power outage - invalid system disk

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Kamil, May 3, 2004.

  1. Kamil

    Kamil Guest

    This is loads of fun. the power went out for a split second and 2 of the
    computers in my house restarted and now work fine... while one just
    flickered off and came right back on to the desktop... but it was frozen.
    couldnt use the mouse. so i restarted it and now it says on startup that
    there is an invalid system disk. what do i need to do to fix it? should I
    try fdisk /mbr ? i cant format it because theres important data on it....
    and putting it in another computer and copying the data is the last thing i
    wanna do... any suggestions? thanks
    Kamil, May 3, 2004
    #1
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  2. Kamil

    Captain Ron Guest

    I would remove the disk and put in a working computer as a slave. Then you
    should be able to access the drive and copy the data you need. That is of
    course if the drive is not completely dead.
    Captain Ron, May 3, 2004
    #2
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  3. Kamil

    w_tom Guest

    Do not even try to fix anything yet. Simply and first
    collect facts. For example, boot from a diskette or CD-ROM,
    then confirm the disk hardware is intact. Simply read from -
    don't write to - the hard drive. Don't even worry about disk
    software for the moment and definitely do not yet do the fdisk
    /mbr . First establish hardware integrity.

    BTW, if the manufacturer had any value, then his (free)
    comprehensive diagnostics could quickly verify disk and disk
    interface integrity.

    BTW, proper power control and reset circuit design on that
    motherboard should have made the power outage cause a Master
    Reset - reboot the computer without problems. For whatever
    reason, that computer might have a defective-by-design POR
    circuit design.

    What type of OS and what type of filesystem? NTFS or FATxx?

    Kamil wrote:
    > This is loads of fun. the power went out for a split second and 2
    > of the computers in my house restarted and now work fine... while
    > one just flickered off and came right back on to the desktop...
    > but it was frozen. couldnt use the mouse. so i restarted it and
    > now it says on startup that there is an invalid system disk. what
    > do i need to do to fix it? should I try fdisk /mbr ? i cant format
    > it because theres important data on it.... and putting it in
    > another computer and copying the data is the last thing i wanna
    > do... any suggestions? thanks
    w_tom, May 3, 2004
    #3
  4. Kamil

    Kamil Guest

    I booted up to dos with a win98 floppy and i could read the data on the
    drive it just wont boot to the OS (win2000 on a FAT32 partition)

    "w_tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Do not even try to fix anything yet. Simply and first
    > collect facts. For example, boot from a diskette or CD-ROM,
    > then confirm the disk hardware is intact. Simply read from -
    > don't write to - the hard drive. Don't even worry about disk
    > software for the moment and definitely do not yet do the fdisk
    > /mbr . First establish hardware integrity.
    >
    > BTW, if the manufacturer had any value, then his (free)
    > comprehensive diagnostics could quickly verify disk and disk
    > interface integrity.
    >
    > BTW, proper power control and reset circuit design on that
    > motherboard should have made the power outage cause a Master
    > Reset - reboot the computer without problems. For whatever
    > reason, that computer might have a defective-by-design POR
    > circuit design.
    >
    > What type of OS and what type of filesystem? NTFS or FATxx?
    >
    > Kamil wrote:
    > > This is loads of fun. the power went out for a split second and 2
    > > of the computers in my house restarted and now work fine... while
    > > one just flickered off and came right back on to the desktop...
    > > but it was frozen. couldnt use the mouse. so i restarted it and
    > > now it says on startup that there is an invalid system disk. what
    > > do i need to do to fix it? should I try fdisk /mbr ? i cant format
    > > it because theres important data on it.... and putting it in
    > > another computer and copying the data is the last thing i wanna
    > > do... any suggestions? thanks

    >
    Kamil, May 3, 2004
    #4
  5. Kamil

    Jeremy Guest

    Try a cold start first.

    Kamil wrote:
    >
    > This is loads of fun. the power went out for a split second and 2 of the
    > computers in my house restarted and now work fine... while one just
    > flickered off and came right back on to the desktop... but it was frozen.
    > couldnt use the mouse. so i restarted it and now it says on startup that
    > there is an invalid system disk. what do i need to do to fix it? should I
    > try fdisk /mbr ? i cant format it because theres important data on it....
    > and putting it in another computer and copying the data is the last thing i
    > wanna do... any suggestions? thanks
    Jeremy, May 3, 2004
    #5
  6. Kamil

    w_tom Guest

    You have provided important information. First, don't use
    any DOS to write to or repair that hard drive. DOS drive
    repair programs do not understand FAT32 even though it can
    read FAT32 files. Use the Win2000 CD-ROM to execute the setup
    or install program. When it asks (before it will write
    anything to disk), tell setup to repair - not reload - the
    OS. A list of things to verify will including registry and
    boot records. Have it repair the boot records.

