Photoshop recommendations

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Neil Jones, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. Neil Jones

    tony cooper Guest

    On 27 Dec 2008 16:23:40 GMT, ray <> wrote:

    >OK, so let's say 'many' rather than 'most'. The point I was attempting to
    >make is that unless you spend most of your day every day in front of the
    >computer playing with the software, 30 days is likely to be enough to get
    >a very general introduction - certainly not to master anything or get a
    >real feel for what it will do. I have a life aside from photography. My
    >time would be limited to a few hours here and there. I find 30 days to be
    >quite a short evaluation period. But since I'm not likely to evaluate
    >adobe products until the Linux version comes out, I guess my opinion does
    >not count.



    Photoshop users will not tell you they have mastered Photoshop in 30
    days even if they devote their full time to Photoshop. However, a 30
    day trial is more than adequate to evaluate a product. Assuming one
    hour each night five times a week and you have 20 or more hours of
    hands-on use. That's more than enough time to make an evaluation.




    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Dec 28, 2008
    #81
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  2. Neil Jones

    The Real Bev Guest

    John Navas wrote:
    > Marco Tedaldi wrote:
    >>KatWoman schrieb:

    >
    >>> like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
    >>>

    >>did someone diss photoshop? ...

    >
    > Shall we just say GIMP advocacy then? On Linux no less. ;)


    I imagine GIMP would be really nifty if I wanted to use it bad enough to
    actually learn to do stuff with it. I remember that the 'remove the
    redeye' instructions took 3 pages and still didn't work :-(

    Portunately we Friends of the Penguin have Picasa. Doesn't do
    everything that even PS Elements does, but it does what I need.

    --
    Cheers,
    Bev
    *******************************************
    My computer doesn't have to be friendly;
    civil is entirely sufficient.
     
    The Real Bev, Dec 28, 2008
    #82
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  3. Neil Jones

    John Kecskes Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:12:13 -0600, BillGarrens <>
    wrote:

    >On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:31 -0800, John Navas <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens <>
    >>wrote in <>:
    >>
    >>>Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. ...



    Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking
    for the best software available.

    As a matter of interest, what would you class as the best software
    available to manipulate digital photos, which is easy to learn and use
    John
     
    John Kecskes, Dec 28, 2008
    #83
  4. Neil Jones

    Neil Jones Guest

    Hans Dull wrote:
    > Neil Jones wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For
    >> the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with
    >> touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest
    >> are saved.
    >>
    >> I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears
    >> that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area.
    >> To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost.
    >> They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop
    >> version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance
    >> photos? What would be the price range?
    >>
    >> [...]
    >>

    > I can recommend GIMP 2.6.3 - It has everything an amateur photographer needs
    > and it runs on Linux as well as on any Windows (The CPU should be fast
    > allready for both, Gimp or (PS) Photoshop). In my opinon, PS Elements has
    > lower funtionality than Gimp, wich has lower functionality than Photoshop
    > CS. PS is a verry powerful Software which ist too powerful for an Amateur.
    >


    For now, I think I will stay with GIMP (to save some money).

    Thank you everyone for giving me great ideas about which product would
    better suit my amateur skills.

    Happy New Year and peace on earth everyone!

    Regards,

    NJ
     
    Neil Jones, Dec 28, 2008
    #84
  5. Neil Jones

    Neil Jones Guest

    John Navas wrote:
    > On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:08:02 -0500, Neil Jones
    > <> wrote in
    > <8uG5l.21519$>:
    >
    >> For now, I think I will stay with GIMP (to save some money).

    >
    > $28 is too much?
    >
    > Thanks for wasting our time.
    >


    There were sold out! I am keeping an eye out for them. Someone earlier
    suggested about Elements being shipped with Wacom Tablets. That version
    of Elements is sort of old. Hopefully in February/March it will be a
    Tablet + CS3.

    Cheers,

    NJ
     
    Neil Jones, Dec 28, 2008
    #85
  6. Neil Jones

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:18:56 -0500, Neil Jones
    <> wrote:

    >John Navas wrote:
    >> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:08:02 -0500, Neil Jones
    >> <> wrote in
    >> <8uG5l.21519$>:
    >>
    >>> For now, I think I will stay with GIMP (to save some money).

    >>
    >> $28 is too much?
    >>
    >> Thanks for wasting our time.
    >>

    >
    >There were sold out! I am keeping an eye out for them. Someone earlier
    >suggested about Elements being shipped with Wacom Tablets. That version
    >of Elements is sort of old. Hopefully in February/March it will be a
    >Tablet + CS3.


    I just got my Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet. The bundled software includes
    Elements 5.0, Corel Painter, and Nik Color Efex Pro 2.0. $87 from
    BuyDig. I already have Elements 5.0, but I like the Nik program.
    I tried the Wacom Bamboo on a very detailed masking project in
    Photoshop, and it works a treat.




