Photo Restoration?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by babalooixnay@hotmail.com, Feb 23, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I elected myself to digitize the family photos and I'm having a problem
    with portraits done in the late forties to mid-fifties. It was popular
    then to print on a textured paper which is showing through as patterns.
    Any direct light accentuates the problem so I took to using soft
    reflected light on to the originals but still with noticeable pattern
    showing through. I didn't want to soften the focus as many are group
    shots of wedding parties or similar shots with intricate detail.
    Question is can anyone point me toward a Photoshop technique for
    removing the pattern. A lot of the pattern comes through much like
    noise and sharpening of course makes it worse. I'm sure there's a
    technique for blurring in the noise on a layer and then selectively
    doing local sharpening afterward. Any suggestions?
    , Feb 23, 2006
    #1
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  2. I would try photographing it with a ring light.
    Gene

    wrote:

    > I elected myself to digitize the family photos and I'm having a problem
    > with portraits done in the late forties to mid-fifties. It was popular
    > then to print on a textured paper which is showing through as patterns.
    > Any direct light accentuates the problem so I took to using soft
    > reflected light on to the originals but still with noticeable pattern
    > showing through. I didn't want to soften the focus as many are group
    > shots of wedding parties or similar shots with intricate detail.
    > Question is can anyone point me toward a Photoshop technique for
    > removing the pattern. A lot of the pattern comes through much like
    > noise and sharpening of course makes it worse. I'm sure there's a
    > technique for blurring in the noise on a layer and then selectively
    > doing local sharpening afterward. Any suggestions?
    Gene F. Rhodes, Feb 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. Colin D Guest

    wrote:
    >
    > I elected myself to digitize the family photos and I'm having a problem
    > with portraits done in the late forties to mid-fifties. It was popular
    > then to print on a textured paper which is showing through as patterns.
    > Any direct light accentuates the problem so I took to using soft
    > reflected light on to the originals but still with noticeable pattern
    > showing through. I didn't want to soften the focus as many are group
    > shots of wedding parties or similar shots with intricate detail.
    > Question is can anyone point me toward a Photoshop technique for
    > removing the pattern. A lot of the pattern comes through much like
    > noise and sharpening of course makes it worse. I'm sure there's a
    > technique for blurring in the noise on a layer and then selectively
    > doing local sharpening afterward. Any suggestions?


    If you are using a scanner with a single lamp, the problem is the photo
    is lit from one side only, causing the texture to show up. If you can
    find or afford a higher-spec scannner that has dual lamps, like the
    Canon 9950F, the problem is greatly lessened.

    If you are using a camera, then two lamps on opposite sides at 45
    degrees to the photo should give you reasonable results.

    There is a problem I have run into when copying textured or
    stipple-surfaced papers, which is the image tones are 'modulated' by the
    stipple pattern. The image density in the 'valleys' of the texture is
    lighter than the 'peaks'. I don't know whether this is because the
    emulsion thickness is reduced in the valleys by the patterning, or
    whether the print developer doesn't get to the valleys as fast as to the
    peaks. Whatever, even after scanning with a dual-lamp scanner and
    eliminating the texture, there remains these myriad white dots in the
    grays and blacks that are damn near impossible to remove without
    excessive blurring of the image. In my b/w darkroom days, if I pulled a
    print early from the developer because the the print was a bit
    overexposed, this 'modulation' patterning was quite obvious, so I
    suspect it is a development problem.

    Good luck,

    Colin D.
    Colin D, Feb 23, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    Colin D wrote:
    >
    > There is a problem I have run into when copying textured or
    > stipple-surfaced papers, which is the image tones are 'modulated' by the
    > stipple pattern. The image density in the 'valleys' of the texture is
    > lighter than the 'peaks'. I don't know whether this is because the
    > emulsion thickness is reduced in the valleys by the patterning, or
    > whether the print developer doesn't get to the valleys as fast as to the
    > peaks. Whatever, even after scanning with a dual-lamp scanner and
    > eliminating the texture, there remains these myriad white dots in the
    > grays and blacks that are damn near impossible to remove without
    > excessive blurring of the image. In my b/w darkroom days, if I pulled a
    > print early from the developer because the the print was a bit
    > overexposed, this 'modulation' patterning was quite obvious, so I
    > suspect it is a development problem.