    Background: the mbr for Win 2000 (Windows NT type) is
    different from that for other Windows and DOS. Each mbr is
    created unique from hard drive parameters. You must let Win
    2000 setup program construct a unique mbr and verify that
    other unique files exist in the root directory.

    Now for why files may have been deleted. Before even
    Windows 98 existed, MS had already obsoleted FAT filesystems.
    FAT filesystems has numerous weaknesses. They were the quick
    solution to create a working DOS. FAT was obsoleteed by HPFS
    which in turn was obsoleted by NTFS. Before Win 98 was
    created, NTFS had solved problems such as power loss causing
    existing files on FAT hard drive to be erased.

    Once you get everything back, then consider NTFS to avoid
    future problems or get a UPS to protect FAT filesystem data
    from future damage.

    Kamil wrote:
    > I booted up to dos with a win98 floppy and i could read the data
    > on the drive it just wont boot to the OS (win2000 on a FAT32
    > partition)
    w_tom, May 3, 2004
    #6
  7. Kamil

    Kamil Guest

    I got it solved. I ran the recovery console off the Win 2000 CD-ROM and ran
    fixboot. it was simple i wish i would have thought of it in the first place.
    thanks for the help guys

    "w_tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You have provided important information. First, don't use
    > any DOS to write to or repair that hard drive. DOS drive
    > repair programs do not understand FAT32 even though it can
    > read FAT32 files. Use the Win2000 CD-ROM to execute the setup
    > or install program. When it asks (before it will write
    > anything to disk), tell setup to repair - not reload - the
    > OS. A list of things to verify will including registry and
    > boot records. Have it repair the boot records.
    >
    > Background: the mbr for Win 2000 (Windows NT type) is
    > different from that for other Windows and DOS. Each mbr is
    > created unique from hard drive parameters. You must let Win
    > 2000 setup program construct a unique mbr and verify that
    > other unique files exist in the root directory.
    >
    > Now for why files may have been deleted. Before even
    > Windows 98 existed, MS had already obsoleted FAT filesystems.
    > FAT filesystems has numerous weaknesses. They were the quick
    > solution to create a working DOS. FAT was obsoleteed by HPFS
    > which in turn was obsoleted by NTFS. Before Win 98 was
    > created, NTFS had solved problems such as power loss causing
    > existing files on FAT hard drive to be erased.
    >
    > Once you get everything back, then consider NTFS to avoid
    > future problems or get a UPS to protect FAT filesystem data
    > from future damage.
    >
    > Kamil wrote:
    > > I booted up to dos with a win98 floppy and i could read the data
    > > on the drive it just wont boot to the OS (win2000 on a FAT32
    > > partition)

    >
    Kamil, May 4, 2004
    #7
  8. Kamil

    w_tom Guest

    Now use the convert program to change that FAT32 filesystem
    to NTFS. NTFS eliminates future disk problems so common with
    FAT filesystems. For example, NTFS does not even use
    Scandis. NTFS filesystems are so robust as to even repair
    themselves.

    Kamil wrote:
    > I got it solved. I ran the recovery console off the Win 2000
    > CD-ROM and ran fixboot. it was simple i wish i would have
    > thought of it in the first place. thanks for the help guys
    w_tom, May 4, 2004
    #8
  9. Kamil

    derek / nul Guest

    On Tue, 04 May 2004 18:16:49 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:

    > Now use the convert program to change that FAT32 filesystem
    >to NTFS. NTFS eliminates future disk problems so common with
    >FAT filesystems.


    Some of the problems

    > For example, NTFS does not even use Scandis.


    No, they use chkdsk

    > NTFS filesystems are so robust as to even repair themselves.


    Sometimes
    derek / nul, May 5, 2004
    #9
  10. On Wed, 05 May 2004 09:07:09 +1000, derek / nul <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 04 May 2004 18:16:49 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:
    >
    >> Now use the convert program to change that FAT32 filesystem
    >>to NTFS. NTFS eliminates future disk problems so common with
    >>FAT filesystems.

    >
    >Some of the problems
    >
    >> For example, NTFS does not even use Scandis.

    >
    >No, they use chkdsk
    >
    >> NTFS filesystems are so robust as to even repair themselves.

    >
    >Sometimes


    W_Tom is a very well known usenet kook. He has been known to post advice that
    could literally kill people by electrocution, yet he will NEVER acknowlege he is
    wrong regardless of proof presented. To say he is dangerous is pobably an
    understatement.

    Expect him to respond to this with his usual crap about no one else knowing what
    THEY are talking about. He's a fruitcake, and a menace.

