point n shoot? slr?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Beck, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. Beck

    Beck Guest

    To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.

    SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    full manual controls aswell as auto.

    I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?

    There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    point and shoot or slr cameras.
    Beck, Apr 14, 2006
    #1
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  2. Beck

    Jem Raid Guest

    "Beck" <> wrote in message
    news:444011c4$0$33901$...
    > To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    > type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >
    > SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    > full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >
    > I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    > example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    > an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    >
    > There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    > curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    > point and shoot or slr cameras.
    >


    I must say that I consider the 'Point & Shoot' variety to be much more
    versatile. The one I have has a tilting screen and can be used like an SLR
    and a TLR, very useful when close to the ground or taking candid group
    pictures, I use a black cloth in bright light (the one I used to use with my
    5x4) They are also very quiet little machines.

    But see;
    http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6468-7844
    very interesting.

    Jem

    -------------------------------------
    Birmingham Independent Photographers
    http://bip.wikispaces.com/
    Jem Raid, Apr 14, 2006
    #2
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  3. "Beck" <> wrote in message
    news:444011c4$0$33901$...

    > To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    > type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >
    > SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    > full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >
    > I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    > example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    > an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    >
    > There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    > curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    > point and shoot or slr cameras.


    From what I gather, it seems that the main factor which separates p&s to
    dslr is the type of viewfinder.

    A dslr will give you a "real" preview image projected onto a ground glass
    viewfinder, wheras a p&s will show the preview on a low-resolution "evf" or
    electronic viewfinder, which can never really compare with the "real"
    preview that a dslr gives. Another problem with the evf is that the image
    often lags behind what is actually happening.
    Adrian Boliston, Apr 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Beck

    Mark M Guest

    "Beck" <> wrote in message news:444011c4$0$33901$...
    > To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    > type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >
    > SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    > full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >
    > I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    > example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    > an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    >
    > There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    > curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    > point and shoot or slr cameras.


    The gap between the two gets smaller every year. E.g. Sony's R1
    released last November has a huge SLR-type CMOS sensor, but is
    a fixed lens P&S (although no movie mode, a feature found on virtually
    all P&S cameras today).

    The distinction between SLR's and P&S's is evolving more into a
    difference of image quality rather than a difference of lens type or
    features. Manufacturers are concentrating on stuffing more and more
    MP onto smaller and smaller sensors in P&S cameras, a trend that's
    both unfortunate and entirely unnecessary. So if you can live with
    relatively mediocre image quality, cameras such as the Canon S2 IS
    (soon to be S3 IS), Fuji's S5500Z etc have some pretty incredible
    feature sets.
    Mark M, Apr 14, 2006
    #4
  5. On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:19:02 +0100, "Beck" <>
    wrote:

    >To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    >type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >
    >SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    >full manual controls aswell as auto.


    Wrong many non-SLR have full manual controls also. Consider these.

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/epson-rd1.shtml

    http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-digilux2-part1.shtml

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/lx1.shtml

    You have a rather simple view of the world of cameras.


    --

    "I have been a witness, and these pictures are
    my testimony. The events I have recorded should
    not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

    -James Nachtwey-
    http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
    John A. Stovall, Apr 14, 2006
    #5
  6. Beck

    Beck Guest

    "Mark M" <> wrote in message
    news:QPU%f.2210$...
    > "Beck" <> wrote in message
    > news:444011c4$0$33901$...
    >> To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    >> type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >>
    >> SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    >> full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >>
    >> I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    >> example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is
    >> not
    >> an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    >>
    >> There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    >> curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    >> point and shoot or slr cameras.

