Power controller chip to turn on ATX

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Al, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. Al

    Al Guest

    Hi Guys,

    I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.

    I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.

    I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    to start up.

    I am trying to find this IC.

    I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    possible labelled.

    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082

    Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    it to turn on? Someone else suggested this function was handled on the
    CPU since P4, but I am not sure about that.

    Thanks


    -Al

    RT9237 : http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=RT9237
    93705CF : http://www.ic2ic.com/search.jsp?sSe...3705CF&prefix=9
    952001AF : http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.js...chword=952001AF
    2N03L : http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=2N03L08
    LD117 : http://www.st.com/stonline/products...fo/ld1117_1.htm
    RT9602 : http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=RT9602
    Al, Oct 27, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Al

    david Guest

    On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:03:07 -0700, Al rearranged some electrons to say:

    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    > like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    > nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.
    >
    > I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    > GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.
    >
    > I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    > from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    > to start up.
    >
    > I am trying to find this IC.
    >
    > I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    > possible labelled.
    >
    > http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082
    >
    > Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    > it to turn on? Someone else suggested this function was handled on the
    > CPU since P4, but I am not sure about that.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    >
    > -Al
    >



    I would check first that you have the power button wired correctly.
    david, Oct 27, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Al

    Grinder Guest

    Al wrote:
    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    > like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    > nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.
    >
    > I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    > GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.
    >
    > I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    > from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    > to start up.
    >
    > I am trying to find this IC.
    >
    > I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    > possible labelled.
    >
    > http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082
    >
    > Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    > it to turn on? Someone else suggested this function was handled on the
    > CPU since P4, but I am not sure about that.


    If you short the power button pins on the motherboard's front panel
    header, will it start up?

    I'm sorry I can't be more specific about where those pins are as I don't
    know what motherboard you have. (I don't have a badcaps.net login.) If
    you identify the motherboard, I can give you a more specific answer.
    Grinder, Oct 27, 2009
    #3
  4. Al

    Desk Rabbit Guest

    Al wrote:
    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    > like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    > nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.
    >
    > I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    > GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.
    >
    > I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    > from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    > to start up.
    >
    > I am trying to find this IC.


    Assumming you can identify the chip, and assuming you can safely
    unsolder it without breaking the board and assuming you can solder the
    new one in without breaking it or the board, I'd suggest a new mother board.

    > I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    > possible labelled.
    >
    > http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082


    Give us a login and we will be able to view that.
    Desk Rabbit, Oct 27, 2009
    #4
  5. Al

    Paul Guest

    Al wrote:
    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    > like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    > nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.
    >
    > I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    > GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.
    >
    > I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    > from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    > to start up.
    >
    > I am trying to find this IC.
    >
    > I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    > possible labelled.
    >
    > http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082
    >
    > Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    > it to turn on? Someone else suggested this function was handled on the
    > CPU since P4, but I am not sure about that.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    >
    > -Al
    >
    > RT9237 : http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=RT9237
    > 93705CF : http://www.ic2ic.com/search.jsp?sSe...3705CF&prefix=9
    > 952001AF : http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.js...chword=952001AF
    > 2N03L : http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=2N03L08
    > LD117 : http://www.st.com/stonline/products...fo/ld1117_1.htm
    > RT9602 : http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=RT9602


    Any chance of posting the badcaps image, on one of the free image hosting
    sites ?

    In terms of your notion of figuring it all out, based on a picture,
    that isn't likely to happen.

    I have three reference schematics here, and they all implement that
    function in a different manner.

    First off all, there is a whole chain of logic associated with that
    function. It includes the Southbridge (Wake on USB keyboard, Wake on
    scheduled RTC time, Wake on PME from PCI bus), the SuperI/O
    (Wake on Ring on serial port, Wake on PS/2 keyboard keypress), plus
    some external jelly bean logic. Those chips contribute reasons why
    the power should be switched on.

    One schematic, uses a 2N3904 transistor as the interface to pin 14
    on the 20 pin ATX power connector. The interface is open collector
    logic, so a transistor can be used as the driver.

    Another one, uses a Fairchild 14 pin TTL logic chip, with open
    collector output drive, to control the signal on pin 14.

    The third schematic uses a custom chip, with no data available,
    to drive the signal directly.