    BB
    BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com, May 5, 2004
    #10
  11. Kamil

    Kamil Guest

    I was wondering when this post would finally get to this point. everyone has
    to argue all the time. Well dont wate your time. I am not converting to NTFS
    anyways because i need dos to read the partition so thanks for letting me
    know tom but no thanks.


    <BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 05 May 2004 09:07:09 +1000, derek / nul <>

    wrote:
    >
    > >On Tue, 04 May 2004 18:16:49 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Now use the convert program to change that FAT32 filesystem
    > >>to NTFS. NTFS eliminates future disk problems so common with
    > >>FAT filesystems.

    > >
    > >Some of the problems
    > >
    > >> For example, NTFS does not even use Scandis.

    > >
    > >No, they use chkdsk
    > >
    > >> NTFS filesystems are so robust as to even repair themselves.

    > >
    > >Sometimes

    >
    > W_Tom is a very well known usenet kook. He has been known to post advice

    that
    > could literally kill people by electrocution, yet he will NEVER acknowlege

    he is
    > wrong regardless of proof presented. To say he is dangerous is pobably an
    > understatement.
    >
    > Expect him to respond to this with his usual crap about no one else

    knowing what
    > THEY are talking about. He's a fruitcake, and a menace.
    >
    > BB
    >
    >
    >
    Kamil, May 5, 2004
    #11
  12. Kamil

    w_tom Guest

    I also use some old DOS programs on many NT systems. I
    setup a small FAT partition so that I can run DOS programs
    that must directly access hardware - therefore cannot run on
    Windows NT. Should I need to read files on the NTFS
    partition, I use a free utility provided by
    http://www.sysinternals.com/ called NTFSDOS. A better
    version (that costs money) lets DOS write to the NTFS
    filesystem.

    Do not use DOS on a FAT32 partition. It will appear to
    work. Then suddenly FAT32 corruption is created by DOS. DOS
    must have FAT12 or FAT16 partitions. DOS can cause mysterious
    problems to FAT32 partitions.

    Kamil wrote:
    > I was wondering when this post would finally get to this point.
    > everyone has to argue all the time. Well dont wate your time. I
    > am not converting to NTFS anyways because i need dos to read the
    > partition so thanks for letting me know tom but no thanks.
    w_tom, May 5, 2004
    #12
  13. On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:53:07 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:

    > Do not use DOS on a FAT32 partition. It will appear to
    >work. Then suddenly FAT32 corruption is created by DOS. DOS
    >must have FAT12 or FAT16 partitions. DOS can cause mysterious
    >problems to FAT32 partitions.
    >


    More complete nonsense from the master of making things up!

    BB

    >Kamil wrote:
    >> I was wondering when this post would finally get to this point.
    >> everyone has to argue all the time. Well dont wate your time. I
    >> am not converting to NTFS anyways because i need dos to read the
    >> partition so thanks for letting me know tom but no thanks.
    BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com, May 5, 2004
    #13
  14. Kamil

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote in
    news::

    > On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:53:07 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:
    >
    >> Do not use DOS on a FAT32 partition. It will appear to
    >>work. Then suddenly FAT32 corruption is created by DOS. DOS
    >>must have FAT12 or FAT16 partitions. DOS can cause mysterious
    >>problems to FAT32 partitions.
    >>

    >
    > More complete nonsense from the master of making things up!


    He's right. DOS can cause mysterious problems with FAT32 partitions,
    possibly because DOS DOESN'T SUPPORT FAT32 PARTITIONS!

    --
    website: http://www.demonlag.com
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email:
    DeMoN LaG, May 5, 2004
    #14
  15. On 05 May 2004 19:07:12 GMT, DeMoN LaG <> wrote:

    >BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote in
    >news::
    >
    >> On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:53:07 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Do not use DOS on a FAT32 partition. It will appear to
    >>>work. Then suddenly FAT32 corruption is created by DOS. DOS
    >>>must have FAT12 or FAT16 partitions. DOS can cause mysterious
    >>>problems to FAT32 partitions.
    >>>

    >>
    >> More complete nonsense from the master of making things up!

    >
    >He's right. DOS can cause mysterious problems with FAT32 partitions,
    >possibly because DOS DOESN'T SUPPORT FAT32 PARTITIONS!


    The versions of win9x that support fat32 include a version of dos that supports
    fat32. Nothing mysterious about it.

    BB
    BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com, May 5, 2004
    #15
  16. Kamil

    VWWall Guest

    DeMoN LaG wrote:

    > BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote in
    > news::
    >
    >
    >>On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:53:07 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Do not use DOS on a FAT32 partition. It will appear to
    >>>work. Then suddenly FAT32 corruption is created by DOS. DOS
    >>>must have FAT12 or FAT16 partitions. DOS can cause mysterious
    >>>problems to FAT32 partitions.
    >>>

    >>
    >>More complete nonsense from the master of making things up!

