Poor Orcon and other ISPs

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ..Waylon Smithers.., Sep 15, 2004.

  1. As reported in todays' media

    "The introduction of a competitive high-speed internet access market has hit
    another roadblock.

    Telecom cannot deliver its promised wholesale service on time.

    Telecom has been working with internet providers on its "unbundled bitstream
    service" (UBS) for four months and was to have introduced its service
    towards the end of this month.

    But technical problems mean it won't be able to offer the full service by
    then and won't have a solution for five weeks or longer, says its manager of
    strategy and planning for wholesale, Martin Butler.

    "It's at least five weeks and possibly up to three months. With Christmas in
    the middle, we could run into difficulty if we haven't got it fixed before
    the holiday period."



    A real pity for ISP's with all of that advertising $$ already spent :-(

    A greater pity for the paying consumer.
     
    ..Waylon Smithers.., Sep 15, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. ..Waylon Smithers..

    JedMeister Guest

    I predict UBS won't be ready until midway through 2005.

    Also, once this is introduced there will be huge problems with quality of
    service, billing, service provisioning, faults, and related business
    processes.

    Just my guess - it is in telecoms shareholder interest to delay , and to
    make Xtra the best provider.



    "..Waylon Smithers.." <.> wrote
    in message news:ciabir$apm$...
    > As reported in todays' media
    >
    > "The introduction of a competitive high-speed internet access market has

    hit
    > another roadblock.
    >
    > Telecom cannot deliver its promised wholesale service on time.
    >
    > Telecom has been working with internet providers on its "unbundled

    bitstream
    > service" (UBS) for four months and was to have introduced its service
    > towards the end of this month.
    >
    > But technical problems mean it won't be able to offer the full service by
    > then and won't have a solution for five weeks or longer, says its manager

    of
    > strategy and planning for wholesale, Martin Butler.
    >
    > "It's at least five weeks and possibly up to three months. With Christmas

    in
    > the middle, we could run into difficulty if we haven't got it fixed before
    > the holiday period."
    >
    >
    >
    > A real pity for ISP's with all of that advertising $$ already spent :-(
    >
    > A greater pity for the paying consumer.
    >
    >
     
    JedMeister, Sep 15, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. ...Waylon Smithers.. wrote:
    > A real pity for ISP's with all of that advertising $$ already spent :-(


    well done Telecom/Xtra.
    Screwed the customer and "retailer" in one foul swoop.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 15, 2004
    #3
  4. ..Waylon Smithers..

    Harry. Guest

    ...Waylon Smithers.. wrote:

    > As reported in todays' media
    >
    > "The introduction of a competitive high-speed internet access market has
    > hit another roadblock.
    >
    > Telecom cannot deliver its promised wholesale service on time.
    >


    So will the government fine them $1m/day? They should. But they wont.
     
    Harry., Sep 15, 2004
    #4
  5. ..Waylon Smithers..

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > ...Waylon Smithers.. wrote:
    >
    >> A real pity for ISP's with all of that advertising $$ already spent :-(

    >
    >
    > well done Telecom/Xtra.
    > Screwed the customer and "retailer" in one foul swoop.
    >

    And with the Commerce Commission seemingly doing their best to help
    Telecom, too - they really look like they dropped the ball on this whole
    mess.

    As far as the problem announced today is concerned, surely the end user
    isn't going to see any difference? Don't ISPs "just" have to negotiate a
    contract with Telecom for an interim service PDQ? They've got, what, 15
    working days to do that in, assuming the original date for the new
    services was 3 October.

    The big ISPs will be OK, but small ones might be struggling with costs I
    suspect.

    In the present climate, Telecom just can't lose. And in the interim, I
    suspect they'll be able to apply data caps and not permit static IPs,
    which removes a couple of the features Orcon were offering.

    What a bloody shambles.


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    -=rjh=-, Sep 15, 2004
    #5
  6. "JedMeister" <> wrote in message
    news:Lt22d.2853$...
    > Just my guess - it is in telecoms shareholder interest to delay , and to
    > make Xtra the best provider.


    Since Telecom has never even tried to make xtra the best provider, one could
    reasonably assume that that is not high on their list of priorities :p.

    Andrew
     
    Andrew Bryson, Sep 15, 2004
    #6
  7. ..Waylon Smithers..

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Andrew Bryson wrote:
    > "JedMeister" <> wrote in message
    > news:Lt22d.2853$...
    >> Just my guess - it is in telecoms shareholder interest to delay ,
    >> and to make Xtra the best provider.

