Photo of dying marine: was it right for AP to publish?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Kulvinder Singh Matharu, Sep 7, 2009.

  1. Came across this article about AP publishing a photo of a dying US
    marine and the controversy surrounding it. There hasn't been much
    news here in the UK about it but I expect that it's big news in the
    US.

    <http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/53173,news,photograph-of-dying-marine-joshua-bernard-was-it-right-for-the-associated-press-to-publish>

    I'm all up for showing how things are and the press have done so on
    may occasions, but at the same time the family must be very upset. So
    I'm in two minds about this. Storm in a tea cup? Or genuine concern
    on showing dead or dying NATO/ISAF soldiers?
    --
    Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Website : www.metalvortex.com
    Contact : www.metalvortex.com/contact/

    "Brain" and "brain"! What is "brain"?!
     
    Kulvinder Singh Matharu, Sep 7, 2009
    #1
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  2. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    RichA Guest

    Kulvinder Singh Matharu wrote:
    > Came across this article about AP publishing a photo of a dying US
    > marine and the controversy surrounding it. There hasn't been much
    > news here in the UK about it but I expect that it's big news in the
    > US.
    >
    >


    There was no news value in it, the media outlets, threatened by
    falling usage and viewers are desperate and will do anything to drum
    up an audience.
     
    RichA, Sep 7, 2009
    #2
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  3. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Guest

    Kulvinder Singh Matharu wrote:
    > Came across this article about AP publishing a photo of a dying US
    > marine and the controversy surrounding it. There hasn't been much
    > news here in the UK about it but I expect that it's big news in the
    > US.
    >
    > <http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/53173,news,photograph-of-dying-marine-joshua-bernard-was-it-right-for-the-associated-press-to-publish>
    >
    > I'm all up for showing how things are and the press have done so on
    > may occasions, but at the same time the family must be very upset. So
    > I'm in two minds about this. Storm in a tea cup? Or genuine concern
    > on showing dead or dying NATO/ISAF soldiers?



    I feel images like this might make just some of the "pro war" people
    realize that yes fighting wars does cost lives. Shots of soldiers lined
    up in a parade might be more pleasant but isn't reality.

    Stephanie
     
    , Sep 8, 2009
    #3
  4. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Annika1980 Guest

    On Sep 7, 8:10 pm, Doug McDonald <> wrote:
    >
    > NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
    > the family's wishes, and the people who
    > started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban. There is nothing
    > wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
    > had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
    >


    Since when does a photojournalist or a media outlet need permission to
    take or publish pics?
    I think it's bad enough that our government censors pretty much all
    negative coverage of our wars.
    The military is quick to show cool videos of laser-guided missiles
    blowing up supply trucks, but they don't like it when the media shows
    what happens on the other side. Should we not show any footage of
    bombs blowing up in deference to the poor Afghan families who just
    lost their sons and brothers? Of course not. It's a war. People die
    in wars. If you don't like it then stop the fucking wars.
     
    Annika1980, Sep 8, 2009
    #4
  5. On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:10:52 -0500, Doug McDonald
    <> wrote:

    >DG wrote:
    >> Kulvinder Singh Matharu wrote:
    >>> Came across this article about AP publishing a photo of a dying US
    >>> marine and the controversy surrounding it. There hasn't been much
    >>> news here in the UK about it but I expect that it's big news in the
    >>> US.
    >>>
    >>> <http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/53173,news,photograph-of-dying-marine-joshua-bernard-was-it-right-for-the-associated-press-to-publish>
    >>>
    >>> I'm all up for showing how things are and the press have done so on
    >>> may occasions, but at the same time the family must be very upset. So
    >>> I'm in two minds about this. Storm in a tea cup? Or genuine concern
    >>> on showing dead or dying NATO/ISAF soldiers?