    So even if you do post a picture of the motherboard, and the
    resolution of the picture is high enough to read all the chips,
    it still may not be possible to guess at the method. Chips don't
    have to be placed in proximity to the driven thing. So you
    won't necessarily see the "guilty party" sitting right next
    to the 20 pin connector. There is no requirement in a layout,
    that a driving chip be placed right next to the load. It
    could be all the way across the motherboard, on the other
    side of the board.

    Paul
    Paul, Oct 27, 2009
    #5
  6. Al

    Al Guest

    On Oct 28, 4:34 am, Paul <> wrote:
    > Al wrote:
    > > Hi Guys,

    >
    > > I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    > > like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    > > nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.

    >
    > > I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    > > GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.

    >
    > > I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    > > from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    > > to start up.

    >
    > > I am trying to find this IC.

    >
    > > I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    > > possible labelled.

    >
    > >http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082

    >
    > > Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    > > it to turn on? Someone else suggested this function was handled on the
    > > CPU since P4, but I am not sure about that.

    >
    > > Thanks

    >
    > > -Al

    >
    > > RT9237 :http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=RT9237
    > > 93705CF :http://www.ic2ic.com/search.jsp?sSe...3705CF&prefix=9
    > > 952001AF :http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.js...chword=952001AF
    > > 2N03L :http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=2N03L08
    > > LD117 :http://www.st.com/stonline/products...fo/ld1117_1.htm
    > > RT9602 :http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=RT9602

    >
    > Any chance of posting the badcaps image, on one of the free image hosting
    > sites ?
    >
    > In terms of your notion of figuring it all out, based on a picture,
    > that isn't likely to happen.
    >
    > I have three reference schematics here, and they all implement that
    > function in a different manner.
    >
    > First off all, there is a whole chain of logic associated with that
    > function. It includes the Southbridge (Wake on USB keyboard, Wake on
    > scheduled RTC time, Wake on PME from PCI bus), the SuperI/O
    > (Wake on Ring on serial port, Wake on PS/2 keyboard keypress), plus
    > some external jelly bean logic. Those chips contribute reasons why
    > the power should be switched on.
    >
    > One schematic, uses a 2N3904 transistor as the interface to pin 14
    > on the 20 pin ATX power connector. The interface is open collector
    > logic, so a transistor can be used as the driver.
    >
    > Another one, uses a Fairchild 14 pin TTL logic chip, with open
    > collector output drive, to control the signal on pin 14.
    >
    > The third schematic uses a custom chip, with no data available,
    > to drive the signal directly.
    >
    > So even if you do post a picture of the motherboard, and the
    > resolution of the picture is high enough to read all the chips,
    > it still may not be possible to guess at the method. Chips don't
    > have to be placed in proximity to the driven thing. So you
    > won't necessarily see the "guilty party" sitting right next
    > to the 20 pin connector. There is no requirement in a layout,
    > that a driving chip be placed right next to the load. It
    > could be all the way across the motherboard, on the other
    > side of the board.
    >
    >     Paul


    Paul,

    Thanks for the very detailed replay.My bad for not remembering bad
    caps wouldnt allow you to view the image.

    Here is the image: http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4540/dsc04544a.jpg

    The motherboard is a Elite group L4S5MG/651 + V5.01

    In addition to the other components:

    GS 78L05N (just aboce molex, 3 pin volt regulator)
    NEC K3296 MoSFET
    STLAB LD1117 (volatage regulator)

    But the one that seemed most likely was the RT9237 MULTIPHASE DC/
    DCCONTROLLER FOR CPU PWR SUPPLY

    This help any?

    And for those suggetsing bin it, yes I can do that, but there is no
    learning in that!

    -Al
    Al, Oct 27, 2009
    #6
  7. Al

    Al Guest

    On Oct 28, 2:46 am, Meat Plow <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:03:07 -0700 (PDT), Al
    > <>wrote:
    >
    > >Hi Guys,

    >
    > >I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    > >like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    > >nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.

    >
    > Dried out electrolytic capacitors in the RAM/CPU voltage regulation
    > circuit. Toss the fucking mobo in the trash or send it to be
    > re-capped.


    Yeah, thats been suggested. There are no signs of bulding or venting.

    I took one of them off (they are OST brand) and checked it with my ESR
    meter. It had ESR of 0.02 so prob stll good and was pretty close to
    itrs rated 470uf (it was at about 5300uf).

    I know that to be sure I really need to test them all, Not sure if
    this would cause my symptom tho?