    >
    > Since Telecom has never even tried to make xtra the best provider,
    > one could reasonably assume that that is not high on their list of
    > priorities :p.


    Hence they delay and nobbling of other providors Telecom has always indulged
    in.

    They are the epitome of capitalist scum. Novels have been written about
    companies with far better ethics than Telecom. They are bleeding the NZ
    consumer white and won't stop until forced to. Any significance that the
    Xtra site has been Xtra-MSN for a while now? They are getting lessons from
    the best at monopolistic practices and delaying actions methinks.

    Scum. <spits>. And I've got a reminder note on my desk with "Ring 0800 jet
    xtra" written on it. The free install is the only way I'm going to get into
    DSL the way things stand financially. Any other company offering it? The
    "install" is a Telecom thing anyway isn't it? So only they would be in a
    position to offer it. Surely that's taking advantage of a monopoly?
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 16, 2004
    #7
  8. ..Waylon Smithers..

    EMB Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:

    >
    > Scum. <spits>. And I've got a reminder note on my desk with "Ring 0800 jet
    > xtra" written on it. The free install is the only way I'm going to get into
    > DSL the way things stand financially. Any other company offering it? The
    > "install" is a Telecom thing anyway isn't it? So only they would be in a
    > position to offer it. Surely that's taking advantage of a monopoly?


    Ihug and orcon are definitely both offering it, and I think it's pretty
    universal across all the ISP's.

    --
    EMB
    change two to the number to reply
     
    EMB, Sep 16, 2004
    #8
  9. On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:51:24 +1200, "~misfit~"
    <> wrote:

    >Scum. <spits>. And I've got a reminder note on my desk with "Ring 0800 jet
    >xtra" written on it. The free install is the only way I'm going to get into
    >DSL the way things stand financially. Any other company offering it? The
    >"install" is a Telecom thing anyway isn't it? So only they would be in a
    >position to offer it. Surely that's taking advantage of a monopoly?


    http://www.telecom.co.nz/chm/0,5123,203191-202335,00.html

    http://www.ihug.co.nz/products/jetstream/specialoffer.html

    Seems to be pretty similar?

    --
    Kristofer Clayton (KJClayton)
    Gisborne, New Zealand
     
    Kristofer Clayton, Sep 16, 2004
    #9
  10. ..Waylon Smithers..

    Chris Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in
    news:uy42d.2928$:

    > Andrew Bryson wrote:
    >> "JedMeister" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Lt22d.2853$...
    >>> Just my guess - it is in telecoms shareholder interest to delay ,
    >>> and to make Xtra the best provider.

    >>
    >> Since Telecom has never even tried to make xtra the best provider,
    >> one could reasonably assume that that is not high on their list of
    >> priorities :p.

    >
    > Hence they delay and nobbling of other providors Telecom has always
    > indulged in.
    >
    > They are the epitome of capitalist scum. Novels have been written
    > about companies with far better ethics than Telecom. They are bleeding
    > the NZ consumer white and won't stop until forced to. Any significance
    > that the Xtra site has been Xtra-MSN for a while now? They are getting
    > lessons from the best at monopolistic practices and delaying actions
    > methinks.
    >
    > Scum. <spits>. And I've got a reminder note on my desk with "Ring 0800
    > jet xtra" written on it. The free install is the only way I'm going to
    > get into DSL the way things stand financially. Any other company
    > offering it? The "install" is a Telecom thing anyway isn't it? So only
    > they would be in a position to offer it. Surely that's taking
    > advantage of a monopoly? --
    > ~misfit~
    >
    >


    Exactly, it's a Telecom thing, so if the UBS goes ahead you won't be able
    to change providers with out incuring the early connection fee surely ?
    So, I guess the question is, do you want to wait for the UBS thing to be
    sorted out and signup to your ISP of choice with out any Telecom
    *involvement* at a price that *might* be lower or go with Telecom now and
    choose which ISP will provide the content. Looks to me like a customer
    grab by Telecom to me, cause who is going to want to pay a disconection
    fee to sign up to another ISP just because they don't like Telecom/Xtra ?


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    Chris, Sep 16, 2004
    #10
  11. -=rjh=- wrote:
    > In the present climate, Telecom just can't lose. And in the interim, I
    > suspect they'll be able to apply data caps and not permit static IPs,
    > which removes a couple of the features Orcon were offering.


