.0, for goshsakes. They couldn’t build on that?


    It exists in PowerShell. You pipe your input/output between cmdlets as
    objects instead of raw text is all. Note that there's nothing to stop
    you from piping the object into a cmdlet that serializes it to raw text
    however you please and then piping that into a standard executable, or
    vice versa for that matter.

    So it does everything that you claim it doesn't, and then extends upon
    that further.
     
    Nik Coughlin, Dec 18, 2009
    #6
  7. In message <>, whoisthis wrote:

    > Do yourself a favour, put a filter in to kill any article with "Dimdows"
    > in it.


    But that still means downloading the content of the article, which probably
    boosts some popularity/traffic counter somewhere. Do you really want to do
    that?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 18, 2009
    #7
  8. In message <hgegqm$k0u$-september.org>, Nik Coughlin wrote:

    > So it does everything that you claim it doesn't, and then extends upon
    > that further.


    The fact remains, you would add a lot more functionality to your Windows
    system by installing Cygwin than by installing PowerShell.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 27, 2009
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <hgegqm$k0u$-september.org>, Nik Coughlin wrote:
    >
    >> So it does everything that you claim it doesn't, and then extends upon
    >> that further.

    >
    > The fact remains, you would add a lot more functionality to your Windows
    > system by installing Cygwin than by installing PowerShell.
    >

    Is Cygwin still going? I thought that it had faded away with the advent
    of virtualisation. I've still got it on a machine somewhere I think, but
    it never gets used. Last time I tried to update it I couldn't find a
    mirror that still worked.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Dec 27, 2009
    #9
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