php mysql ticketing systems...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 2, 2004
    #1
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  2. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Gordon Smith Guest

    Gordon Smith, Jun 3, 2004
    #2
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  3. Gordon Smith wrote:
    >>For a job logging type system, preferrably multi user(as in multiple CSR
    >>type users), and able to accept emails and webform type input.


    > RT - http://www.fsck.com


    RT uses perl and python doesnt it.
    /me looks at the URL
    perl anyway... want to stay away from it at the moment, just want to
    mess with php.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
    http://www.dunedinwireless.co.nz
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 3, 2004
    #3
  4. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Gordon Smith Guest

    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_please.dave.net.nz> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Gordon Smith wrote:
    > >>For a job logging type system, preferrably multi user(as in multiple CSR
    > >>type users), and able to accept emails and webform type input.

    >
    > > RT - http://www.fsck.com

    >
    > RT uses perl and python doesnt it.
    > /me looks at the URL
    > perl anyway... want to stay away from it at the moment, just want to
    > mess with php.
    >
    > --
    > Dave Hall
    > http://www.dave.net.nz
    > http://www.dunedinwireless.co.nz


    It uses perl & mason
    Pretty tricky code-wise, but it does work well... and you've used it before
    :)
    Gordon Smith, Jun 4, 2004
    #4
  5. Gordon Smith wrote:
    >>>>For a job logging type system, preferrably multi user(as in multiple CSR
    >>>>type users), and able to accept emails and webform type input.
    >>>RT - http://www.fsck.com

    >>RT uses perl and python doesnt it.
    >>/me looks at the URL
    >>perl anyway... want to stay away from it at the moment, just want to
    >>mess with php.


    > It uses perl & mason
    > Pretty tricky code-wise, but it does work well... and you've used it before


    no I havent, I left just prior to RT... well, just after, but I wasn't
    in the call centre, and didn't have a logon.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
    http://www.dunedinwireless.co.nz
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 4, 2004
    #5
  6. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Gordon Smith Guest

    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_please.dave.net.nz> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > > It uses perl & mason
    > > Pretty tricky code-wise, but it does work well... and you've used it

    before
    >
    > no I havent, I left just prior to RT... well, just after, but I wasn't
    > in the call centre, and didn't have a logon.
    >
    > --
    > Dave Hall
    > http://www.dave.net.nz
    > http://www.dunedinwireless.co.nz


    Ahh... that sucks
    It's not too bad to set up - very configurable. I had it replying with
    different templates that were dependent on which email address received the
    message e.g. the abuse@ addy replied with a blurb on what was needed for
    abuse complaints, like logs, timezones, etc
    There's also an FAQ module which I put in, but we hadn't started using when
    I left
    Gordon Smith, Jun 4, 2004
    #6
  7. Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 4, 2004
    #7
  8. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 09:27:34 +1200, "Dave - Dave.net.nz"
    <dave@no_spam_here_please.dave.net.nz> wrote:

    >Gordon Smith wrote:
    >>>For a job logging type system, preferrably multi user(as in multiple CSR
    >>>type users), and able to accept emails and webform type input.

    >
    >> RT - http://www.fsck.com

    >
    >RT uses perl and python doesnt it.
    >/me looks at the URL
    >perl anyway... want to stay away from it at the moment, just want to
    >mess with php.
    >

    php is OK for small sites, but it sucks on a large site. Just think
    how many times you get php errors when random browsing. Lots! Maybe
    you could blame it on the php programmers, but to some extent at least
    the proficiency of the programmers is determined by the abilities of
    the language.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Jun 4, 2004
    #8
  9. In article <>,
    Enkidu <> wrote:

    >php is OK for small sites, but it sucks on a large site. Just think
    >how many times you get php errors when random browsing. Lots! Maybe
    >you could blame it on the php programmers, but to some extent at least
    >the proficiency of the programmers is determined by the abilities of
    >the language.


    Could we just say that the nature of PHP attracts a certain class of
    programmer... :)
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 5, 2004
    #9
  10. In article <>,
    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_please.dave.net.nz> wrote:

    >RT uses perl and python doesnt it.
    >/me looks at the URL
    >perl anyway... want to stay away from it at the moment, just want to
    >mess with php.


