Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to India?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by DigitalCameraBasics, Nov 6, 2003.

  1. There have been a couple of very interesting stories on U.S. TV news shows
    about how somewhat quietly, more and more companies are outsourcing their
    customer service calls directly to call centers in India. The reason being
    that it's about 1/4th the cost to pay them as opposed to skilled American
    workers. Numbers varied a bit per report, but it is estimated that so far
    tens of thousands of white collar American jobs have been lost as
    service/tech reps have been laid off to be replaced by the Indian call
    centers.

    Dell Computers is bad about this. Even in mid-day hours, you will get
    transferred to India, and must endure people who seem to have never spoken
    English at all as their accents are so bad you cannot make out a thing they
    are saying. Smaller companies such as Netgear and Linksys are also doing
    this. During one story, when a reporter asked the C.E.O. about what he
    thought regarding all of the complaints U.S. callers were making about this,
    his reply was, "Oh well".

    I'm curious as to whether anyone has come across a site that actually
    maintains a list of U.S. companies that are outsourcing their calls like
    this? If not, I'm considering making a list of my own and posting it on my
    site. The fact that so many jobs are lost while C.E.O.s are making tens of
    millions of dollars in yearly salaries (literally) is disturbing. What's
    moreso, is that these companies think so little about their customers that
    they think it's ok to subject a caller to someone who speaks broken English
    at best, and in an accent so heavy one must ask, "what? what?? WHAT???" ,
    in order to understand what is being said to them. A list would help
    potential buyers decide if they wish to give that particular company their
    money or not.

    Any lists already out there? If not, what companies are you aware of that
    do this?

    Thanks
    DigitalCameraBasics, Nov 6, 2003
    #1
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  2. DigitalCameraBasics

    Guest

    Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    On Thu, 06 Nov 2003, "DigitalCameraBasics"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >Any lists already out there? If not, what companies are you aware of that
    >do this?
    >



    Amazon: some calls go to India
    Circuit City: every call goes to India (check out the photo on their
    homepage, they don't try to hide it at all)

    (and naturally, some reverse-racist twit will call you a racist, even as
    more and more jobs go to India. Computer programmers, of course, are hit
    very hard. Maybe the proliferation of crash-prone software, like AOL's, is
    due to Indian programmers doing the lion's shate of the work.)
    , Nov 6, 2003
    #2
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  3. Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    They can call me what they will.

    I have no problem talking to someone who was born in another country on a
    tech call that originates HERE. There are two things I think SHOULD be
    going on...

    1) Buy it in the U.S. from a U.S. company, then if you call for customer
    service or tech assistance, the call should be received by a U.S. call
    center which employs U.S. citizens, or, those working in the U.S. on a valid
    Visa or work permit.

    2) I could care less if anyone was born in another country or not, however,
    you are an idiot for applying for a job here, if you cannot speak English
    clearly. Moreso, the company that hires you is a bigger idiot. Where the
    person who answers the phone is from originally is not a concern to me.
    What is, is that the jobs for service support are kept HERE, and that the
    people answering the phones can be clearly understood by the caller.

    If a company does not meet these two simple things, then I'm going to start
    seeking out those who do to give my money to, even if it's an inconvenience
    for me.


    Greg


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 06 Nov 2003, "DigitalCameraBasics"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Any lists already out there? If not, what companies are you aware of

    that
    > >do this?
    > >

    >
    >
    > Amazon: some calls go to India
    > Circuit City: every call goes to India (check out the photo on their
    > homepage, they don't try to hide it at all)
    >
    > (and naturally, some reverse-racist twit will call you a racist, even as
    > more and more jobs go to India. Computer programmers, of course, are hit
    > very hard. Maybe the proliferation of crash-prone software, like AOL's, is
    > due to Indian programmers doing the lion's shate of the work.)
    >
    >
    DigitalCameraBasics, Nov 6, 2003
    #3
  4. DigitalCameraBasics

    Rick Guest

    Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    <> wrote in message news:...
    > On Thu, 06 Nov 2003, "DigitalCameraBasics"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Any lists already out there? If not, what companies are you aware of that
    > >do this?

