Poor quality photos: why?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mark, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    a good resolution???
    No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.

    Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    transmit via Morse code..... :(
     
    Mark, Jan 17, 2005
    #1
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  2. Mark

    RSD99 Guest

    Are you somehow forgetting that the equipment was built something like ten
    (10) years ago ... and the Cassini mission was launched roughly eight (8)
    years ago?






    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    > 1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    > They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    > Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    > a good resolution???
    > No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    > useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    > Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    > were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >
    > Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    > transmit via Morse code..... :(
     
    RSD99, Jan 17, 2005
    #2
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  3. "RSD99" <> wrote in message
    news:OoWGd.11219$c%6.4968@trnddc03...
    > Are you somehow forgetting that the equipment was built something like ten
    > (10) years ago ... and the Cassini mission was launched roughly eight (8)
    > years ago?


    Add to that the needed reliability. One does not send the package into
    space unless one is sure that it will work (more redundancy - less
    features). There's always a budget limit and a payload limit.
     
    Charles Schuler, Jan 17, 2005
    #3
  4. Mark

    Tom Randy Guest

    On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:48:30 +0000, RSD99 wrote:

    > Are you somehow forgetting that the equipment was built something like ten
    > (10) years ago ... and the Cassini mission was launched roughly eight (8)
    > years ago?



    The photos are an extra. The probe is an ATMOSPHERIC PROBE. That was it's
    main job, not images. The photos are just extra icing on the cake.
    Some people are never happy....
     
    Tom Randy, Jan 18, 2005
    #4
  5. On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:55:19 -0500, Charles Schuler wrote:
    >
    > "RSD99" <> wrote in message
    > news:OoWGd.11219$c%6.4968@trnddc03...
    >> Are you somehow forgetting that the equipment was built something like ten
    >> (10) years ago ... and the Cassini mission was launched roughly eight (8)
    >> years ago?

    >
    > Add to that the needed reliability. One does not send the package into
    > space unless one is sure that it will work (more redundancy - less
    > features). There's always a budget limit and a payload limit.


    I'm all for sending the OP up there to swap out the camera.
     
    Allodoxaphobia, Jan 18, 2005
    #5
  6. Mark

    Harvey Guest

    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    > 1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    > They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    > Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    > a good resolution???
    > No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    > useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    > Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    > were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >
    > Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    > transmit via Morse code..... :(


    Cassini was launched before JPEG2000 was invented. Do you have that little
    regard for the NASA engineers that you think they have no knowledge of
    photographic techniques? There are power, bandwidth, distance, reliability,
    and enviromental limits that govern image transmission.
     
    Harvey, Jan 18, 2005
    #6
  7. Mark

    Martin Guest

    Harvey wrote:
    > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth

    of
    > > 1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    > > They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    > > Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality

    and
    > > a good resolution???
    > > No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small

    duplicated
    > > useless images

    (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    > > Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    > > were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    > >
    > > Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they

    could
    > > transmit via Morse code..... :(

    >
    > Cassini was launched before JPEG2000 was invented. Do you have that

    little
    > regard for the NASA engineers that you think they have no knowledge

    of
    > photographic techniques? There are power, bandwidth, distance,

    reliability,
    > and enviromental limits that govern image transmission.


    NASA engineer? I'm thinking the engineers were/are not working for
    NASA. Am I wrong? I'm thinking the engineers are European. Right?
     
    Martin, Jan 18, 2005
    #7
  8. Mark

    Hugh Jorgan Guest

    90min = 540 sec? What universe are you in?

    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    > 1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    > They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    > Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    > a good resolution???
    > No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    > useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    > Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    > were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >
    > Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    > transmit via Morse code..... :(
     
    Hugh Jorgan, Jan 18, 2005
    #8
  9. Mark

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Martin wrote:
    > Harvey wrote:
    >
    >>"Mark" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>>Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth

    >
    > of
    >
    >>>1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    >>>They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    >>>Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality

    >
    > and
    >
    >>>a good resolution???
    >>>No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small

    >
    > duplicated
    >
    >>>useless images

    >
    > (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    >
    >>>Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    >>>were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >>>
    >>>Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they

    >
    > could
    >
    >>>transmit via Morse code..... :(

    >>
    >>Cassini was launched before JPEG2000 was invented. Do you have that

    >
    > little
    >
    >>regard for the NASA engineers that you think they have no knowledge

    >
    > of
    >
    >>photographic techniques? There are power, bandwidth, distance,

    >
    > reliability,
    >
    >>and enviromental limits that govern image transmission.

