pop3.xtra.co.nz down?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Bernard, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. Bernard

    Bernard Guest

    Hi,

    I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    from another ISP.

    This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.

    Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?

    Many thanks,

    Bernard
     
    Bernard, Aug 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. Bernard

    Rich Guest


    > I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    > from another ISP.
    >
    > This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    > cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.
    >
    > Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?



    Telecom have discovered another way to squeeze more money out of people. If
    you want to access an xtra email account from another ISP, you now have to
    pay $x a month. I forget how much it is, but you will need to ring xtra and
    arrange it.
     
    Rich, Aug 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. Bernard

    Bernard Guest

    Thanks a lot, Rich.

    This is outrageous, monopolistic behavior. I use multiple ISPs as a
    backup in case I cannot get through with one.

    Bernard


    "Rich" <> wrote:

    >
    >> I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    >> from another ISP.
    >>
    >> This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    >> cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.
    >>
    >> Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?

    >
    >
    >Telecom have discovered another way to squeeze more money out of people. If
    >you want to access an xtra email account from another ISP, you now have to
    >pay $x a month. I forget how much it is, but you will need to ring xtra and
    >arrange it.
    >
     
    Bernard, Aug 3, 2005
    #3
  4. Bernard

    Richard Guest

    Bernard wrote:

    > Thanks a lot, Rich.
    >
    > This is outrageous, monopolistic behavior. I use multiple ISPs as a
    > backup in case I cannot get through with one.


    They're not the only ones (I believe TelstraClear were charging for
    POP-from-other-ISPs before Xtra started doing it), and it's hardly new -
    the blocking was put in place toward the end of 2001.

    Richard

    > "Rich" <> wrote:
    >
    >>> I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    >>> from another ISP.
    >>>
    >>> This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    >>> cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.
    >>>
    >>> Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?

    >>
    >>
    >>Telecom have discovered another way to squeeze more money out of people. If
    >>you want to access an xtra email account from another ISP, you now have to
    >>pay $x a month. I forget how much it is, but you will need to ring xtra and
    >>arrange it.
     
    Richard, Aug 3, 2005
    #4
  5. Bernard

    Tony Guest

    On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:55:11 +1200, Bernard <> wrote:

    >Hi,
    >
    >I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    >from another ISP.
    >
    >This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    >cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.
    >
    >Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?
    >
    >Many thanks,
    >
    >Bernard




    You will not be able to do it from memory.

    I had the same problem so dropped Xtra like a Hot cake..
     
    Tony, Aug 3, 2005
    #5
  6. Bernard

    Thor Guest

    Rich wrote:

    >
    >> I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    >> from another ISP.
    >>
    >> This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    >> cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.
    >>
    >> Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?

    >
    >
    > Telecom have discovered another way to squeeze more money out of people.
    > If you want to access an xtra email account from another ISP, you now have
    > to pay $x a month. I forget how much it is, but you will need to ring xtra
    > and arrange it.


    Maybe if you are using windows, however I can quite happily send and
    receive my xtra mail via ihug or whoever from linux.




    --
    *~~~~~~~~~~Thor
     
    Thor, Aug 3, 2005
    #6
  7. Bernard

    Rob J Guest

    On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:55:11 +1200, Bernard <> wrote:

    >Hi,
    >
    >I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    >from another ISP.
    >
    >This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    >cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.
    >
    >Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?


    Unless you buy Secure Remote Email ($2.50 / month) Xtra does not allow
    POP access from other ISP's connections.
     
    Rob J, Aug 4, 2005
    #7
  8. Bernard

    Rob J Guest

    On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 18:00:55 +1200, "Rich" <> wrote:

    >
    >> I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    >> from another ISP.
    >>
    >> This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    >> cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.
    >>
    >> Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?

    >
    >
    >Telecom have discovered another way to squeeze more money out of people. If
    >you want to access an xtra email account from another ISP, you now have to
    >pay $x a month. I forget how much it is, but you will need to ring xtra and
    >arrange it.


    No, Telecom have discovered how to recover costs for people who don't
    pay to dialup Xtra to access their email.
     
    Rob J, Aug 4, 2005
    #8
  9. Bernard

    Rob J Guest

    On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:11:22 +1200, Bernard <> wrote:

    >Thanks a lot, Rich.
    >
    >This is outrageous, monopolistic behavior. I use multiple ISPs as a
    >backup in case I cannot get through with one.