    Perl has a much nicer database interface in the DBI add-on module than
    PHP does with its built-in functions. Perl DBI lets you hide the
    difference between DBMSes and write common code to work with them all.
    It also supports features like bulk-insert and autoquoting. Having used
    both Perl and PHP with MySQL, I recommend you look at the Perl option.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 5, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <>, ldo@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand says...
    > In article <>,
    > Enkidu <> wrote:
    >
    > >php is OK for small sites, but it sucks on a large site. Just think
    > >how many times you get php errors when random browsing. Lots! Maybe
    > >you could blame it on the php programmers, but to some extent at least
    > >the proficiency of the programmers is determined by the abilities of
    > >the language.

    >
    > Could we just say that the nature of PHP attracts a certain class of
    > programmer... :)


    Basically this is crap, I see a lot of error messages reported on the
    older PHP3 type sites where the configured default is to report errors,
    there is nothing wrong with PHP itself, but you see these errors because
    it is not configured to log them only.
    Patrick Dunford, Jun 6, 2004
    #11
  12. In article <>, ldo@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand says...
    > In article <>,
    > "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_please.dave.net.nz> wrote:
    >
    > >RT uses perl and python doesnt it.
    > >/me looks at the URL
    > >perl anyway... want to stay away from it at the moment, just want to
    > >mess with php.

    >
    > Perl has a much nicer database interface in the DBI add-on module than
    > PHP does with its built-in functions. Perl DBI lets you hide the
    > difference between DBMSes and write common code to work with them all.
    > It also supports features like bulk-insert and autoquoting. Having used
    > both Perl and PHP with MySQL, I recommend you look at the Perl option.


    I'd say you don't know anything about PHP, database abstraction has been
    in PHP for years.
    Patrick Dunford, Jun 6, 2004
    #12
  13. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:26:53 +1200, Patrick Dunford
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>, ldo@geek-
    >central.gen.new_zealand says...
    >> In article <>,
    >> Enkidu <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >php is OK for small sites, but it sucks on a large site. Just think
    >> >how many times you get php errors when random browsing. Lots! Maybe
    >> >you could blame it on the php programmers, but to some extent at least
    >> >the proficiency of the programmers is determined by the abilities of
    >> >the language.

    >>
    >> Could we just say that the nature of PHP attracts a certain class of
    >> programmer... :)

    >
    >Basically this is crap, I see a lot of error messages reported on the
    >older PHP3 type sites where the configured default is to report errors,
    >there is nothing wrong with PHP itself, but you see these errors because
    >it is not configured to log them only.
    >

    Basically this is crap. I guess you are talking about PEAR, which
    manages to basically obfuscate what should be simple - connecting to a
    database. Perl does it a lot better.

    As for PHP being configured wrongly to show errors instead of logging
    them, that's also rubbish. A white screen with a PHP error message is
    not caused merely by a misconfiguration.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Jun 6, 2004
    #13
  14. In article <>,
    says...
    > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:26:53 +1200, Patrick Dunford
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>, ldo@geek-
    > >central.gen.new_zealand says...
    > >> In article <>,
    > >> Enkidu <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >php is OK for small sites, but it sucks on a large site. Just think
    > >> >how many times you get php errors when random browsing. Lots! Maybe
    > >> >you could blame it on the php programmers, but to some extent at least
    > >> >the proficiency of the programmers is determined by the abilities of
    > >> >the language.
    > >>
    > >> Could we just say that the nature of PHP attracts a certain class of
    > >> programmer... :)

    > >
    > >Basically this is crap, I see a lot of error messages reported on the
    > >older PHP3 type sites where the configured default is to report errors,
    > >there is nothing wrong with PHP itself, but you see these errors because
    > >it is not configured to log them only.
    > >

    > Basically this is crap. I guess you are talking about PEAR, which
    > manages to basically obfuscate what should be simple - connecting to a
    > database. Perl does it a lot better.


    Perl is full of crap, it is way too complicated a language to use for
    what it is designed for.

    The PHP database functions are very straightforward.

    > As for PHP being configured wrongly to show errors instead of logging
    > them, that's also rubbish. A white screen with a PHP error message is
    > not caused merely by a misconfiguration.


    You have no idea what you're talking about. It's a simple configuration
    that decides whether these error messages are displayed or not. I've seen
    quite a few warning messages displayed on sites because the wrong
    configuration was set.
    Patrick Dunford, Jun 6, 2004
    #14
  15. In article <>,
    Patrick Dunford <> wrote:

    >Perl is full of crap, it is way too complicated a language to use for
    >what it is designed for.
    >
    >The PHP database functions are very straightforward.