    From what I'm told, static IP addresses will be possible. Data caps
    should be possible, but rate limiting once a limit is reached (as
    proposed by IHUG) will not be.

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Sep 16, 2004
    #11
  12. ..Waylon Smithers..

    will Guest


    > Exactly, it's a Telecom thing, so if the UBS goes ahead you won't be able
    > to change providers with out incuring the early connection fee surely ?
    > So, I guess the question is, do you want to wait for the UBS thing to be
    > sorted out and signup to your ISP of choice with out any Telecom
    > *involvement* at a price that *might* be lower or go with Telecom now and
    > choose which ISP will provide the content. Looks to me like a customer
    > grab by Telecom to me, cause who is going to want to pay a disconection
    > fee to sign up to another ISP just because they don't like Telecom/Xtra ?



    #### i asked a similar question before, regarding the 6-month contract
    vs new pricing from Orcon etc.
    anyway i have posted my reasoning here:
    http://usefool.interneh.com/more.aspx?fid=24

    cheers,

    will.
     
    will, Sep 16, 2004
    #12
  13. ..Waylon Smithers..

    Chris Guest

    will <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    >> Exactly, it's a Telecom thing, so if the UBS goes ahead you won't be
    >> able to change providers with out incuring the early connection fee
    >> surely ? So, I guess the question is, do you want to wait for the UBS
    >> thing to be sorted out and signup to your ISP of choice with out any
    >> Telecom *involvement* at a price that *might* be lower or go with
    >> Telecom now and choose which ISP will provide the content. Looks to
    >> me like a customer grab by Telecom to me, cause who is going to want
    >> to pay a disconection fee to sign up to another ISP just because they
    >> don't like Telecom/Xtra ?

    >
    >
    > #### i asked a similar question before, regarding the 6-month
    > contract vs new pricing from Orcon etc.
    > anyway i have posted my reasoning here:
    > http://usefool.interneh.com/more.aspx?fid=24
    >
    > cheers,
    >
    > will.
    >


    Your reasoning looks pretty logical to me, but, it doesn't look like Orcon
    (or anyone else) is going to roll out any service and I'm sure Xtra will
    drop their price. On this basis the savings wouldn't be as great, but we
    will never know untill after it's to late to make an "informed" decission.


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    Chris, Sep 16, 2004
    #13
  14. ..Waylon Smithers..

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Chris wrote:
    > will <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    >>
    >>> Exactly, it's a Telecom thing, so if the UBS goes ahead you won't be
    >>> able to change providers with out incuring the early connection fee
    >>> surely ? So, I guess the question is, do you want to wait for the
    >>> UBS thing to be sorted out and signup to your ISP of choice with
    >>> out any Telecom *involvement* at a price that *might* be lower or
    >>> go with Telecom now and choose which ISP will provide the content.
    >>> Looks to me like a customer grab by Telecom to me, cause who is
    >>> going to want to pay a disconection fee to sign up to another ISP
    >>> just because they don't like Telecom/Xtra ?

    >>
    >>
    >> #### i asked a similar question before, regarding the 6-month
    >> contract vs new pricing from Orcon etc.
    >> anyway i have posted my reasoning here:
    >> http://usefool.interneh.com/more.aspx?fid=24
    >>
    >> cheers,
    >>
    >> will.
    >>

    >
    > Your reasoning looks pretty logical to me, but, it doesn't look like
    > Orcon (or anyone else) is going to roll out any service and I'm sure
    > Xtra will drop their price. On this basis the savings wouldn't be as
    > great, but we will never know untill after it's to late to make an
    > "informed" decission.


    Yeah, I was going to go the Orcon route but find myself in a position where
    I have a hard-wired monitored alarm and would need a telecom install rather
    than a self-install. This, combined with my financial situation, puts Orcon
    out of my reach presently.

    I'm not sure how I'd go with a Telecom install as opposed to a self-install
    with these plans, I haven't discovered that yet. Normally the difference is
    $149 which is why I'm still on dial-up. $249 for Telecom to spend 10 minutes
    at my house. I'd like to do the self-install but multiple calls to the alarm
    company have not helped at all. I'm on a contract with them until Feb of
    next year or I'd threaten to cancel my contract if they didn't fit a filter
    into their line themselves. With DSL becoming more popular you'd think that
    their alarm systems would have a filter built-in already. Especially as they
    insist on hard-wiring them in, under the house.