    -Al
    Al, Oct 27, 2009
    #7
  8. Al

    Al Guest

    On Oct 27, 10:09 pm, Grinder <> wrote:
    > Al wrote:
    > > Hi Guys,

    >
    > > I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    > > like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    > > nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.

    >
    > > I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    > > GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.

    >
    > > I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    > > from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    > > to start up.

    >
    > > I am trying to find this IC.

    >
    > > I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    > > possible labelled.

    >
    > >http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082

    >
    > > Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    > > it to turn on? Someone else suggested this function was handled on the
    > > CPU since P4, but I am not sure about that.

    >
    > If you short the power button pins on the motherboard's front panel
    > header, will it start up?
    >
    > I'm sorry I can't be more specific about where those pins are as I don't
    > know what motherboard you have.  (I don't have a badcaps.net login.)  If
    > you identify the motherboard, I can give you a more specific answer.


    Yep good suggestion and yes I have done that.
    Al, Oct 27, 2009
    #8
  9. Al

    Grinder Guest

    Al wrote:
    > On Oct 27, 10:09 pm, Grinder <> wrote:
    >> Al wrote:
    >>> Hi Guys,
    >>> I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    >>> like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    >>> nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.
    >>> I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    >>> GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.
    >>> I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    >>> from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    >>> to start up.
    >>> I am trying to find this IC.
    >>> I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    >>> possible labelled.
    >>> http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082
    >>> Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    >>> it to turn on? Someone else suggested this function was handled on the
    >>> CPU since P4, but I am not sure about that.

    >> If you short the power button pins on the motherboard's front panel
    >> header, will it start up?
    >>
    >> I'm sorry I can't be more specific about where those pins are as I don't
    >> know what motherboard you have. (I don't have a badcaps.net login.) If
    >> you identify the motherboard, I can give you a more specific answer.

    >
    > Yep good suggestion and yes I have done that.


    Did the PC startup? I guess it must not have if you still consider the
    motherboard to have a problem.

    If there is a chip that is bad, as you've suggested, it's unlikely that
    you'll be able to affect a repair. Since you've tried another power
    supply already, it's getting near to the point where you have to cut
    your losses.
    Grinder, Oct 27, 2009
    #9
  10. Al

    Guest

    Al <> wrote:

    >Hi Guys,
    >
    >I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    >like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    >nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.
    >
    >I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    >GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.
    >
    >I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    >from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    >to start up.


    Or the power supply,
    http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/sup/funcPowerGood-c.html

    Monitor the Gray wire (+5V & +3.3V is ok).

    -Also-

    You short purple (not Green, Green is the wrong wire).

    "Why the computer/fan does not turn on after flipping the power
    supply's switch to the ON position?
    ATX power supplies differ from AT power supplies in several important
    regards. Major among these is that ATX supplies depend on logic
    circuits on the motherboard to turn it on. Once the power switch is
    flipped, the power switch on the ATX power supply (some ATX power
    supplies do not even have such a switch), the ATX power supply sends a
    5V 720MA current to the motherboard through pin 9 on the power
    connector. That current is for WOL (Wake-up On Lan) and power on
    circuits. A power-on jumper on the motherboard connects to the
    pushbutton located in front of ATX case. When the pushbutton is
    pressed, it sends a signal to the motherboard, which in turn notifies
    the ATX power supply to turn on full power. The location of the
    power-on jumper on the motherboard is manufacture dependent. One needs
    to read the motherboard manual to locate that jumper. At any event, do
    not try to manually jump-start the power supply without attaching the
    motherboard. The power supply is expecting certain sensing circuit
    feedback to regulate the output voltage, manually starting it without
    attaching it to the motherboard could cause damage to the power
    supply."

    http://www.bluemax.net/techtips/ATXPowerSupplyWiring/ATXPowerSupplyWiring.htm
    I have always linked this page, it appears to be no more.

    It was a very good site on ATX power supplies, I have the web pages of
    interest if you want them.

    I have a digital DC voltage display with two clips on long wires, just
    made for something like this. I was given two of them, each had
    instructions to wire them for different functions - I went with DC
    voltage.
    - very nice to have handy to monitor voltages.-
    --

    You've got three months to grab what you need.
    http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-ordered-to-delete-torrents-091022/
    And
    http://gizmodo.com/5387909/hulus-glorious-free-days-are-officially-numbered
    , Oct 28, 2009
    #10
  11. Al

    Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > Al <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi Guys,
    >>
    >> I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    >> like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    >> nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.
    >>
    >> I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    >> GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.
    >>
    >> I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    >>from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    >> to start up.

