Power supply fried, replaced it, computer won't start

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by ., Aug 28, 2006.

  1. .

    Rod Speed Guest

    David Matthew Wood <> wrote
    > Rod Speed <> wrote
    >>>>>>> David Matthew Wood <> wrote


    >>>>>>> in which case I don't consider the equipment protected.


    >>>>>> Again, nothing like your original.


    >>>>> I said this a couple of times actually.


    >>>> Not in your original you never did.


    >>> This is true. Dunno why you continue to rub that
    >>> in though, since it's been established already.


    >> Because you keep attempting to claim that you only ever made
    >> that comment in context and that is clearly a bare faced lie.


    > In context of the original poster's problem.


    Still a lie. The OP's problem had nothing to do with the Power Good line, or
    running a power supply unloaded either. In spades with your drivel about amps.

    No matter how desperately you attempt to bullshit
    now, you're fooling absolutely no one at all.

    >>>>>> Pity that if it does shut down ITS CLEARLY PROTECTED AGAINST
    >>>>>> RUNNING THAT WAY, and if it doesnt shut down IT CANT DAMAGE
    >>>>>> ANYTHING BECAUSE NOTHING IS CONNECTED TO IS.


    >>>>> How would it damage something that isn't connected to it?


    >>>> Precisely.


    >>>>> Where did that come from?


    >>>> Your stupid claim that it shuts down to protect anything when its unloaded.


    >>> Yes, in this case itself.


    >> Still wrong, the supply doesnt need any protection when running unloaded,
    >> it will either start fine unloaded and wont get damaged or it wont start.


    >> In spit of your original claim that has always been just plain wrong.


    > My original claim is that some won't stay
    > on if they don't see a load on power good.


    Lying, again. You never ever said anything like that originally.
    Here it is again.

    >>>>>>>> Yes, and while it doesn't directly have anything to do
    >>>>>>>> with Power Good, such power supplies don't provide
    >>>>>>>> any protection either. If you try to fire up a GOOD
    >>>>>>>> supply and it doesn't observe the correct loads (either
    >>>>>>>> from not being properly connected or from something
    >>>>>>>> that is shorting), it will shut down in order to prevent
    >>>>>>>> damage since it is bad for a power supply to run
    >>>>>>>> without a load. Same goes with amps. If you power
    >>>>>>>> up an amp and crank the volume without speakers attached,
    >>>>>>>> it will either a, gointo thermal shut down, or b, self-destruct.


    > I have one of them in this computer. If I take away power good, it will shut
    > off.


    Irrelevant to that stupid pig ignorant claim that good power
    supplys shut down if they detect that they are unloaded,
    to protect themselves against being used like that.

    It wont do them any harm even if they can start unloaded,
    and most cant, because its cheaper to design them like that.

    >>>>>>>>>>> Case in point, power supply that smoked when it was shorted.


    >>>>>>>>>> Says nothing useful what so ever about whether it didnt have
    >>>>>>>>>> ANY protection.


    >>>>>>>>> Protection against damage, no it obviously did not.


    >>>>>>>> It just didnt have protection AGAINST A SHORTED RAIL.


    >>>>>>> And therefore didn't have equipment protection against a shorted
    >>>>>>> rail. Yes. Well, I also consider this protection against
    >>>>>>> equipment damage as well - in this case, the supply itself.


    >>>>>> Pity you stupidly pig ignorantly claimed that SOME CHEAP
    >>>>>> POWER SUPPLYS DONT HAVE ANY PROTECTION.


    >>>>>> ALL THAT SHOWS IS THAT THOSE DONT HAVE
    >>>>>> PROTECTION AGAINST A SHORTED OUTPUT.


    >>>>> uh huh - and the better ones do.


    >>>> No one ever said they didnt.


    >>> All ATX supplies are supposed to have this protection.
    >>> Yet, I have seen cheaper ones that don't.


    >> No news.


    > Which is what I meant by "don't have any protection".


    Lying as always.

    > Again, in context to the original post in this thread.


    Your stupid pig ignorant claim about good power supplys
    purportedly shutting down when they are started unloaded
    because they need to do that to avoid any damage to
    themselves if they run unloaded is completely irrelevant to
    the OP's context. He didnt even attempt to use it like that.