    Crap.

    Xtra are entitled to recover the costs of providing the service to
    you. They don't get one cent from you if you don't dial up an Xtra
    connection, as they charge for dialup access, not email use.
     
    Rob J, Aug 4, 2005
    #9
  10. Bernard

    Tony Guest

    On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:26:38 +1200, Rob J <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:11:22 +1200, Bernard <> wrote:
    >
    >>Thanks a lot, Rich.
    >>
    >>This is outrageous, monopolistic behavior. I use multiple ISPs as a
    >>backup in case I cannot get through with one.

    >
    >Crap.
    >
    >Xtra are entitled to recover the costs of providing the service to
    >you. They don't get one cent from you if you don't dial up an Xtra
    >connection, as they charge for dialup access, not email use.
    >




    Bull there are NO COSTS AT ALL.

    This is ALL CRAP.
     
    Tony, Aug 4, 2005
    #10
  11. Bernard

    Mutlley Guest

    Rob J <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:55:11 +1200, Bernard <> wrote:
    >
    >>Hi,
    >>
    >>I have to access an xtra pop3 email account via a dial-up connection
    >>from another ISP.
    >>
    >>This worked a couple of weeks ago, but now (3 August 05 17:53) I
    >>cannot connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz at all.
    >>
    >>Is it down or are there new requirements to connect to this server?

    >
    >Unless you buy Secure Remote Email ($2.50 / month) Xtra does not allow
    >POP access from other ISP's connections.


    Go on line and log into your Xtra account and set a forward all mail
    to your new ISP email address..
     
    Mutlley, Aug 4, 2005
    #11
  12. Bernard

    Crash Guest

    Tony wrote:
    > On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:26:38 +1200, Rob J <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:11:22 +1200, Bernard <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Thanks a lot, Rich.
    >>>
    >>>This is outrageous, monopolistic behavior. I use multiple ISPs as a
    >>>backup in case I cannot get through with one.

    >>
    >>Crap.
    >>
    >>Xtra are entitled to recover the costs of providing the service to
    >>you. They don't get one cent from you if you don't dial up an Xtra
    >>connection, as they charge for dialup access, not email use.
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Bull there are NO COSTS AT ALL.
    >
    > This is ALL CRAP.


    Roger are you seriously suggesting that offering pop3 access costs Telecom
    nothing? Are you seriously suggesting Telecom has no right to charge for a
    service provided? To be consistent then you should be advocating that when Xtra
    customers connect to the Xtra pop server they should never pay anything
    regardless of how they connect.

    The issue here is that if you want to use the Xtra pop server you should have to
    pay for it regardless of how you connect.

    Crash.
     
    Crash, Aug 4, 2005
    #12
  13. Bernard

    Crash Guest

    Crash wrote:
    > Tony wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:26:38 +1200, Rob J <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:11:22 +1200, Bernard <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Thanks a lot, Rich.
    >>>>
    >>>> This is outrageous, monopolistic behavior. I use multiple ISPs as a
    >>>> backup in case I cannot get through with one.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Crap.
    >>>
    >>> Xtra are entitled to recover the costs of providing the service to
    >>> you. They don't get one cent from you if you don't dial up an Xtra
    >>> connection, as they charge for dialup access, not email use.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Bull there are NO COSTS AT ALL.
    >>
    >> This is ALL CRAP.

    >
    >
    > Roger are you seriously suggesting that offering pop3 access costs
    > Telecom nothing? Are you seriously suggesting Telecom has no right to
    > charge for a service provided? To be consistent then you should be
    > advocating that when Xtra customers connect to the Xtra pop server they
    > should never pay anything regardless of how they connect.
    >
    > The issue here is that if you want to use the Xtra pop server you should
    > have to pay for it regardless of how you connect.
    >
    > Crash.

    AHHHH - I meant Xtra not Telecom...
     
    Crash, Aug 4, 2005
    #13
  14. Bernard

    Rob J Guest

    On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:29:04 +1200, Tony
    <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:26:38 +1200, Rob J <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:11:22 +1200, Bernard <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Thanks a lot, Rich.
    >>>
    >>>This is outrageous, monopolistic behavior. I use multiple ISPs as a
    >>>backup in case I cannot get through with one.