    >
    > Amazon: some calls go to India
    > Circuit City: every call goes to India (check out the photo on their
    > homepage, they don't try to hide it at all)
    >
    > (and naturally, some reverse-racist twit will call you a racist, even as
    > more and more jobs go to India. Computer programmers, of course, are hit
    > very hard. Maybe the proliferation of crash-prone software, like AOL's, is
    > due to Indian programmers doing the lion's shate of the work.)


    Earthlink: most phone support calls are now routed to India.

    HPQ: phone and online messaging support for some products
    now routed to India.

    Rick
    Rick, Nov 6, 2003
    #4
  5. DigitalCameraBasics

    Shaun Guest

    Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:43:10 +0000, DigitalCameraBasics wrote:

    > They can call me what they will.
    >
    > I have no problem talking to someone who was born in another country on a
    > tech call that originates HERE. There are two things I think SHOULD be
    > going on...
    >
    > 1) Buy it in the U.S. from a U.S. company, then if you call for customer
    > service or tech assistance, the call should be received by a U.S. call
    > center which employs U.S. citizens, or, those working in the U.S. on a valid
    > Visa or work permit.
    >
    > 2) I could care less if anyone was born in another country or not, however,
    > you are an idiot for applying for a job here, if you cannot speak English
    > clearly. Moreso, the company that hires you is a bigger idiot. Where the
    > person who answers the phone is from originally is not a concern to me.
    > What is, is that the jobs for service support are kept HERE, and that the
    > people answering the phones can be clearly understood by the caller.
    >
    > If a company does not meet these two simple things, then I'm going to start
    > seeking out those who do to give my money to, even if it's an inconvenience
    > for me.
    >
    >
    > Greg
    >


    As far as I can tell, for most services it's now required to have
    spanish-language services along side english-language ones (correct me if
    I'm wrong, I've been in the US for just under 2 years now .. still
    learning). Based on that I think it's a perfectly just point to want the
    english-language service to actually speak good English. I won't comment
    on foreigners taking American jobs for obvious reasons, but I do believe
    that in jobs such as this, where communication skills are almost as
    important as the answers you're giving, such out-sourcing does seem to be
    disasterous.

    It draws a curious comparison to Work Visas .. they'll only give you a
    visa to fill an American job if there's a shortage of citizens / residents
    able to fill the position. In some places it's dairy staff, in others it's
    nurses .. but nowhere would it be acceptable to lay off citizens /
    residents to create the positions. In the age of our so-called "Global
    Village", I can't help but wonder if this is a law that needs to catch up.

    a 2 cent ramble,
    Shaun
    Shaun, Nov 6, 2003
    #5
  6. DigitalCameraBasics

    HRosita Guest

    Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    Hi,

    Here are a few:

    Dell
    Gateway
    AOL


    Rosita
    HRosita, Nov 6, 2003
    #6
  7. DigitalCameraBasics

    Trevor S Guest

    Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    Shaun <> wrote in
    news:p:

    <Snip>

    > In the age of our so-called "Global Village", I can't help but wonder if
    > this is a law that needs to catch up.


    Why ? Let the CUSTOMER decide, if they don't like the practice don't shop
    there, or buy their product.

    For <insert deity of choice> sake, don't let the Government interfer, all
    they will do is screw it up !

    As an asdie, it seems odd to moi that the proponents captalism are now
    advocating socalism when it suits them ? Same thing with the overly
    protected US Ag industries, seems like a waste of dollars to prop them up,
    they either get efficent (they have the home town advantage !) or go
    under....

    --
    Trevor S


    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    -Albert Einstein
    Trevor S, Nov 6, 2003
    #7
  8. DigitalCameraBasics

    FOR7b Guest

    Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    >As far as I can tell, for most services it's now required to have
    >spanish-language services along side english-language ones (correct me if
    >I'm wrong, I've been in the US for just under 2 years now .. still
    >learning).