    AND IF IT ISNT PLUGGED INTO THE MOTHERBOARD,
    IT CANT EVEN START, BECAUSE IT DOESNT EVEN SEE
    THE START SIGNAL FROM THE MOTHERBOARD ANYWAY.

    >> All ATX supplys are supposed to ensure that nothing powered
    >> from them can be killed if the power supply dies for whatever
    >> reason too, and there are plenty of examples of cheap supplys
    >> that have dies and taken some of what is powered from them
    >> with them when they die.


    >> That is NOT the same as not having ANY protection.


    > Well they certainly don't have protection against
    > shorted rails, which they are all supposed to!


    No news. No one has ever said they all do.

    > Therefore, I don't consider this protection!


    Separate matter entirely to not providing ANY protection.

    > If it's not up to spec, it's not what I consider protection.


    Separate matter entirely to not providing ANY protection.

    >>>>>>>> Says nothing useful what so ever about
    >>>>>>>> whether it has OTHER protection.


    >>>>>>> Took out the mobo when this happened,
    >>>>>>> actually. Not my idea of protection.


    >>>>>> Pity you stupidly pig ignorantly claimed that SOME CHEAP
    >>>>>> POWER SUPPLYS DONT HAVE ANY PROTECTION.


    >>>>>> ALL THAT SHOWS IS THAT THOSE DONT HAVE
    >>>>>> PROTECTION AGAINST A SHORTED OUTPUT.


    >>>>> uh huh - and again, the better ones do.


    >>>> No one ever said they didnt.


    >>> So clearly this was a cheaper design that failed to comply with spec.


    >> Duh.


    >>>>>>>>> That is what the thread was about.


    >>>>>>>> Lying, again.


    >>>>>>> OP said it didn't power up because a cable was not connected
    >>>>>>> correctly.


    >>>>>> Pity you stupidly pig ignorantly claimed that SOME CHEAP
    >>>>>> POWER SUPPLYS DONT HAVE ANY PROTECTION.


    >>>>>> No evidence that the OPs power supply damaged anything.


    >>>>> I never said the OP's power supply did damage anything!


    >>>> I never ever said you did.


    >>> Then why did you even bring it up, saying that there
    >>> was no evidence that it DID damage something?


    >> Because you made that stupid pig ignorant claim that
    >> some cheap power supplys dont have ANY protection.


    > If their protection isn't up to spec, I don't consider it protection.


    Separate matter entirely to not providing ANY protection.

    >>>> That was a JOKE you stupid fuckwit. It even had a
    >>>> smiley on the end for the terminally SOH challenged.


    >>> I didn't think it was at all funny.


    >> You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
    >> irrelevant. What you may or may not think is funny in spades.


    > Whether or not that was a joke is also irrelevant.


    Nope.

    > Either way though, it shows you're a raciest.


    Nope. It isnt being a racist to say that negroids
    tend to have curly hair and black skins either.

    Or that asians tend to have black straight hair and inverted eyelids.

    It isnt being a racist to tell irish jokes either.

    > That's too bad, really.


    Pathetic, really.

    >>> In fact, it comes across that you are a raciest ass is what it does.


    >> It was a JOKE, you stupid fuckwit clown.


    > A joke a raciest would make.


    Not a fucking clue, as always.

    >> Dont laugh, see if I actually give a flying red **** whether you do or not.


    > DAMN! Someone's got something shoved up his ass,


    Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.

    I dont even have an ass, tho I do have an arse.

    > and it's not me.


    Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>> The spikes are within tolerance.


    >>>>>>>>>>>> There is no such animal.


    >>>>>>>>>>> You must have some reallllyyyyy cleeeaaaaaaaannnnn power
    >>>>>>>>>>> then.


    >>>>>>>>>> Nope, I'm just saying that there is no TOLERANCE to be within.


    >>>>>>>>> So you're basically saying that the voltage you get from a
    >>>>>>>>> household a/c outlet is a CONSTANT 120, and NEVER fluctuates
    >>>>>>>>> at all?


    >>>>>>>> Nope, THAT THERE IS NO TOLERANCE SPECIFIED WITH SPIKES.


    >>>>>>> If the power supply handles it fine (which they
    >>>>>>> all do to a degree), then it has tolerance.


    >>>>>> Thats not what 'within tolerance' means.