    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Dec 28, 2008
    #86
  7. Neil Jones

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "John Navas" wrote: $28 is too much?
    >
    > Thanks for wasting our time. (clip)

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I think you're being a little harsh, John. The posters to this thread were
    not only responding to the OP, but also exchanging ideas among themselves.
    I think many questions raised in such newsgroups, and this is a good
    example, are informative to many others--they provide answers to questions
    that many did not know how to ask.
     
    Leo Lichtman, Dec 28, 2008
    #87
  8. Neil Jones

    Neil Jones Guest

    Leo Lichtman wrote:
    > "John Navas" wrote: $28 is too much?
    >> Thanks for wasting our time. (clip)

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > I think you're being a little harsh, John. The posters to this thread were
    > not only responding to the OP, but also exchanging ideas among themselves.
    > I think many questions raised in such newsgroups, and this is a good
    > example, are informative to many others--they provide answers to questions
    > that many did not know how to ask.
    >



    Thanks for pointing this out. To John's credit who participated in a
    seperate thread, I ended up buying a Panasonic Lumix FZ28S which I love.
    The pictures that I get from this camera are amazing. Suddenly, I
    decided to get more creative and started exploring Photoshop products.
    Ultimately, since I am the "Decider" ;-) I have to be careful about
    pocket busting software products. Even if it only costs $28. The
    hidden expense from jumping into new software is the learning curve and
    the time sink that is created. Lot of people don't realize the time
    sink in software products.

    My .02 cents.

    Thank you for the suggestions though.

    PS - BTW, John you are really good at searching products at discount
    sites which I never knew existed!

    Cheers,

    NJ
     
    Neil Jones, Dec 29, 2008
    #88
  9. Neil Jones

    Matt Ion Guest

    KatWoman wrote:

    >> I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
    >> features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
    >> to see just what to do.

    >
    >
    > Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques


    That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular"
    doesn't mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you'll
    find lots of people willing to discuss it with you... doesn't mean most
    of them have any idea what they're talking about.
     
    Matt Ion, Dec 29, 2008
    #89
  10. Neil Jones

    Matt Ion Guest

    John Navas wrote:
    > On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion <> wrote
    > in <gja521$mn0$>:
    >
    >> KatWoman wrote:
    >>
    >>>> I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
    >>>> features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
    >>>> to see just what to do.
    >>> Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques

    >> That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular"
    >> doesn't mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you'll
    >> find lots of people willing to discuss it with you... doesn't mean most
    >> of them have any idea what they're talking about.

    >
    > I've personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials
    > and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience
    > with books has all too often been worse.


    YOU have... some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube
    search, though... maybe not so much.
     
    Matt Ion, Dec 29, 2008
    #90
  11. Neil Jones

    Matt Ion Guest

    John Navas wrote:
    > On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:05:03 -0800, Matt Ion <> wrote
    > in <gjasgd$7bp$>:
    >
    >> John Navas wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion <> wrote
    >>> in <gja521$mn0$>:
    >>>
    >>>> KatWoman wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
    >>>>>> features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
    >>>>>> to see just what to do.
    >>>>> Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
    >>>> That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular"
    >>>> doesn't mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you'll
    >>>> find lots of people willing to discuss it with you... doesn't mean most
    >>>> of them have any idea what they're talking about.
    >>> I've personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials
    >>> and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience
    >>> with books has all too often been worse.

    >> YOU have... some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube
    >> search, though... maybe not so much.

    >
    > All I can say is that newbies I've referred to YouTube have learned
    > much, and without any real problems.


    Yes, but you're probably referring them to videos that you've already
    vetted. The original point quoted above was not that people have
    problems learning from the videos, but that many of the videos they'll
    stumble across are teaching poor techniques.

    So now that person learns poor techniques, hacks together a few of his
    own, creates his own video to teach those to others... and around it goes.

    It's like someone being taught to drive by an uncle who has a stack of
    moving violations as tall as he is... yeah, he'll still learn to drive,
    but he's gonna pick up some bad habits and wrong ideas in the process.
     
    Matt Ion, Dec 29, 2008
    #91
  12. Neil Jones

    nospam Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Foto Trix <> wrote:

    > Yup, try GIMP before you rush out and pay, it may do everything you
    > want and more. It's basically a clone of Photoshop 6.


    photoshop 6 is about ten years old. nothing like being on the cutting
    edge.
     
    nospam, Jan 29, 2009
    #92
  13. Neil Jones

    The Real Bev Guest

    nospam wrote:

    > In article
    > <>,
    > Foto Trix <> wrote:
    >
    >> Yup, try GIMP before you rush out and pay, it may do everything you
    >> want and more. It's basically a clone of Photoshop 6.

