Photo nightmare, please save my life!!

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by D O'Reilly, Jul 20, 2004.

  1. D O'Reilly

    D O'Reilly Guest

    i have bought a canon G5 & a canon 420ex speedlite flash, i will be
    taking the photos at a family wedding, as i do not have a lot of time
    to get to know the camera i was wondering if there are any G5 users
    out there who would be able to recommend a list of settings on the
    camera and flash to get the best pictures on the day with the least
    amount of fuss,all the photos will be indoors in a hotel banqueting
    suite, your help would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Dave
     
    D O'Reilly, Jul 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. D O'Reilly

    Mark M Guest

    "D O'Reilly" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i have bought a canon G5 & a canon 420ex speedlite flash, i will be
    > taking the photos at a family wedding, as i do not have a lot of time
    > to get to know the camera i was wondering if there are any G5 users
    > out there who would be able to recommend a list of settings on the
    > camera and flash to get the best pictures on the day with the least
    > amount of fuss,all the photos will be indoors in a hotel banqueting
    > suite, your help would be very much appreciated.


    I sincerely hope that you are not THE wedding photographer.
    If so, then you have likely done a disservice to the wedding party, and even
    moreso to yourself.
    Nobody should try out a new system on a wedding...

    That said...
    Shoot in RAW mode (this will allow you to salvage poorly metered shots
    later).
    Expect to need flash in all but out-door, unless there are huge, bright
    windows.
    Most wedding lighting is not nearly bright enough...
    Pick up a flash diffuser and shoot some candids with it a bit before hand.
    Try some posed shots too.
    It will REALLY improve skin tones/textures, and reduce harsh flash shadows.
    Reach will be reduced, but for people pictures, it will make a huge
    difference.
    Lumiquest makes a nice one.
    -If you can't find this item, get a 5x7 index card, and cut one end a bit so
    that it is tapered. -Rubber band this end to your flash...point the flash
    upward...and then bend the card slightly forward (about 45 degrees or less).
    This will give you a similar effect.

    For distant shots, drop the diffuser.

    Make sure you are prepared to create custom white balance settings in the
    light that you'll be shooting under (at the hotel). For close proximity
    flash, just set white balance to flash mode.

    Do not shoot in AV mode, as this will attempt to expose for ambient light
    (even with flash). What will result will be shots that suffer from motion
    blur since it will keep the shutter open as long as it thinks it needs to
    (too long indoors).

    If you shoot in TV mode, don't go below about 1/60th if you can help it.
    The flash will attempt to provide whatever light you need automatically. If
    you're shooting a dance, crank it up to 1/200th or so--which will give you
    less power from the flash, but will nearly freeze motion (higher yet to
    really freeze, but you'll lose light...try it).
    You may want to set your camera manually to the flash synch speed
    (1/125th?). This will assure you you're getting full power from flash, and
    will avoid blur in most situations.

    Learn to interpret your histogram display.
    -Do NOT rely on your camera's screen to determine whether shots are blurry
    while shooting...
    ....you will be disappointed.


    For posed head shots, zoom about half-way out and back up until they fill
    the frame the way you like. Avoid getting to close using wide angle (this
    will give them big noses).
    For group shots, back up as far as is practical so that you don't force
    people on the sides of the group into the "fat zone" due to wide angle
    distortion at the edges.
    -Use as large an aperture as it allows to blur the background.
    -Focus on the eyes, then re-frame.

    If the hotel is nearby, take a spouse or friend there with you, and ask if
    you can visit the room you'll be in. Then take some shots there-which will
    be very revealing in terms of light and white balance needs.
     
    Mark M, Jul 20, 2004
    #2
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  3. D O'Reilly

    nikki Guest

    Nice answer Mark M.
    My suggestion is that DO' should hire you as The photographer.
    nikki

    "Mark M" <> wrote in message news:<CWZKc.9278$%p4.1710@okepread04>...
    > "D O'Reilly" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > i have bought a canon G5 & a canon 420ex speedlite flash, i will be
    > > taking the photos at a family wedding, as i do not have a lot of time
    > > to get to know the camera i was wondering if there are any G5 users
    > > out there who would be able to recommend a list of settings on the
    > > camera and flash to get the best pictures on the day with the least
    > > amount of fuss,all the photos will be indoors in a hotel banqueting
    > > suite, your help would be very much appreciated.