    But DBMS-specific. You have different functions for each DBMS, where
    Perl manages to subsume them all into a common interface--the DBI class.
    And Perl, with all its admitted faults, manages to provide additional
    sophisticated functionality like commit/rollback, batch inserts and
    autoquoting, all within a DBMS-independent framework.
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Jun 6, 2004
    #15
  16. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Enkidu Guest

    On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:24:16 +1200, Lawrence D¹Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Patrick Dunford <> wrote:
    >
    >>Perl is full of crap, it is way too complicated a language to use for
    >>what it is designed for.
    >>
    >>The PHP database functions are very straightforward.

    >
    >But DBMS-specific. You have different functions for each DBMS, where
    >Perl manages to subsume them all into a common interface--the DBI class.
    >And Perl, with all its admitted faults, manages to provide additional
    >sophisticated functionality like commit/rollback, batch inserts and
    >autoquoting, all within a DBMS-independent framework.
    >

    That's not true. There is a database function which is intended to be
    DBMS-agnostic in PHP in PEAR. However it's pretty flakey. PEAR tries
    to be a CPAN for PHP.

    http://pear.php.net/

    However MySQL still doesn't use PEAR, while PostgrSQL has to.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Jun 7, 2004
    #16
  17. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:42:28 +1200, Patrick Dunford
    <> wrote:
    >
    >> As for PHP being configured wrongly to show errors instead of logging
    >> them, that's also rubbish. A white screen with a PHP error message is
    >> not caused merely by a misconfiguration.

    >
    >You have no idea what you're talking about. It's a simple configuration
    >that decides whether these error messages are displayed or not. I've seen
    >quite a few warning messages displayed on sites because the wrong
    >configuration was set.
    >

    A raw message saying that there has been a database or other error is
    simply a programming error and not a configuration error. That is
    wrong for two reasons. Firstly the programmer has allowed the error to
    happen by not programming for error conditions and secondly the
    programmer has allowed the database error to reach the end user and
    not handled it properly. .

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Jun 7, 2004
    #17
  18. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    AD. Guest

    On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:23:17 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    > A raw message saying that there has been a database or other error is
    > simply a programming error and not a configuration error. That is wrong
    > for two reasons. Firstly the programmer has allowed the error to happen by
    > not programming for error conditions and secondly the programmer has
    > allowed the database error to reach the end user and not handled it
    > properly. .


    That still sounds like a judgement of the programmers not necessarily the
    language. I'm not wanting to defend PHP, but it is possible to handle
    those errors properly. Then again, VB probably does too hehe.

    I think Lawrence was spot on about PHP attracting a certain class of
    programmer though :)

    PHP and MySQL have a huge network effect. They are pretty much the only
    really ubiquitous choices for hosting, and are fairly easy to make your
    stuff work no matter where it is hosted. Having tried to get a Tomcat and
    PostreSQL site hosted somewhere a while back, it was an exercise in
    frustration - and I imagine it's a similar situation with things like Zope
    etc.

    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Jun 7, 2004
    #18
  19. In article <>, ldo@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand says...
    > In article <>,
    > Patrick Dunford <> wrote:
    >
    > >Perl is full of crap, it is way too complicated a language to use for
    > >what it is designed for.
    > >
    > >The PHP database functions are very straightforward.

    >
    > But DBMS-specific.


    Rubbish.
    Patrick Dunford, Jun 7, 2004
    #19
  20. In article <>,
    says...
    > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:42:28 +1200, Patrick Dunford
    > <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> As for PHP being configured wrongly to show errors instead of logging
    > >> them, that's also rubbish. A white screen with a PHP error message is
    > >> not caused merely by a misconfiguration.

    > >
    > >You have no idea what you're talking about. It's a simple configuration
    > >that decides whether these error messages are displayed or not. I've seen
    > >quite a few warning messages displayed on sites because the wrong
    > >configuration was set.
    > >

    > A raw message saying that there has been a database or other error is
    > simply a programming error and not a configuration error. That is
    > wrong for two reasons. Firstly the programmer has allowed the error to
    > happen by not programming for error conditions and secondly the
    > programmer has allowed the database error to reach the end user and
    > not handled it properly. .


    So it's a programming problem, not a PHP problem
    Patrick Dunford, Jun 7, 2004
    #20
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