    Nope, that is wrong. If any company provides alternative languages for their
    customers it is simply because they are catering to them. There are no foreign
    language requirements for businesses. I doubt there are any for government
    either. Frankly there is too much catering to other languages as it is making
    lazy immigrants that much less likely to learn english within a reasonable
    amount of time as they should.


    > Based on that I think it's a perfectly just point to want the
    >english-language service to actually speak good English. I won't comment
    >on foreigners taking American jobs for obvious reasons, but I do believe
    >that in jobs such as this, where communication skills are almost as
    >important as the answers you're giving, such out-sourcing does seem to be
    >disasterous.


    > Shaun
    >



    I've already been through that twice. I think they were both from India too. I
    could barely understand them. They had to constantly repeat themselves after I
    kept telling them that I had no idea what they had just said. I couldn't
    imagine them lasting for too long.





    FOR7b, Nov 6, 2003
    #8
  9. DigitalCameraBasics

    FOR7b Guest

    Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    >Why ? Let the CUSTOMER decide, if they don't like the practice don't shop
    >there, or buy their product.
    >
    >For <insert deity of choice> sake, don't let the Government interfer, all
    >they will do is screw it up !
    >
    >As an asdie, it seems odd to moi that the proponents captalism are now
    >advocating socalism when it suits them ? Same thing with the overly
    >protected US Ag industries, seems like a waste of dollars to prop them up,
    >they either get efficent (they have the home town advantage !) or go
    >under....
    >
    >--
    >Trevor S
    >


    Ag subsidies as it relates to foreign competition is a complicated situation as
    a country needs or should be able to ultimately feed itself, especially in
    times of crisis. One could argue it is a strategic and security issue for a
    country to be able to sustain a certain level of food production for its
    citizens. The same thing goes for certain critical industries like steel and
    others. I don't think it is just a simple matter of allowing free trade for
    every industry. You can never have totally free trade in all industries as
    security issues will always come up for ceratin goods and services.




    FOR7b, Nov 6, 2003
    #9
  10. DigitalCameraBasics

    Charlie Self Guest

    Re: Post for U.S. readers: What companies are outsourcing calls to In

    for7b responds:

    >Nope, that is wrong. If any company provides alternative languages for their
    >customers it is simply because they are catering to them. There are no
    >foreign
    >language requirements for businesses. I doubt there are any for government
    >either. Frankly there is too much catering to other languages as it is making
    >lazy immigrants that much less likely to learn english within a reasonable
    >amount of time as they should.


    My liberal views are nearly identical to yours. As a case in point, I don't
    recall anyone stumping to provide Italian translators during the '30s, '40s,
    '50s when the influx from Italia was huge. They learned to speak the language,g
    ot teased umercifully for their accents, and became solid, valuable citizens
    almost immediately. The same was true of the importation of Chinese in huge
    numbers during the '70s, '80s, '90s, for building railroads. Yeah, the 18--s.

    But Spanish is becoming a need in business in the U.S. today, and it is not
    because of huge markets OUTSIDE our borders.

    Charlie Self

    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
    Thomas J. Watson
    Charlie Self, Nov 6, 2003
    #10
  11. DigitalCameraBasics

    Sockmonkey Guest

    > Any lists already out there? If not, what companies are you aware of that
    > do this?


    AT&T outsources to Canada. If you ask them where they are when you are on
    the phone, they will say "North of Seattle" which really means Victoria, BC,
    Canada.

    This goes both ways, Canada has lost more jobs to the US, than the US has to
    Canada, but it is the US that is always complaining and imposing tariffs,
    even though there is supposed to be free trade.

    Maybe it is time for american wages to come down.

    R
    Sockmonkey, Nov 6, 2003
    #11
  12. DigitalCameraBasics

    Don Coon Guest

    "Sockmonkey" <> wrote in message
    news:Zutqb.22475$6A4.11207@edtnps84...
    > > Any lists already out there? If not, what companies are you aware of

    that
    > > do this?