    Your description fits a number of the problem prints, especially those
    with the more pronounced stipling, I started with two lights at
    forty-five degrees and about two and a half times the diagonal of the
    print away, sort of standard copy stand. I was getting the white spots
    that look like specular highlights in patterns that matched the surface
    of the print. I layered all the lights with up to 6 layers of white
    chiffon and still couldn't make any headway. I ended up directing all
    of the lights away from the print and reflected some light back with
    matte white paper. Still have the patterns but to a much lesser
    degree. They are tolerable for copies at 100% but at two hundred
    percent really noticeable. I know some really elaborate methods in PS
    but I'm hoping something simple and elegant might come along. Many of
    the photos were taken by the same studio and he liked a background that
    went from upper light to lower dark and the worst of the specular
    looking grain is in the upper sections. It wouldn't be hard to
    eliminate it from the background but it shows up in a lot of faces as
    well. Fortunately that textured print paper only lies in about a ten
    year period and almost all of it in wedding portraits. Thanks.
    , Feb 24, 2006
    #4
  5. ben brugman Guest

    You could try to make several pictures, all exactly the same in
    position, but with varying lightning.

    Then in Photoshop or another tool that allows manipulation with
    several pictures, try to extract one picture from another.
    You might be able to isolate the pattern (abit) then use this
    pattern again on one of the pictures to get rid of the pattern.

    I doubt that this method will eliminate the pattern, but I think
    that there must be combinations which do improve the pictures.

    Example (very oversimplified).
    A. picture with extreem pattern
    B. picture with a little bit off pattern.

    Make a C which is the difference between A and B. (A - B),
    which will give the pattern.
    Then subtract the C from the B so that the pattern gets
    suptracted from B.

    ben
    <> schreef in bericht
    news:...
    >
    > Colin D wrote:
    >>
    >> There is a problem I have run into when copying textured or
    >> stipple-surfaced papers, which is the image tones are 'modulated' by the
    >> stipple pattern. The image density in the 'valleys' of the texture is
    >> lighter than the 'peaks'. I don't know whether this is because the
    >> emulsion thickness is reduced in the valleys by the patterning, or
    >> whether the print developer doesn't get to the valleys as fast as to the
    >> peaks. Whatever, even after scanning with a dual-lamp scanner and
    >> eliminating the texture, there remains these myriad white dots in the
    >> grays and blacks that are damn near impossible to remove without
    >> excessive blurring of the image. In my b/w darkroom days, if I pulled a
    >> print early from the developer because the the print was a bit
    >> overexposed, this 'modulation' patterning was quite obvious, so I
    >> suspect it is a development problem.

    >
    > Your description fits a number of the problem prints, especially those
    > with the more pronounced stipling, I started with two lights at
    > forty-five degrees and about two and a half times the diagonal of the
    > print away, sort of standard copy stand. I was getting the white spots
    > that look like specular highlights in patterns that matched the surface
    > of the print. I layered all the lights with up to 6 layers of white
    > chiffon and still couldn't make any headway. I ended up directing all
    > of the lights away from the print and reflected some light back with
    > matte white paper. Still have the patterns but to a much lesser
    > degree. They are tolerable for copies at 100% but at two hundred
    > percent really noticeable. I know some really elaborate methods in PS
    > but I'm hoping something simple and elegant might come along. Many of
    > the photos were taken by the same studio and he liked a background that
    > went from upper light to lower dark and the worst of the specular
    > looking grain is in the upper sections. It wouldn't be hard to
    > eliminate it from the background but it shows up in a lot of faces as
    > well. Fortunately that textured print paper only lies in about a ten
    > year period and almost all of it in wedding portraits. Thanks.
    >
    ben brugman, Feb 24, 2006
    #5
  6. vixen2yall Guest

    wrote:
    > Colin D wrote:
    >
    >>There is a problem I have run into when copying textured or
    >>stipple-surfaced papers, which is the image tones are 'modulated' by the
    >>stipple pattern. The image density in the 'valleys' of the texture is
    >>lighter than the 'peaks'. I don't know whether this is because the
    >>emulsion thickness is reduced in the valleys by the patterning, or
    >>whether the print developer doesn't get to the valleys as fast as to the
    >>peaks. Whatever, even after scanning with a dual-lamp scanner and
    >>eliminating the texture, there remains these myriad white dots in the
    >>grays and blacks that are damn near impossible to remove without
    >>excessive blurring of the image. In my b/w darkroom days, if I pulled a
    >>print early from the developer because the the print was a bit
    >>overexposed, this 'modulation' patterning was quite obvious, so I
    >>suspect it is a development problem.

