Photoshop recommendations

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Neil Jones, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. Neil Jones

    ray Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

    > In article <>, ray <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
    >> > days.

    >>
    >> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!

    >
    > how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
    > purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide
    > within a week or two.


    Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to
    use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.
     
    ray, Dec 27, 2008
    #61
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  2. Neil Jones

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, ray <>
    wrote:

    > >> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
    > >> > days.
    > >>
    > >> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!

    > >
    > > how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
    > > purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide
    > > within a week or two.

    >
    > Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to
    > use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.


    i doubt most do, but assuming they did take such a class, they'd still
    have 2-3 weeks left in which to evaluate it. usually, people just play
    with it, trying various tutorials found on the 'net.
     
    nospam, Dec 27, 2008
    #62
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  3. Neil Jones

    ray Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:50:56 -0800, John Navas wrote:

    > On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray <> wrote in
    > <>:
    >
    >>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <>, ray <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
    >>>> > days.
    >>>>
    >>>> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!
    >>>
    >>> how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
    >>> purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can
    >>> decide within a week or two.

    >>
    >>Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how
    >>to use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.

    >
    > Really? What's reasonable to you? 30 months? ;)


    I expect that adobe would have better luck with a 90 day period. It's all
    really about trying to get the potential buyer 'hooked'. Yes - 90 days
    would seem quite reasonable.
     
    ray, Dec 27, 2008
    #63
  4. Neil Jones

    ray Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:49:25 -0800, John Navas wrote:

    > On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:08 GMT, ray <> wrote in
    > <>:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>>>> there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
    >>>>> days.
    >>>>
    >>>>Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!
    >>>
    >>> Certainly if you want to steal it. ;)

    >>
    >>I have no plans to steal anything.

    >
    > Then it's not a "major restriction" now is it.
    >
    >>I use Open Source software almost
    >>exclusively - I'm quite happy with GIMP and ufraw - do everything I
    >>need; at least for now.

    >
    > Good for you, I use Photoshop. Unlike you, I find GIMP too painful.


    I might even be willing to evaluate photoshop and all it's offshoots.
    I'll consider that when they release Linux version. In the meantime, from
    what I've seen, it seems to me that GIMP is more intuitive anyway.
     
    ray, Dec 27, 2008
    #64
  5. Neil Jones

    tony cooper Guest

    On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>, ray <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
    >>> > days.
    >>>
    >>> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!

    >>
    >> how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
    >> purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide
    >> within a week or two.

    >
    >Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to
    >use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.


    I don't know where you get that idea. Certainly, some user have taken
    a class, but it's far from "most". Even the people who have taken a
    class are usually people who have worked with Photoshop for a period
    of time and signed up for a class to improve their skills.

    Not only have most people not taken a class, but it's not that easy to
    find a Photoshop class. Some universities have undergraduate courses
    in graphic design, but they aren't for beginning Photoshop users.
    Some community colleges have non-credit courses, but are usually so
    general that they are not worthwhile to take.

    I attended a half-day "class" put on by Adobe at one of the Adobe
    traveling roadshows, but it was nothing more than a presentation of
    the newest version that highlighted the new features. It was not
    hands-on. It wasn't worth the time for me.

    The average non-professional who uses the full Photoshop is
    self-taught from books or online tutorials. The average
    non-professional is employed full-time and doesn't have the time
    available to take a university course if one was offered.

    A person interested in using Photoshop who downloads the trial version
    and works through some of the on-line tutorials, or follows a book
    with an enclosed CD of examples, will gradually pick up the basic
    skills. How proficient that person becomes will depend on how much
    time he spends on tutorials or completing projects from books.

    If you follow the Adobe forums you'll find that most new users are
    learning the basics by this method.

    I have been using full Photoshop for six years, and except for that
    rather disappointing half-day, I've never taken a class. I'm no pro,
    but I'm rather advanced in the use of Photoshop.