    >
    > I sincerely hope that you are not THE wedding photographer.
    > If so, then you have likely done a disservice to the wedding party, and even
    > moreso to yourself.
    > Nobody should try out a new system on a wedding...
    >
    > That said...
    > Shoot in RAW mode (this will allow you to salvage poorly metered shots
    > later).
    > Expect to need flash in all but out-door, unless there are huge, bright
    > windows.
    > Most wedding lighting is not nearly bright enough...
    > Pick up a flash diffuser and shoot some candids with it a bit before hand.
    > Try some posed shots too.
    > It will REALLY improve skin tones/textures, and reduce harsh flash shadows.
    > Reach will be reduced, but for people pictures, it will make a huge
    > difference.
    > Lumiquest makes a nice one.
    > -If you can't find this item, get a 5x7 index card, and cut one end a bit so
    > that it is tapered. -Rubber band this end to your flash...point the flash
    > upward...and then bend the card slightly forward (about 45 degrees or less).
    > This will give you a similar effect.
    >
    > For distant shots, drop the diffuser.
    >
    > Make sure you are prepared to create custom white balance settings in the
    > light that you'll be shooting under (at the hotel). For close proximity
    > flash, just set white balance to flash mode.
    >
    > Do not shoot in AV mode, as this will attempt to expose for ambient light
    > (even with flash). What will result will be shots that suffer from motion
    > blur since it will keep the shutter open as long as it thinks it needs to
    > (too long indoors).
    >
    > If you shoot in TV mode, don't go below about 1/60th if you can help it.
    > The flash will attempt to provide whatever light you need automatically. If
    > you're shooting a dance, crank it up to 1/200th or so--which will give you
    > less power from the flash, but will nearly freeze motion (higher yet to
    > really freeze, but you'll lose light...try it).
    > You may want to set your camera manually to the flash synch speed
    > (1/125th?). This will assure you you're getting full power from flash, and
    > will avoid blur in most situations.
    >
    > Learn to interpret your histogram display.
    > -Do NOT rely on your camera's screen to determine whether shots are blurry
    > while shooting...
    > ...you will be disappointed.
    >
    >
    > For posed head shots, zoom about half-way out and back up until they fill
    > the frame the way you like. Avoid getting to close using wide angle (this
    > will give them big noses).
    > For group shots, back up as far as is practical so that you don't force
    > people on the sides of the group into the "fat zone" due to wide angle
    > distortion at the edges.
    > -Use as large an aperture as it allows to blur the background.
    > -Focus on the eyes, then re-frame.
    >
    > If the hotel is nearby, take a spouse or friend there with you, and ask if
    > you can visit the room you'll be in. Then take some shots there-which will
    > be very revealing in terms of light and white balance needs.
     
    nikki, Jul 20, 2004
    #3
  4. D O'Reilly

    Bouser Guest

    You're a dead man. Taking a new camera and flash to shoot a wedding? This is
    totally insane. The most important day of the bride's life, a can't miss and
    can't reshoot event? Total chaos, at times, and rushed shots? And all this
    with a new consumer-level digital? that you don't really know how to use?

    Sell the camera and flash, and hire a pro. If you can't do that, just set it
    on "A" (full auto) and fire away. SO NOT experiment with various settings,
    since you'll likely screw up the most important shots of the day. But don't
    plan on anything quick or fast. Those things don't focus very fast, and
    there's always a shutter delay. Shoot at the highest resolution, make sure
    you have plenty of memory (CF cards are not normally sold at weddings), and
    make backups as soon as you can. My sympathies.

    "D O'Reilly" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i have bought a canon G5 & a canon 420ex speedlite flash, i will be
    > taking the photos at a family wedding, as i do not have a lot of time
    > to get to know the camera i was wondering if there are any G5 users
    > out there who would be able to recommend a list of settings on the
    > camera and flash to get the best pictures on the day with the least
    > amount of fuss,all the photos will be indoors in a hotel banqueting
    > suite, your help would be very much appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Dave
     
    Bouser, Jul 20, 2004
    #4
  5. D O'Reilly

    Jim Guest

    I hope the "family" is forgiving. I have a friend who shot a wedding with
    35 mm. The photo processing service ruined all the negatives. He was sued
    and had to pay for air fare to get the wedding party back together as well
    as the tux rentals. To make matters worse they had another photographer do
    the pictures at his expense. He lost his business. I wouldn't touch this
    shoot with a ten foot pole.....


    "D O'Reilly" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i have bought a canon G5 & a canon 420ex speedlite flash, i will be
    > taking the photos at a family wedding, as i do not have a lot of time
    > to get to know the camera i was wondering if there are any G5 users
    > out there who would be able to recommend a list of settings on the
    > camera and flash to get the best pictures on the day with the least
    > amount of fuss,all the photos will be indoors in a hotel banqueting
    > suite, your help would be very much appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Dave
     
    Jim, Jul 20, 2004
    #5
  6. D O'Reilly

    D O'Reilly Guest

    Thanks for the tips.
     
