Photography rates

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Drifter, Nov 9, 2003.

  1. Drifter

    Drifter Guest

    The local community college has asked me if I would be willing to
    photograph events for them and they are willing to pay for my time.

    Up until now photography has been strictly hobby so I really don't
    know what a reasonable rate range might be.

    It's a fully digital operation and all I'm doing is the photography,
    they will handle any printing etc.

    Thanks
    Drifter
     
    Drifter, Nov 9, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Drifter

    Whatevah Guest

    set an hourly rate that you think is appropriate, and charge them with how
    long you think you'll be there, and how long you'll be editing on your
    computer.

    if you're not going to be working hard, an hourly rate of $50 would be kinda
    stupid. But, if you're getting 5 good shots every minute, and keep it up
    for 2 hours.... :)

    good luck

    --
    Jerry
    www.whatevah.com / jerry at whatevah dot com
    (spambait )

    "Drifter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The local community college has asked me if I would be willing to
    > photograph events for them and they are willing to pay for my time.
    >
    > Up until now photography has been strictly hobby so I really don't
    > know what a reasonable rate range might be.
    >
    > It's a fully digital operation and all I'm doing is the photography,
    > they will handle any printing etc.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Drifter
     
    Whatevah, Nov 9, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Drifter

    RustY© Guest

    "Drifter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Up until now photography has been strictly hobby so I really don't
    > know what a reasonable rate range might be.



    Phone your local photographer and ask how much he would charge to do a
    similar job - that's your starting point.
    --
    For Welsh Military Flying visit .......
    www.groups.yahoo.com/group/V-A-S/
     
    RustY©, Nov 9, 2003
    #3
  4. Drifter

    George Kerby Guest

    On 11/9/03 3:12 PM, in article
    , "RustY©"
    <> wrote:

    > "Drifter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Up until now photography has been strictly hobby so I really don't
    >> know what a reasonable rate range might be.

    >
    >
    > Phone your local photographer and ask how much he would charge to do a
    > similar job - that's your starting point.

    Are you serious? Call a Pro and use his rates? That's a little brash for a
    person who is still "wet behind the ears" amateur as he admits. Did you not
    factor in the cost of the pro's equipment, studio rent, insurance,
    maintenance, etc. Not to mention years of acquired skill and knowledge.
    About 1/3 of what the local pro rates would probably be too much. What a
    poor answer...


    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
    <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
     
    George Kerby, Nov 9, 2003
    #4
  5. Drifter

    RustY© Guest

    "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    news:BBD414D5.24E2E%...
    > Are you serious?


    Deadly. As I said that's the starting point. You just need to work out
    from that how much to knock off to tempt them to hire you instead of the
    pro.
    --
    For Welsh Military Flying visit .......
    www.groups.yahoo.com/group/V-A-S/
     
    RustY©, Nov 9, 2003
    #5
  6. Drifter

    George Kerby Guest

    On 11/9/03 4:16 PM, in article
    , "RustY©"
    <> wrote:

    > "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    > news:BBD414D5.24E2E%...
    >> Are you serious?

    >
    > Deadly. As I said that's the starting point. You just need to work out
    > from that how much to knock off to tempt them to hire you instead of the
    > pro.

    And about 25% of that. So the previous poster's estimate ~$50.00 hr would be
    correct in major markets. Less in the boonies...


    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
    <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
     
    George Kerby, Nov 9, 2003
    #6
  7. Drifter

    WMAS 1960 Guest

    >Are you serious? Call a Pro and use his rates? That's a little brash for a
    >person who is still "wet behind the ears" amateur as he admits. Did you not
    >factor in the cost of the pro's equipment, studio rent, insurance,
    >maintenance, etc. Not to mention years of acquired skill and knowledge.
    >About 1/3 of what the local pro rates would probably be too much. What a
    >poor answer...


    I don't know if it is as poor of an answer as you would lead. Personally I
    would agree with you though, to the extent of calling a pro and asking what he
    would charge. I have never done that but I have heard that many others do, and
    it could be valuable, AS A STARTING POINT. But largely, it is irrelevent. As
    you state there are variables that are the real issue that might be different
    in your situation.

