Phono preamp in old receiver problem

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by thanatoid, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Hi gang,

    I have an old Sharp AM/FM receiver with an 8-track player. Made
    in Japan ca. 1975 or something. It had a BSR turntable which was
    broken. I removed the seized turntable, cleaned the whole unit,
    sprayed all the pots, replaced the three little 6V bulbs behind
    the black/green tuner window, and it is fabulous. It's built
    like a tank and weighs a ton. The pots feel like military grade
    stuff. The function switches are simply unbelievable. The front
    panel is white (OK, bone now) with black controls, the box is
    all wood with the then-standard "vinyl wood veneer".

    I have a spare turntable which works perfectly. I intended to
    connect it to the phono preamp of this receiver. I did, but I am
    not getting sound. I am getting low-frequency pink noise, but no
    audio signal. What is even stranger is that I hear one of the
    channels "pop" when I dis/connect ONE of the two RCA audio
    cables going into the phono preamp of the receiver. I tested all
    the cables after extending them, and they are OK (see below).

    I tried connecting the turntable signal to the line input, and
    it DOES work. Of course, the signal is VERY low, but you CAN
    hear the LP playing with the volume full up. So either I DID
    somehow **** up the audio cable assembly (it tests OK though!)
    or the phono preamp is partially or totally NG, in which case
    there is probably nothing that can be done.

    The line inputs can be used for a CD/DVD player, the receiver
    works as a 4-speaker unit or 2 main/2 remote speakers, and it
    sounds great. AM and line in are loud as hell, FM volume is
    about 30% of that, but still usable.

    Does anyone have any idea what I should do first? I want to
    determine exactly /what/ in the chain from the *turntable audio
    cables/cable extensions/original RCA plugs and cable/circuit
    board* is NG.

    (The phonograph audio cables were only long enough to reach the
    bottom of the turntable, which was 3 inches above the main
    circuit board, now they have to reach to the back and out of the
    unit, so I had to add about 8 inches of cable - but I tested the
    cables, both channels, live /and/ ground, and I made NO mistakes
    - everything was connected/soldered correctly.

    If the phono preamp is dead, it's dead. The unit is still a
    /great/ AM (and decent FM) receiver and line-in amplifier,
    handles TWO sets of stereo speakers, and it will outlast all of
    us. I have yet to find an 8-track cartridge, but the mechanism
    and all the belts seem fine. Plus I don't think anyone needs an
    8-track deck, while /quite/ a few people might enjoy having a
    receiver with a phono preamp. Unless the phono preamp IS dead,
    of course. But maybe someone can help me determine if it
    actually IS dead...

    I /tried/ to make this short, really!

    Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

    (NB: I also posted this to several audio groups - had to post
    this separately since eternal sept will not allow me to
    crosspost to this group, possibly since it has no hierarchy in
    the group name.)


    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 9, 2010
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. thanatoid

    n0i Guest

    On 9/8/2010 7:15 PM, thanatoid wrote:
    > Hi gang,
    >
    > I have an old Sharp AM/FM receiver with an 8-track player. Made
    > in Japan ca. 1975 or something. It had a BSR turntable which was
    > broken. I removed the seized turntable, cleaned the whole unit,
    > sprayed all the pots, replaced the three little 6V bulbs behind
    > the black/green tuner window, and it is fabulous. It's built
    > like a tank and weighs a ton. The pots feel like military grade
    > stuff. The function switches are simply unbelievable. The front
    > panel is white (OK, bone now) with black controls, the box is
    > all wood with the then-standard "vinyl wood veneer".
    >
    > I have a spare turntable which works perfectly. I intended to
    > connect it to the phono preamp of this receiver. I did, but I am
    > not getting sound. I am getting low-frequency pink noise, but no
    > audio signal. What is even stranger is that I hear one of the
    > channels "pop" when I dis/connect ONE of the two RCA audio
    > cables going into the phono preamp of the receiver. I tested all
    > the cables after extending them, and they are OK (see below).
    >
    > I tried connecting the turntable signal to the line input, and
    > it DOES work. Of course, the signal is VERY low, but you CAN
    > hear the LP playing with the volume full up. So either I DID
    > somehow **** up the audio cable assembly (it tests OK though!)
    > or the phono preamp is partially or totally NG, in which case
    > there is probably nothing that can be done.
    >
    > The line inputs can be used for a CD/DVD player, the receiver
    > works as a 4-speaker unit or 2 main/2 remote speakers, and it
    > sounds great. AM and line in are loud as hell, FM volume is
    > about 30% of that, but still usable.
    >
    > Does anyone have any idea what I should do first? I want to
    > determine exactly /what/ in the chain from the *turntable audio
    > cables/cable extensions/original RCA plugs and cable/circuit
    > board* is NG.
    >
    > (The phonograph audio cables were only long enough to reach the
    > bottom of the turntable, which was 3 inches above the main
    > circuit board, now they have to reach to the back and out of the
    > unit, so I had to add about 8 inches of cable - but I tested the
    > cables, both channels, live /and/ ground, and I made NO mistakes
    > - everything was connected/soldered correctly.
    >
    > If the phono preamp is dead, it's dead. The unit is still a
    > /great/ AM (and decent FM) receiver and line-in amplifier,
    > handles TWO sets of stereo speakers, and it will outlast all of
    > us. I have yet to find an 8-track cartridge, but the mechanism
    > and all the belts seem fine. Plus I don't think anyone needs an
    > 8-track deck, while /quite/ a few people might enjoy having a
    > receiver with a phono preamp. Unless the phono preamp IS dead,
    > of course. But maybe someone can help me determine if it
    > actually IS dead...
    >
    > I /tried/ to make this short, really!
    >
    > Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
    >
    > (NB: I also posted this to several audio groups - had to post
    > this separately since eternal sept will not allow me to
    > crosspost to this group, possibly since it has no hierarchy in
    > the group name.)
    >
    >


    Have you checked for bad solder connections? The older an amp gets the
    worse the connections can be. heat/expansion/cool/contraction...