    I don't know why you would make a statement about "most" users when
    you have no idea what "most" users do. I've followed the Photoshop
    newsgroups and forums for six years, and I think I have a good idea of
    what "most" do.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Dec 27, 2008
    #65
  6. Neil Jones

    Matt Ion Guest

    John Navas wrote:
    > On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:41:45 -0800, Matt Ion <> wrote
    > in <gj198l$cbq$>:
    >
    >> John Navas wrote:
    >>
    >>>>>> ... Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in
    >>>>>> the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following
    >>>>>> in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the
    >>>>>> capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.
    >>>>> The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP
    >>>>> interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is
    >>>>> quite powerful and free, I'll think you'll find the interface in
    >>>>> Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30.
    >>>>> (See link in my earlier post.)
    >>>> Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least
    >>>> compared to Paintshop Pro.
    >>> I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?

    >> I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem,
    >> the interface and features didn't appeal to me as PSP's did.

    >
    > Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.


    And this is reason I should change what I'm already comfortable and
    happy with?

    PSP has changed much over the years. As has GIMP. As has Windows,
    MacOS, *nix, and computer hardware in general. I see no point in
    changing just for the sake of changing.
     
    Matt Ion, Dec 27, 2008
    #66
  7. Neil Jones

    Matt Ion Guest

    The Real Bev wrote:
    > John Navas wrote:
    >
    >> Matt Ion <> wrote
    >>
    >>> John Navas wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?
    >>>
    >>> I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same
    >>> problem, the interface and features didn't appeal to me as PSP's did.

    >>
    >> Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

    >
    > Has anybody tried Picasa recently? Unless you want to do something
    > elaborate, it works really nicely. Newest improvement -- a clone-like
    > tool which is REALLY easy. The easy red-eye correction has been in
    > there for a long time.
    >
    > The price is right, and the on-line albums aren't all that bad either..


    Probably 99% of my photo work is done in Picasa. I love some of the
    additions made to V3. There's still some things I'd like to see, but
    it's improving a lot, and it's quick and easy for most of what I really
    need to do. I especially like the third-party plugin for easy upload to
    my Facebook account.
     
    Matt Ion, Dec 27, 2008
    #67
  8. Neil Jones

    tony cooper Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:12:51 -0800, Matt Ion <>
    wrote:

    >John Navas wrote:
    >> On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:41:45 -0800, Matt Ion <> wrote
    >> in <gj198l$cbq$>:
    >>
    >>> John Navas wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>>>> ... Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in
    >>>>>>> the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following
    >>>>>>> in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the
    >>>>>>> capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.
    >>>>>> The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP
    >>>>>> interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is
    >>>>>> quite powerful and free, I'll think you'll find the interface in
    >>>>>> Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30.
    >>>>>> (See link in my earlier post.)
    >>>>> Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least
    >>>>> compared to Paintshop Pro.
    >>>> I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?
    >>> I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem,
    >>> the interface and features didn't appeal to me as PSP's did.

    >>
    >> Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

    >
    >And this is reason I should change what I'm already comfortable and
    >happy with?


    I don't see where it was suggested that you change anything. You made
    the statement that Photoshop's interface is rather unintuitive. You
    added that the interface and feature don't appeal to you. (If I've
    read the attributions correctly)

    John brought up the fact that there are newer versions available, and
    implied in that comment is that the newer versions may offer an
    interface that is more to your liking. That's not a suggestion to
    change. That's simply a point to consider.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Dec 27, 2008
    #68
  9. Neil Jones

    Shawn Hirn Guest

    In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
    Neil Jones <> wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For
    > the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with
    > touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest
    > are saved.
    >
    > I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears
    > that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area.
    > To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost.
    > They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop
    > version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance
    > photos? What would be the price range?
    >
    > Thank you in advance for any help.


    I am a long-time Photoshop user and for amateur's, I strongly recommend
    Photoshop Elements. Everything you need to do is available in Photoshop
    Elements at a fraction of the price of the full Photoshop. You can be
    PSE anywhere you can buy Photoshop.

    By the way, there's a very active Photoshop newsgroup, which I think is
    called comp.graphics.apps.photoshop or something along those lines.
    There are also online discussion groups on Photoshop on Adobe's web
    site. All of those forums are resources you should check out.
     