    However, just because one is an amateur, which from Websters is defined to mean
    2 : one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather
    than as a profession, that doesn't mean that a person is less experienced or
    poorly equipped than a professional. That also doesn't mean that one has to
    relegate oneself to a substandard wage for the same work or product that
    another earns, just because the other guy is doing it as a profession. For the
    most part you can charge what you require or what the market will bare.

    Right now, I am engaged in Photography more as a pastime or hobby than a
    profession. I hope to develop my work to a profession but that is more an
    issue of business organization and time to devote to it. Not one of experience
    or talent or ability. Nor is it one of equipment. I do similar work as is
    described. I do it for a local high school when I am taping sporting events
    for the coaches or other specific projects that the school might require. I
    use fairly expensive equipment to do my work and bring with me about 10 years
    of experience and education in Radio and Television Production. I also go out
    and photograph projects for individuals and businesses for such things as trade
    show exhibits, websites.... I have a computer and software, (Photoshop) a
    photo printer, 35mm SLR and Lenses, Film and Slide Scanner, NIKON DSLR w/Nikkor
    Glass, Flash, and all the same that many professonal photographers have. As
    for still photography I have far more experience than the video listed above.
    Going back to 1978. All totalled, I have accumulated over $10,000 worth of
    equipment, maybe even far upward, when you consider computers, cameras, video
    recorders, lenses, and so on. I do work out of my home so that is a savings
    that a larger professional might be paying. However, not all professional
    photographers work out of fancy store front studios. There are plenty that
    work out of their homes too. Then there is the market you are referring to.
    What one might charge in Chicago might not hold up well in rural Wisconsin or
    even in some smaller towns as little as 50 miles from Chicago even. Thus to
    say what you should charge here might not be appropriate for you wherever you
    are.

    Personally, my approach to what I have been charging is this. First I am
    lucky that the athletic department at the high school is very fair. I didn't
    have to think much about it. They set the rate and prefer to consider and pay
    me as an payroll employee and I agreed to that. It was actually a low to fair
    price for an independant contractor situation. However, as an employee, They
    pay me as a part time employee and pay me a rate, PER GAME. They pay portions
    of taxes, medicare, fica... and all. Being part time though there are no
    benefits or insurance... I have found that this actually may work well in this
    situation. First, I don't have to deal with the bookeeping and all. I just
    give them invoices every 15 days when there is something to bill. They send me
    a check. Also, being an employee, there is certain insurance issues while
    doing a game. A friend who does the same work had a camera fall off of the
    roof of the press box. The camera hit a fan on the arm and broke the guys
    wrist. Being an employee of the school and working on their behalf, it is my
    understanding that, he didn't have the liability. When working with electric
    cables and all anything that can simplify the hasstles of insurance etc. is
    worthwhile in the long run. As a note here, I try to keep my setups as simple
    as possible to avoid such hazzards. Also I don't have the worry of the tax
    implications of this job. That is all witheld. Since I am currently, taking
    time away from work for family needs, working this way keeps my experience up
    and keeps me contributing into SS and Medicare for my later years.

    Other work that I do is of the type where I produce tapes and sell copies. For
    that I consider what my expectation of sales will be. That comes more with
    experience where you begin to get a feel for how many tapes you will sell. I
    can only say that you need to just do it a little to see how the market, in
    your area, goes. Then I price the tapes to get my return that I need to make
    it worthwhile. Figure out the cost for the blank tapes and other materials for
    shipping packaging etc. Then tack on what you need to cover other expenses and
    for yourself. You should probably sit down and try and figure how many hours a
    week you expect to work and what you need to make per hour to support yourself.
    Then add on any extra expenses, materials, supplemental staff or equipment you
    might need to lease or rent and figure out how much you need to charge per hour
    to pay the bills and all. If you expect to sell 5 tapes, each tape will be
    more than if you expect to sell 10 tapes. You might even try and get
    committments for advance sales to get you going or see if someone will front
    the money for you to tape or photograph and discount back based on sales.
    Consider your market and see what people will tolerate. There is some basic
    economics here. Price less and you might sell more tapes, or photos, and make
    more profit than if you sell fewer higher priced tapes or pictures. In my area
    I find that people will spend $15 to $20 for a VHS without even thinking.
    Start charging more and they start thinking. The longer your buyer thinks the
    less likely they will ultimately buy. When I sell tapes like this I print up
    some order forms and put them out for the fans at a game or to distribute to
    parents. If they fill it out and give you a $20 that is better than if they
    take it home. Once they take it and put it in their pocket, it will go through
    the wash, get lost, dropped, forgotten about... A few might straggle in over
    time but no where near if you had the price where they didn't even think about
    it before giving you the money.