    >
    > photoshop 6 is about ten years old. nothing like being on the cutting
    > edge.


    Just depends on what you need. For many, Picasa (from google, free and very
    easy) is overkill.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    *****************************************************
    Nothing is so stupid that you can't find somebody who
    did it at least once if you look hard enough.
     
    The Real Bev, Feb 1, 2009
    #93
  14. Neil Jones

    Bob Williams Guest

    Neil Jones wrote:
    > harikeo wrote:
    >> harikeo wrote:
    >>> Neil Jones wrote:
    >>>> Always Has An Opinion wrote:
    >>>>> Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be
    >>>>> sufficient. There's a ton of plugins which make things easier, but
    >>>>> I've never needed them. I've retouched photos, created 3D art and
    >>>>> much more with just the basic package.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well.
    >>>>
    >>>> Great idea! I went to Amazon and looked up for CS3 but found that it
    >>>> costs as much as CS4 (even in the used section). They were listed at
    >>>> $649 (USD). Some of the craigslist sellers listed it for $100 to $150.
    >>>> I don't know if these are bootlegged packed with trojans in them. I am
    >>>> suspicious because of the price difference between the new version and
    >>>> used version.
    >>>>
    >>>> What are some good sources to buy cheap/used software like CS3?
    >>>>
    >>>> Thank you once again.
    >>>>
    >>>> NJ
    >>> Howabout Photoshop Elements 7 unless you want/need the full-blown PS CSx?
    >>>
    >>> <mind the rap on the earl>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-6502661...sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1230128042&sr=8-1
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I forgot to mention Gimp 2 which is free http://www.gimp.org/

    >
    > I do have GIMP 2 but haven't done much with it. Photoshop seems to be
    > have a big following and easier to get some help.
    >
    > NJ
    >
    > PS - My digital camera also comes with some software which most people
    > (including myself) haven't heard of before. The software seems to be ok
    > but difficult to get any help.


    If I were you, I would buy Photoshop Elements 7.
    It has practically all of the features of full PS that a novice needs.
    In fact it is made for Novices. Whereas, full PS is made for
    Professionals. The look and feel of Elements and PS is very similar.
    So if, and when, you decide to go with full PS, the transition is
    painless.

    You are right that one of the advantages of PS (or Elements) is that a
    lot of Help and Tutorials are available on the internet.
    Even So, I would purchase a self help book on the subject like
    "Classroom in a Book", by the Adobe Staff. Photo Editors, especially
    powerful and versatile ones are mystifying to the novice. It helps a lot
    to learn the jargon and how to use the editing TOOLS corectly.
    A good book will get you started on the right foot.
    WARNING: Photo Editing can be addictive.
    Bob Williams
     
    Bob Williams, Feb 1, 2009
    #94
  15. In rec.photo.digital Matt Ion <> wrote:
    > KatWoman wrote:


    >>> I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
    >>> features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
    >>> to see just what to do.

    >>
    >>
    >> Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques


    > That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular"
    > doesn't mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you'll
    > find lots of people willing to discuss it with you... doesn't mean most
    > of them have any idea what they're talking about.


    Just like cameras :)

    --
    Chris Malcolm
     
    Chris Malcolm, Mar 23, 2010
    #95
  16. Neil Jones

    David Guest

    In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
    Neil Jones <> wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For
    > the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with
    > touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest
    > are saved.
    >
    > I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears
    > that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area.
    > To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost.
    > They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop
    > version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance
    > photos? What would be the price range?
    >
    > Thank you in advance for any help.
    >
    > Happy Holidays!
    >
    > NJ
    >
    > PS - What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?


    You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you
    want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.

    Suggest you start off with that, and be sure to buy the book "Photoshop
    Elements 9 for Digital Photographers

    I reckon those two will keep you busy for a year or more at least, and
    probably much much longer

    David
     
    David, Jun 21, 2011
    #96
  17. Neil Jones

    Pablo Guest

    David escribió:

    > In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
    > Neil Jones <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For
    >> the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with
    >> touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest
    >> are saved.
    >>
    >> I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears
    >> that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area.
    >> To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost.
    >> They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop
    >> version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance
    >> photos? What would be the price range?
    >>
    >> Thank you in advance for any help.
    >>
    >> Happy Holidays!
    >>
    >> NJ
    >>
    >> PS - What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from
    >> Photoshop?

    >
    > You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you
    > want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.


    UFRaw + The Gimp will cost you nothing but are a tad harder to learn, I
    believe.