    >>
    >>Crap.
    >>
    >>Xtra are entitled to recover the costs of providing the service to
    >>you. They don't get one cent from you if you don't dial up an Xtra
    >>connection, as they charge for dialup access, not email use.
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    >Bull there are NO COSTS AT ALL.
    >
    >This is ALL CRAP.


    Of course there are costs, fool.
     
    Rob J, Aug 4, 2005
    #14
  15. In article <E0lIe.211$>,
    Crash <> wrote:

    >Roger are you seriously suggesting that offering pop3 access costs Telecom
    >nothing? Are you seriously suggesting Telecom has no right to charge for a
    >service provided?


    There is certainly no significant _incremental_ cost in allowing the
    POP3 servers to be accessed from non-Xtra IPs. Certainly less than the
    incremental cost of _adding_ an explicit check for such IPs and blocking
    them.

    In other words, charging $x a month to users for the privilege is pure
    gravy.
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Aug 5, 2005
    #15
  16. Bernard

    Richard Guest

    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro wrote:

    > In article <E0lIe.211$>,
    > Crash <> wrote:
    >
    >>Roger are you seriously suggesting that offering pop3 access costs Telecom
    >>nothing? Are you seriously suggesting Telecom has no right to charge for a
    >>service provided?

    >
    > There is certainly no significant _incremental_ cost in allowing the
    > POP3 servers to be accessed from non-Xtra IPs. Certainly less than the
    > incremental cost of _adding_ an explicit check for such IPs and blocking
    > them.


    No explicit check was added. The list of allowed IP addresses already
    existed: the IP addresses that were allowed to relay through the Xtra SMTP
    servers (not to mention access the Xtra news server). All that was
    required was a simple configuration change. There is no added incremental
    cost: that list had to be maintained for mail relay purposes anyway.

    As I noted upthread, Xtra weren't the first in .nz to do this. This whole
    argument just stinks of Telecom-bashing, much like the Linux-bashing or
    Microsoft-bashing rants we get in here.

    Richard
     
    Richard, Aug 5, 2005
    #16
  17. In article <ANGIe.501$>,
    Richard <> wrote:

    >Lawrence D¹Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In article <E0lIe.211$>,
    >> Crash <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Roger are you seriously suggesting that offering pop3 access costs Telecom
    >>>nothing? Are you seriously suggesting Telecom has no right to charge for a
    >>>service provided?

    >>
    >> There is certainly no significant _incremental_ cost in allowing the
    >> POP3 servers to be accessed from non-Xtra IPs. Certainly less than the
    >> incremental cost of _adding_ an explicit check for such IPs and blocking
    >> them.

    >
    >No explicit check was added. The list of allowed IP addresses already
    >existed: the IP addresses that were allowed to relay through the Xtra SMTP
    >servers...


    1) I thought the original problem had to do with picking up received
    mail, not sending outgoing mail.

    2) Having a fixed set of addresses for SMTP relaying doesn't seem to me
    like a smart thing to do. The better approach would be to tie SMTP relay
    access to those IP addresses that have recently done successful POP3 or
    IMAP authentication. Or simply demand SMTP authentication.
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Aug 6, 2005
    #17
  18. Bernard

    Rob J Guest

    On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:59:44 +1200, Lawrence D¹Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:

    >In article <ANGIe.501$>,
    > Richard <> wrote:
    >
    >>Lawrence D¹Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <E0lIe.211$>,
    >>> Crash <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Roger are you seriously suggesting that offering pop3 access costs Telecom
    >>>>nothing? Are you seriously suggesting Telecom has no right to charge for a
    >>>>service provided?
    >>>
    >>> There is certainly no significant _incremental_ cost in allowing the
    >>> POP3 servers to be accessed from non-Xtra IPs. Certainly less than the
    >>> incremental cost of _adding_ an explicit check for such IPs and blocking
    >>> them.

    >>
    >>No explicit check was added. The list of allowed IP addresses already
    >>existed: the IP addresses that were allowed to relay through the Xtra SMTP
    >>servers...

    >
    >1) I thought the original problem had to do with picking up received
    >mail, not sending outgoing mail.
    >
    >2) Having a fixed set of addresses for SMTP relaying doesn't seem to me
    >like a smart thing to do. The better approach would be to tie SMTP relay
    >access to those IP addresses that have recently done successful POP3 or
    >IMAP authentication. Or simply demand SMTP authentication.