    So, basically, I hope you can see, figure out what your time and materials are
    worth and price yourself accordingly. Are they going to pay you as an
    employee? Or are you going to be an Independant Contractor and have to pay
    taxes as Self Employed. If the latter you will need more since you have to
    pay both portions of the taxes. In the other case they might pay you less up
    front but they are also paying a portion of your taxes and retirement.
    (SS/MEDICARE). Do you have to provide materials like film, paper,... (you
    said they were taking care of that) or do you have to provide materials. Is
    there travel involved? Your Car? Gas?...
     
    WMAS 1960, Nov 10, 2003
    #7
  8. Drifter

    Guest

    "RustY©" <> wrote:

    > Phone your local photographer and ask how much he would charge to do a
    > similar job - that's your starting point.


    No, that's _his_ starting point. _Your_ starting point may be quite
    different, for any number of reasons.
     
    , Nov 10, 2003
    #8
  9. Drifter

    Frank ess Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "RustY©" <> wrote:
    >
    > > Phone your local photographer and ask how much he would charge to do a
    > > similar job - that's your starting point.

    >
    > No, that's _his_ starting point. _Your_ starting point may be quite
    > different, for any number of reasons.


    Plenty of experience and expert knowledge at:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/editorialphoto/
     
    Frank ess, Nov 10, 2003
    #9
  10. Drifter

    JK Guest

    $50 an hour? That is too much for an amateurs time, especially if he
    doesn't have very expensive gear. I think $20-25 an hour would be
    more appropriate. Keep in mind that this is for a college, which
    probably doesn't have a huge budget for things like this. I wouldn't
    be surprised if they offered you $10 an hour.

    George Kerby wrote:

    > On 11/9/03 4:16 PM, in article
    > , "RustY©"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    > > news:BBD414D5.24E2E%...
    > >> Are you serious?

    > >
    > > Deadly. As I said that's the starting point. You just need to work out
    > > from that how much to knock off to tempt them to hire you instead of the
    > > pro.

    > And about 25% of that. So the previous poster's estimate ~$50.00 hr would be
    > correct in major markets. Less in the boonies...
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________________
    > Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
    > <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
    >
     
    JK, Nov 11, 2003
    #10
  11. Drifter

    George Kerby Guest

    Shit, they pay $100 an hour to flip burgers. Where do you live? Mississippi?

    > $50 an hour? That is too much for an amateurs time, especially if he
    > doesn't have very expensive gear. I think $20-25 an hour would be
    > more appropriate. Keep in mind that this is for a college, which
    > probably doesn't have a huge budget for things like this. I wouldn't
    > be surprised if they offered you $10 an hour.
    >
    > George Kerby wrote:
    >
    >> On 11/9/03 4:16 PM, in article
    >> , "RustY©"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:BBD414D5.24E2E%...
    >>>> Are you serious?
    >>>
    >>> Deadly. As I said that's the starting point. You just need to work out
    >>> from that how much to knock off to tempt them to hire you instead of the
    >>> pro.

    >> And about 25% of that. So the previous poster's estimate ~$50.00 hr would be
    >> correct in major markets. Less in the boonies...
    >>
    >> _____________________________________________________________________________
    >> __
    >> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
    >> http://www.uncensored-news.com
    >> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source
    >> <><><><><><><><>
    >>

    >



    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
    <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
     
    George Kerby, Nov 11, 2003
    #11
  12. Drifter

    WMAS 1960 Guest

    Not that I think that $50 an hour is an appropriate price, because I really
    don't know all the particulars. However, again, I would just say that the type
    of equipment or the fact that you are an amateur without a lot of experience
    should not, in itself, relegate you to second class wages. If you have a good
    eye, talent, an understanding of how to do the work and the equipment and
    ability to produce the same quality work, or at least exceptable quality for
    the person paying you that is all that is important.