    >>>>>>> It has to, since household current is not always stable. Storms,
    >>>>>>> big motors kicking on and off, etc. Again, voltage regulation.


    >>>>>> THERE IS NO TOLERANCE TO BE WITHIN.


    >>>>> It has to be designed to tolerate normal and unavoidable voltage
    >>>>> fluctuations.


    >>>> Duh. THERE IS STILL NOW SPECIFIED TOLERANCE.


    >>> I know there is NOW specified tolerance.


    >> No you dont.


    > You said "THERE IS STILL NOW SPECIFIED TOLERANCE".


    That was obviously a typo, fuckwit.

    > And yes, there is.


    No there isnt WITH THE SPIKES BEING DISCUSSED.

    >>>>> If the fluctuations are within a certain,
    >>>>> threshold they are within tolerance.


    >>>> THERE IS NO SPECIFIED THRESHOLD.


    >>> But a threshold nonetheless.


    >> Nope.


    > So then you're saying that a power supply will fail to
    > work if input voltages changes just by a couple of volts?


    Nope, I AM SAYING THAT THERE IS NOT SPECIFIED TOLERANCE
    OR THRESHOLD WITH THE SPIKES BEING DISCUSSED.

    > Glad I don't have any such beast here.


    You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
    irrelevant. What you may or may not be glad about in spades.

    >>>>> If input voltage is outside this threshold, the PS will shut down.


    >>>> Wrong again with spikes.


    >>> Shutting down due to under voltage.


    >> They dont all do that either.


    > Then they're not up to ATX spec.


    Duh.

    > What kind of protection is that?


    They still have SOME protection. Otherwise they wouldnt last long
    in the real world with real world mains with the spikes seen on those.

    >>> There should still be protection against damage from spikes though.
    >>> Cheaper supplies tend to not have as good protection however.


    >> Duh.


    >>> Either way, there is a specified range between 100 and 127 volts
    >>> (or 200 and 240) in which the power supply should function as normal.


    >> Irrelevant to that stupid pig ignorant claim you made, AGAIN.


    >>>>> If the input voltage remains within this threshold, it is within
    >>>>> tolerance.


    >>>> THERE IS NO SPECIFIED THRESHOLD.


    >>> 100-127
    >>> or
    >>> 200-240 as per ATX spec.


    >> That aint the SPIKES you were clearly discussing,
    >> you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.


    > A spike can refer to any short period of overvoltage condition.


    Wrong again. That's a surge. And there are
    STILL no specified thresholds with surges either.

    > If a supply is rated for 110 and it gets a spike of 127, that is within
    > spec'ed
    > tolerance and the supply is not supposed to have a problem with this. 127
    > may not be a damaging spike, but it is still a spike nonetheless.


    Pity the specs just specify what STATIC voltages
    the supply has to operate at, NOT WHAT SPIKES
    OR SURGES IT HAS TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE.

    >>>>> An AC supply is not perfectly 100% stable so therefore,
    >>>>> a PS has to be designed to tolerate this to a point.


    >>>> THERE IS NO SPECIFIED THRESHOLD WITH SPIKES.


    >>> again
    >>> 100-127
    >>> or
    >>> 200-240 as per ATX spec.


    >> That aint the SPIKES you were clearly discussing,
    >> you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.


    > I wasn't discussing spikes!


    Lying, as always. Its still there in the first
    bit of this sub thread still being quoted.

    > I only mentioned the word spike - which
    > can refer to any short period of overvoltage.


    Wrong again. We have separate words for spikes and surges for a reason.

    AND THE ATX SPEC IS SILENT ON ANY THRESHOLD FOR SPIKES
    AND SURGES THAT THE SUPPLY HAS TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE.

    > A power supply is supposed to handle this quite happily up to 127 - quite
    > a bit above the juice you are supposed to be getting from a power outlet.


    Thats the STATIC voltage that the supply has to be able to hande,
    NOT WHAT CAN BE SEEN WITH SPIKES AND SURGES.

    >>>>>>>>>>>> And there has to be protection against mains spikes,
    >>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise no power supply thats used on the mains will
    >>>>>>>>>>>> last very long.


    >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, that is why we have voltage regulators. Again though,
    >>>>>>>>>>> this has nothing to do with the output of the supply being shorted.