    Also, what exactly was wrong with the old BSR TT?

    n0i
    n0i, Sep 9, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. thanatoid

    PeeCee Guest

    "philo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9DEDB9C364E63thanexit@81.169.183.62...
    >> Hi gang,
    >>
    >> I have an old Sharp AM/FM receiver with an 8-track player. Made
    >> in Japan ca. 1975 or something. It had a BSR turntable which was
    >> broken. I removed the seized turntable, cleaned the whole unit,
    >> sprayed all the pots, replaced the three little 6V bulbs behind
    >> the black/green tuner window, and it is fabulous. It's built
    >> like a tank and weighs a ton. The pots feel like military grade
    >> stuff. The function switches are simply unbelievable. The front
    >> panel is white (OK, bone now) with black controls, the box is
    >> all wood with the then-standard "vinyl wood veneer".
    >>
    >> I have a spare turntable which works perfectly. I intended to
    >> connect it to the phono preamp of this receiver. I did, but I am
    >> not getting sound. I am getting low-frequency pink noise, but no
    >> audio signal. What is even stranger is that I hear one of the
    >> channels "pop" when I dis/connect ONE of the two RCA audio
    >> cables going into the phono preamp of the receiver. I tested all
    >> the cables after extending them, and they are OK (see below).
    >>
    >> I tried connecting the turntable signal to the line input, and
    >> it DOES work. Of course, the signal is VERY low, but you CAN
    >> hear the LP playing with the volume full up. So either I DID
    >> somehow **** up the audio cable assembly (it tests OK though!)
    >> or the phono preamp is partially or totally NG, in which case
    >> there is probably nothing that can be done.
    >>
    >> The line inputs can be used for a CD/DVD player, the receiver
    >> works as a 4-speaker unit or 2 main/2 remote speakers, and it
    >> sounds great. AM and line in are loud as hell, FM volume is
    >> about 30% of that, but still usable.
    >>
    >> Does anyone have any idea what I should do first? I want to
    >> determine exactly /what/ in the chain from the *turntable audio
    >> cables/cable extensions/original RCA plugs and cable/circuit
    >> board* is NG.
    >>
    >> (The phonograph audio cables were only long enough to reach the
    >> bottom of the turntable, which was 3 inches above the main
    >> circuit board, now they have to reach to the back and out of the
    >> unit, so I had to add about 8 inches of cable - but I tested the
    >> cables, both channels, live /and/ ground, and I made NO mistakes
    >> - everything was connected/soldered correctly.
    >>
    >> If the phono preamp is dead, it's dead. The unit is still a
    >> /great/ AM (and decent FM) receiver and line-in amplifier,
    >> handles TWO sets of stereo speakers, and it will outlast all of
    >> us. I have yet to find an 8-track cartridge, but the mechanism
    >> and all the belts seem fine. Plus I don't think anyone needs an
    >> 8-track deck, while /quite/ a few people might enjoy having a
    >> receiver with a phono preamp. Unless the phono preamp IS dead,
    >> of course. But maybe someone can help me determine if it
    >> actually IS dead...
    >>
    >> I /tried/ to make this short, really!
    >>
    >> Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
    >>
    >> (NB: I also posted this to several audio groups - had to post
    >> this separately since eternal sept will not allow me to
    >> crosspost to this group, possibly since it has no hierarchy in
    >> the group name.)
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > If you do not have an audio signal generator to test the pre-amp...
    > you can just put a wire to the input
    > and touch it...
    > if the pre-amp is working you should get a loud buzz or hum
    >



    Reminds me of the classic request to have a look at a
    radio/gramophone/whatever thats 'probably only got a broken wire' !!!!
    (notes carefully polished valves with all the markings buffed off and forced
    into the wrong sockets)

    Best I ever had was a TT that wouldn't work because the owner wanted to add
    a CD player input so he cut the 'red' wire to the TT 'because it was the
    most logical'
    (he was a teacher after all and 'knew' about these things)
    He was not best pleased when he discovered he'd cut the 12v DC to the TT and
    in the process cooked the regulated power supply on the PCB because he did
    it with the power on.
    :)
    P.
    PeeCee, Sep 9, 2010
    #3
  4. thanatoid

    philo Guest

    On 09/08/2010 08:42 PM, PeeCee wrote:
    >
    > "philo" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns9DEDB9C364E63thanexit@81.169.183.62...
    >>> Hi gang,
    >>>
    >>>


    <snip>
    d/ to make this short, really!
    >>>
    >>> Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> (NB: I also posted this to several audio groups - had to post
    >>> this separately since eternal sept will not allow me to
    >>> crosspost to this group, possibly since it has no hierarchy in
    >>> the group name.)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> If you do not have an audio signal generator to test the pre-amp...
    >> you can just put a wire to the input
    >> and touch it...
    >> if the pre-amp is working you should get a loud buzz or hum
    >>

    >
    >
    > Reminds me of the classic request to have a look at a
    > radio/gramophone/whatever thats 'probably only got a broken wire' !!!!
    > (notes carefully polished valves with all the markings buffed off and
    > forced into the wrong sockets)
    >
    > Best I ever had was a TT that wouldn't work because the owner wanted to
    > add a CD player input so he cut the 'red' wire to the TT 'because it was
    > the most logical'
    > (he was a teacher after all and 'knew' about these things)
    > He was not best pleased when he discovered he'd cut the 12v DC to the TT
    > and in the process cooked the regulated power supply on the PCB because
    > he did it with the power on.
    > :)
    > P.