    It is, largely, what the market will bear. Of course, there is the point that
    it is a college that might not have a big budget. Thus, if you want the work,
    or if they are going to give you a lot of projects, you might want to consider
    less than usual to have access to that work. I often take a little less when
    working with schools when there is expectation that there will be a steady flow
    of work. It also could greatly depend on the purpose for the photos. In
    academic environs there is often a surprising disproportionate investemnt into
    sports compared to other activities. Thus you could find that they might pay
    $100 an hour to have a football or basketball game taped or photographed. At
    the same time, that same university or college, for the same basic setup, time,
    compexity, equipement... and so on, might only pay $30 an hour, or even less,
    for photographing or taping a conference or speech, appearance by a public
    official or celebrity or theatrical performance. It largely might depend on
    the department that is doing the hiring. Do they have a lot of students that
    could do the same work for free or academic credits or is it something like
    coaching tapes for football or basketball that might require some experience
    with the game and a proven ability to follow action.

    Also, what is the purpose of the work, Coaching, editorial, advertising and
    promotion, fund raising, Alumni Newsletters... ? The university that I went
    to had a dapartment called News and Publication Services, or something like
    that. Their job, in addition to publishing special publications on campus, was
    to issue press releases out to local papers. I was shooting for academic
    credits for the weekly campus paper. I shot pictures a few times at press
    conferences on campus, G. Gordon Liddy, Larry Linville (Frank Burns M*A*S*H),
    Les Aspin, (Local legislator at the time). The News and Publications director,
    on a couple of those occasions, saw my pictures in the paper and asked if he
    could send them out with his press releases to local community publications.
    For that he didn't pay anything but was very concerned to issue a proper byline
    credit and all. He just needed standard B+W news photos. However, when
    putting together one of their flashy Alumni Newsletters with full color photos,
    posed portraits of faculty members, High Quality Glossy pages and all, they
    might be willing to spend a whole lot of money to make it look that much
    better. When your purpose is simply community outreach and PR it is one thing.
    When it is appealing to the alumni for donations and participation in campus
    events and activities and the whole Development and Alumni Giving needs of the
    college the budget might go way up.

    I will also add that there can even be a big difference within a department
    like the N&P example above, theater or sports. One event could warrant more
    spending than another. What they might pay for Football or Basketball might
    be different than what they would pay for Soccer or Lacrosse. Some colleges
    have big programs or huge interest, particularly Alumni interest, in one sport,
    say Basketball, but have little interest in another like Baseball and yet other
    events may go relatively unnoticed and warrant almost no money spent. Ticket
    sales, donations and attendance for one sport or event could justify paying
    more than another.

    I do recall the original writer here expressing his lack of experience with
    professional matters. I do not recall him saying that he doesn't have skill or
    telent. If the college confronted him and ask if he was interested than they
    might see soemthing there that they are willing to pay for. I would actually
    think the first step would be to talk to them and see what they have in mind
    and what they are offering. I also don't recall mention of what the nature
    of the work is. What is the subject, purpose etc. Like I have been saying,
    all of that does make a difference. If this is a first professional job and
    being done for extra income on the side, it might make sense as others are
    saying, to price down a little and consider the educational and practical
    experience that will be obtained. The confidence and exposure that can be
    obtained from doing. Sometimes doing work like this can lead to other work.
    People see you work product and your name under the pictures and then ask if
    you would like to do stuff for them. A byline has some good value. That all
    has value too and can help you find what your time is worth. Again though,
    consider how much time you are going to devote to this and what that time is
    worth to you. Or, more appropriately, what you need to earn for that time to
    make ends meet. Unless you are interested in doing some of this as charity to
    the college, don't short change yourself. Cover your expenses and all.
     
    WMAS 1960, Nov 11, 2003
    #12
  13. Drifter

    Joe Marcus Guest

    Drifter wrote:
    > The local community college has asked me if I would be willing to
    > photograph events for them and they are willing to pay for my time.
    >
    > Up until now photography has been strictly hobby so I really don't
    > know what a reasonable rate range might be.
    >
    > It's a fully digital operation and all I'm doing is the photography,
    > they will handle any printing etc.
    >



    Wow --

    I have got to weigh here in gang -- now I understand that this is not a
    professional group, and that as an amateur the excitement of seeing your
    name published in any way is some peoples idea of a form of payment. But
    let's see if I can educate you from a working pros stand point.

