POP removal.

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by a.draper, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. a.draper

    a.draper Guest

    As the finder of some unclaimed lost property, I came into possession of an
    IBM ThinkPad 40r with WinXP-Pro OS.
    Unfortunately it has a Power On Password, three attempts and you're locked
    out. I've tried the service manual solution i.e.: remove the cmos battery,
    as well as short the pins to clear the bios but the POP doesn't clear. If I
    interpret it right this means a supervisory password was also set. I don't
    care about the drive contents, I just want to wipe it and install my own OS.
    Can I do this, or will I have to buy a new drive? Does the POP reside in HD
    or the bios itself? I'm not much a computer geek, but I'm willing to try.
    It's a freebie anyway.

    --
    "The mind is its own place, and in itself
    can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven."----Milton.

    "Why, this is Hell; nor am I out of it!"----Marlowe.
    a.draper, Jul 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. a.draper

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:40:57 GMT, "a.draper" <>
    wrote:

    >As the finder of some unclaimed lost property, I came into possession of an
    >IBM ThinkPad 40r with WinXP-Pro OS.
    >Unfortunately it has a Power On Password, three attempts and you're locked
    >out. I've tried the service manual solution i.e.: remove the cmos battery,
    >as well as short the pins to clear the bios but the POP doesn't clear. If I
    >interpret it right this means a supervisory password was also set. I don't
    >care about the drive contents, I just want to wipe it and install my own OS.
    >Can I do this, or will I have to buy a new drive? Does the POP reside in HD
    >or the bios itself? I'm not much a computer geek, but I'm willing to try.
    >It's a freebie anyway.


    If the HD password has been set you will have to get a new
    HD.

    Try clearing the password with the drive removed. Its generally
    easy to get out with IBM thinkpads. New drives are cheap
    enough and removing a disk password is theoretically possible
    but I haven't managed it yet.

    There are data recoveery companies with a solution but the cost
    is a lot more than a new drive.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Jul 10, 2005
    #2
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  3. a.draper

    a.draper Guest

    Jim Watt wrote:
    > On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:40:57 GMT, "a.draper" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>As the finder of some unclaimed lost property, I came into possession of an
    >>IBM ThinkPad 40r with WinXP-Pro OS.
    >>Unfortunately it has a Power On Password, three attempts and you're locked
    >>out. I've tried the service manual solution i.e.: remove the cmos battery,
    >>as well as short the pins to clear the bios but the POP doesn't clear. If I
    >>interpret it right this means a supervisory password was also set. I don't
    >>care about the drive contents, I just want to wipe it and install my own OS.
    >>Can I do this, or will I have to buy a new drive? Does the POP reside in HD
    >>or the bios itself? I'm not much a computer geek, but I'm willing to try.
    >>It's a freebie anyway.

    >
    >
    > If the HD password has been set you will have to get a new
    > HD.
    >
    > Try clearing the password with the drive removed. Its generally
    > easy to get out with IBM thinkpads. New drives are cheap
    > enough and removing a disk password is theoretically possible
    > but I haven't managed it yet.
    >
    > There are data recoveery companies with a solution but the cost
    > is a lot more than a new drive.
    > --
    > Jim Watt
    > http://www.gibnet.com


    Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try. As I stated, I'm not
    interested in the data,I just hated the idea of throwing away a
    perfectly good 30g HD. I was concerned if I bought a new HD something in
    the BIOS might render it unusable. I'm not very technical, but working
    on something that is basically usable is very liberating.If I do get a
    new HD should it be the identical model as the old one?
    a.draper, Jul 11, 2005
    #3
  4. a.draper

    a.draper Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    a.draper wrote:
    >><snip>
    >>
    >>
    >> If the HD password has been set you will have to get a new
    >> HD.
    >>
    >> Try clearing the password with the drive removed. Its generally
    >> easy to get out with IBM thinkpads. New drives are cheap enough and
    >> removing a disk password is theoretically possible
    >> but I haven't managed it yet.
    >>
    >> There are data recoveery companies with a solution but the cost
    >> is a lot more than a new drive.
    >> --
    >> Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com

    >
    >
    > Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try. As I stated, I'm not
    > interested in the data,I just hated the idea of throwing away a
    > perfectly good 30g HD. I was concerned if I bought a new HD something in
    > the BIOS might render it unusable. I'm not very technical, but working
    > on something that is basically usable is very liberating.If I do get a
    > new HD should it be the identical model as the old one?