    >>>>>>>>>> Has everything to do with your original stupid claim that
    >>>>>>>>>> some cheap power supplys dont have ANY protection.


    >>>>>>>>> Protection against shorts. Again, context of the thread.


    >>>>>>>> Again, pity YOU also raved on mindlessly about unloaded
    >>>>>>>> too IN YOUR FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD.


    >>>>>>> I have one running in this computer that will not stay on
    >>>>>>> if there is nothing connected to the 5v good power line.


    >>>>>> No surprises there, its more common than power supplys that will start
    >>>>>> up fine unloaded. BECAUSE ITS CHEAPER TO DESIGN THEM LIKE THAT.


    >>>>>> Doesnt say anything useful ABOUT ANYTHING GETTING DAMAGED
    >>>>>> IN THAT CONFIG. THE SUPPLY JUST FAILS TO START.


    >>>>> You said in an earlier post that ALL power supplies start up fine
    >>>>> and stay running without the 5v Power Good line being connected.


    >>>> No I didnt. You're lying, again.


    >>> quite a while ago I said:
    >>> However, on some power supplies, if there is a power
    >>> surge or any other issue (which can be caused by a
    >>> fried component on the motherboard), "Power Good"
    >>> will also shut down the power supply if it malfunctions.


    >>> To which you said:
    >>> Nope


    >> Which is nothing like what you lied about me saying.


    > You said that in several posts back.


    You are NOW lying about what I said then.

    > I have a power supply running in this computer that
    > will indeed shut down if I cut "power good"! PERIOD.


    Easy to claim. I dont believe it, you are clearly a pathological liar.

    >>>>> Yet, I have one in this machine that does not stay
    >>>>> powered if the 5v Power Good line is not connected.


    >>>> Irrelevant to anything I ever said.


    >>> Me:
    >>> I have quite a few that will shut down if load on PG does not exist.


    >>> You:
    >>> Fantasy. There are quite a few that will shut down if the
    >>> OUTPUT RAILS arent loaded, a different matter entirely.


    >> That claim about the power supply shutting
    >> down if the PG line isnt loaded is pure fantasy.


    > I have one right here, running my computer.
    > If I cut PG, it WILL turn off!


    Easy to claim. I dont believe it, you are clearly a pathological liar.

    >> And the ATX spec says NOTHING about
    >> that happening, let alone requiring that.


    > But some still do. I have one!


    Easy to claim. I dont believe it, you are clearly a pathological liar.

    And completely irrelevant to the OP's problem ANYWAY.

    >>>>>>> PG, yes. I have such a beast running in this machine.


    >>>>>> No surprises there, its more common than power supplys that will start
    >>>>>> up fine unloaded. BECAUSE ITS CHEAPER TO DESIGN THEM LIKE THAT.


    >>>>>> Doesnt say anything useful ABOUT ANYTHING GETTING DAMAGED
    >>>>>> IN THAT CONFIG. THE SUPPLY JUST FAILS TO START.


    >>>>> Again....
    >>>>> You said in an earlier post that ALL power supplies start up fine
    >>>>> and stay running without the 5v Power Good line being connected.


    >>>> No I didnt. You're lying, again.


    >>> Yes, you did.


    >> No I didnt.


    >>> You said that what I was saying about some supplies not remaining
    >>> powered up if the Power Good line is not connected to anything was
    >>> "fantasy".


    >> And it is. There are two parts to that lie of yours above.


    > First you say there is not a load on power good.


    Lying again. I never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like
    that.

    There is ALWAYS a load on ANY connected signal line.

    > Then you say it's cheaper to design a supply that
    > will not turn on if there is no load on power good.


    Lying again. I never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like
    that.

    What I ACTUALLY said is that its cheaper to design a supply that needs
    a load ON SOME OF THE RAILS IT PROVIDES, before it will start.

    The Power Good line IS NOT A RAIL, ITS A SIGNAL.

    > THEN you say the lack of a load on power good does
    > not turn off a supply....now you're saying it does.


    Lying again. I never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like
    that.

    > MAKE UP YOUR MIND!


    I HAVENT CHANGED ANYTHING I SAID ON THAT.

    >>>>> Yet, I have one in this machine that does not stay
    >>>>> powered if the 5v Power Good line is not connected.


    >>>> Irrelevant to anything I ever said.


    >>> nope.


    >> Yep.


    > How?