    I must have at least 16 vacuum tube radios in my house...

    The other day I moved one and wow was it dusty back there!
    philo, Sep 9, 2010
    #4
  5. thanatoid

    NotMe Guest

    "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9DEDB9C364E63thanexit@81.169.183.62...
    > Hi gang,
    >
    > I have an old Sharp AM/FM receiver with an 8-track player. Made
    > in Japan ca. 1975 or something. It had a BSR turntable which was
    > broken. I removed the seized turntable, cleaned the whole unit,
    > sprayed all the pots, replaced the three little 6V bulbs behind
    > the black/green tuner window, and it is fabulous. It's built
    > like a tank and weighs a ton. The pots feel like military grade
    > stuff. The function switches are simply unbelievable. The front
    > panel is white (OK, bone now) with black controls, the box is
    > all wood with the then-standard "vinyl wood veneer".
    >
    > I have a spare turntable which works perfectly. I intended to
    > connect it to the phono preamp of this receiver. I did, but I am
    > not getting sound. I am getting low-frequency pink noise, but no
    > audio signal. What is even stranger is that I hear one of the
    > channels "pop" when I dis/connect ONE of the two RCA audio
    > cables going into the phono preamp of the receiver. I tested all
    > the cables after extending them, and they are OK (see below).
    >
    > I tried connecting the turntable signal to the line input, and
    > it DOES work. Of course, the signal is VERY low, but you CAN
    > hear the LP playing with the volume full up. So either I DID
    > somehow **** up the audio cable assembly (it tests OK though!)
    > or the phono preamp is partially or totally NG, in which case
    > there is probably nothing that can be done.
    >
    > The line inputs can be used for a CD/DVD player, the receiver
    > works as a 4-speaker unit or 2 main/2 remote speakers, and it
    > sounds great. AM and line in are loud as hell, FM volume is
    > about 30% of that, but still usable.
    >
    > Does anyone have any idea what I should do first? I want to
    > determine exactly /what/ in the chain from the *turntable audio
    > cables/cable extensions/original RCA plugs and cable/circuit
    > board* is NG.
    >
    > (The phonograph audio cables were only long enough to reach the
    > bottom of the turntable, which was 3 inches above the main
    > circuit board, now they have to reach to the back and out of the
    > unit, so I had to add about 8 inches of cable - but I tested the
    > cables, both channels, live /and/ ground, and I made NO mistakes
    > - everything was connected/soldered correctly.
    >
    > If the phono preamp is dead, it's dead. The unit is still a
    > /great/ AM (and decent FM) receiver and line-in amplifier,
    > handles TWO sets of stereo speakers, and it will outlast all of
    > us. I have yet to find an 8-track cartridge, but the mechanism
    > and all the belts seem fine. Plus I don't think anyone needs an
    > 8-track deck, while /quite/ a few people might enjoy having a
    > receiver with a phono preamp. Unless the phono preamp IS dead,
    > of course. But maybe someone can help me determine if it
    > actually IS dead...
    >
    > I /tried/ to make this short, really!
    >
    > Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
    >
    > (NB: I also posted this to several audio groups - had to post
    > this separately since eternal sept will not allow me to
    > crosspost to this group, possibly since it has no hierarchy in
    > the group name.)
    >
    >


    Been decades since I did any audio work on that sort of hardware. My SWAG
    would be an impedance problem. Perhaps an audio transformer on the input?
    NotMe, Sep 9, 2010
    #5
  6. thanatoid wrote:
    > Hi gang,
    >

    Not yet...

    > I have an old Sharp AM/FM receiver with an 8-track player. Made
    > in Japan ca. 1975 or something. It had a BSR turntable which was
    > broken. I removed the seized turntable,


    You shoulda stopped right there. If youda fix'd that you woulda had the
    right turntable for the rest of the system.

    SHAME ON YOU.

    --
    www.skepticalscience.com|www.youtube.com/officialpeta
    cageprisoners.com|www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.eyeonpalin.org
    _____ ____ ____ __ /\_/\ __ _ ______ _____
    / __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \ \ __\
    _\ \/ / /_/ / _ / \ / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\ _\
    /___/_/|_/\____/_//_/ \_@_/ \__|\__|\____/\____\_\
    §ñühw¤£f, Sep 9, 2010
    #6
  7. On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 09:44:17 -0500, "NotMe" <> wrote:

    >
    >"thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    >news:Xns9DEDB9C364E63thanexit@81.169.183.62...
    >> Hi gang,
    >>
    >> I have an old Sharp AM/FM receiver with an 8-track player. Made
    >> in Japan ca. 1975 or something. It had a BSR turntable which was
    >> broken. I removed the seized turntable, cleaned the whole unit,
    >> sprayed all the pots, replaced the three little 6V bulbs behind
    >> the black/green tuner window, and it is fabulous. It's built
    >> like a tank and weighs a ton. The pots feel like military grade
    >> stuff. The function switches are simply unbelievable. The front
    >> panel is white (OK, bone now) with black controls, the box is
    >> all wood with the then-standard "vinyl wood veneer".
    >>
    >> I have a spare turntable which works perfectly. I intended to
    >> connect it to the phono preamp of this receiver. I did, but I am
    >> not getting sound. I am getting low-frequency pink noise, but no
    >> audio signal. What is even stranger is that I hear one of the
    >> channels "pop" when I dis/connect ONE of the two RCA audio
    >> cables going into the phono preamp of the receiver. I tested all
    >> the cables after extending them, and they are OK (see below).
    >>
    >> I tried connecting the turntable signal to the line input, and
    >> it DOES work. Of course, the signal is VERY low, but you CAN
    >> hear the LP playing with the volume full up. So either I DID
    >> somehow **** up the audio cable assembly (it tests OK though!)
    >> or the phono preamp is partially or totally NG, in which case
    >> there is probably nothing that can be done.
    >>
    >> The line inputs can be used for a CD/DVD player, the receiver
    >> works as a 4-speaker unit or 2 main/2 remote speakers, and it
    >> sounds great. AM and line in are loud as hell, FM volume is
    >> about 30% of that, but still usable.
    >>
    >> Does anyone have any idea what I should do first? I want to
    >> determine exactly /what/ in the chain from the *turntable audio
    >> cables/cable extensions/original RCA plugs and cable/circuit
    >> board* is NG.
    >>
    >> (The phonograph audio cables were only long enough to reach the
    >> bottom of the turntable, which was 3 inches above the main
    >> circuit board, now they have to reach to the back and out of the
    >> unit, so I had to add about 8 inches of cable - but I tested the
    >> cables, both channels, live /and/ ground, and I made NO mistakes
    >> - everything was connected/soldered correctly.
    >>
    >> If the phono preamp is dead, it's dead. The unit is still a
    >> /great/ AM (and decent FM) receiver and line-in amplifier,
    >> handles TWO sets of stereo speakers, and it will outlast all of
    >> us. I have yet to find an 8-track cartridge, but the mechanism
    >> and all the belts seem fine. Plus I don't think anyone needs an
    >> 8-track deck, while /quite/ a few people might enjoy having a
    >> receiver with a phono preamp. Unless the phono preamp IS dead,
    >> of course. But maybe someone can help me determine if it
    >> actually IS dead...
    >>
    >> I /tried/ to make this short, really!
    >>
    >> Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
    >>
    >> (NB: I also posted this to several audio groups - had to post
    >> this separately since eternal sept will not allow me to
    >> crosspost to this group, possibly since it has no hierarchy in
    >> the group name.)
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Been decades since I did any audio work on that sort of hardware. My SWAG
    >would be an impedance problem. Perhaps an audio transformer on the input?
    >


    Why not start with the really easy and basic stuff that even a
    non-tech can check. Their may be corrosion on the little slide on
    connetors for the wires where they attach to the phono cartridge after
    sitting for so many years. Unplug each one and then simply plug it
    back on the pin it came off of.

    It could also be a bum phono cartridge. easy enough to check for a
    buzz when yu touch those connections. If they cause a loud buzz or hum
    when you touch them, but there is no sound when you touch the needle,
    the cartidge is bad.

    You could also try plugging the turntable into the regular line in to
    see iof there is ANY output. It will sound tinny, but it will tell you
    if the turntable, cartridge, and wires are all intact.
    BinaryBillThe Sailor@Sea++.com, Sep 9, 2010
    #7
  8. thanatoid

    joevan Guest

    On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:22:25 -0400, BinaryBillThe Sailor@Sea++.com
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 09:44:17 -0500, "NotMe" <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    >>news:Xns9DEDB9C364E63thanexit@81.169.183.62...
    >>> Hi gang,
    >>>
    >>> I have an old Sharp AM/FM receiver with an 8-track player. Made
    >>> in Japan ca. 1975 or something. It had a BSR turntable which was
    >>> broken. I removed the seized turntable, cleaned the whole unit,
    >>> sprayed all the pots, replaced the three little 6V bulbs behind
    >>> the black/green tuner window, and it is fabulous. It's built
    >>> like a tank and weighs a ton. The pots feel like military grade
    >>> stuff. The function switches are simply unbelievable. The front
    >>> panel is white (OK, bone now) with black controls, the box is
    >>> all wood with the then-standard "vinyl wood veneer".
    >>>
    >>> I have a spare turntable which works perfectly. I intended to
    >>> connect it to the phono preamp of this receiver. I did, but I am
    >>> not getting sound. I am getting low-frequency pink noise, but no
    >>> audio signal. What is even stranger is that I hear one of the
    >>> channels "pop" when I dis/connect ONE of the two RCA audio
    >>> cables going into the phono preamp of the receiver. I tested all
    >>> the cables after extending them, and they are OK (see below).
    >>>
    >>> I tried connecting the turntable signal to the line input, and
    >>> it DOES work. Of course, the signal is VERY low, but you CAN
    >>> hear the LP playing with the volume full up. So either I DID
    >>> somehow **** up the audio cable assembly (it tests OK though!)
    >>> or the phono preamp is partially or totally NG, in which case
    >>> there is probably nothing that can be done.
    >>>
    >>> The line inputs can be used for a CD/DVD player, the receiver
    >>> works as a 4-speaker unit or 2 main/2 remote speakers, and it
    >>> sounds great. AM and line in are loud as hell, FM volume is
    >>> about 30% of that, but still usable.
    >>>
    >>> Does anyone have any idea what I should do first? I want to
    >>> determine exactly /what/ in the chain from the *turntable audio
    >>> cables/cable extensions/original RCA plugs and cable/circuit
    >>> board* is NG.
    >>>
    >>> (The phonograph audio cables were only long enough to reach the
    >>> bottom of the turntable, which was 3 inches above the main
    >>> circuit board, now they have to reach to the back and out of the
    >>> unit, so I had to add about 8 inches of cable - but I tested the
    >>> cables, both channels, live /and/ ground, and I made NO mistakes
    >>> - everything was connected/soldered correctly.
    >>>
    >>> If the phono preamp is dead, it's dead. The unit is still a
    >>> /great/ AM (and decent FM) receiver and line-in amplifier,
    >>> handles TWO sets of stereo speakers, and it will outlast all of
    >>> us. I have yet to find an 8-track cartridge, but the mechanism
    >>> and all the belts seem fine. Plus I don't think anyone needs an
    >>> 8-track deck, while /quite/ a few people might enjoy having a
    >>> receiver with a phono preamp. Unless the phono preamp IS dead,
    >>> of course. But maybe someone can help me determine if it
    >>> actually IS dead...
    >>>
    >>> I /tried/ to make this short, really!
    >>>
    >>> Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> (NB: I also posted this to several audio groups - had to post
    >>> this separately since eternal sept will not allow me to
    >>> crosspost to this group, possibly since it has no hierarchy in
    >>> the group name.)
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Been decades since I did any audio work on that sort of hardware. My SWAG
    >>would be an impedance problem. Perhaps an audio transformer on the input?
    >>