    You were certainly right about how easy is was to remove the HD- one
    screw. I popped it out and tried booting without HD, but still get black
    screen password logon. Does that mean I might as well junk the whole
    thing? C'est la Vie.
    a.draper, Jul 11, 2005
    #4
  5. a.draper

    Notan Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    "a.draper" wrote:
    >
    > a.draper wrote:
    > >><snip>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> If the HD password has been set you will have to get a new
    > >> HD.
    > >>
    > >> Try clearing the password with the drive removed. Its generally
    > >> easy to get out with IBM thinkpads. New drives are cheap enough and
    > >> removing a disk password is theoretically possible
    > >> but I haven't managed it yet.
    > >>
    > >> There are data recoveery companies with a solution but the cost
    > >> is a lot more than a new drive.
    > >> --
    > >> Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com

    > >
    > >
    > > Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try. As I stated, I'm not
    > > interested in the data,I just hated the idea of throwing away a
    > > perfectly good 30g HD. I was concerned if I bought a new HD something in
    > > the BIOS might render it unusable. I'm not very technical, but working
    > > on something that is basically usable is very liberating.If I do get a
    > > new HD should it be the identical model as the old one?

    >
    > You were certainly right about how easy is was to remove the HD- one
    > screw. I popped it out and tried booting without HD, but still get black
    > screen password logon. Does that mean I might as well junk the whole
    > thing? C'est la Vie.


    The hard drive password is "attached" to the hard drive, itself.

    A new drive should get you up and running.

    Good Luck!

    Notan
    Notan, Jul 11, 2005
    #5
  6. a.draper

    a.draper Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    Notan wrote:
    > "a.draper" wrote:
    >
    >>a.draper wrote:
    >>
    >>>><snip>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>If the HD password has been set you will have to get a new
    >>>>HD.
    >>>>
    >>>>Try clearing the password with the drive removed. Its generally
    >>>>easy to get out with IBM thinkpads. New drives are cheap enough and
    >>>>removing a disk password is theoretically possible
    >>>>but I haven't managed it yet.
    >>>>
    >>>>There are data recoveery companies with a solution but the cost
    >>>>is a lot more than a new drive.
    >>>>--
    >>>>Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try. As I stated, I'm not
    >>>interested in the data,I just hated the idea of throwing away a
    >>>perfectly good 30g HD. I was concerned if I bought a new HD something in
    >>>the BIOS might render it unusable. I'm not very technical, but working
    >>>on something that is basically usable is very liberating.If I do get a
    >>>new HD should it be the identical model as the old one?

    >>
    >>You were certainly right about how easy is was to remove the HD- one
    >>screw. I popped it out and tried booting without HD, but still get black
    >>screen password logon. Does that mean I might as well junk the whole
    >>thing? C'est la Vie.

    >
    >
    > The hard drive password is "attached" to the hard drive, itself.
    >
    > A new drive should get you up and running.
    >
    > Good Luck!
    >
    > Notan

    Ok, now I'm really revealing my ignorance, but if it boots to the black
    password screen without any hard drive at all, won't it do so with a new
    one as well? Thanks to every one who replied. Didn't mean to be a PITA.
    a.draper, Jul 11, 2005
    #6
  7. a.draper

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:01:39 GMT, "a.draper" <>
    wrote:

    >Jim Watt wrote:
    >> On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:40:57 GMT, "a.draper" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>As the finder of some unclaimed lost property, I came into possession of an
    >>>IBM ThinkPad 40r with WinXP-Pro OS.
    >>>Unfortunately it has a Power On Password, three attempts and you're locked
    >>>out. I've tried the service manual solution i.e.: remove the cmos battery,
    >>>as well as short the pins to clear the bios but the POP doesn't clear. If I
    >>>interpret it right this means a supervisory password was also set. I don't
    >>>care about the drive contents, I just want to wipe it and install my own OS.
    >>>Can I do this, or will I have to buy a new drive? Does the POP reside in HD
    >>>or the bios itself? I'm not much a computer geek, but I'm willing to try.
    >>>It's a freebie anyway.

    >>
    >>
    >> If the HD password has been set you will have to get a new
    >> HD.
    >>
    >> Try clearing the password with the drive removed. Its generally
    >> easy to get out with IBM thinkpads. New drives are cheap
    >> enough and removing a disk password is theoretically possible
    >> but I haven't managed it yet.
    >>
    >> There are data recoveery companies with a solution but the cost
    >> is a lot more than a new drive.
    >> --
    >> Jim Watt
    >> http://www.gibnet.com

    >
    >Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try. As I stated, I'm not
    >interested in the data,I just hated the idea of throwing away a
    >perfectly good 30g HD. I was concerned if I bought a new HD something in
    >the BIOS might render it unusable. I'm not very technical, but working
    >on something that is basically usable is very liberating.If I do get a
    >new HD should it be the identical model as the old one?