    --
    Pablo
     
    Pablo, Jun 21, 2011
    #97
  18. Neil Jones

    tony cooper Guest

    On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:50:07 +1000, David <>
    wrote:

    >In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
    > Neil Jones <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For
    >> the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with
    >> touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest
    >> are saved.
    >>
    >> I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears
    >> that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area.
    >> To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost.
    >> They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop
    >> version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance
    >> photos? What would be the price range?
    >>
    >> Thank you in advance for any help.
    >>
    >> Happy Holidays!
    >>
    >> NJ
    >>
    >> PS - What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

    >
    >You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you
    >want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.
    >
    >Suggest you start off with that, and be sure to buy the book "Photoshop
    >Elements 9 for Digital Photographers
    >
    >I reckon those two will keep you busy for a year or more at least, and
    >probably much much longer
    >

    Those of us who use Adobe Photoshop (full version), and have done so
    for years, will admit - if we are honest - that we only use half to
    two-thirds of the tools and techniques available. There are
    drop-downs we never open.

    Adobe Elements now has almost all of the tools we routinely use in the
    full version. The problem has been that there has always been a lag
    between what is offered in the full version and what is offered in
    Elements. All the new toys (think "content aware") are in the full
    version, and Elements gets them a few years later.

    However, unless you are going to use the program for professional
    reasons, I think Adobe Elements is the best choice for the
    photographer's first foray into advanced post-processing. "Advanced"
    in that the basic post work can be done in IrfanView or any number of
    free, basic programs.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jun 21, 2011
    #98
  19. Neil Jones

    ray Guest

    On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:50:07 +1000, David wrote:

    > In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
    > Neil Jones <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures.
    >> For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them
    >> with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and
    >> the rest are saved.
    >>
    >> I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears
    >> that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area.
    >> To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost.
    >> They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop
    >> version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance
    >> photos? What would be the price range?
    >>
    >> Thank you in advance for any help.
    >>
    >> Happy Holidays!
    >>
    >> NJ
    >>
    >> PS - What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from
    >> Photoshop?

    >
    > You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you
    > want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.
    >
    > Suggest you start off with that, and be sure to buy the book "Photoshop
    > Elements 9 for Digital Photographers
    >
    > I reckon those two will keep you busy for a year or more at least, and
    > probably much much longer
    >
    > David


    Second the suggestion to try GIMP (and UFRAW if you're doing raw
    conversions) before you buy photoshop. You may very well find that they
    will do all you need - at least for some time. Won't cost you a penny to
    try them - won't even cost a penny if you decide to use them forever.

    plugins are additional applications to add more capabilities or make
    various processes easier to apply. At least in the case of GIMP, they
    won't cost you anything either.
     
    ray, Jun 21, 2011
    #99
  20. On Jun 21, 9:25 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:50:07 +1000, David <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
    > > Neil Jones <> wrote:

    >
    > >> Hi,

    >
    > >> I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures.  For
    > >> the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with
    > >> touch ups etc.  The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest
    > >> are saved.

    >
    > >> I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos.  It appears
    > >> that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area.
    > >> To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost..
    > >>  They have tons of products with varying price ranges.  What Photoshop
    > >> version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance
    > >> photos?  What would be the price range?

    >
    > >> Thank you in advance for any help.

    >
    > >> Happy Holidays!

    >
    > >> NJ

    >
    > >> PS - What are plugins?  Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

    >
    > >You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you
    > >want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.

    >
    > >Suggest you start off with that, and be sure to buy the book "Photoshop
    > >Elements 9 for Digital Photographers

    >
    > >I reckon those two will keep you busy for a year or more at least, and
    > >probably much much longer

    >
    > Those of us who use Adobe Photoshop (full version), and have done so
    > for years, will admit - if we are honest - that we only use half to
    > two-thirds of the tools and techniques available.  There are
    > drop-downs we never open.


    That's true. I haven't touched "levels" in years, for example.
    And the font tools have nothing to do with photography.

    But it's a different set for each of us; and most serious users
    use a bunch of things that aren't in Elements or the Gimp,
    I'm afraid.

    At least that was true in the past; which is how I ended
    up being a Photoshop user (I've used Corel Photo Paint,
    Paint Shop Pro, The Gimp, and Picture Window Pro,
    but at this point Photoshop has displaced all of
    those. I use Bibble Pro for batch processing larger
    sets of photos.)

    For me, adjustment layers, and 16-bit adjustment
    layers at that, were the killer ap. I really like the
    lossless editing approach, and those (with layer
    masks) are the thing that really make it possible.
    This is, if anything, MORE important to a
    beginner -- the ability to rethink some earlier
    choices without throwing out all the work since is
    more valuable while you're learning.

    I believe adjustment layers has made it into Elements
    now. Not sure if handles 16-bit yet. If I were starting
    today, that might be just the thing.

    Looks like the Gimp developers keep talking
    about adjustment layers, but haven't done
    anything about them yet (at least haven't
    released anything yet).
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jun 21, 2011
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