    Just checked the Ihug link provided by Kristofer (thanks) and I see the free
    offer is self install only and doesn't include any filters/splitters. An
    extra $149 is payable if the Telecom install is required. I have a DSL modem
    already.

    Looks like I'm on dial-up for a while longer.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 16, 2004
    #14
  15. ..Waylon Smithers..

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Chris wrote:
    > will <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    >
    >>>Exactly, it's a Telecom thing, so if the UBS goes ahead you won't be
    >>>able to change providers with out incuring the early connection fee
    >>>surely ? So, I guess the question is, do you want to wait for the UBS
    >>>thing to be sorted out and signup to your ISP of choice with out any
    >>>Telecom *involvement* at a price that *might* be lower or go with
    >>>Telecom now and choose which ISP will provide the content. Looks to
    >>>me like a customer grab by Telecom to me, cause who is going to want
    >>>to pay a disconection fee to sign up to another ISP just because they
    >>>don't like Telecom/Xtra ?

    >>
    >>
    >>#### i asked a similar question before, regarding the 6-month
    >>contract vs new pricing from Orcon etc.
    >>anyway i have posted my reasoning here:
    >>http://usefool.interneh.com/more.aspx?fid=24
    >>
    >>cheers,
    >>
    >>will.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Your reasoning looks pretty logical to me, but, it doesn't look like Orcon
    > (or anyone else) is going to roll out any service and I'm sure Xtra will
    > drop their price. On this basis the savings wouldn't be as great, but we
    > will never know untill after it's to late to make an "informed" decission.
    >

    Oh, rubbish! That is just speculation on your part.

    Orcon have already stated today that they will be continuing to offer
    their planned service to customers -

    "UPDATE 16 Sept: There have been several reports in the media that the
    launch of Telecom's new wholesale DSL service has been delayed due to
    technical problems. Telecom have successfully implemented an interim
    solution to enable our new plans to be launched as described here, at
    the beginning of October."

    Also, you only need to be an existing Orcon Jetstart customer to
    qualify, currently that costs $49.90/month all up. You don't have to be
    a JetStream Surf flatrate customer. The new UBS/interim based plan will
    cost 5c more :-(

    The nearest Telecom plan is $69.95 - it doesn't even come close. Why
    anybody would even bother with Telecom is beyond me. Installation fees
    don't even figure into this with that kind of price differential.

    --------------

    The only bad thing I have to say about Orcon, is their newsfeed is
    appalling - look below - the newsfeeds footer has re-appeared!


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    -=rjh=-, Sep 16, 2004
    #15
  16. ..Waylon Smithers..

    Chris Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in
    news:aZ62d.2991$:

    > Chris wrote:
    >> will <> wrote in
    >> news::
    >>
    >>>
    >>>> Exactly, it's a Telecom thing, so if the UBS goes ahead you won't
    >>>> be able to change providers with out incuring the early connection
    >>>> fee surely ? So, I guess the question is, do you want to wait for
    >>>> the UBS thing to be sorted out and signup to your ISP of choice
    >>>> with out any Telecom *involvement* at a price that *might* be lower
    >>>> or go with Telecom now and choose which ISP will provide the
    >>>> content. Looks to me like a customer grab by Telecom to me, cause
    >>>> who is going to want to pay a disconection fee to sign up to
    >>>> another ISP just because they don't like Telecom/Xtra ?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> #### i asked a similar question before, regarding the 6-month
    >>> contract vs new pricing from Orcon etc.
    >>> anyway i have posted my reasoning here:
    >>> http://usefool.interneh.com/more.aspx?fid=24
    >>>
    >>> cheers,
    >>>
    >>> will.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Your reasoning looks pretty logical to me, but, it doesn't look like
    >> Orcon (or anyone else) is going to roll out any service and I'm sure
    >> Xtra will drop their price. On this basis the savings wouldn't be as
    >> great, but we will never know untill after it's to late to make an
    >> "informed" decission.

    >
    > Yeah, I was going to go the Orcon route but find myself in a position
    > where I have a hard-wired monitored alarm and would need a telecom
    > install rather than a self-install. This, combined with my financial
    > situation, puts Orcon out of my reach presently.
    >

    This might not help you, and may not even work, but I would have though
    that you could have installed a filter on your side of the Telecom box on
    your house - where the cable comes into your house.

    Would it work if you cut the phone cable before it goes to any jacks
    installed the filter (you would have to crimp on the right connectors)
    and run a new cable (like an extension lead) to where you want the router
    to sit ? after all a Telecom install is basically a filter in it's own
    jackbox isn't it ?