    >
    >
    > He's right. DOS can cause mysterious problems with FAT32 partitions,
    > possibly because DOS DOESN'T SUPPORT FAT32 PARTITIONS!
    >

    DOS 7.x do! I have a FAT32 partition, with which DOS7.x has no trouble,
    even from a DOS window in Win98.

    Even debug, which is about as close to the metal you can get, works OK.
    I haven't ever seen any "mysterious problems". When I first got Win98,
    I made a FAT16 partition for my old DOS programs. Now I routinely run
    old DOS programs like SuperCalc 5, from a FAT32 partition. I can even
    copy data to/from FAT12 floppies.

    You do have to be sure not to use old DOS16 programs that directly
    access a FAT32 partition. This is lousy programming with any OS. There
    are some new DOS programs that work with FAT32 disk partitions directly.

    Virg Wall
    --

    It is vain to do with more
    what can be done with fewer.
    William of Occam.
    VWWall, May 5, 2004
    #16
  17. On Wed, 05 May 2004 20:57:58 GMT, VWWall <> wrote:

    >DeMoN LaG wrote:
    >
    >> BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote in
    >> news::
    >>
    >>
    >>>On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:53:07 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Do not use DOS on a FAT32 partition. It will appear to
    >>>>work. Then suddenly FAT32 corruption is created by DOS. DOS
    >>>>must have FAT12 or FAT16 partitions. DOS can cause mysterious
    >>>>problems to FAT32 partitions.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>More complete nonsense from the master of making things up!

    >>
    >>
    >> He's right. DOS can cause mysterious problems with FAT32 partitions,
    >> possibly because DOS DOESN'T SUPPORT FAT32 PARTITIONS!
    >>

    >DOS 7.x do! I have a FAT32 partition, with which DOS7.x has no trouble,
    >even from a DOS window in Win98.
    >
    >Even debug, which is about as close to the metal you can get, works OK.
    >I haven't ever seen any "mysterious problems". When I first got Win98,
    >I made a FAT16 partition for my old DOS programs. Now I routinely run
    >old DOS programs like SuperCalc 5, from a FAT32 partition. I can even
    > copy data to/from FAT12 floppies.
    >
    >You do have to be sure not to use old DOS16 programs that directly
    >access a FAT32 partition. This is lousy programming with any OS. There
    >are some new DOS programs that work with FAT32 disk partitions directly.
    >
    >Virg Wall


    I think some people confuse "long file names support" with "fat32 support". They
    are two very separate things. Nothing is mysterious if you know what is going
    on.

    BB
    BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com, May 5, 2004
    #17
  18. Kamil

    VWWall Guest

    BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:

    > On Wed, 05 May 2004 20:57:58 GMT, VWWall <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>DeMoN LaG wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote in
    >>>news::
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:53:07 -0400, w_tom <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Do not use DOS on a FAT32 partition. It will appear to
    >>>>>work. Then suddenly FAT32 corruption is created by DOS. DOS
    >>>>>must have FAT12 or FAT16 partitions. DOS can cause mysterious
    >>>>>problems to FAT32 partitions.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>More complete nonsense from the master of making things up!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>He's right. DOS can cause mysterious problems with FAT32 partitions,
    >>>possibly because DOS DOESN'T SUPPORT FAT32 PARTITIONS!
    >>>

    >>
    >>DOS 7.x do! I have a FAT32 partition, with which DOS7.x has no trouble,
    >>even from a DOS window in Win98.
    >>
    >>Even debug, which is about as close to the metal you can get, works OK.
    >>I haven't ever seen any "mysterious problems". When I first got Win98,
    >>I made a FAT16 partition for my old DOS programs. Now I routinely run
    >>old DOS programs like SuperCalc 5, from a FAT32 partition. I can even
    >> copy data to/from FAT12 floppies.
    >>
    >>You do have to be sure not to use old DOS16 programs that directly
    >>access a FAT32 partition. This is lousy programming with any OS. There
    >>are some new DOS programs that work with FAT32 disk partitions directly.
    >>
    >>Virg Wall

    >
    >
    > I think some people confuse "long file names support" with "fat32 support". They
    > are two very separate things. Nothing is mysterious if you know what is going
    > on.


    You can even have the best, (or better anyway), of both worlds. Get
    Odi's LFN Tools from:

    http://www.odi.ch/

    Worth having around if you still work in both worlds.

    Virg Wall
    --

    It is vain to do with more
    what can be done with fewer.
    William of Occam.
    VWWall, May 5, 2004
    #18
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