    Shawn Hirn, Dec 27, 2008
    #69
  10. Neil Jones

    Ragnar Guest

    "Benny" <no spam > wrote in message
    news:OYT4l.4504$...
    >
    >>
    >> I would strongly suggest that you check out this page:
    >>
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_raster_graphics_editors
    >>
    >> It lists most all of the better-known graphic editors. Many of them are
    >> freeware
    >> and would do more than you will ever need.
    >>
    >> For someone in your position, anything by Adobe is overkill and a waste
    >> of money
    >> and time. I personally never use Adobe anything, as there are much better
    >> editors out there. A few that would be more than you will ever need are
    >> Paint
    >> Shop Pro (v9.01 is more than you will need), Zoner Photo Studio,
    >> PhotoBrush,
    >> IrfanView, PhotoImpact, Serif PhotoPlus, FastStone, and Gimp. Just
    >> because
    >> others say to use Adobe doesn't mean it's the best. Adobe has been
    >> outclassed by
    >> many many other editors many years ago. The "pros" just are so used to
    >> using
    >> outdated Adobe software with last-century features and capabilities that
    >> they
    >> don't know any better. Stuck in a rut. There is much better software out
    >> there
    >> now, going on 8 years. You're in a position to learn from the beginning,
    >> finding
    >> even better software that the trolls and "pros" are unwilling or
    >> incapable of
    >> learning anew.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I'm very open to using other graphics software instead of Adobe Photoshop
    > CS or Elements.
    > Can you please give some examples of what your suggested packages are
    > capable of that are lacking in Adobe products.
    > regards
    > Benny
    >
    >
    >
     
    Ragnar, Dec 27, 2008
    #70
  11. Neil Jones

    ray Guest

    OK, so let's say 'many' rather than 'most'. The point I was attempting to
    make is that unless you spend most of your day every day in front of the
    computer playing with the software, 30 days is likely to be enough to get
    a very general introduction - certainly not to master anything or get a
    real feel for what it will do. I have a life aside from photography. My
    time would be limited to a few hours here and there. I find 30 days to be
    quite a short evaluation period. But since I'm not likely to evaluate
    adobe products until the Linux version comes out, I guess my opinion does
    not count.
     
    ray, Dec 27, 2008
    #71
  12. Neil Jones

    KatWoman Guest

    "John Navas" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:57:23 -0500, tony cooper
    > <> wrote in
    > <>:
    >
    >>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:07:26 -0500, Dave Cohen <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>My local library has some stuff on both PS and Elements. Not sure what
    >>>versions are covered. I got a $50 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble so
    >>>I'll see what they carry.

    >>
    >>If you purchase Elements 5.0, 6.0, or 7.0, and all your library
    >>carries are books on 4.0 or any previous version to what you purchase,
    >>it won't make a great deal of difference to you. The basic functions
    >>have not changed. A book on 4.0 will be useful in learning how to use
    >>6.0. It won't cover some added features, but you'll be starting out
    >>with the basics. Some of the new features are pretty
    >>self-explanatory. Just try them and see what they do.

    >
    > I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
    > features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
    > to see just what to do.



    Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques

    I highly recommend the Adobe website tutorials and Russell Brown (if you can
    get by his weird "sense of humor")
    always top notch techniques
    and great ideas

    If the vids do not play from the page
    right click and choose save target as
    let them download to your comp and watch later


    > Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
    > John


    same to you all
    happy whatever you celebrate
     
    KatWoman, Dec 27, 2008
    #72
  13. Neil Jones

    KatWoman Guest

    "ray" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>, ray <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
    >>> > days.
    >>>
    >>> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!

    >>
    >> how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
    >> purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide
    >> within a week or two.

    >
    > Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to
    > use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.


    If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed on
    the comps in the room

    no purchase other than course money is required
    also qualifies you to buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical
    program of PS at educational prices

    wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS
    users group and feel the need to make put downs?

    like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
     
    KatWoman, Dec 27, 2008
    #73
  14. Neil Jones

    KatWoman Guest

    "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <>, ray <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
    >>>> > days.
    >>>>
    >>>> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!
    >>>
    >>> how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
    >>> purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide
    >>> within a week or two.

    >>
    >>Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to
    >>use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.