    This is the first I heard about it. During the 60's and 70's is was
    perfectly common practice to show all the atrocities of war. But the
    right-wing scum are too afraid of showing anyone the truth these days. It's
    how they're able to perpetuate their stupidity and insanity, by not making
    it clear to the world. They're too insecure and afraid to show their true
    face and all they have "accomplished" to the world.

    >>
    >>
    >> What's a photographer supposed to do? Quit shooting in a war zone
    >> because someone might die?
    >>
    >> If people are upset about the photo then they should blame the
    >> politicians for the war, not the photographer for the image.
    >>

    >
    >
    >NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
    >the family's wishes, and the people who
    >started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban. There is nothing
    >wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
    >had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
    >
    >Doug McDonald


    So ... let me get this straight .... It's okay to photograph them killing
    someone and publishing it without asking, but not okay to photograph them
    being killed and publishing it without asking. Have I got that correct now?
     
    Clancy Clarity, Sep 8, 2009
    #5
  6. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Annika1980 Guest

    On Sep 7, 8:31 pm, Clancy Clarity <> wrote:

    > So ... let me get this straight .... It's okay to photograph them killing
    > someone and publishing it without asking, but not okay to photograph them
    > being killed and publishing it without asking. Have I got that correct now?


    That's about it.

    In our town there is a newspaper called "Just Busted" which features
    mugshots of everybody arrested that week. There is some controversy
    over this rag since the people haven't been convicted or even tried of
    anything.

    I'd like to see what would happen if someone tried to publish a
    similar newspaper showing pics of people just killed in wars
    overseas. They could call it, "Just Blownthefuckup."
     
    Annika1980, Sep 8, 2009
    #6
  7. On 9/7/2009 5:25 PM Annika1980 spake thus:

    > The military is quick to show cool videos of laser-guided missiles
    > blowing up supply trucks, but they don't like it when the media shows
    > what happens on the other side. Should we not show any footage of
    > bombs blowing up in deference to the poor Afghan families who just
    > lost their sons and brothers? Of course not. It's a war. People
    > die in wars. If you don't like it then stop the fucking wars.


    Amen.


    --
    Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
     
    David Nebenzahl, Sep 8, 2009
    #7
  8. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Guest

    ....And if the picture was of you --> and the last memory your children
    would have of you, would it still be okay to publish it?





    In <>, on
    09/07/2009
    at 05:25 PM, Annika1980 <> said:



    >On Sep 7, 8:10 pm, Doug McDonald <> wrote: >
    >> NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
    >> the family's wishes, and the people who
    >> started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban. There is nothing
    >> wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
    >> had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
    >>


    >Since when does a photojournalist or a media outlet need permission to
    >take or publish pics?
    >I think it's bad enough that our government censors pretty much all
    >negative coverage of our wars.
    >The military is quick to show cool videos of laser-guided missiles
    >blowing up supply trucks, but they don't like it when the media shows
    >what happens on the other side. Should we not show any footage of bombs
    >blowing up in deference to the poor Afghan families who just lost their
    >sons and brothers? Of course not. It's a war. People die in wars. If
    >you don't like it then stop the fucking wars.
     
    , Sep 8, 2009
    #8
  9. On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:29:48 GMT, wrote:

    >
    >
    >...And if the picture was of you --> and the last memory your children
    >would have of you, would it still be okay to publish it?
    >
    >


    Most certainly. I'd love nothing better than to show them and give them
    proof of what happens when you unknowingly become nothing but a
    corporate-pawn under the guise of "protecting freedom".
     
    Reality Bytes, Sep 8, 2009
    #9
  10. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Doug McDonald <> wrote:
    >RichA wrote:
    >>
    >> Kulvinder Singh Matharu wrote:
    >>> Came across this article about AP publishing a photo of a dying US
    >>> marine and the controversy surrounding it. There hasn't been much
    >>> news here in the UK about it but I expect that it's big news in the
    >>> US.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> There was no news value in it, the media outlets, threatened by
    >> falling usage and viewers are desperate and will do anything to drum
    >> up an audience.