    >
    > The gap between the two gets smaller every year. E.g. Sony's R1
    > released last November has a huge SLR-type CMOS sensor, but is
    > a fixed lens P&S (although no movie mode, a feature found on virtually
    > all P&S cameras today).
    >
    > The distinction between SLR's and P&S's is evolving more into a
    > difference of image quality rather than a difference of lens type or
    > features. Manufacturers are concentrating on stuffing more and more
    > MP onto smaller and smaller sensors in P&S cameras, a trend that's
    > both unfortunate and entirely unnecessary. So if you can live with
    > relatively mediocre image quality, cameras such as the Canon S2 IS
    > (soon to be S3 IS), Fuji's S5500Z etc have some pretty incredible
    > feature sets.


    I do have the Fuji S5500 and I quite like it although my skills in
    photography leave alot to be desired. That is my own fault and not the
    fault of the camera probably :)
    I have had it a year and still don't know how to use it properly, I only
    just found the manual focus :-/
    I am sure SLRs would be of exceptional picture quality and at the end of the
    day people get what they pay for.
    Beck, Apr 14, 2006
    #6
  7. On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:47:20 +0100, "Adrian Boliston"
    <> wrote:

    >"Beck" <> wrote in message
    >news:444011c4$0$33901$...
    >
    >> To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    >> type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >>
    >> SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    >> full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >>
    >> I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    >> example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    >> an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    >>
    >> There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    >> curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    >> point and shoot or slr cameras.

    >
    >From what I gather, it seems that the main factor which separates p&s to
    >dslr is the type of viewfinder.
    >
    >A dslr will give you a "real" preview image projected onto a ground glass
    >viewfinder, wheras a p&s will show the preview on a low-resolution "evf" or
    >electronic viewfinder, which can never really compare with the "real"
    >preview that a dslr gives. Another problem with the evf is that the image
    >often lags behind what is actually happening.
    >


    And where do you put digital rangefinders, such as the Epson RD-1 and
    the coming Leica Digital-M?


    --

    "I have been a witness, and these pictures are
    my testimony. The events I have recorded should
    not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

    -James Nachtwey-
    http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
    John A. Stovall, Apr 14, 2006
    #7
  8. Beck

    Beck Guest

    "Adrian Boliston" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Beck" <> wrote in message
    > news:444011c4$0$33901$...
    >
    >> To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    >> type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >>
    >> SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    >> full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >>
    >> I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    >> example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is
    >> not an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    >>
    >> There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    >> curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    >> point and shoot or slr cameras.

    >
    > From what I gather, it seems that the main factor which separates p&s to
    > dslr is the type of viewfinder.
    >
    > A dslr will give you a "real" preview image projected onto a ground glass
    > viewfinder, wheras a p&s will show the preview on a low-resolution "evf"
    > or electronic viewfinder, which can never really compare with the "real"
    > preview that a dslr gives. Another problem with the evf is that the image
    > often lags behind what is actually happening.


    Ah well this I did not know. Having never looked at an SLR camera I have no
    real idea of what features they do have. My camera EVF is not that great.
    It does alledgedly have 100% frame coverage, but its the grainyness of it
    that makes it look cheap. However it does work well in low light, so thats
    something to be thankful of.
    Beck, Apr 14, 2006
    #8
  9. Beck

    Beck Guest

    "Jem Raid" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I must say that I consider the 'Point & Shoot' variety to be much more
    > versatile. The one I have has a tilting screen and can be used like an SLR
    > and a TLR, very useful when close to the ground or taking candid group
    > pictures, I use a black cloth in bright light (the one I used to use with
    > my 5x4) They are also very quiet little machines.
    >
    > But see;
    > http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6468-7844
    > very interesting.


    That is a fascinating site, thankyou for showing it to me. It also goes to
    show that a photographers skills can outweigh a cameras features. Its all
    very well having the most expensive up to date SLR, but if someone (like me)
    who has no idea on how to set the camera for certain conditions, then an SLR
    can be pretty useless.
    Beck, Apr 14, 2006
    #9
  10. Beck

    Bill Guest

    Beck wrote:

    >I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    >example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    >an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?