    >
    > I don't know where you get that idea. Certainly, some user have taken
    > a class, but it's far from "most". Even the people who have taken a
    > class are usually people who have worked with Photoshop for a period
    > of time and signed up for a class to improve their skills.
    >
    > Not only have most people not taken a class, but it's not that easy to
    > find a Photoshop class. Some universities have undergraduate courses
    > in graphic design, but they aren't for beginning Photoshop users.
    > Some community colleges have non-credit courses, but are usually so
    > general that they are not worthwhile to take.
    >
    > I attended a half-day "class" put on by Adobe at one of the Adobe
    > traveling roadshows, but it was nothing more than a presentation of
    > the newest version that highlighted the new features. It was not
    > hands-on. It wasn't worth the time for me.
    >
    > The average non-professional who uses the full Photoshop is
    > self-taught from books or online tutorials. The average
    > non-professional is employed full-time and doesn't have the time
    > available to take a university course if one was offered.
    >
    > A person interested in using Photoshop who downloads the trial version
    > and works through some of the on-line tutorials, or follows a book
    > with an enclosed CD of examples, will gradually pick up the basic
    > skills. How proficient that person becomes will depend on how much
    > time he spends on tutorials or completing projects from books.
    >
    > If you follow the Adobe forums you'll find that most new users are
    > learning the basics by this method.
    >
    > I have been using full Photoshop for six years, and except for that
    > rather disappointing half-day, I've never taken a class. I'm no pro,
    > but I'm rather advanced in the use of Photoshop.
    >
    > I don't know why you would make a statement about "most" users when
    > you have no idea what "most" users do. I've followed the Photoshop
    > newsgroups and forums for six years, and I think I have a good idea of
    > what "most" do.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida


    have to agree tony
    the "courses" are mostly sales pitches you pay for
    and all about the upgrades

    never took any courses just learned bit by bit since version 4.0
    and learned more as I went along
    and I still learn new things and adapt to changes in the program as it
    upgrades to new versions

    I was invited to teach as a guest lecturer at a fashion college
    it seems the regular professor was a little clueless himself
    just used the syllabus book
    learned his stuff the night before and then taught it the next day!!!
    his background is web design and although proficient at that when it came to
    retouching and creating images photography techniques and enhancing etc he
    was a little out his box
    hence my invite

    I would be pissed if I paid for a course with a teacher like that
    I can read a book myself

    he gets $35 US dollars an hour for that!~!!
     
    KatWoman, Dec 27, 2008
    #74
  15. Neil Jones

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, ray <>
    wrote:

    > OK, so let's say 'many' rather than 'most'. The point I was attempting to
    > make is that unless you spend most of your day every day in front of the
    > computer playing with the software, 30 days is likely to be enough to get
    > a very general introduction - certainly not to master anything or get a
    > real feel for what it will do.


    that's all it's supposed to do - give you an introduction so that you
    can decide whether to choose it over another product.

    > I have a life aside from photography. My
    > time would be limited to a few hours here and there. I find 30 days to be
    > quite a short evaluation period.


    30 days is more than enough to get an idea whether or not to purchase
    the product.

    if you only spend a couple hours here and there, then the full suite is
    clearly not for you (it's targeted at pros who make their living with
    it). a better choice would be photoshop elements. it's just $100,
    often found for less and even free when it's bundled with hardware.

    in other words, if you haven't decided in 30 days for something that
    costs as little as $30-50 or so, you probably don't want it all that
    much. extending the trial period to 90 days is not likely to result in
    changing your mind.

    > But since I'm not likely to evaluate
    > adobe products until the Linux version comes out, I guess my opinion does
    > not count.


    the likelihood of a linux version of adobe creative suite is for all
    intents, zero. in fact, they actually had a bsd version of photoshop
    in the early 90s and it didn't sell.
     
    nospam, Dec 27, 2008
    #75
  16. Neil Jones

    ray Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:08 -0500, KatWoman wrote:

    > "ray" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <>, ray <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
    >>>> > days.
    >>>>
    >>>> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!
    >>>
    >>> how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
    >>> purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can
    >>> decide within a week or two.

    >>
    >> Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how
    >> to use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.