    Some have suggested that an hourly rate is the way to go and that $50
    per hour is a fair rate for the events that the college wants you to
    shoot. Some have even suggested phoning a local pro to ask them what
    they charge. I can tell you that I have gotten those calls and do not
    quote rates to those that will not hire me. Besides, as on writer said,
    I have invested countless years to my craft, and thousands of dollars to
    my equipment to be able to offer the best quality images to my clients.
    I have also spent hours at seminars and classes learning how to create a
    workflow for my work to deliver the final images to the client, as well
    as countless Photoshop seminars to do the same.

    So while I am sure you have some nice equipment, my question to you is
    this: Are you prepared, and do you have the experience to properly do
    the job, or is the college, as many do, trying to get images without
    paying the going rate. And there is no quicker way to commit
    professional suicide then to take on more then you or your equipment can
    handle. It is bad for you and bad for my profession.

    Which leads me to the going rate... You do not mention where you are,
    but that is not a really big factor as the rates for this kind of
    editorial, advertising, documentation work is basically the same for any
    organization of higher learning. I will happily tell you what I
    charge, and get at colleges and universities in my area. I charge a
    standard day rate of $800-1000 plus the cost of computer time, Photoshop
    work, burning cd's, etc. The practice of charging per hour is gone. No
    real working pros do that anymore. We charge, as others have indicated
    based upon the use of the image. We work only by contract and do not
    accept any work for hire agreements where we give up the rights to our
    images. (that is a whole other discussion) And as for charging just a
    by-line, yea it strokes our egos, but it doesn't put food on our tables.
    And charging less to a client with the hopes of future work is crazy.
    There are no guarantees that there will ever be extra work no matter
    what they tell you.

    So, if you are serious about your craft then charge what you are worth.
    If you do not have the experience to do the job well, do not dare
    under-cut those who have taken years to perfect their crafts. And like
    another suggested check out the following professional on-line
    communities. Read and listen.

    http://www.editorialphoto.com/
    http://www.photonews.net/cgi-bin/pagemage.pl?SHOWPAGE=index.html

    If you have other questions, please feel free to ask. Good day and
    happy shooting!

    jkm

    --
    Joe Marcus
    Marcus Photography
    1501 Spring Garden Street
    Easton, PA 18042-3143
    610-258-1407 - Phone & Fax
    610-393-0792 - Cellular

    http://www.marcusphotography.com

    Creating outstanding images for Festivals & Events. Location photography
    for advertising, promotion, fireworks companies, theatre and concert.
     
    Joe Marcus, Nov 11, 2003
    #13
  14. Drifter

    FOR7b Guest

    >
    > So, if you are serious about your craft then charge what you are worth.


    >If you do not have the experience to do the job well, do not dare
    >under-cut those who have taken years to perfect their crafts. And like
    >another suggested check out the following professional on-line
    >communities. Read and listen.


    Why not let him undercut whoever he wants? If the school is satisfied with the
    work and he is satisfied with the pay why should it bother anyone else? Why
    should he be looking out for the wages of other photographers? It is a free
    market and and if their work is better then it is their job to prove that, not
    the new guys.


     
    FOR7b, Nov 11, 2003
    #14
  15. Drifter

    Joe Marcus Guest

    FOR7b wrote:
    >> So, if you are serious about your craft then charge what you are worth.

    >
    >
    >>If you do not have the experience to do the job well, do not dare
    >>under-cut those who have taken years to perfect their crafts. And like
    >>another suggested check out the following professional on-line
    >>communities. Read and listen.

    >
    >
    > Why not let him undercut whoever he wants? If the school is satisfied with the
    > work and he is satisfied with the pay why should it bother anyone else? Why
    > should he be looking out for the wages of other photographers? It is a free
    > market and and if their work is better then it is their job to prove that, not
    > the new guys.
    >
    >
    >


    Because he is doing himself a dis-service by not charging fair market
    value and not getting paid what he is worth. If he is any good then he
    should be charging a rate commensurate with his quality. If not he
    should not be accepting a job he can not do properly. It certainly is a
    free market and I am constantly on my toes for competition, but I will
    not undercharge or accept bad contracts as it hurts my business. I have
    turned down many bad deals. It is part of a commitment to myself and my
    profession that I choose to make. Believe me, I am not hurting for
    clients or work. And what I end up with is quality clients who
    appreciate the work they get for the fair price they pay.