    No, as long as its the right physical size to fit and same
    type of drive for the connection. There is probably a
    small plastic connector between the drive and the thinkpad
    which comes away with the drive and the drive is in a thin
    metal case usually, with a little care and dexterity they
    can be transferred to the new drive.

    The protection provided by the system setting a password
    on the drive is excellent, I have been there and done that
    and have a working thinkpad with a new drive in it.

    I also have the old drive with a password set, and one of these
    days will have a go at writing the program to recover
    the original drive, its possible but AFAIK nobody has done
    it as yet.

    Fortunately the price of drives is at a low. Thinkpads are
    great machines because they are designed so you can
    change parts easily.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Jul 11, 2005
    #7
  8. a.draper

    Wolf Halton Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    a.draper wrote:
    > Notan wrote:
    >
    >> "a.draper" wrote:
    >>
    >>> a.draper wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> <snip>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If the HD password has been set you will have to get a new
    >>>>> HD.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Try clearing the password with the drive removed. Its generally
    >>>>> easy to get out with IBM thinkpads. New drives are cheap enough and
    >>>>> removing a disk password is theoretically possible
    >>>>> but I haven't managed it yet.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There are data recoveery companies with a solution but the cost
    >>>>> is a lot more than a new drive.
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try. As I stated, I'm not
    >>>> interested in the data,I just hated the idea of throwing away a
    >>>> perfectly good 30g HD. I was concerned if I bought a new HD
    >>>> something in
    >>>> the BIOS might render it unusable. I'm not very technical, but working
    >>>> on something that is basically usable is very liberating.If I do get a
    >>>> new HD should it be the identical model as the old one?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> You were certainly right about how easy is was to remove the HD- one
    >>> screw. I popped it out and tried booting without HD, but still get black
    >>> screen password logon. Does that mean I might as well junk the whole
    >>> thing? C'est la Vie.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> The hard drive password is "attached" to the hard drive, itself.
    >>
    >> A new drive should get you up and running.
    >>
    >> Good Luck!
    >>
    >> Notan

    >
    > Ok, now I'm really revealing my ignorance, but if it boots to the black
    > password screen without any hard drive at all, won't it do so with a new
    > one as well? Thanks to every one who replied. Didn't mean to be a PITA.


    That sounds like good trouble-stooting. Seems like to me the password
    on the bios has not been cleared yet. Have you considered taking it to
    a certified repair center to have the password cleared? That would be
    cheating, but it is probably not a lot more than a new hard-drive that
    might not work. I have never heard of a hard-drive-attached rom
    passwording feature. This is very interesting.

    Wolf
    Wolf Halton, Jul 12, 2005
    #8
  9. a.draper

    Notan Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    Wolf Halton wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > That sounds like good trouble-stooting. Seems like to me the password
    > on the bios has not been cleared yet. Have you considered taking it to
    > a certified repair center to have the password cleared? That would be
    > cheating, but it is probably not a lot more than a new hard-drive that
    > might not work. I have never heard of a hard-drive-attached rom
    > passwording feature. This is very interesting.


    Here's a pretty good explanation, from Barry Watzman, in comp.sys.laptops.

    The OP was questioning how to reset a hard drive password...

    "This mechanism is entirely in the hard drive itself, and the design
    philosophy that the hardware should become useless before the data
    should become available without the proper password.

    Basically, at power-on, you have to supply the password before the drive
    will even respond to any IDE data transfer commands -- including the
    commands that let the BIOS recognize that the hard drive exists. Until
    the proper password is entered, the command to enter the password is the
    only command that the drive will respond to. Therefore, until it's
    entered, you can't use FDISK or anything else, because the drive
    effectively doesn't yet exist.

    It's not physically impossible to reset the password, but the knowledge
    of how to do it is generally unknown, and the equipment to do it is
    generally not available. There are a few places (very few) that offer
    the service, but the cost is higher than the cost of a new hard drive,
    so it only makes sense if it's the data, rather than the drive, that's
    important. [and, hopefully, the places that can reset it ask lots and
    lots of questions first]"

    Notan
    Notan, Jul 12, 2005
    #9
  10. a.draper

    a.draper Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    Notan wrote:
    > Wolf Halton wrote:
    >
    >><snip>
    >>
    >>That sounds like good trouble-stooting. Seems like to me the password
    >>on the bios has not been cleared yet. Have you considered taking it to
    >>a certified repair center to have the password cleared? That would be
    >>cheating, but it is probably not a lot more than a new hard-drive that
    >>might not work. I have never heard of a hard-drive-attached rom
    >>passwording feature. This is very interesting.