    >
    >The picture itself is no news. The scum left-wing media use these
    >to try to make people feel sick and therefore want to lose a war.
    >Its standard stuff and long since the whole affair is well known.


    And after all, telling the taxpayers how their money is being spent
    cannot have any relevance. When neocons and rightards want to kill
    people there can be no criticism tolerated.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Sep 8, 2009
    #10
  11. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Doug McDonald <> wrote:
    >DG wrote:
    >> If people are upset about the photo then they should blame the
    >> politicians for the war, not the photographer for the image.

    >
    >NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
    >the family's wishes, and the people who
    >started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban.


    That's a rightard lie. It was Bush and the neocons who started the war.

    > There is nothing
    >wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
    >had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.


    The soldier was there on the taxpayer's dime. The taxpayers have the
    right to know how their money is being spent.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Sep 8, 2009
    #11
  12. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Doug McDonald <> wrote:
    >Annika1980 wrote:
    >> On Sep 7, 8:10 pm, Doug McDonald <> wrote:
    >>> NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
    >>> the family's wishes, and the people who
    >>> started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban. There is nothing
    >>> wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
    >>> had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Since when does a photojournalist or a media outlet need permission to
    >> take or publish pics?

    >\
    >When COMMON DECENCY suggests so, that's when!


    There is nothing decent about war. What you want is to hide
    the cost of the war that you want fought.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Sep 8, 2009
    #12
  13. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    ^Tems^ Guest

    Kulvinder Singh Matharu wrote:
    > Came across this article about AP publishing a photo of a dying US
    > marine and the controversy surrounding it. There hasn't been much
    > news here in the UK about it but I expect that it's big news in the
    > US.
    >
    > <http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/53173,news,photograph-of-dying-marine-joshua-bernard-was-it-right-for-the-associated-press-to-publish>
    >
    > I'm all up for showing how things are and the press have done so on
    > may occasions, but at the same time the family must be very upset. So
    > I'm in two minds about this. Storm in a tea cup? Or genuine concern
    > on showing dead or dying NATO/ISAF soldiers?


    So why the big deal all of the sudden about a war photo?

    Why is any different to old black and white photos of soldiers torn
    apart on the battle field of WW1 or the Aussie soldier blindfolded on
    his knees with a japanese soldier raising the sword above his head to
    decapitate him or images of Jews being executed in front of mass grave
    pits or that Viet cong dude being shot in the head.

    What about websites like rotten.com or ogrish showing photos of car
    accidents or murders, sometime in the futre the families of these
    victims may come across them.

    We are now in the communication age thanks to the internet, the only way
    to stop images like this being published is to ban cameras.

    Humans have a morbid curiosity for images like this.
     
    ^Tems^, Sep 8, 2009
    #13
  14. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Apteryx Guest

    Doug McDonald wrote:
    > Annika1980 wrote:
    >> On Sep 7, 8:10 pm, Doug McDonald <> wrote:
    >>> NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
    >>> the family's wishes, and the people who
    >>> started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban. There is nothing
    >>> wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
    >>> had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Since when does a photojournalist or a media outlet need permission to
    >> take or publish pics?

    > \
    > When COMMON DECENCY suggests so, that's when!
    >
    > Doug McDonald


    So clearly not yet then

    Apteryx
     
    Apteryx, Sep 8, 2009
    #14
  15. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Guest

    wrote:
    >
    > ...And if the picture was of you --> and the last memory your children
    > would have of you, would it still be okay to publish it?
    >
    >


    Of course I would. Since when is dying for your country something to
    hide or be ashamed of?