    >
    > If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed
    > on the comps in the room
    >
    > no purchase other than course money is required also qualifies you to
    > buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical program of PS at
    > educational prices
    >
    > wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS
    > users group and feel the need to make put downs?
    >
    > like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris


    Excuse me? rec.photo.digital is NOT a "PS users group". And I'm not
    putting anything down. Simply suggesting that there are other things
    worth trying that won't cost an arm and a leg and will probably do all
    most folks need.
     
    ray, Dec 27, 2008
    #76
  17. KatWoman schrieb:
    >
    > If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed on
    > the comps in the room
    >
    > no purchase other than course money is required
    > also qualifies you to buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical
    > program of PS at educational prices
    >

    nice to know...

    > wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS
    > users group and feel the need to make put downs?
    >

    This might be, because this post is crossposted in 4 different groups
    (look at the headers) and not every of this groups is dedicated to
    photoshop. But this is only my own clueless assumption.


    > like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
    >

    did someone diss photoshop? I've read the thread but I did not see
    someone really saying something agains PS. Only people telling, that It
    does not have to be photoshop since there are alternatives.

    And just to finish this: Just because a software is used by the biggest
    part of the audience it does not always mean that it is the best
    software for everyone and anything.

    For me personally: I can't (don't want to) afford PS. So instead of
    using a pirated copy I'm just using Gimp. Maybe also because I'm using
    linux :)

    kruemi

    --
    Dimage A2, Agfa isolette
    http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
    And a cool timekiller: http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708
     
    Marco Tedaldi, Dec 27, 2008
    #77
  18. Neil Jones

    ray Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:39:22 -0800, John Navas wrote:

    > On 27 Dec 2008 20:26:41 GMT, ray <> wrote in
    > <>:
    >
    >>On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:08 -0500, KatWoman wrote:

    >
    >>> wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in
    >>> PS users group and feel the need to make put downs?
    >>>
    >>> like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris

    >>
    >>Excuse me? rec.photo.digital is NOT a "PS users group". ...

    >
    > This is being cross-posted to:
    > * adobe.photoshop.windows
    > * comp.graphics.apps.photoshop


    Both of which I don't read - yet I'm chastised for posting a reply in
    rec.photo.digital. Well, at least I can see where you folks are coming
    from.
     
    ray, Dec 27, 2008
    #78
  19. BillGarrens schrieb:
    > On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:31 -0800, John Navas <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens <>
    >> wrote in <>:
    >>
    >>> Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. ...

    >> Most professionals would disagree with you.

    >
    > You would be correct if you say "some professionals would disagree with you."
    > Otherwise I would be just as correct by saying that "most professionals agree
    > with me." The ones that I know would agree with me.


    Also known as "anecdotical evidence". Consequently I dare say the earth
    is flat, smoking & drinking is good for your health and the stars are
    responsible for our destiny.

    > In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to
    > "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none
    > the wiser.


    So it is you who is qualified what is judge what an intelligent choice
    and what is not? Now fancy that!

    > Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their
    > business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original
    > start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for
    > the best software available.


    If you really think there'd be a "best" solution the reason for this may
    have less to do with there actually is a "best" solution but rather that
    your personal horizon does not reach much farther than the tip of your nose.

    Personally I am sure mentioned projection not to be overly protruding,
    Juergen
     
    Juergen Heinzl, Dec 28, 2008
    #79
  20. Neil Jones

    CJ Guest

    BillGarrens wrote:

    > On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:31 -0800, John Navas
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens
    > > <> wrote in
    > > <>:
    > >
    > > > Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. ...

    > >
    > > Most professionals would disagree with you.

    >
    > You would be correct if you say "some professionals would disagree
    > with you." Otherwise I would be just as correct by saying that "most
    > professionals agree with me." The ones that I know would agree with
    > me.
    >
    > In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional"
    > equate to "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to
    > use long ago, none the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the
    > best tax write-off for their business office and nothing more. That
    > being a large reason for its original start. Hardly a reason to
    > advise the use of it today if someone is looking for the best
    > software available.


    Ahh... The ol' PhotoLine32 troll returns. I wondered when you would
    surface in this thread.

    --

    Cliff
     
    CJ, Dec 28, 2008
    #80
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