    >
    >
    > Here's a pretty good explanation, from Barry Watzman, in comp.sys.laptops.
    >
    > The OP was questioning how to reset a hard drive password...
    >
    > "This mechanism is entirely in the hard drive itself, and the design
    > philosophy that the hardware should become useless before the data
    > should become available without the proper password.
    >
    > Basically, at power-on, you have to supply the password before the drive
    > will even respond to any IDE data transfer commands -- including the
    > commands that let the BIOS recognize that the hard drive exists. Until
    > the proper password is entered, the command to enter the password is the
    > only command that the drive will respond to. Therefore, until it's
    > entered, you can't use FDISK or anything else, because the drive
    > effectively doesn't yet exist.
    >
    > It's not physically impossible to reset the password, but the knowledge
    > of how to do it is generally unknown, and the equipment to do it is
    > generally not available. There are a few places (very few) that offer
    > the service, but the cost is higher than the cost of a new hard drive,
    > so it only makes sense if it's the data, rather than the drive, that's
    > important. [and, hopefully, the places that can reset it ask lots and
    > lots of questions first]"
    >
    > Notan


    At last we're getting somewhere! Let me see if I can sum up the
    situation correctly. If a HD password has been set the Bios cannot
    process any commands in the presence of a set HD, OR the absence of any
    HD at all. BUT the presence of an HD without a set password will allow
    the Bios to process commands normally without seeking a password. Is
    this a fair statement of the facts?
    a.draper, Jul 12, 2005
    #10
  11. a.draper

    Jim Watt Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:32:02 GMT, "a.draper" <>
    wrote:

    >Notan wrote:
    >> Wolf Halton wrote:
    >>
    >>><snip>
    >>>
    >>>That sounds like good trouble-stooting. Seems like to me the password
    >>>on the bios has not been cleared yet. Have you considered taking it to
    >>>a certified repair center to have the password cleared? That would be
    >>>cheating, but it is probably not a lot more than a new hard-drive that
    >>>might not work. I have never heard of a hard-drive-attached rom
    >>>passwording feature. This is very interesting.

    >>
    >>
    >> Here's a pretty good explanation, from Barry Watzman, in comp.sys.laptops.
    >>
    >> The OP was questioning how to reset a hard drive password...
    >>
    >> "This mechanism is entirely in the hard drive itself, and the design
    >> philosophy that the hardware should become useless before the data
    >> should become available without the proper password.
    >>
    >> Basically, at power-on, you have to supply the password before the drive
    >> will even respond to any IDE data transfer commands -- including the
    >> commands that let the BIOS recognize that the hard drive exists. Until
    >> the proper password is entered, the command to enter the password is the
    >> only command that the drive will respond to. Therefore, until it's
    >> entered, you can't use FDISK or anything else, because the drive
    >> effectively doesn't yet exist.
    >>
    >> It's not physically impossible to reset the password, but the knowledge
    >> of how to do it is generally unknown, and the equipment to do it is
    >> generally not available. There are a few places (very few) that offer
    >> the service, but the cost is higher than the cost of a new hard drive,
    >> so it only makes sense if it's the data, rather than the drive, that's
    >> important. [and, hopefully, the places that can reset it ask lots and
    >> lots of questions first]"
    >>
    >> Notan

    >
    >At last we're getting somewhere! Let me see if I can sum up the
    >situation correctly. If a HD password has been set the Bios cannot
    >process any commands in the presence of a set HD, OR the absence of any
    >HD at all. BUT the presence of an HD without a set password will allow
    >the Bios to process commands normally without seeking a password. Is
    >this a fair statement of the facts?


    Basically yet, the first thing the BIOS does is check the HD for a
    password. The password is recorded in the non-volatile memory
    of the drive electronics.

    I have a working laptop which did have a drive protected by a
    password.