    >
    >Why not start with the really easy and basic stuff that even a
    >non-tech can check. Their may be corrosion on the little slide on
    >connetors for the wires where they attach to the phono cartridge after
    >sitting for so many years. Unplug each one and then simply plug it
    >back on the pin it came off of.
    >
    >It could also be a bum phono cartridge. easy enough to check for a
    >buzz when yu touch those connections. If they cause a loud buzz or hum
    >when you touch them, but there is no sound when you touch the needle,
    >the cartidge is bad.
    >
    >You could also try plugging the turntable into the regular line in to
    >see iof there is ANY output. It will sound tinny, but it will tell you
    >if the turntable, cartridge, and wires are all intact.

    How about some industrial contact cleaner on all connections.
    joevan, Sep 9, 2010
    #8
  9. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    n0i <thunderstruck_n0i@live> wrote in
    news:45a3d$4c8820d3$4a533956$:

    > Have you checked for bad solder connections? The older an
    > amp gets the
    > worse the connections can be.
    > heat/expansion/cool/contraction...
    >
    > Also, what exactly was wrong with the old BSR TT?


    Thanks for your reply. Everything else works, all solder
    connections appear good, AND the BSR turntable HAD sound -
    please *see below* for the full (REALLY full, sorry) answer
    incl. your BSR q. reply:

    -- Update (very long, I apologize!) --

    First of all, many thanks to all who replied. It is very much
    appreciated.

    Now for the /bad/ part.

    Something one person mentioned in his reply made me remember a
    rather *crucial* detail which I had forgotten (I am not
    completely senile yet, but I have been /incredibly/ busy for the
    last few weeks, and my brain is running out of RAM).

    It is this: BEFORE I removed the BSR turntable, I DID check to
    see whether there was AUDIO SIGNAL coming from it. There was,
    loud and clear - when I touched the stylus, it sounded like an
    earthquake. Very little "system noise", too.

    The turntable itself was "seized" - after I have (with some
    violence) managed to take it apart, I saw that the 2 main cog
    wheels of the belt-less motor were practically frozen together
    at a bizarre angle and would NOT budge. I have NO idea how that
    happened - and the 4" screwdriver shaft, 2 children's plastic
    letters with magnets, and assorted bits of 30+ year old food I
    found inside the receiver could NOT have had anything to do with
    it, either, since the BSR motor was fairly well enclosed within
    the /incredibly/ complicated mechanical design (a changer).

    Now that I have remembered this, it is obvious I screwed
    something up. I have never seen a ceramic cartridge, but I am
    99.99% positive that BOTH the BSR and the Sony (ca. 1990)
    turntable carts are magnetic. So, since I have no signal but
    weird pink noise, I must have screwed up the cables. Or do you
    think I may have destroyed the preamp?

    (This may be a good moment to mention that I am using the term
    "phono preamp" in a generic sense. I always thought a phono
    preamp might be/would be a small enclosed piece of electronics,
    but in this receiver, it appears to be a part of the main
    circuit board - the two original (and now extended) cables from
    the BSR turntable stylus/arm are soldered right onto the circuit
    board, and go who-knows-where - presumably, into components
    which make up this receiver's "phone preamp" section.)

    (THIS may /also/ be a good moment to mention that while I have
    had some disastrous luck with simple things and astoundingly
    good luck with complicated things, I am NOT a technician, and do
    not own an oscilloscope - I check connections with two gator
    clips connected to a 1.5V battery with a flashlight bulb, and
    after over 30 years of "considering it", I finally bought a five
    dollar "voltmeter" which /appears/ to work - I found out a cheap
    110V/22V AC/DC adapter outputs 25VDC when set to 12V output
    [when the input voltage is set to 110V] and 12.5VDC from its 9V
    setting [when the input voltage is set to 110V (it is 110V
    here)]. The Sony turntable (originally a component of a system,
    with a tiny power connector which plugs into the back of the
    main system unit and where I found out 12VDC is output) is
    running on a supposedly "regulated" fancy Radio Shack AC/DC
    adapter which puts out 11.8V DC. (When I reverse the polarity,
    the turntable spins backwards.)

    If anyone has read this far, please accept my deep thanks for
    your patience. I can't write more concisely - I realize it's an
    illness.

    Anyway - the question now is WHAT did I do to mess things up?
    Since I consider the receiver largely indestructible, I do not
    think I have *destroyed* anything, not to mention the voltages
    involved are totally minuscule and it being a solid state unit -
    as the front panel proudly states ;-) - there is little danger
    of blowing it up. Plus everything else works.