    Some people call the midrange P&S models ZLR cameras. They work similar
    to an SLR with many of the same features, but with a fixed zoom lense. A
    canon S2 IS would be one of these.
    Bill, Apr 14, 2006
    #10
  11. Beck

    Beck Guest

    "John A. Stovall" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:19:02 +0100, "Beck" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    >>type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >>
    >>SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    >>full manual controls aswell as auto.

    >
    > Wrong many non-SLR have full manual controls also. Consider these.
    >
    > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/epson-rd1.shtml
    >
    > http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-digilux2-part1.shtml
    >
    > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/lx1.shtml
    >
    > You have a rather simple view of the world of cameras.


    Wrong in what respect?
    I already mentioned cameras which have full manual controls which are not
    SLR
    Beck, Apr 14, 2006
    #11
  12. Beck

    Beck Guest

    "Bill" <> wrote in message news:...

    > Some people call the midrange P&S models ZLR cameras. They work similar
    > to an SLR with many of the same features, but with a fixed zoom lense. A
    > canon S2 IS would be one of these.


    Now that is something I have never come across. Will this become standard?
    Beck, Apr 14, 2006
    #12
  13. Beck

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:47:20 +0100, "Adrian Boliston"
    <> wrote:

    >"Beck" <> wrote in message
    >news:444011c4$0$33901$...
    >
    >> To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    >> type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >>
    >> SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    >> full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >>
    >> I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    >> example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    >> an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    >>
    >> There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    >> curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    >> point and shoot or slr cameras.

    >
    >From what I gather, it seems that the main factor which separates p&s to
    >dslr is the type of viewfinder.


    And I think it's the size of the sensor.
    There seems to be a disctinct seperation between cameras with APS-C
    (or thereabouts) and larger sensors (call them DSLRs), and the cameras
    with smaller sensors cal them P&S cameras).
    The differences ar emore than just sensor size. More control over the
    picture taking procedure; removable lenses; faster processors (less
    shutter lag); less noise at higher ISOs.
    >
    >A dslr will give you a "real" preview image projected onto a ground glass
    >viewfinder, wheras a p&s will show the preview on a low-resolution "evf" or
    >electronic viewfinder, which can never really compare with the "real"
    >preview that a dslr gives. Another problem with the evf is that the image
    >often lags behind what is actually happening.


    Really? I see alot of P&S cameras with optical viewfinders. Don't you?
    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
    Bill Funk, Apr 14, 2006
    #13
  14. Beck

    Jem Raid Guest

    "Beck" <> wrote in message
    news:444011c4$0$33901$...
    > To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    > type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >
    > SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    > full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >
    > I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    > example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    > an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    >
    > There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    > curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    > point and shoot or slr cameras.
    >


    Steves digicams is a good place to see the same picture from many different
    cameras. He goes out and takes pictures with each camera he reviews and he
    always makes one image of a particular building, these can be downloaded,
    printed off and compared. I was quite startled when I did a few for
    comparison purposes. At a normal viewing distance say standing with a 9" x
    6"print on a table the difference between a reasonable 3 megapixel camera
    and a 6 megapixel digital SLR was .. nothing.

    Jem

    ----------------------------------------------
    Dramatised - Photography Granularised - Photographs
    Black and White - Prints Blue and White - Cyanotypes
    http://jemraid.wikispaces.com/
    Jem Raid, Apr 14, 2006
    #14
  15. Beck

    Beck Guest

    "Jem Raid" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Steves digicams is a good place to see the same picture from many
    > different cameras. He goes out and takes pictures with each camera he
    > reviews and he always makes one image of a particular building, these can
    > be downloaded, printed off and compared. I was quite startled when I did a
    > few for comparison purposes. At a normal viewing distance say standing
    > with a 9" x 6"print on a table the difference between a reasonable 3
    > megapixel camera and a 6 megapixel digital SLR was .. nothing.