    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Jul 12, 2005
    #11
  12. a.draper

    nemo_outis Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    Jim Watt <_way> wrote in
    news::

    > On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:32:02 GMT, "a.draper" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Notan wrote:
    >>> Wolf Halton wrote:
    >>>
    >>>><snip>
    >>>>
    >>>>That sounds like good trouble-stooting. Seems like to me the
    >>>>password on the bios has not been cleared yet. Have you considered
    >>>>taking it to a certified repair center to have the password cleared?
    >>>> That would be cheating, but it is probably not a lot more than a
    >>>>new hard-drive that might not work. I have never heard of a
    >>>>hard-drive-attached rom passwording feature. This is very
    >>>>interesting.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Here's a pretty good explanation, from Barry Watzman, in
    >>> comp.sys.laptops.
    >>>
    >>> The OP was questioning how to reset a hard drive password...
    >>>
    >>> "This mechanism is entirely in the hard drive itself, and the design
    >>> philosophy that the hardware should become useless before the data
    >>> should become available without the proper password.
    >>>
    >>> Basically, at power-on, you have to supply the password before the
    >>> drive will even respond to any IDE data transfer commands --
    >>> including the commands that let the BIOS recognize that the hard
    >>> drive exists. Until the proper password is entered, the command to
    >>> enter the password is the only command that the drive will respond
    >>> to. Therefore, until it's entered, you can't use FDISK or anything
    >>> else, because the drive effectively doesn't yet exist.
    >>>
    >>> It's not physically impossible to reset the password, but the
    >>> knowledge of how to do it is generally unknown, and the equipment to
    >>> do it is generally not available. There are a few places (very few)
    >>> that offer the service, but the cost is higher than the cost of a
    >>> new hard drive, so it only makes sense if it's the data, rather than
    >>> the drive, that's important. [and, hopefully, the places that can
    >>> reset it ask lots and lots of questions first]"
    >>>
    >>> Notan

    >>
    >>At last we're getting somewhere! Let me see if I can sum up the
    >>situation correctly. If a HD password has been set the Bios cannot
    >>process any commands in the presence of a set HD, OR the absence of
    >>any HD at all. BUT the presence of an HD without a set password will
    >>allow the Bios to process commands normally without seeking a
    >>password. Is this a fair statement of the facts?

    >
    > Basically yet, the first thing the BIOS does is check the HD for a
    > password. The password is recorded in the non-volatile memory
    > of the drive electronics.
    >
    > I have a working laptop which did have a drive protected by a
    > password.
    >
    > --
    > Jim Watt
    > http://www.gibnet.com
    >




    Actually the IDE standard supports TWO passwords directly on the HD itself:
    the first a user password, the second a master (administrator) password.
    There are methods of resetting, etc. the user password while retaining the
    data on the HD; the only method of removing the administrator password
    (unless you already know it!) entails losing all data on the drive.

    The standard tool (if your BIOS doesn't support this directly - and many
    don't!) is ATAPWD by Alex Mina.

    Regards,
    nemo_outis, Jul 13, 2005
    #12
  13. a.draper

    Jim Watt Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    On 13 Jul 2005 00:43:33 GMT, "nemo_outis" <> wrote:

    >> Basically yet, the first thing the BIOS does is check the HD for a
    >> password. The password is recorded in the non-volatile memory
    >> of the drive electronics.
    >>
    >> I have a working laptop which did have a drive protected by a
    >> password.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Jim Watt
    >> http://www.gibnet.com
    >>

    >
    >Actually the IDE standard supports TWO passwords directly on the HD itself:
    >the first a user password, the second a master (administrator) password.
    >There are methods of resetting, etc. the user password while retaining the
    >data on the HD; the only method of removing the administrator password
    >(unless you already know it!) entails losing all data on the drive.
    >
    >The standard tool (if your BIOS doesn't support this directly - and many
    >don't!) is ATAPWD by Alex Mina.


    Now that looks interesting;

    I spent a lot of time reading the ATA3 instruction set and discovering
    what the default master password was with a view to writing something
    like that, but haven't done anything in assembler since the days of
    CP/M and its not trivial.

    I see that program allows for a security erase which restores the
    disk to its original bare state, which is what the OP would be happy
    with..

    Given that the key can be 32 bytes in length, its a very strong
    method of protecting a disk's contents, although I guess a
    really determined highly technical party could get at the eeprom
    data.