    My plan is as follows:

    1. Cut the original "BSR cartridge/turntable to the main circuit
    board" cables, strip ends.
    2. Attach gator clips to them and connect to the Sony turntable
    output cable.
    3. Hopefully, hear sound. Extend cables again, making SURE I
    don't screw up this time.

    If I hear no sound, I will connect the 4 very thin cables from
    the original BSR cartridge (I saved the cart assembly and cables
    before I saw the turntable was connected to the circuit board
    with 2 standard cables with RCA plugs) to the cut cables leading
    to the circuit board and see if I hear anything. If I do, I will
    post for more advice.

    But for now, my question is:

    If after doing all this, I still get the /same/ pink noise (NOT
    hum - strange, huh?) and get NO audio, WHAT do I do?

    Thank you /very much/ for your patience, and my apologies for
    having forgotten a crucial part of the puzzle. Further help will
    be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to see pix of the 2
    cartridges or the circuit board where the phono audio cables are
    soldered into it, I can post them to photobucket or something,
    OR a binary group if you have binaries access.

    The replies are different in every one of the 5 groups, so I
    will post this followup to each group separately. I don't really
    understand how crossposting works, since I never do it, and
    eternal september /may/ be "funny" about crossposting to boot.


    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 9, 2010
    #9
  10. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    "philo" <> wrote in
    news::

    <snip>

    > If you do not have an audio signal generator to test the
    > pre-amp... you can just put a wire to the input
    > and touch it...
    > if the pre-amp is working you should get a loud buzz or hum


    Thanks for the reply... I can't find the pre-amp (see below).

    -- Update (very long, I apologize!) --

    First of all, many thanks to all who replied. It is very much
    appreciated.

    Now for the /bad/ part.

    Something one person mentioned in his reply made me remember a
    rather *crucial* detail which I had forgotten (I am not
    completely senile yet, but I have been /incredibly/ busy for the
    last few weeks, and my brain is running out of RAM).

    It is this: BEFORE I removed the BSR turntable, I DID check to
    see whether there was AUDIO SIGNAL coming from it. There was,
    loud and clear - when I touched the stylus, it sounded like an
    earthquake. Very little "system noise", too.

    The turntable itself was "seized" - after I have (with some
    violence) managed to take it apart, I saw that the 2 main cog
    wheels of the belt-less motor were practically frozen together
    at a bizarre angle and would NOT budge. I have NO idea how that
    happened - and the 4" screwdriver shaft, 2 children's plastic
    letters with magnets, and assorted bits of 30+ year old food I
    found inside the receiver could NOT have had anything to do with
    it, either, since the BSR motor was fairly well enclosed within
    the /incredibly/ complicated mechanical design (a changer).

    Now that I have remembered this, it is obvious I screwed
    something up. I have never seen a ceramic cartridge, but I am
    99.99% positive that BOTH the BSR and the Sony (ca. 1990)
    turntable carts are magnetic. So, since I have no signal but
    weird pink noise, I must have screwed up the cables. Or do you
    think I may have destroyed the preamp?

    (This may be a good moment to mention that I am using the term
    "phono preamp" in a generic sense. I always thought a phono
    preamp might be/would be a small enclosed piece of electronics,
    but in this receiver, it appears to be a part of the main
    circuit board - the two original (and now extended) cables from
    the BSR turntable stylus/arm are soldered right onto the circuit
    board, and go who-knows-where - presumably, into components
    which make up this receiver's "phone preamp" section.)

    (THIS may /also/ be a good moment to mention that while I have
    had some disastrous luck with simple things and astoundingly
    good luck with complicated things, I am NOT a technician, and do
    not own an oscilloscope - I check connections with two gator
    clips connected to a 1.5V battery with a flashlight bulb, and
    after over 30 years of "considering it", I finally bought a five
    dollar "voltmeter" which /appears/ to work - I found out a cheap
    110V/22V AC/DC adapter outputs 25VDC when set to 12V output
    [when the input voltage is set to 110V] and 12.5VDC from its 9V
    setting [when the input voltage is set to 110V (it is 110V
    here)]. The Sony turntable (originally a component of a system,
    with a tiny power connector which plugs into the back of the
    main system unit and where I found out 12VDC is output) is
    running on a supposedly "regulated" fancy Radio Shack AC/DC
    adapter which puts out 11.8V DC. (When I reverse the polarity,
    the turntable spins backwards.)

    If anyone has read this far, please accept my deep thanks for
    your patience. I can't write more concisely - I realize it's an
    illness.

    Anyway - the question now is WHAT did I do to mess things up?
    Since I consider the receiver largely indestructible, I do not
    think I have *destroyed* anything, not to mention the voltages
    involved are totally minuscule and it being a solid state unit -
    as the front panel proudly states ;-) - there is little danger
    of blowing it up. Plus everything else works.

    My plan is as follows:

    1. Cut the original "BSR cartridge/turntable to the main circuit
    board" cables, strip ends.
    2. Attach gator clips to them and connect to the Sony turntable
    output cable.
    3. Hopefully, hear sound. Extend cables again, making SURE I
    don't screw up this time.

    If I hear no sound, I will connect the 4 very thin cables from
    the original BSR cartridge (I saved the cart assembly and cables
    before I saw the turntable was connected to the circuit board
    with 2 standard cables with RCA plugs) to the cut cables leading
    to the circuit board and see if I hear anything. If I do, I will
    post for more advice.

    But for now, my question is:

    If after doing all this, I still get the /same/ pink noise (NOT
    hum - strange, huh?) and get NO audio, WHAT do I do?