    D O'Reilly, Jul 20, 2004
    #6
  7. D O'Reilly

    Sabineellen Guest

    >
    >I hope the "family" is forgiving. I have a friend who shot a wedding with
    >35 mm. The photo processing service ruined all the negatives. He was sued
    >and had to pay for air fare to get the wedding party back together as well
    >as the tux rentals. To make matters worse they had another photographer do
    >the pictures at his expense. He lost his business. I wouldn't touch this
    >shoot with a ten foot pole.....


    That's ridiculous! No sane judge should allow this. If it's for real, then the
    judge was an idiot.

    Weddings are not just about photos.
     
    Sabineellen, Jul 20, 2004
    #7
  8. D O'Reilly

    Jim Guest

    Well this happened in the US and as it goes here:

    If things don't go my way, I'll find somebody to sue!!


    "Sabineellen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >
    > >I hope the "family" is forgiving. I have a friend who shot a wedding

    with
    > >35 mm. The photo processing service ruined all the negatives. He was

    sued
    > >and had to pay for air fare to get the wedding party back together as

    well
    > >as the tux rentals. To make matters worse they had another photographer

    do
    > >the pictures at his expense. He lost his business. I wouldn't touch

    this
    > >shoot with a ten foot pole.....

    >
    > That's ridiculous! No sane judge should allow this. If it's for real, then

    the
    > judge was an idiot.
    >
    > Weddings are not just about photos.
     
    Jim, Jul 20, 2004
    #8
  9. D O'Reilly

    Big Bill Guest

    On 20 Jul 2004 18:10:03 GMT, (Sabineellen) wrote:

    >>
    >>I hope the "family" is forgiving. I have a friend who shot a wedding with
    >>35 mm. The photo processing service ruined all the negatives. He was sued
    >>and had to pay for air fare to get the wedding party back together as well
    >>as the tux rentals. To make matters worse they had another photographer do
    >>the pictures at his expense. He lost his business. I wouldn't touch this
    >>shoot with a ten foot pole.....

    >
    >That's ridiculous! No sane judge should allow this. If it's for real, then the
    >judge was an idiot.
    >
    >Weddings are not just about photos.


    I find this hard to belive, too (not that I'm calling anyone a liar!).
    I would think the legal remedy would be for the cost of the
    photographer only.

    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
     
    Big Bill, Jul 20, 2004
    #9
  10. D O'Reilly

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    Sabineellen <> wrote:

    > Weddings are not just about photos.


    Clearly you've never worked a wedding. :)

    Rule number one of photography: never, ever, for any reason, under any
    circumstance, shoot a friend or family member's wedding.

    --
    Jeremy |
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Jul 20, 2004
    #10
  11. D O'Reilly

    Bowser Guest

    "Jim" <> wrote in message
    news:cdjgnt$hm2$...
    > I hope the "family" is forgiving. I have a friend who shot a wedding with
    > 35 mm. The photo processing service ruined all the negatives. He was

    sued
    > and had to pay for air fare to get the wedding party back together as well
    > as the tux rentals. To make matters worse they had another photographer

    do
    > the pictures at his expense. He lost his business. I wouldn't touch this
    > shoot with a ten foot pole.....


    Sorry, I just can't believe this. the photographer is responsible for
    showing up and taking the photos, but is not liable for lab screw-ups. And
    the lab is only responsible for the cost of film replacement. Any proof?

    >
    >
    > "D O'Reilly" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > i have bought a canon G5 & a canon 420ex speedlite flash, i will be
    > > taking the photos at a family wedding, as i do not have a lot of time
    > > to get to know the camera i was wondering if there are any G5 users
    > > out there who would be able to recommend a list of settings on the
    > > camera and flash to get the best pictures on the day with the least
    > > amount of fuss,all the photos will be indoors in a hotel banqueting
    > > suite, your help would be very much appreciated.
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > >
    > > Dave

    >
    >
     
    Bowser, Jul 20, 2004
    #11
  12. D O'Reilly

    Skip M Guest

    "D O'Reilly" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i have bought a canon G5 & a canon 420ex speedlite flash, i will be
    > taking the photos at a family wedding, as i do not have a lot of time
    > to get to know the camera i was wondering if there are any G5 users
    > out there who would be able to recommend a list of settings on the
    > camera and flash to get the best pictures on the day with the least
    > amount of fuss,all the photos will be indoors in a hotel banqueting
    > suite, your help would be very much appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Dave