    --
    Joe Marcus
    Marcus Photography
    1501 Spring Garden Street
    Easton, PA 18042-3143
    610-258-1407 - Phone & Fax
    610-393-0792 - Cellular

    http://www.marcusphotography.com

    Creating outstanding images for Festivals & Events. Location photography
    for advertising, promotion, fireworks companies, theatre and concert.
     
    Joe Marcus, Nov 11, 2003
    #15
  16. Drifter

    Dave Brown Guest

    Drifter <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > The local community college has asked me if I would be willing to
    > photograph events for them and they are willing to pay for my time.
    >
    > Up until now photography has been strictly hobby so I really don't
    > know what a reasonable rate range might be.
    >
    > It's a fully digital operation and all I'm doing is the photography,
    > they will handle any printing etc.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Drifter


    Well, if you are just using the equipment you have, need no
    investment, have been doing this for jollies and now someone wants to
    pay you, I would probably want to get the opportunity to "be paid"
    versus insult a potential client. Flipping burgers is about $7 an
    hour, but obviously your skills are worth more than that (assuming
    they have seen your work in the past feel comfortable with your work).

    If it were my opportunity I would charge about double the "flip the
    burger" job pays per hour and charge for development + 100 margin. So
    your hours put in for photography and development (be it digital or
    otherwise), and then cost of materials *2.

    That would seem reasonable to anyone wanting to engage an amateur,
    IMHO.

    Best of luck,

    db
     
    Dave Brown, Nov 11, 2003
    #16
  17. Drifter

    FOR7b Guest

    >Because he is doing himself a dis-service by not charging fair market
    >value and not getting paid what he is worth. If he is any good then he
    >should be charging a rate commensurate with his quality.


    Agreed.


    > If not he
    >should not be accepting a job he can not do properly.



    That's the unknown variable in addition to the final fee for services renedered
    but it is quite likely that what a professional would consider acceptable as a
    job done "properly" is not the kind of work that is going to end up being
    performed. Still, it may be good enough for both parties involved.


    > It certainly is a
    >free market and I am constantly on my toes for competition, but I will
    >not undercharge or accept bad contracts as it hurts my business. I have
    >turned down many bad deals. It is part of a commitment to myself and my
    >profession that I choose to make. Believe me, I am not hurting for
    >clients or work. And what I end up with is quality clients who
    >appreciate the work they get for the fair price they pay.
    >



    That is great to see someone care so much about the level of craft in their
    profession and as it sounds you apparently have the skills to demand the fees
    you earn. The level of experience and knowledge you have is something he
    doesn't have yet and all he can do is to offer full disclosure of his abilities
    and if the school is still interested then they can agree to a fee mutually
    acceptable that will undoubtedly "under-cut" professional photographers in the
    area. That shouldn't deter him from taking on the job if he feels up to it.

    And again I agree if his skills are more than accpetable then he should be
    getting paid accordingly.


    >--
    >Joe Marcus
    >Marcus Photography
    >1501 Spring Garden Street
    >Easton, PA 18042-3143
    >610-258-1407 - Phone & Fax
    >610-393-0792 - Cellular



     
    FOR7b, Nov 11, 2003
    #17
  18. On 11/11/03 2:32 PM, in article
    , "FOR7b"
    <> wrote:

    >>
    >> So, if you are serious about your craft then charge what you are worth.

    >
    >> If you do not have the experience to do the job well, do not dare
    >> under-cut those who have taken years to perfect their crafts. And like
    >> another suggested check out the following professional on-line
    >> communities. Read and listen.

    >
    > Why not let him undercut whoever he wants? If the school is satisfied with the
    > work and he is satisfied with the pay why should it bother anyone else? Why
    > should he be looking out for the wages of other photographers? It is a free
    > market and and if their work is better then it is their job to prove that, not
    > the new guys.
    >
    >
    >

    Unfortunately, this very attitude is what is driving most pros out of
    business. Printing companies are getting kids out of school who have little
    or no real talent or study of the craft of photography. Because of the ease
    of digital, it doesn't necessarily have to be correct the first time like
    the product a pro would produce. For example, the kid can produce acceptable
    results with cross lighting, bad composition, goofy shadows, etc. This can
    be corrected in record time compared to a few years ago. Everything is
    "In-house" and costs/fees are slashed. We are experiencing the 'WalMart'ing
    of the profession.