    Thank you /very much/ for your patience, and my apologies for
    having forgotten a crucial part of the puzzle. Further help will
    be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to see pix of the 2
    cartridges or the circuit board where the phono audio cables are
    soldered into it, I can post them to photobucket or something,
    OR a binary group if you have binaries access.

    The replies are different in every one of the 5 groups, so I
    will post this followup to each group separately. I don't really
    understand how crossposting works, since I never do it, and
    eternal september /may/ be "funny" about crossposting to boot.


    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 9, 2010
    #10
  11. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    "NotMe" <> wrote in
    news:i6arti$1u8$-september.org:

    <snip>

    > Been decades since I did any audio work on that sort of
    > hardware. My SWAG would be an impedance problem. Perhaps
    > an audio transformer on the input?


    Thanks for the reply. No, an impedance problem on thanatoid.
    Please see the following:

    -- Update (very long, I apologize!) --

    First of all, many thanks to all who replied. It is very much
    appreciated.

    Now for the /bad/ part.

    Something one person mentioned in his reply made me remember a
    rather *crucial* detail which I had forgotten (I am not
    completely senile yet, but I have been /incredibly/ busy for the
    last few weeks, and my brain is running out of RAM).

    It is this: BEFORE I removed the BSR turntable, I DID check to
    see whether there was AUDIO SIGNAL coming from it. There was,
    loud and clear - when I touched the stylus, it sounded like an
    earthquake. Very little "system noise", too.

    The turntable itself was "seized" - after I have (with some
    violence) managed to take it apart, I saw that the 2 main cog
    wheels of the belt-less motor were practically frozen together
    at a bizarre angle and would NOT budge. I have NO idea how that
    happened - and the 4" screwdriver shaft, 2 children's plastic
    letters with magnets, and assorted bits of 30+ year old food I
    found inside the receiver could NOT have had anything to do with
    it, either, since the BSR motor was fairly well enclosed within
    the /incredibly/ complicated mechanical design (a changer).

    Now that I have remembered this, it is obvious I screwed
    something up. I have never seen a ceramic cartridge, but I am
    99.99% positive that BOTH the BSR and the Sony (ca. 1990)
    turntable carts are magnetic. So, since I have no signal but
    weird pink noise, I must have screwed up the cables. Or do you
    think I may have destroyed the preamp?

    (This may be a good moment to mention that I am using the term
    "phono preamp" in a generic sense. I always thought a phono
    preamp might be/would be a small enclosed piece of electronics,
    but in this receiver, it appears to be a part of the main
    circuit board - the two original (and now extended) cables from
    the BSR turntable stylus/arm are soldered right onto the circuit
    board, and go who-knows-where - presumably, into components
    which make up this receiver's "phone preamp" section.)

    (THIS may /also/ be a good moment to mention that while I have
    had some disastrous luck with simple things and astoundingly
    good luck with complicated things, I am NOT a technician, and do
    not own an oscilloscope - I check connections with two gator
    clips connected to a 1.5V battery with a flashlight bulb, and
    after over 30 years of "considering it", I finally bought a five
    dollar "voltmeter" which /appears/ to work - I found out a cheap
    110V/22V AC/DC adapter outputs 25VDC when set to 12V output
    [when the input voltage is set to 110V] and 12.5VDC from its 9V
    setting [when the input voltage is set to 110V (it is 110V
    here)]. The Sony turntable (originally a component of a system,
    with a tiny power connector which plugs into the back of the
    main system unit and where I found out 12VDC is output) is
    running on a supposedly "regulated" fancy Radio Shack AC/DC
    adapter which puts out 11.8V DC. (When I reverse the polarity,
    the turntable spins backwards.)

    If anyone has read this far, please accept my deep thanks for
    your patience. I can't write more concisely - I realize it's an
    illness.

    Anyway - the question now is WHAT did I do to mess things up?
    Since I consider the receiver largely indestructible, I do not
    think I have *destroyed* anything, not to mention the voltages
    involved are totally minuscule and it being a solid state unit -
    as the front panel proudly states ;-) - there is little danger
    of blowing it up. Plus everything else works.

    My plan is as follows:

    1. Cut the original "BSR cartridge/turntable to the main circuit
    board" cables, strip ends.
    2. Attach gator clips to them and connect to the Sony turntable
    output cable.
    3. Hopefully, hear sound. Extend cables again, making SURE I
    don't screw up this time.

    If I hear no sound, I will connect the 4 very thin cables from
    the original BSR cartridge (I saved the cart assembly and cables
    before I saw the turntable was connected to the circuit board
    with 2 standard cables with RCA plugs) to the cut cables leading
    to the circuit board and see if I hear anything. If I do, I will
    post for more advice.

    But for now, my question is:

    If after doing all this, I still get the /same/ pink noise (NOT
    hum - strange, huh?) and get NO audio, WHAT do I do?

    Thank you /very much/ for your patience, and my apologies for
    having forgotten a crucial part of the puzzle. Further help will
    be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to see pix of the 2
    cartridges or the circuit board where the phono audio cables are
    soldered into it, I can post them to photobucket or something,
    OR a binary group if you have binaries access.

    The replies are different in every one of the 5 groups, so I
    will post this followup to each group separately. I don't really
    understand how crossposting works, since I never do it, and
    eternal september /may/ be "funny" about crossposting to boot.


    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 9, 2010
    #11
  12. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    BinaryBillThe Sailor@Sea++.com wrote in
    news::

    <snip>

    Thanks for your reply.