    >
    >
    > NASA engineer? I'm thinking the engineers were/are not working for
    > NASA. Am I wrong? I'm thinking the engineers are European. Right?
    >

    Yes, the ESA did build Huygens, but I suspect a lot of collaboration
    with NASA took place. There are some fine engineers in Europe.


    --
    Ron Hunter
     
    Ron Hunter, Jan 18, 2005
    #9
  10. Mark

    Phil Guest

    In fact Mark is wrong 90min=5400sec. Then they could get a hundred 54Kb
    color images. It's quite ridiculous we have only those b/w ones.
    In regard of JPEG2000 format, NASA is able to reprogram software of
    probes. They already did it teaching the Voyager probe to use the JPG
    format, even if when it was launched the jpeg didn't exist.


    Hugh Jorgan wrote:
    > 90min = 540 sec? What universe are you in?
    >
    > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth

    of
    > > 1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    > > They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    > > Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality

    and
    > > a good resolution???
    > > No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small

    duplicated
    > > useless images

    (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    > > Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    > > were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    > >
    > > Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they

    could
    > > transmit via Morse code..... :(
     
    Phil, Jan 18, 2005
    #10
  11. Mark

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On 18 Jan 2005 00:38:03 -0800, in rec.photo.digital "Phil"
    <> wrote:

    >In fact Mark is wrong 90min=5400sec. Then they could get a hundred 54Kb
    >color images. It's quite ridiculous we have only those b/w ones.
    >In regard of JPEG2000 format, NASA is able to reprogram software of
    >probes. They already did it teaching the Voyager probe to use the JPG
    >format, even if when it was launched the jpeg didn't exist.


    Just as you are wrong to expect that even a major portion of the total
    bandwidth is allocated to the transmission of the images. See the middle of
    http://home.cwru.edu/~sjr16/advanced/21st_outer.html
    for a listing of it's main instruments.
    ----------
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
     
    Ed Ruf, Jan 18, 2005
    #11
  12. Mark

    RSD99 Guest

    Sounds good ... Tooooooo Meeeeee!



    "Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:55:19 -0500, Charles Schuler wrote:
    > >
    > > "RSD99" <> wrote in message
    > > news:OoWGd.11219$c%6.4968@trnddc03...
    > >> Are you somehow forgetting that the equipment was built something like

    ten
    > >> (10) years ago ... and the Cassini mission was launched roughly eight

    (8)
    > >> years ago?

    > >
    > > Add to that the needed reliability. One does not send the package into
    > > space unless one is sure that it will work (more redundancy - less
    > > features). There's always a budget limit and a payload limit.

    >
    > I'm all for sending the OP up there to swap out the camera.
     
    RSD99, Jan 18, 2005
    #12
  13. Mark

    Des Perado Guest

    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of


    Consider this: I consider that you are nothing but a troll
     
    Des Perado, Jan 18, 2005
    #13
  14. Mark

    Owamanga Guest

    On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:43:54 GMT, "Harvey"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Mark" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    >> 1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    >> They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    >> Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    >> a good resolution???
    >> No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    >> useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    >> Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    >> were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >>
    >> Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    >> transmit via Morse code..... :(

    >
    >Cassini was launched before JPEG2000 was invented. Do you have that little
    >regard for the NASA engineers that you think they have no knowledge of
    >photographic techniques? There are power, bandwidth, distance, reliability,
    >and enviromental limits that govern image transmission.


    Not sure what NASA has to do with it, but the concept of firmware
    updates has been around for 30 years.

    So, this isn't a good excuse.