    The only question is, would your alarm run OK over the same line to the
    exchange that carries the ADSL. Do these alarms have some special
    requirement ? I though they were just a modem.

    Maybe someone knows more about this than me and would like to comment
    (this is an an invertation to all the blow hards that think they know
    everything about everything, not that I would want to mention any names
    :)


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    Chris, Sep 16, 2004
    #16
  17. ..Waylon Smithers..

    Chris Guest

    -=rjh=- <> wrote in news::

    > Chris wrote:


    >> Your reasoning looks pretty logical to me, but, it doesn't look like
    >> Orcon (or anyone else) is going to roll out any service and I'm sure
    >> Xtra will drop their price. On this basis the savings wouldn't be as
    >> great, but we will never know untill after it's to late to make an
    >> "informed" decission.
    >>

    > Oh, rubbish! That is just speculation on your part.


    Really ?, now you have read the whole thread haven't you

    >
    > Orcon have already stated today that they will be continuing to offer
    > their planned service to customers -
    >
    > "UPDATE 16 Sept: There have been several reports in the media that the
    > launch of Telecom's new wholesale DSL service has been delayed due to
    > technical problems. Telecom have successfully implemented an interim
    > solution to enable our new plans to be launched as described here, at
    > the beginning of October."


    I guess you think your pretty smart having found a news report dated with
    todays date, but alais, you have shot your load up wind.
    >
    > Also, you only need to be an existing Orcon Jetstart customer


    Misfit doesn't have an existing ADSL connection of any kind so this
    doesn't apply.


    to
    > qualify, currently that costs $49.90/month all up. You don't have to
    > be a JetStream Surf flatrate customer. The new UBS/interim based plan
    > will cost 5c more :-(
    >
    > The nearest Telecom plan is $69.95 - it doesn't even come close. Why
    > anybody would even bother with Telecom is beyond me. Installation fees
    > don't even figure into this with that kind of price differential.
    >
    > --------------
    >
    > The only bad thing I have to say about Orcon, is their newsfeed is
    > appalling - look below - the newsfeeds footer has re-appeared!
    >
    >
    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
    >




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    Chris, Sep 16, 2004
    #17
  18. ..Waylon Smithers..

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_dave.net.nz> wrote:

    > ..Waylon Smithers.. wrote:
    > > A real pity for ISP's with all of that advertising $$ already spent :-(

    >
    > well done Telecom/Xtra.
    > Screwed the customer and "retailer" in one foul swoop.


    thats "fell swoop"
     
    whoisthis, Sep 16, 2004
    #18
  19. ..Waylon Smithers..

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Chris wrote:
    > -=rjh=- <> wrote in news::
    >
    >
    >>Chris wrote:

    >
    >
    >>>Your reasoning looks pretty logical to me, but, it doesn't look like
    >>>Orcon (or anyone else) is going to roll out any service and I'm sure
    >>>Xtra will drop their price. On this basis the savings wouldn't be as
    >>>great, but we will never know untill after it's to late to make an
    >>>"informed" decission.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Oh, rubbish! That is just speculation on your part.

    >
    >
    > Really ?, now you have read the whole thread haven't you
    >
    >
    >>Orcon have already stated today that they will be continuing to offer
    >>their planned service to customers -
    >>
    >>"UPDATE 16 Sept: There have been several reports in the media that the
    >>launch of Telecom's new wholesale DSL service has been delayed due to
    >>technical problems. Telecom have successfully implemented an interim
    >>solution to enable our new plans to be launched as described here, at
    >>the beginning of October."

    >
    >
    > I guess you think your pretty smart having found a news report dated with
    > todays date, but alais, you have shot your load up wind.


    Say what?

    You said:

    "it doesn't look like Orcon (or anyone else) is going to roll out any
    service"

    I replied with a statement that Orcon currently have on their website.

    Why the abuse?



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    -=rjh=-, Sep 16, 2004
    #19
  20. whoisthis wrote:
    >>>A real pity for ISP's with all of that advertising $$ already spent :-(


    >>well done Telecom/Xtra.
    >>Screwed the customer and "retailer" in one foul swoop.


    > thats "fell swoop"


    yeah ok, so Im not good with "tha englash"
    heh, I only just figured out passed/past the other day.
    realised what a dickhead I've been.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 16, 2004
    #20
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