Photojournalists: HDV frame grabs

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ben Miller, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. Ben Miller

    Ben Miller Guest

    Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?

    It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):

    http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774

    I don't buy this hyperbole:

    "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."

    But I think it is certainly worth discussion...
    Ben Miller, Jun 21, 2007
    #1
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  2. Ben Miller

    Paul Furman Guest

    Ben Miller wrote:

    > Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    > the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    >
    > It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    > Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    >
    > http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    >
    > I don't buy this hyperbole:
    >
    > "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."
    >
    > But I think it is certainly worth discussion...
    >


    1920 x 1080 is 6 inches wide at 300dpi... sounds pretty useable.

    --
    Paul Furman Photography
    http://www.edgehill.net/1
    Bay Natives Nursery
    http://www.baynatives.com
    Paul Furman, Jun 21, 2007
    #2
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  3. Ben Miller

    Matt Ion Guest

    Paul Furman wrote:
    > Ben Miller wrote:
    >
    >> Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    >> the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    >>
    >> It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    >> Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    >>
    >> http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    >>
    >> I don't buy this hyperbole:
    >>
    >> "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."
    >>
    >> But I think it is certainly worth discussion...
    >>

    >
    > 1920 x 1080 is 6 inches wide at 300dpi... sounds pretty useable.


    Unless you also crank up the frame rate or at least the shutter speed,
    this method isn't much good for scenes with even moderate action or
    movement (unless you like motion blur).
    Matt Ion, Jun 21, 2007
    #3
  4. Ben Miller

    Scott W Guest

    Re: Photojournalists: HDV frame grabs

    On Jun 21, 9:32 am, Matt Ion <> wrote:
    > Paul Furman wrote:
    > > Ben Miller wrote:

    >
    > >> Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    > >> the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?

    >
    > >> It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    > >> Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):

    >
    > >>http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774

    >
    > >> I don't buy this hyperbole:

    >
    > >> "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."

    >
    > >> But I think it is certainly worth discussion...

    >
    > > 1920 x 1080 is 6 inches wide at 300dpi... sounds pretty useable.

    >
    > Unless you also crank up the frame rate or at least the shutter speed,
    > this method isn't much good for scenes with even moderate action or
    > movement (unless you like motion blur).-


    If there is enough light the shutter speed is far faster then what the
    frame
    rate would dictate.

    Scott
    Scott W, Jun 21, 2007
    #4
  5. Ben Miller

    Scott W Guest

    Re: Photojournalists: HDV frame grabs

    On Jun 21, 7:32 am, Ben Miller <> wrote:
    > Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    > the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    >
    > It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    > Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    >
    > http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    >
    > I don't buy this hyperbole:
    >
    > "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."
    >
    > But I think it is certainly worth discussion...

    I don't think it is going to be the death of 35mm stills in the
    newsroom, but it might have a
    large impact down the road some.

    But it seems to me that it would be somewhat limited, it might be fine
    for small photos in a newspaper but for full page photos in a magazine
    I doubt that is has the needed resolution.

    Scott
    Scott W, Jun 21, 2007
    #5
  6. Ben Miller

    Matt Ion Guest

    Re: Photojournalists: HDV frame grabs

    Scott W wrote:
    > On Jun 21, 9:32 am, Matt Ion <> wrote:
    >> Paul Furman wrote:
    >>> Ben Miller wrote:
    >>>> Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    >>>> the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    >>>> It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    >>>> Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    >>>> http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    >>>> I don't buy this hyperbole:
    >>>> "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."
    >>>> But I think it is certainly worth discussion...
    >>> 1920 x 1080 is 6 inches wide at 300dpi... sounds pretty useable.

    >> Unless you also crank up the frame rate or at least the shutter speed,
    >> this method isn't much good for scenes with even moderate action or
    >> movement (unless you like motion blur).-

    >
    > If there is enough light the shutter speed is far faster then what the
    > frame rate would dictate.


    High shutter speeds on low-framerate video create a 'stuttering' effect,
    though. Not a look that journalistic video really goes for, especially
    not sports video.
    Matt Ion, Jun 21, 2007
    #6
  7. Ben Miller

    Scott W Guest

    Re: Photojournalists: HDV frame grabs

    On Jun 21, 10:51 am, Matt Ion <> wrote:
    > Scott W wrote:
    > > On Jun 21, 9:32 am, Matt Ion <> wrote:
    > >> Paul Furman wrote:
    > >>> Ben Miller wrote:
    > >>>> Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    > >>>> the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    > >>>> It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    > >>>> Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    > >>>>http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    > >>>> I don't buy this hyperbole:
    > >>>> "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."
    > >>>> But I think it is certainly worth discussion...
    > >>> 1920 x 1080 is 6 inches wide at 300dpi... sounds pretty useable.
    > >> Unless you also crank up the frame rate or at least the shutter speed,
    > >> this method isn't much good for scenes with even moderate action or
    > >> movement (unless you like motion blur).-

    >
    > > If there is enough light the shutter speed is far faster then what the
    > > frame rate would dictate.

    >
    > High shutter speeds on low-framerate video create a 'stuttering' effect,
    > though. Not a look that journalistic video really goes for, especially
    > not sports video.


    If you knew you were going to mainly be going after frame grabs then
    it would make sense.
    And if you really wanted the motion blur it could probably be added to
    the video after the capture with digital processing.

    Scott
    Scott W, Jun 21, 2007
    #7
  8. In article <>,
    Ben Miller <> wrote:
    >Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    >the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?


    It depends on the quality (and I'm not referring to the technical quality
    of the images) you want.

    Still picture photography is very different from movies. What makes sense
    in one world doesn't work in the other and vice versa.