    Spooky Jem, I am just reading that site. Checking out the review for my
    camera. Quite a positive review.
    Its a good site actually, I should visit it more. I need to get my skills
    up though and learn things more :)
    Beck, Apr 15, 2006
    #15
  16. Beck

    Mark M Guest

    "Jem Raid" <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "Beck" <> wrote in message
    > news:444011c4$0$33901$...
    > > To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    > > type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    > >
    > > SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    > > full manual controls aswell as auto.
    > >
    > > I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    > > example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    > > an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?
    > >
    > > There is no real reason I need to know this, its just merely out of
    > > curiousity because in my experience the media tend to talk about either
    > > point and shoot or slr cameras.
    > >

    >
    > Steves digicams is a good place to see the same picture from many different
    > cameras. He goes out and takes pictures with each camera he reviews and he
    > always makes one image of a particular building, these can be downloaded,
    > printed off and compared. I was quite startled when I did a few for
    > comparison purposes. At a normal viewing distance say standing with a 9" x
    > 6"print on a table the difference between a reasonable 3 megapixel camera
    > and a 6 megapixel digital SLR was .. nothing.


    That's misleading. E.g. try comparing images at ISO 800 and
    get back to us.. :)
    Mark M, Apr 15, 2006
    #16
  17. Beck

    ASAAR Guest

    On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:19:02 +0100, Beck wrote:

    > To me, a point and shoot camera has always been of the small pocketable
    > type that have barely any manual controls and maybe a few set scenes.
    >
    > SLR would be a camera type (apart from being single lens reflex) that has
    > full manual controls aswell as auto.
    >
    > I am curious as to what the middle cameras would be? You know like for
    > example the Fuji S5500 that has a full range of manual controls but is not
    > an SLR. Would that still be classed as a point and shoot camera?


    I think that the original definition of a point and shoot camera
    was a simple film camera that had few controls and was designed
    primarily for simplicity and low cost. It evolved to include most
    smaller, non-DSLR cameras, although some of the more versatile ones
    are tagged as ZLRs. I also have a Fuji S5500 (although on my side
    of the pond it's called an S5100). I don't mind calling it a P&S,
    although its many controls it's more of a P&P (point and putter).
    To further muddy the waters, I'd say that anyone experienced and
    talented enough with a DSLR to be able to take good photos rapidly,
    even if occasionally making adjustments while shooting, and
    seemingly doing it instinctively, without thinking, can be said to
    be a Point-and-Shooter. But a very, very good one. <g>
    ASAAR, Apr 15, 2006
    #17
  18. Beck

    Peter Chant Guest

    Bill wrote:


    > Some people call the midrange P&S models ZLR cameras. They work similar
    > to an SLR with many of the same features, but with a fixed zoom lense. A
    > canon S2 IS would be one of these.


    But are they a reflex camera?

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk
    Peter Chant, Apr 15, 2006
    #18
  19. "Bill Funk" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >>A dslr will give you a "real" preview image projected onto a ground glass
    >>viewfinder, wheras a p&s will show the preview on a low-resolution "evf"
    >>or
    >>electronic viewfinder, which can never really compare with the "real"
    >>preview that a dslr gives. Another problem with the evf is that the image
    >>often lags behind what is actually happening.

    >
    > Really? I see alot of P&S cameras with optical viewfinders. Don't you?


    The ones I have seen have been cheap viewfinders which are not "thru the
    lens" ones found on a dslr.
    Adrian Boliston, Apr 15, 2006
    #19
  20. Beck

    tomm42 Guest

    A low end Pentax or Minolta/Konica/Sony, are not that much more than
    your 5500, and not much bigger. I believe (I'll be corrected I'm sure)
    they both have prism view finders rather than the mirror viewfinders
    Canon and Nikon have. Their lenses are well received on these two. My
    holy grail is to have the 5K the digital Leica M will cost. If you have
    $3500 you can get the Epson rangefinder with a Cosina lens. How Cosina
    can make decent lenses for their range finder cameras and terrible
    lenses for SLRs is beyond me.

    Tom
    tomm42, Apr 15, 2006
    #20
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