    >
    > AT&T outsources to Canada. If you ask them where they are when you are on
    > the phone, they will say "North of Seattle" which really means Victoria,

    BC,
    > Canada.
    >
    > This goes both ways, Canada has lost more jobs to the US, than the US has

    to
    > Canada, but it is the US that is always complaining and imposing tariffs,
    > even though there is supposed to be free trade.
    >
    > Maybe it is time for american wages to come down.


    Or Canadian wages to go up : )
    Don Coon, Nov 6, 2003
    #12
  13. DigitalCameraBasics

    jean Guest

    Isn't that one way to redistribute wealth to poorer countries?

    Why can't the US companies compete on equal footing with foreing ones
    without crying foul?

    I'm sure you ALWAYS buy american made products, since this is a digital
    camera newsgroup, just look where you mew camera comes from! or be coherent
    with all your views and buy a Kodak, they need your help more than ever.

    Jean

    "DigitalCameraBasics" <> a écrit dans le
    message de news:wKiqb.11736$...
    > There have been a couple of very interesting stories on U.S. TV news shows
    > about how somewhat quietly, more and more companies are outsourcing their
    > customer service calls directly to call centers in India. The reason

    being
    > that it's about 1/4th the cost to pay them as opposed to skilled American
    > workers. Numbers varied a bit per report, but it is estimated that so far
    > tens of thousands of white collar American jobs have been lost as
    > service/tech reps have been laid off to be replaced by the Indian call
    > centers.
    >
    > Dell Computers is bad about this. Even in mid-day hours, you will get
    > transferred to India, and must endure people who seem to have never spoken
    > English at all as their accents are so bad you cannot make out a thing

    they
    > are saying. Smaller companies such as Netgear and Linksys are also doing
    > this. During one story, when a reporter asked the C.E.O. about what he
    > thought regarding all of the complaints U.S. callers were making about

    this,
    > his reply was, "Oh well".
    >
    > I'm curious as to whether anyone has come across a site that actually
    > maintains a list of U.S. companies that are outsourcing their calls like
    > this? If not, I'm considering making a list of my own and posting it on

    my
    > site. The fact that so many jobs are lost while C.E.O.s are making tens

    of
    > millions of dollars in yearly salaries (literally) is disturbing. What's
    > moreso, is that these companies think so little about their customers that
    > they think it's ok to subject a caller to someone who speaks broken

    English
    > at best, and in an accent so heavy one must ask, "what? what?? WHAT???"

    ,
    > in order to understand what is being said to them. A list would help
    > potential buyers decide if they wish to give that particular company their
    > money or not.
    >
    > Any lists already out there? If not, what companies are you aware of that
    > do this?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    >
    >
    jean, Nov 6, 2003
    #13
  14. "Don Coon" <coondw_nospam@hotmail_dot_.com> writes:

    >Or Canadian wages to go up : )


    They have. The Canadian dollar has risen from a low of about 62 cents
    US to about 75 cents now. From the point of view of anyone buying
    Canadian exports, or outsourcing to Canada, that's exactly equivalent to
    about a 20% wage increase.

    Dave
    Dave Martindale, Nov 6, 2003
    #14
  15. DigitalCameraBasics

    Charlie Self Guest

    Jean cries:

    >
    >I'm sure you ALWAYS buy american made products, since this is a digital
    >camera newsgroup, just look where you mew camera comes from! or be coherent
    >with all your views and buy a Kodak, they need your help more than ever.


    Not exactly sure you're someone to be giving lessons on coherence.

    Charlie Self

    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
    Thomas J. Watson
    Charlie Self, Nov 6, 2003
    #15
  16. DigitalCameraBasics

    FOR7b Guest

    >Isn't that one way to redistribute wealth to poorer countries?
    >
    >Why can't the US companies compete on equal footing with foreing ones
    >without crying foul?



    That's funny coming from a European source.