    Its added to my toolbox, now to get that pesky locked drive
    out ...
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Jul 13, 2005
    #13
  14. a.draper

    a.draper Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    Jim Watt wrote:
    > On 13 Jul 2005 00:43:33 GMT, "nemo_outis" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Basically yet, the first thing the BIOS does is check the HD for a
    >>>password. The password is recorded in the non-volatile memory
    >>>of the drive electronics.
    >>>
    >>>I have a working laptop which did have a drive protected by a
    >>>password.
    >>>
    >>>--
    >>>Jim Watt
    >>>http://www.gibnet.com
    >>>

    >>
    >>Actually the IDE standard supports TWO passwords directly on the HD itself:
    >>the first a user password, the second a master (administrator) password.
    >>There are methods of resetting, etc. the user password while retaining the
    >>data on the HD; the only method of removing the administrator password
    >>(unless you already know it!) entails losing all data on the drive.
    >>
    >>The standard tool (if your BIOS doesn't support this directly - and many
    >>don't!) is ATAPWD by Alex Mina.

    >
    >
    > Now that looks interesting;
    >
    > I spent a lot of time reading the ATA3 instruction set and discovering
    > what the default master password was with a view to writing something
    > like that, but haven't done anything in assembler since the days of
    > CP/M and its not trivial.
    >
    > I see that program allows for a security erase which restores the
    > disk to its original bare state, which is what the OP would be happy
    > with..
    >
    > Given that the key can be 32 bytes in length, its a very strong
    > method of protecting a disk's contents, although I guess a
    > really determined highly technical party could get at the eeprom
    > data.
    >
    > Its added to my toolbox, now to get that pesky locked drive
    > out ...
    > --
    > Jim Watt
    > http://www.gibnet.com


    I'd like to thank everyone who kept this thread going, your advice has
    been very helpful and much appreciated. I am resigned to getting a new
    HD. At under $100.00 that's not too much. As I mentioned in my OP, I do
    believe a second, Supervisory password was set as well. In light of
    this, is it the consensus that simply installing a new HD make this
    laptop usable? Thank you all again for your patience.
    a.draper, Jul 14, 2005
    #14
  15. a.draper

    Jim Watt Guest

    Re: POP removal.no joy

    On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 04:21:42 GMT, "a.draper" <>
    wrote:

    >Jim Watt wrote:
    >> On 13 Jul 2005 00:43:33 GMT, "nemo_outis" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>Basically yet, the first thing the BIOS does is check the HD for a
    >>>>password. The password is recorded in the non-volatile memory
    >>>>of the drive electronics.
    >>>>
    >>>>I have a working laptop which did have a drive protected by a
    >>>>password.
    >>>>
    >>>>--
    >>>>Jim Watt
    >>>>http://www.gibnet.com
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>Actually the IDE standard supports TWO passwords directly on the HD itself:
    >>>the first a user password, the second a master (administrator) password.
    >>>There are methods of resetting, etc. the user password while retaining the
    >>>data on the HD; the only method of removing the administrator password
    >>>(unless you already know it!) entails losing all data on the drive.
    >>>
    >>>The standard tool (if your BIOS doesn't support this directly - and many
    >>>don't!) is ATAPWD by Alex Mina.

    >>
    >>
    >> Now that looks interesting;
    >>
    >> I spent a lot of time reading the ATA3 instruction set and discovering
    >> what the default master password was with a view to writing something
    >> like that, but haven't done anything in assembler since the days of
    >> CP/M and its not trivial.
    >>
    >> I see that program allows for a security erase which restores the
    >> disk to its original bare state, which is what the OP would be happy
    >> with..
    >>
    >> Given that the key can be 32 bytes in length, its a very strong
    >> method of protecting a disk's contents, although I guess a
    >> really determined highly technical party could get at the eeprom
    >> data.
    >>
    >> Its added to my toolbox, now to get that pesky locked drive
    >> out ...
    >> --
    >> Jim Watt
    >> http://www.gibnet.com

    >
    >I'd like to thank everyone who kept this thread going, your advice has
    >been very helpful and much appreciated. I am resigned to getting a new
    >HD. At under $100.00 that's not too much. As I mentioned in my OP, I do
    >believe a second, Supervisory password was set as well. In light of
    >this, is it the consensus that simply installing a new HD make this
    >laptop usable? Thank you all again for your patience.


    I think you need to distinguish between the different levels of
    password, there is a standard CMOS password, and a second
    level password implemented by the facility offered by the ATA3
    and greater disk firmware. Within that there are two levels
    of security and I think that IBM only use the first level.

    However, I can confirm I had a machie with this set and its
    now working fine having substituted the hd. I recall doing
    some fiddling around starting the machine without a HD to
    clear whatevever password was set. The actual implementation
    may vary between models of course.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Jul 14, 2005
    #15
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