    See above.

    > Yon contradicted your own statement about power
    > good a couple of times just a few lines above this one!


    Lying, as always. You cant even manage
    to comprehend what I have actually said.

    >>>>>>>>> So why do all amp manufacturers say to never run without a load?


    >>>>>>>> They dont.


    >>>>>>> Plenty of them do - even for tube amps.


    >>>>>> Wrong, as always. And you stupidly pig ignorantly claimed ALL.


    >>>>> And now you're saying none of them say this,


    >>>> No I'm not, you pathological liar.


    >>>>> which is wrong.


    >>>> Pity I never ever said that.


    >>> See? Even if I say "plenty" which is not "all", you still say they don't.


    >> Lying, as always.


    >>> And yet, they do.


    >> Pity I never ever said that.


    > You just did, by telling me I was wrong when I said
    > plenty of them warn you not to run an amp without a load!


    Lying again. I never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like
    that.
     
    Rod Speed, Sep 2, 2006
    #61
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  2. .

    Rod Speed Guest

    wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote


    >> Basically because its cheaper to design it
    >> so that it needs some load to start properly.


    > Aye.. It is cheaper. It saves them a few capacitors...


    There's more involved than a few capacitors.

    > Hence the need for a load; You'd think they'd
    > settle for the cooling fan.. but ah well.


    There isnt really a lot of point designing to start with no load
    because if its not plugged in, there is no power on signal either.

    >> And those care least about no speakers anyway.


    > Tube amps are extremely forgiving as compared to the transistorized brothers.


    Yep, he hasnt actually got a clue about amps, or power supplys either.

    > Tube amps is a really bad example for claiming
    > no load kills them. They are hard to kill... very hard.


    And they dont get killed running with no load.

    > He was better off trying to claim transistorized amps
    > would die without a load.. It was more belivable.


    Yeah, he appeared to paint himself into a corner with the
    stupid claim about transformers and hasnt got the balls to
    admit that stupidity, or he doesnt actually have a clue about
    amps except that he does realise that tube amps exist.
     
    Rod Speed, Sep 2, 2006
    #62
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  3. .

    Guest

    wrote:

    >
    > wrote:
    >
    >> It lasted about three weeks, or the first power fluctuation - Lost the
    >> power supply and mother board.


    >And while your forking out the hard earned cash on a good PSU, get a
    >good UPS as well. What's the point of a nice PSU if you have dirty
    >power coming into it? :(


    Well, I left out the good part...

    I had it connected to a backup-UPS 600 (on it's third set of
    batteries). And one reason I bought such a cheap setup is I was
    counting on the UPS to protect the darn thing.

    When the fluctuation hit the UPS scream'd and the PC died never to
    start again, it was at that point I figured the UPS system was no
    longer working :)

    I still use the UPS, but as an extension cord, the red power light is
    now flashing every few seconds, might loose that ability soon.


    --

    http://www.eglobe1.com/index.php/2006/09/02/unbelievable-pictures/
     
    , Sep 2, 2006
    #63
  4. .

    Guest

    wrote:

    > Some power supplies shut down when the voltage request goes too high;


    What's a "voltage request"?

    > IE: ground out condition, sure.


    Isn't that a current request?
     
    , Sep 2, 2006
    #64
  5. .

    Guest

    wrote:
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Some power supplies shut down when the voltage request goes too high;

    >
    > What's a "voltage request"?


    Shrug, I likely misworded what I meant, sorry...

    > > IE: ground out condition, sure.

    >
    > Isn't that a current request?


    Yes, but with that condition, the resistance level goes thru the roof;
    You basically turn the power supply's connections into a heating
    element. :(
     
    , Sep 3, 2006
    #65
  6. .

    Guest

    wrote:
    > wrote:


    > > > Some power supplies shut down when the voltage request goes too high;

    > >
    > > What's a "voltage request"?

    >
    > Shrug, I likely misworded what I meant, sorry...
    >
    > > > IE: ground out condition, sure.

    > >
    > > Isn't that a current request?

    >
    > Yes, but with that condition, the resistance level goes thru the roof;


    Millions and millions of ohms?

    > You basically turn the power supply's connections into a heating
    > element. :(


    How hot does a PC power connector with megaohms of resistance get?
     
    , Sep 3, 2006
    #66
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