    The solution you decry is used by 99% of ISPs in NZ.

    The alternative solution is what you generally find on third party
    services that are not provided by an access ISP.
     
    Rob J, Aug 6, 2005
    #18
  19. Bernard

    Richard Guest

    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro wrote:

    > In article <ANGIe.501$>,
    > Richard <> wrote:
    >
    >>Lawrence D¹Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> There is certainly no significant _incremental_ cost in allowing the
    >>> POP3 servers to be accessed from non-Xtra IPs. Certainly less than the
    >>> incremental cost of _adding_ an explicit check for such IPs and blocking
    >>> them.

    >>
    >>No explicit check was added. The list of allowed IP addresses already
    >>existed: the IP addresses that were allowed to relay through the Xtra SMTP
    >>servers...

    >
    > 1) I thought the original problem had to do with picking up received
    > mail, not sending outgoing mail.


    The thread started with receiving mail, yes. Your post mentioned the
    incremental cost of adding a check for non-Xtra IP addresses. I was just
    pointing out that the work was already being done (for SMTP relaying), so
    no extra incremental cost was incurred.

    > 2) Having a fixed set of addresses for SMTP relaying doesn't seem to me
    > like a smart thing to do. The better approach would be to tie SMTP relay
    > access to those IP addresses that have recently done successful POP3 or
    > IMAP authentication. Or simply demand SMTP authentication.


    As someone else pointed out, the vast majority of ISPs control relaying by
    way of IP addresses. It's pretty hard to forge that, and the ISP already
    has all the information necessary; it is, quite simply, the easiest and
    most effective way to do control mail relaying. Any ISP will tell you
    that adding more client-side configuration means an increase in helpdesk
    calls, which cost serious money. Tying relaying to a prior successful POP
    or IMAP authentication is a bodge that no sensible person would do. SMTP
    AUTH is definitely the way to go (preferably in conjunction with
    STARTTLS), but introduces complexity and requires Joe Bloggs configure
    something else in their client. That's where those helpdesk calls come
    in. In addition, most ISPs officially support only Microsoft mail
    clients, older versions (older than 12 months or so) of which don't do
    SMTP AUTH particularly well, if at all. Finally, many users these days
    have antivirus products that check incoming and outgoing e-mail by acting
    as a proxy. None of those anti-virus products, AFAIK, support SMTP AUTH
    (in fact, they frequently prevent the use of any SMTP extensions at all).
    Configuring SMTP AUTH in the client when you're using one of these
    antiviris products means you can't send mail, which in turn leads to still
    more helpdesk calls.

    Keeping helpdesk calls down is a big priority for any ISP that cares about
    keeping the shareholders happy; more helpdesk calls means lower profits
    and lower dividends, so they'd rather take the simple solution that just
    works without the client having to worry about it.

    Going back to the original problem, imagine yourself in this position:
    you're running an enterprise-level mail system licensed per mailbox.
    You've got users on pay-by-use dialup plans who check their mail from
    other ISPs, but never use your dialups. You're not getting any revenue
    *at all* from these guys, but you're paying a monthly per-mailbox
    licensing fee for them. They're driving up your costs without
    contributing to your revenue. What would *you* do? What would any
    sensible business do? It's not about being a monopoly, it's about
    maximising your return on investment, increasing your company value, and
    keeping your shareholders happy. It's about making sure your most valued
    customers aren't subsidising the deadwood in your customer base. Really,
    it comes down to being fair.

    Cheers

    Richard
     
    Richard, Aug 6, 2005
    #19
  20. In article <Tr%Ie.722$>,
    Richard <> wrote:

    >Tying relaying to a prior successful POP
    >or IMAP authentication is a bodge that no sensible person would do.


    Why is that? I have done it myself.

    >Going back to the original problem, imagine yourself in this position:
    >you're running an enterprise-level mail system licensed per mailbox.


    Why would I use such a system? I would use something open-source with
    much greater inherent scalability and flexibility. Basically, if Postfix
    can't do it, then it isn't worth doing. And one of the things it does
    quite well is dynamically-reconfigurable SMTP relay lists.
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Aug 6, 2005
    #20
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