    >
    >
    > Your description fits a number of the problem prints, especially those
    > with the more pronounced stipling, I started with two lights at
    > forty-five degrees and about two and a half times the diagonal of the
    > print away, sort of standard copy stand. I was getting the white spots
    > that look like specular highlights in patterns that matched the surface
    > of the print. I layered all the lights with up to 6 layers of white
    > chiffon and still couldn't make any headway. I ended up directing all
    > of the lights away from the print and reflected some light back with
    > matte white paper. Still have the patterns but to a much lesser
    > degree. They are tolerable for copies at 100% but at two hundred
    > percent really noticeable. I know some really elaborate methods in PS
    > but I'm hoping something simple and elegant might come along. Many of
    > the photos were taken by the same studio and he liked a background that
    > went from upper light to lower dark and the worst of the specular
    > looking grain is in the upper sections. It wouldn't be hard to
    > eliminate it from the background but it shows up in a lot of faces as
    > well. Fortunately that textured print paper only lies in about a ten
    > year period and almost all of it in wedding portraits. Thanks.
    >

    question: and i don't do a whole lotta prints but i do have a few
    scanned photos w/ the issues your discussing.

    if you were to take two digital copies of the same photo and soften the
    background copy to the point where the white dots disappear, and then
    layer the second copy over the top (PS); would that remove the white
    dots w/o too much data loss? neither of you mentioned if you had tried
    this, but seems like it would be a quick fix for your problem. mind you
    there would have be some adjustments made to the top layer (opac), and
    adjustments to the background layer so there isn't a halo effect over
    every object in the photo. (have no idea how to restrain that unless
    it's done w/ a masking tool prior to soften filtering. i'm sure a ps
    news group would know.) but seems like it wouldn't be very difficult
    once you figure out how to get it to work right.

    just a thought
    cheers
    kat
    vixen2yall, Feb 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Isaiah Beard Guest

    Colin D wrote:

    > If you are using a scanner with a single lamp, the problem is the photo
    > is lit from one side only, causing the texture to show up. If you can
    > find or afford a higher-spec scannner that has dual lamps, like the
    > Canon 9950F, the problem is greatly lessened.


    Another possibility is to use a Canon CIS (Contact Image Sensor)
    scanner, like any of their LIDE scanners, or the Pixma MP500 All-In-One.
    The CIS scanners use LEDs instead of lamps, allowing the light to be
    applied head-on instead of at an angle. The distance between the platen
    glass and the sensor is also greatly reduced.


    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
    Isaiah Beard, Feb 26, 2006
    #7
  8. Another method is to submerge the print in water and photograph it.
    Gene

    "Gene F. Rhodes" wrote:

    > I would try photographing it with a ring light.
    > Gene
    >
    > wrote:
    >
    > > I elected myself to digitize the family photos and I'm having a problem
    > > with portraits done in the late forties to mid-fifties. It was popular
    > > then to print on a textured paper which is showing through as patterns.
    > > Any direct light accentuates the problem so I took to using soft
    > > reflected light on to the originals but still with noticeable pattern
    > > showing through. I didn't want to soften the focus as many are group
    > > shots of wedding parties or similar shots with intricate detail.
    > > Question is can anyone point me toward a Photoshop technique for
    > > removing the pattern. A lot of the pattern comes through much like
    > > noise and sharpening of course makes it worse. I'm sure there's a
    > > technique for blurring in the noise on a layer and then selectively
    > > doing local sharpening afterward. Any suggestions?
    Gene F. Rhodes, Feb 26, 2006
    #8
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