    Like everybody else said, leave it on program and hope for the best. BTW,
    that flash may be inadequate for the job. We have two of those 420EXs,
    which we just used Sunday to shoot a wedding. 6hrs and nearly 250 images
    each later, the flashes were overheating and failing, not firing even when
    fully charged, resulting in about 10 missed shots.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Jul 20, 2004
    #12
  13. D O'Reilly

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Jim wrote:

    > I hope the "family" is forgiving. I have a friend who shot a wedding with
    > 35 mm. The photo processing service ruined all the negatives. He was sued
    > and had to pay for air fare to get the wedding party back together as well
    > as the tux rentals. To make matters worse they had another photographer do
    > the pictures at his expense. He lost his business. I wouldn't touch this
    > shoot with a ten foot pole.....
    >
    >


    Hard to believe a judge could be such an idiot. The photographer
    shouldn't have to pay for something beyond his control. Might as well
    make the judge's clerk pay. It want HER fault either.
     
    Ron Hunter, Jul 21, 2004
    #13
  14. D O'Reilly

    Mark M Guest

    "Jim" <> wrote in message
    news:cdjo7p$lig$...
    > Well this happened in the US and as it goes here:
    >
    > If things don't go my way, I'll find somebody to sue!!


    Do you have a link to any info on this?
    Court case listing/number?
    That is public information, so you should be able to obtain it.
     
    Mark M, Jul 21, 2004
    #14
  15. D O'Reilly

    Skip M Guest

    "Mark M" <> wrote in message
    news:zrjLc.2523$ml.176@lakeread05...
    >
    > "Jim" <> wrote in message
    > news:cdjo7p$lig$...
    > > Well this happened in the US and as it goes here:
    > >
    > > If things don't go my way, I'll find somebody to sue!!

    >
    > Do you have a link to any info on this?
    > Court case listing/number?
    > That is public information, so you should be able to obtain it.
    >
    >

    Mark, you beat me to it. I have a standard wedding photographer's contract
    that indemnifies the photographer in case of anything beyond his control. I
    would have found it unlikely that a judge would find that way, if it weren't
    for the cases like the McDonald's coffee...

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Jul 21, 2004
    #15
  16. D O'Reilly

    Mark M Guest

    "Skip M" <> wrote in message
    news:wXlLc.2540$BX.41@lakeread08...
    > "Mark M" <> wrote in message
    > news:zrjLc.2523$ml.176@lakeread05...
    > >
    > > "Jim" <> wrote in message
    > > news:cdjo7p$lig$...
    > > > Well this happened in the US and as it goes here:
    > > >
    > > > If things don't go my way, I'll find somebody to sue!!

    > >
    > > Do you have a link to any info on this?
    > > Court case listing/number?
    > > That is public information, so you should be able to obtain it.
    > >
    > >

    > Mark, you beat me to it. I have a standard wedding photographer's

    contract
    > that indemnifies the photographer in case of anything beyond his control.

    I
    > would have found it unlikely that a judge would find that way, if it

    weren't
    > for the cases like the McDonald's coffee...


    He says such "specific" things like, "This happened in the US..."
    For a guy who says this happened to a "friend" I'd say he's grossly
    non-specific.
    I'm thinking this another one of those *I have a friend who* stories...

    Jim--If I'm wrong, then by all means follow up with meaningful info.
    If you do, I will happily retract my skepticism.
     
    Mark M, Jul 21, 2004
    #16
  17. On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:45:21 -0700, "Mark M"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"D O'Reilly" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> i have bought a canon G5 & a canon 420ex speedlite flash, i will be
    >> taking the photos at a family wedding, as i do not have a lot of time
    >> to get to know the camera i was wondering if there are any G5 users
    >> out there who would be able to recommend a list of settings on the
    >> camera and flash to get the best pictures on the day with the least
    >> amount of fuss,all the photos will be indoors in a hotel banqueting
    >> suite, your help would be very much appreciated.

    >
    >I sincerely hope that you are not THE wedding photographer.
    >If so, then you have likely done a disservice to the wedding party, and even
    >moreso to yourself.
    >Nobody should try out a new system on a wedding...


    A case in point:
    A good many years ago I was doing a wedding with a brand new Nikon
    F-3. About 15 minutes into the shoot the rewind lever fell off. Now
    that is more than a bit inconvenient. I still had my old F-2 with me
    which saved the day, even though I was able to repair the F-3 which
    was more than just a screw coming out.

    I always used "at least" two cameras. There is too much hinging on
    the equipment not to use at least one backup. A medium format for the
    posed, or formal shots was also quite common.