    Stephanie
     
    , Sep 8, 2009
    #15
  16. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Guest

    Doug McDonald wrote:
    > wrote:
    >> Kulvinder Singh Matharu wrote:
    >>> Came across this article about AP publishing a photo of a dying US
    >>> marine and the controversy surrounding it. There hasn't been much
    >>> news here in the UK about it but I expect that it's big news in the
    >>> US.
    >>>
    >>> <http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/53173,news,photograph-of-dying-marine-joshua-bernard-was-it-right-for-the-associated-press-to-publish>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I'm all up for showing how things are and the press have done so on
    >>> may occasions, but at the same time the family must be very upset. So
    >>> I'm in two minds about this. Storm in a tea cup? Or genuine concern
    >>> on showing dead or dying NATO/ISAF soldiers?

    >>
    >>
    >> I feel images like this might make just some of the "pro war" people
    >> realize that yes fighting wars does cost lives. Shots of soldiers
    >> lined up in a parade might be more pleasant but isn't reality.
    >>

    >
    >
    > What about compensating images of al Qaeda's victims .. like the
    > hrrobly burned ones from 9/11, of the Taliban's victims.


    Well they did show those from Iraq, the burned guys hanging. Was that
    the left wing too?

    Stephanie
     
    , Sep 8, 2009
    #16
  17. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Twibil Guest

    On Sep 7, 9:49 pm, "" <> wrote:
    >
    > > ...And if the picture was of you --> and the last memory your children
    > > would have of you, would it still be okay to publish it?

    >
    > Of course I would. Since when is dying for your country something to
    > hide or be ashamed of?


    Not that I've died for my country yet, but as an ex infantryman thanx
    for that anyway.

    The wrenching photographs that have come out of wars ever since the
    camera became portable enough to make them possible have let the
    public see what war is really about, and right up until the end of
    Viet Nam such photo-journalism was simply considered to be an
    important -if risky for the photographer- part of history. (See Ken
    Burns' Civil War documentary for a striking example.)

    Then after Viet Nam the US military decided that it would be better if
    the US public was not allowed to see such photos, as it might
    prejudice them against supporting a future war -as the military felt
    had happened in Viet Nam.

    Ever since then, the military -and the rest of the US government as
    well- have frequently tried to make it difficult to take such photos,
    or to allow them to be seen by the public if they *are* taken.

    Call it "editing history in advance", and you won't be too far wrong.

    ~Pete
     
    Twibil, Sep 8, 2009
    #17
  18. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Guest

    Son, I bet you never served or saw war face to face. If you had, you
    would like it so much.




    In <h84dfl$225$>, on 09/07/2009
    at 08:53 PM, Doug McDonald <> said:



    > wrote:
    >>
    >> ...And if the picture was of you --> and the last memory your children
    >> would have of you, would it still be okay to publish it?
    >>
    >>
    >>


    >Yes, absolutely. But I would like for the people showing it to note that
    >I died to prevent the atrocities perpetrated on the
    >innocent 9/11 victims from happening again. Absent that,
    >I would expect my family to point out to my children
    >how the left wing scum had used my image for their purposes.


    >Doug McDonald
     
    , Sep 8, 2009
    #18
  19. Community Organizer, Sep 8, 2009
    #19
  20. Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    J. Clarke Guest

    wrote:
    > Son, I bet you never served or saw war face to face. If you had, you
    > would like it so much.


    Nobody likes it, but propaganda intended to promote "bring our boys home
    regardless of the cost" agenda isn't serving anybody but those Iraqis who
    want to be the next Saddam.

    > In <h84dfl$225$>, on 09/07/2009
    > at 08:53 PM, Doug McDonald <> said:
    >
    >
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> ...And if the picture was of you --> and the last memory your
    >>> children would have of you, would it still be okay to publish it?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >
    >> Yes, absolutely. But I would like for the people showing it to note
    >> that I died to prevent the atrocities perpetrated on the
    >> innocent 9/11 victims from happening again. Absent that,
    >> I would expect my family to point out to my children
    >> how the left wing scum had used my image for their purposes.

    >
    >> Doug McDonald
     
    J. Clarke, Sep 8, 2009
    #20
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