    Of course, a firmware update that can convert a BW camera into a Color
    one would take some engineering, but they should have *known*
    something better was coming - it always does.

    --
    Owamanga!
     
    Owamanga, Jan 18, 2005
    #14
  15. Mark

    Spack Guest

    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    > 1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    > They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    > Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    > a good resolution???
    > No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    > useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    > Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    > were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >
    > Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    > transmit via Morse code..... :(


    And what about the colour image (possibly images, but I've only seen
    reference to 1 so far) taken on the surface showing orange skies?

    Dan
     
    Spack, Jan 18, 2005
    #15
  16. Owamanga wrote:
    []
    > Not sure what NASA has to do with it, but the concept of firmware
    > updates has been around for 30 years.
    >
    > So, this isn't a good excuse.
    >
    > Of course, a firmware update that can convert a BW camera into a Color
    > one would take some engineering, but they should have *known*
    > something better was coming - it always does.


    ... and indeed, Cassini /was/ reprogrammed during its voyage, to correct an
    error due to a doppler shift (in data frequency, not RF carrier frequency)
    which had not been allowed for.....

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 18, 2005
    #16
  17. Mark

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Spack wrote:
    > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    >>1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    >>They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    >>Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    >>a good resolution???
    >>No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    >>useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    >>Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    >>were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >>
    >>Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    >>transmit via Morse code..... :(

    >
    >
    > And what about the colour image (possibly images, but I've only seen
    > reference to 1 so far) taken on the surface showing orange skies?
    >
    > Dan
    >
    >

    Light reflected from Saturn is the primary source of illumination for
    Titan, and Saturn appears orange...


    --
    Ron Hunter
     
    Ron Hunter, Jan 18, 2005
    #17
  18. Ron Hunter wrote:

    > Spack wrote:
    >
    >> "Mark" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>> Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    >>> 1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    >>> They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    >>> Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    >>> a good resolution???
    >>> No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    >>> useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    >>> Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    >>> were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >>>
    >>> Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    >>> transmit via Morse code..... :(

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> And what about the colour image (possibly images, but I've only seen
    >> reference to 1 so far) taken on the surface showing orange skies?
    >>
    >> Dan
    >>

    > Light reflected from Saturn is the primary source of illumination for
    > Titan, and Saturn appears orange...


    No, this is not correct. The primary light source is the Sun.
    Titan is tidally locked so the same side faces Saturn all the
    time, just like our moon. Saturn shine is a tiny fraction
    of the incident light on Titan. See the Iapetus Saturn shine
    images, for comparison; Iapetus is a little further out, but
    it gives you an idea. The Iapetus Saturn shine images are on
    the JPL web site.

    The imager was black and white only. The color image is the average
    color derived from spectra. The orange color is thought to be
    from all the complex hydrocarbons in the atmosphere.

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Jan 19, 2005
    #18
  19. Mark

    Spack Guest

    "Ron Hunter" <> wrote in message
    news:mJfHd.8519$...
    > Spack wrote:
    >> "Mark" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>Consider this: 1 hour and half on the surface of Titan, a bandwidth of
    >>>1 Kbyte/sec (8kbit/sec), so 90 mins=540 secs= 540 Kbytes
    >>>They could have taken ten images with a size of 54kbytes.
    >>>Do you know that a COLOR JPEG2000 image has a really good quality and
    >>>a good resolution???
    >>>No, they seem not to know it, they took 300 ugly b/w small duplicated
    >>>useless images (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm).
    >>>Here's how to drop people money. It seems that 1960's transmissions
    >>>were alot better than those of a 1997 probe.
    >>>
    >>>Next time they could use images made with color LEDs, and they could
    >>>transmit via Morse code..... :(

    >>
    >>
    >> And what about the colour image (possibly images, but I've only seen
    >> reference to 1 so far) taken on the surface showing orange skies?
    >>
    >> Dan

    > Light reflected from Saturn is the primary source of illumination for
    > Titan, and Saturn appears orange...


    I was responding to the OP asking why they didn't take colour pictures.

    Dan
     
    Spack, Jan 19, 2005
    #19
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