    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
    <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
     
    cultural neanderthal, Nov 11, 2003
    #18
  19. Drifter

    Drifter Guest

    >Drifter <> wrote in message news:<>...
    >> The local community college has asked me if I would be willing to
    >> photograph events for them and they are willing to pay for my time.
    >>
    >> Up until now photography has been strictly hobby so I really don't
    >> know what a reasonable rate range might be.
    >>
    >> It's a fully digital operation and all I'm doing is the photography,
    >> they will handle any printing etc.
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >> Drifter

    >
    >Well, if you are just using the equipment you have, need no
    >investment, have been doing this for jollies and now someone wants to
    >pay you, I would probably want to get the opportunity to "be paid"
    >versus insult a potential client. Flipping burgers is about $7 an
    >hour, but obviously your skills are worth more than that (assuming
    >they have seen your work in the past feel comfortable with your work).
    >
    >If it were my opportunity I would charge about double the "flip the
    >burger" job pays per hour and charge for development + 100 margin. So
    >your hours put in for photography and development (be it digital or
    >otherwise), and then cost of materials *2.
    >
    >That would seem reasonable to anyone wanting to engage an amateur,
    >IMHO.
    >
    >Best of luck,
    >
    >db

    I'm the original poster here and I suppose I should weigh back in on a
    few issues that people are batting around.

    For those wondering, I'm using a Canon 10D and a mix of good quality
    Canon glass (though still saving for that wide angle "L" series
    <grin>).

    In terms of skill level I've been steadily working to improve for a
    number of years and I feel that I'm progressing nicely. I have a goal
    in my head that I'm working towards and in the meanwhile I seem to
    produce output that others enjoy.

    I've sold the occasional picture to local papers and even had a
    picture in the Washington Post once (though acceptable to a newspaper
    is a whole different animal quality-wise than what I'm looking for).

    The college representative approached me while I was taking pictures
    of a Halloween event at a local park and asked if I would share my
    photos of her students at work (they were running the event). I did
    and shortly thereafter came the current request for this weekend.

    At this point I've already told them I'll do it for $200 for the day
    plus they buy me lunch (the event is an outdoors rescue training
    class) They agreed so I guess I wasn't being too steep <grin>.

    Anyway I would like to thank everyone here for the input, it was all
    helpful in one way or another.

    Drifter
     
    Drifter, Nov 12, 2003
    #19
  20. Drifter

    Joe Marcus Guest

    > At this point I've already told them I'll do it for $200 for the day
    > plus they buy me lunch (the event is an outdoors rescue training
    > class) They agreed so I guess I wasn't being too steep <grin>.
    >


    Drifter --

    My point to you is this -- One of the reasons they agreed to your price
    is that you were most likely about $800 cheaper then any other
    photographer they have ever worked with. And if your skills are
    improving like you say they are you are not getting paid what you are
    worth, and you will never get paid what you are worth from this client
    no matter how good a job you do.

    So, enjoy shooting the event and the free lunch, but understand you
    have made it difficult for yourself to ever get what you or anyone in
    your area is worth. Lastly, I hope that the contract you signed does not
    include a work for hire agreement whereby you relinquish your rights to
    the images you create.

    Best of luck.


    --
    Joe Marcus
    Marcus Photography
    1501 Spring Garden Street
    Easton, PA 18042-3143
    610-258-1407 - Phone & Fax
    610-393-0792 - Cellular

    http://www.marcusphotography.com

    Creating outstanding images for Festivals & Events. Location photography
    for advertising, promotion, fireworks companies, theatre and concert.
     
    Joe Marcus, Nov 12, 2003
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    594
    Aaron Leonard
    Jan 25, 2005
  2. Replies:
    2
    Views:
    520
  3. Rick Kunkel
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,026
    DaZZa
    Feb 5, 2005
  4. Replies:
    6
    Views:
    937
    Hansang Bae
    Nov 25, 2005
  5. George Preddy

    Practical Photography rates Sigma highest

    George Preddy, Jul 3, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    18
    Views:
    559
Loading...

Share This Page