    >
    >I'm sure you ALWAYS buy american made products, since this is a digital
    >camera newsgroup, just look where you mew camera comes from! or be coherent
    >with all your views and buy a Kodak, they need your help more than ever.
    >
    >Jean




    FOR7b, Nov 6, 2003
    #16
  17. DigitalCameraBasics

    jean Guest

    Why is that?

    Jean

    "Charlie Self" <> a écrit dans le message de
    news:...
    > Jean cries:
    >
    > >
    > >I'm sure you ALWAYS buy american made products, since this is a digital
    > >camera newsgroup, just look where you mew camera comes from! or be

    coherent
    > >with all your views and buy a Kodak, they need your help more than ever.

    >
    > Not exactly sure you're someone to be giving lessons on coherence.
    >
    > Charlie Self
    >
    > "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
    > Thomas J. Watson
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    jean, Nov 6, 2003
    #17
  18. DigitalCameraBasics

    jean Guest

    Do not assume from my name I come from europe. I am from Canada and I have
    seen so many times the US cry foul when they get beaten at their own game.
    Since they are the bigger economic power, they impose tariff barriers IN
    SPITE of something they agreed to which is the North American Free Trade
    Agreement (NAFTA). The US even petitioned Canada on imported (to the US)
    tomatoes! As if we never bought lettuce and oranges from florida in winter.

    Jean

    "FOR7b" <> a écrit dans le message de
    news:...
    > >Isn't that one way to redistribute wealth to poorer countries?
    > >
    > >Why can't the US companies compete on equal footing with foreing ones
    > >without crying foul?

    >
    >
    > That's funny coming from a European source.
    >
    >
    > >
    > >I'm sure you ALWAYS buy american made products, since this is a digital
    > >camera newsgroup, just look where you mew camera comes from! or be

    coherent
    > >with all your views and buy a Kodak, they need your help more than ever.
    > >
    > >Jean

    >
    >
    >
    >
    jean, Nov 6, 2003
    #18
  19. DigitalCameraBasics

    FOR7b Guest

    >
    >Do not assume from my name I come from europe. I am from Canada and I have
    >seen so many times the US cry foul when they get beaten at their own game.
    >Since they are the bigger economic power, they impose tariff barriers IN
    >SPITE of something they agreed to which is the North American Free Trade
    >Agreement (NAFTA). The US even petitioned Canada on imported (to the US)
    >tomatoes! As if we never bought lettuce and oranges from florida in winter.
    >
    >Jean


    Your source in your previous post had an Italian connection. Now it is
    different I see. Maybe next time it will be different once again. Who knows.

    All countries eventually "cry foul" when it comes to protecting certain
    markets. Try to keep that in mind before highlighting only what America does.
    It'll make you look more objective too.


    FOR7b, Nov 6, 2003
    #19
  20. DigitalCameraBasics

    jean Guest

    "FOR7b" <> a écrit dans le message de
    news:...
    > >
    > >Do not assume from my name I come from europe. I am from Canada and I

    have
    > >seen so many times the US cry foul when they get beaten at their own

    game.
    > >Since they are the bigger economic power, they impose tariff barriers IN
    > >SPITE of something they agreed to which is the North American Free Trade
    > >Agreement (NAFTA). The US even petitioned Canada on imported (to the US)
    > >tomatoes! As if we never bought lettuce and oranges from florida in

    winter.
    > >
    > >Jean

    >
    > Your source in your previous post had an Italian connection. Now it is
    > different I see. Maybe next time it will be different once again. Who

    knows.

    THAT's news to me ;-)

    >
    > All countries eventually "cry foul" when it comes to protecting certain
    > markets. Try to keep that in mind before highlighting only what America

    does.
    > It'll make you look more objective too.
    >


    The OP was not objective either, he wanted to boycot companies outsourcing
    their help lines to foreign countries. I merely pointed out the incongruity
    of his plea. However big the US economy is, they can't have it all. Others
    have a right to live too.

    Jean
    jean, Nov 7, 2003
    #20
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