    >
    >That said...
    >Shoot in RAW mode (this will allow you to salvage poorly metered shots
    >later).
    >Expect to need flash in all but out-door, unless there are huge, bright
    >windows.


    There you will most likely need to use fill flash.

    >Most wedding lighting is not nearly bright enough...
    >Pick up a flash diffuser and shoot some candids with it a bit before hand.
    >Try some posed shots too.


    The diffuser really improves the flash shots.
    Thing is, for the posed shots having at least one and preferably two
    slaved units makes for far better results.

    >It will REALLY improve skin tones/textures, and reduce harsh flash shadows.
    >Reach will be reduced, but for people pictures, it will make a huge
    >difference.


    I used, and still have, a Vivitar 285. That had the power to reach
    even with a diffuser.

    >Lumiquest makes a nice one.
    >-If you can't find this item, get a 5x7 index card, and cut one end a bit so
    >that it is tapered. -Rubber band this end to your flash...point the flash
    >upward...and then bend the card slightly forward (about 45 degrees or less).
    >This will give you a similar effect.


    Even using it as "bounce" flash will help, but you have to be careful
    with that... colored ceilings, etc...

    >
    >For distant shots, drop the diffuser.
    >
    >Make sure you are prepared to create custom white balance settings in the
    >light that you'll be shooting under (at the hotel). For close proximity
    >flash, just set white balance to flash mode.
    >
    >Do not shoot in AV mode, as this will attempt to expose for ambient light
    >(even with flash). What will result will be shots that suffer from motion
    >blur since it will keep the shutter open as long as it thinks it needs to
    >(too long indoors).
    >
    >If you shoot in TV mode, don't go below about 1/60th if you can help it.
    >The flash will attempt to provide whatever light you need automatically. If
    >you're shooting a dance, crank it up to 1/200th or so--which will give you
    >less power from the flash, but will nearly freeze motion (higher yet to
    >really freeze, but you'll lose light...try it).
    >You may want to set your camera manually to the flash synch speed
    >(1/125th?). This will assure you you're getting full power from flash, and
    >will avoid blur in most situations.
    >
    >Learn to interpret your histogram display.
    >-Do NOT rely on your camera's screen to determine whether shots are blurry
    >while shooting...
    >...you will be disappointed.


    If he's the wedding photographer he wouldn't be the only one.

    As you well know there is a reason the pro wedding photographers have
    all that equipment and usually at least one assistant.

    To reliably do weddings with quality, takes good equipment with back
    ups, experience, and maybe a little luck now and then. For some one
    to go out with one new camera to do a wedding takes a *lot* of luck.

    >
    >
    >For posed head shots, zoom about half-way out and back up until they fill
    >the frame the way you like. Avoid getting to close using wide angle (this
    >will give them big noses).


    Or other attributes.<:))

    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    www.rogerhalstead.com
    >For group shots, back up as far as is practical so that you don't force
    >people on the sides of the group into the "fat zone" due to wide angle
    >distortion at the edges.
    >-Use as large an aperture as it allows to blur the background.
    >-Focus on the eyes, then re-frame.
    >
    >If the hotel is nearby, take a spouse or friend there with you, and ask if
    >you can visit the room you'll be in. Then take some shots there-which will
    >be very revealing in terms of light and white balance needs.
    >
     
    Roger Halstead, Jul 21, 2004
    #17
  18. D O'Reilly

    Big Bill Guest

    On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:54:17 GMT, Roger Halstead
    <> wrote:

    >A case in point:
    >A good many years ago I was doing a wedding with a brand new Nikon
    >F-3. About 15 minutes into the shoot the rewind lever fell off. Now
    >that is more than a bit inconvenient. I still had my old F-2 with me
    >which saved the day, even though I was able to repair the F-3 which
    >was more than just a screw coming out.


    A story (if no one minds... if they do, go tot he next post now :)
    )...
    Years ago, while in Disneyland, my (new) Fuji ST-801's rewind lever
    disconnected from the film can. I contacted one of the many Disney
    people, and was put in touch with a gentleman in a suit, who found me
    a groundskeeper's room that could be made lightproof, and a small
    phillip's head screwdriver (OK, I admit it, I take things apart to see
    how they work, so I know what I needed to make the fix).
    In a few minutes, the camera was fixed (better than new, obviously!).

    Points being: Disneyland goes out of their way to be nice; it helps to
    know how things work; and a litle ingenuity is a good thing to have.
    Being lucky doesn't hurt, either. :)

    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
     
    Big Bill, Jul 21, 2004
    #18
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