    >
    > Or the power supply,
    > http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/sup/funcPowerGood-c.html
    >
    > Monitor the Gray wire (+5V & +3.3V is ok).
    >
    > -Also-
    >
    > You short purple (not Green, Green is the wrong wire).
    >


    You can get official wire colors, from the Intel specifications
    stored on the formfactors.org site.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20030424...org/developer/specs/atx/ATX_ATX12V_PS_1_1.pdf (page 27)

    http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx/ATX12V_1_3dg.pdf (page 30)

    http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf (page 37)

    PS_ON#, the signal you ground to start an ATX power supply, is green.

    The purple colored wire is listed as "+5VSB" and you don't want to
    short that. It is a power output, not a control signal.

    *******

    To drive PS_ON#, doesn't take a massive driver. The specs above, list
    a sinking current requirement of 1.6ma. In cases where there is a
    problem, it could be causes by the power supply being out of
    spec on that parameter. On the reference motherboard schematics
    I have here, some of the driving solutions could handle
    a lot more current than that, so whoever the designer was, they
    didn't take chances.

    Paul
    Paul, Oct 28, 2009
    #11
  12. Al

    chuckcar Guest

    Al <> wrote in
    news::

    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I have got a mobo here that is dead. I have done all the usual stuff
    > like trying new PSU, bench testing etc. Its dead - as in no fans, no
    > nothing when you hit PWR button - PSU doesnt even come on.
    >
    > I connected the ATX molex from the PSU and shorted Green (PWR ON) with
    > GND on the molex and the PC came on. All seemed fine.
    >
    > I think there is a IC on the motherboard between the PWR BTN headers
    > from the power on switch and the ATX header on the mobo that tells PSU
    > to start up.
    >
    > I am trying to find this IC.
    >
    > I have attached a image of the mobo with some of the IC's that seem
    > possible labelled.
    >
    > http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12082
    >
    > Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    > it to turn on? Someone else suggested this function was handled on the
    > CPU since P4, but I am not sure about that.
    >

    You *have* taken out all RAM and replace the CPU to test it right? If so,
    either replace capacitors or chuck it.


    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
    chuckcar, Oct 28, 2009
    #12
  13. Al

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:03:07 -0700 (PDT), Al <> put
    finger to keyboard and composed:

    >Interested to know if anyone knows which IC controls the PSU and tells
    >it to turn on?


    Use a multimeter on the diode range to buzz the PCB.

    Connect one probe to the PS_ON pin in the ATX connector and connect a
    large sized square of aluminium foil to the other probe. Then press
    the foil against whole ICs, or whole sections of the PCB, until you
    get continuity.

    Not my idea - I think I first saw it at sci.electronics.repair.


    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
    Franc Zabkar, Oct 29, 2009
    #13
  14. Al

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:33:18 -0700 (PDT), Al <> put
    finger to keyboard and composed:

    >Paul,
    >
    >Thanks for the very detailed replay.My bad for not remembering bad
    >caps wouldnt allow you to view the image.
    >
    >Here is the image: http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4540/dsc04544a.jpg
    >
    >The motherboard is a Elite group L4S5MG/651 + V5.01
    >
    >In addition to the other components:
    >
    >GS 78L05N (just aboce molex, 3 pin volt regulator)


    That's probably supplying a noise free +5V rail to the onboard sound
    chip ... for electret microphone biasing.

    >NEC K3296 MoSFET


    2SK3296

    >STLAB LD1117 (volatage regulator)


    I suspect this linear regulator may be reducing the +5VSB voltage to
    +3.3VSB. If you measure the voltages at the on/off header, I suspect
    you will find +3.3VSB rather than +5VSB.

    >But the one that seemed most likely was the RT9237 MULTIPHASE DC/
    >DCCONTROLLER FOR CPU PWR SUPPLY
    >
    >This help any?
    >
    >And for those suggetsing bin it, yes I can do that, but there is no
    >learning in that!
    >
    >-Al


    Good on you!

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
    Franc Zabkar, Oct 29, 2009
    #14
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    walterbyrd, Jul 29, 2003, in forum: A+ Certification
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    Micro ATX -- Full ATX Compatibility?

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    Views:
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