    So essentially the photographer will have work twice as hard: one time
    for the stills, and once more for the movies.


    --
    That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
    could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
    by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
    -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
    Philip Homburg, Jun 22, 2007
    #8
  9. ? "Ben Miller" <> ?????? ??? ??????
    news:...
    > Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    > the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    >
    > It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    > Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    >
    > http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    >
    > I don't buy this hyperbole:
    >
    > "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."
    >
    > But I think it is certainly worth discussion...
    >

    The photos are undoubtely excellent, very nice texture and colours, but why
    use 35 mm anyway when there are so nice digital still cameras?Both my
    camcorder (Sony DCR HC-32 E sd mini dv) and still camera are so small that I
    can take both;-)While it's impossible to *use* both at the same time, using
    them separately makes sense.I'm of course far off being a reporter,I'm
    mainly a snapshot photographer, but anyway.....




    --
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
    major in electrical engineering
    mechanized infantry reservist
    dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios, Jun 22, 2007
    #9
  10. Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
    > ? "Ben Miller" <> ?????? ??? ??????
    > news:...
    >> Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    >> the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    >>
    >> It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    >> Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    >>
    >> http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    >>
    >> I don't buy this hyperbole:
    >>
    >> "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."
    >>
    >> But I think it is certainly worth discussion...
    >>

    > The photos are undoubtely excellent, very nice texture and colours, but why
    > use 35 mm anyway when there are so nice digital still cameras?Both my
    > camcorder (Sony DCR HC-32 E sd mini dv) and still camera are so small that I
    > can take both;-)While it's impossible to *use* both at the same time, using
    > them separately makes sense.I'm of course far off being a reporter,I'm
    > mainly a snapshot photographer, but anyway.....
    >


    I suspect where this'll be used is in some large news orgs. that have
    both print and/or web plus broadcast operations. One interviewer, one
    camera man. With an HD recorder, they can grab decent head shots or
    scene setters off the live or recorded feed, and save the cost of a
    second photog.

    There are many times when this wouldn't work.

    --
    john mcwilliams
    John McWilliams, Jun 22, 2007
    #10
  11. Ben Miller

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:51:43 +0200, (Philip Homburg) wrote:
    : In article <>,
    : Ben Miller <> wrote:
    : >Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    : >the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    :
    : It depends on the quality (and I'm not referring to the technical quality
    : of the images) you want.
    :
    : Still picture photography is very different from movies. What makes sense
    : in one world doesn't work in the other and vice versa.
    :
    : So essentially the photographer will have work twice as hard: one time
    : for the stills, and once more for the movies.

    That shouldn't be a problem. In the present-day USA there's a widespread
    tradition of making Person A work twice as hard in order to make Person B
    expendable.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Jun 23, 2007
    #11
  12. ? "John McWilliams" <> ?????? ??? ??????
    news:eek:...
    > Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
    > > ? "Ben Miller" <> ?????? ??? ??????
    > > news:...
    > >> Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    > >> the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    > >>
    > >> It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    > >> Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    > >>
    > >> http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    > >>
    > >> I don't buy this hyperbole:
    > >>
    > >> "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."
    > >>
    > >> But I think it is certainly worth discussion...
    > >>

    > > The photos are undoubtely excellent, very nice texture and colours, but

    why
    > > use 35 mm anyway when there are so nice digital still cameras?Both my
    > > camcorder (Sony DCR HC-32 E sd mini dv) and still camera are so small

    that I
    > > can take both;-)While it's impossible to *use* both at the same time,

    using
    > > them separately makes sense.I'm of course far off being a reporter,I'm
    > > mainly a snapshot photographer, but anyway.....
    > >

    >
    > I suspect where this'll be used is in some large news orgs. that have
    > both print and/or web plus broadcast operations. One interviewer, one
    > camera man. With an HD recorder, they can grab decent head shots or
    > scene setters off the live or recorded feed, and save the cost of a
    > second photog.
    >
    > There are many times when this wouldn't work.
    >
    > --

    Yeah, right, almost two birds with a stone....




    --
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
    major in electrical engineering
    mechanized infantry reservist
    dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios, Jun 23, 2007
    #12
  13. Ben Miller

    Alan Browne Guest

    Ben Miller wrote:
    > Looking for opinions on HDV frame grabs in photojournalism. Is this
    > the death of 35mm stills in the "newsroom"?
    >
    > It is per this article by David Leeson, Dallas Morning News Executive
    > Producer - Video and New Media (consider the source, I know, I know):
    >
    > http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1774
    >
    > I don't buy this hyperbole:
    >
    > "This is our chance to rise up and lead the world."


    Article writers occasionally "stand up" with contrarian views for
    notoriety ... and in the off chance that they end up being right they
    reach "sage" status.

    ENG video certainly does produce high quality still imagery, esp if shot
    from a tripod or other solid support. No, not as good as a 4 Mpix DSLR,
    but more than good enough for news on the web, tv and smallish prints in
    magazines and news papers.

    As Mr. Kalashnikov famously noted "Perfection is the enemy of good enough."

    In the article above there is a photo of mediocre quality but in many
    cases it is "enough" and one could even say that its "TV like" quality
    lends a certain real time ENG touch to it. For current affairs that's
    fine; for Sports Illustrated, it would not be anywhere near adequate.
    (and no, I'm not solely referring to the swimsuit issue).

    But we happy folks on these NG's really shouldn't give a crap about what
    PJ's use for PJ work. If it's sufficient quality for the photo editors
    and it saves money, time or both, then it is a correct business decision.

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
    Alan Browne, Jun 23, 2007
    #13
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