    >>Been decades since I did any audio work on that sort of
    >>hardware. My SWAG would be an impedance problem. Perhaps
    >>an audio transformer on the input?
    >>

    >
    > Why not start with the really easy and basic stuff that
    > even a non-tech can check. Their may be corrosion on the
    > little slide on connetors for the wires where they attach
    > to the phono cartridge after sitting for so many years.


    I cut those off and soldered on about 6" of additonal wire so it
    would rech out of the back of the receiver.

    <snip>

    > It could also be a bum phono cartridge. easy enough to
    > check for a buzz when yu touch those connections.


    See below.

    <snip>

    -- Update (very long, I apologize!) --

    First of all, many thanks to all who replied. It is very much
    appreciated.

    Now for the /bad/ part.

    Something one person mentioned in his reply made me remember a
    rather *crucial* detail which I had forgotten (I am not
    completely senile yet, but I have been /incredibly/ busy for the
    last few weeks, and my brain is running out of RAM).

    It is this: BEFORE I removed the BSR turntable, I DID check to
    see whether there was AUDIO SIGNAL coming from it. There was,
    loud and clear - when I touched the stylus, it sounded like an
    earthquake. Very little "system noise", too.

    The turntable itself was "seized" - after I have (with some
    violence) managed to take it apart, I saw that the 2 main cog
    wheels of the belt-less motor were practically frozen together
    at a bizarre angle and would NOT budge. I have NO idea how that
    happened - and the 4" screwdriver shaft, 2 children's plastic
    letters with magnets, and assorted bits of 30+ year old food I
    found inside the receiver could NOT have had anything to do with
    it, either, since the BSR motor was fairly well enclosed within
    the /incredibly/ complicated mechanical design (a changer).

    Now that I have remembered this, it is obvious I screwed
    something up. I have never seen a ceramic cartridge, but I am
    99.99% positive that BOTH the BSR and the Sony (ca. 1990)
    turntable carts are magnetic. So, since I have no signal but
    weird pink noise, I must have screwed up the cables. Or do you
    think I may have destroyed the preamp?

    (This may be a good moment to mention that I am using the term
    "phono preamp" in a generic sense. I always thought a phono
    preamp might be/would be a small enclosed piece of electronics,
    but in this receiver, it appears to be a part of the main
    circuit board - the two original (and now extended) cables from
    the BSR turntable stylus/arm are soldered right onto the circuit
    board, and go who-knows-where - presumably, into components
    which make up this receiver's "phone preamp" section.)

    (THIS may /also/ be a good moment to mention that while I have
    had some disastrous luck with simple things and astoundingly
    good luck with complicated things, I am NOT a technician, and do
    not own an oscilloscope - I check connections with two gator
    clips connected to a 1.5V battery with a flashlight bulb, and
    after over 30 years of "considering it", I finally bought a five
    dollar "voltmeter" which /appears/ to work - I found out a cheap
    110V/22V AC/DC adapter outputs 25VDC when set to 12V output
    [when the input voltage is set to 110V] and 12.5VDC from its 9V
    setting [when the input voltage is set to 110V (it is 110V
    here)]. The Sony turntable (originally a component of a system,
    with a tiny power connector which plugs into the back of the
    main system unit and where I found out 12VDC is output) is
    running on a supposedly "regulated" fancy Radio Shack AC/DC
    adapter which puts out 11.8V DC. (When I reverse the polarity,
    the turntable spins backwards.)

    If anyone has read this far, please accept my deep thanks for
    your patience. I can't write more concisely - I realize it's an
    illness.

    Anyway - the question now is WHAT did I do to mess things up?
    Since I consider the receiver largely indestructible, I do not
    think I have *destroyed* anything, not to mention the voltages
    involved are totally minuscule and it being a solid state unit -
    as the front panel proudly states ;-) - there is little danger
    of blowing it up. Plus everything else works.

    My plan is as follows:

    1. Cut the original "BSR cartridge/turntable to the main circuit
    board" cables, strip ends.
    2. Attach gator clips to them and connect to the Sony turntable
    output cable.
    3. Hopefully, hear sound. Extend cables again, making SURE I
    don't screw up this time.

    If I hear no sound, I will connect the 4 very thin cables from
    the original BSR cartridge (I saved the cart assembly and cables
    before I saw the turntable was connected to the circuit board
    with 2 standard cables with RCA plugs) to the cut cables leading
    to the circuit board and see if I hear anything. If I do, I will
    post for more advice.

    But for now, my question is:

    If after doing all this, I still get the /same/ pink noise (NOT
    hum - strange, huh?) and get NO audio, WHAT do I do?

    Thank you /very much/ for your patience, and my apologies for
    having forgotten a crucial part of the puzzle. Further help will
    be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to see pix of the 2
    cartridges or the circuit board where the phono audio cables are
    soldered into it, I can post them to photobucket or something,
    OR a binary group if you have binaries access.

    The replies are different in every one of the 5 groups, so I
    will post this followup to each group separately. I don't really
    understand how crossposting works, since I never do it, and
    eternal september /may/ be "funny" about crossposting to boot.



    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 9, 2010
    #12
  13. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    §ñühw¤£f <> wrote in
    news:i6asm4$18g$-september.org:

    <snip>

    >> turntable which was broken. I removed the seized
    >> turntable,

    >
    > You shoulda stopped right there. If youda fix'd that you
    > woulda had the right turntable for the rest of the system.
    >
    > SHAME ON YOU.


    Sigh. Yes, I should be killed.

    Somewhere in the following is the explanation of what was wrong
    with the BSR turntable. If YOU can tell me how I could have
    fixed it, you can have all the gory remains of it to roll around
    in, dog ;-).

    Sentence.


    -- Update (very long, I apologize!) --

    First of all, many thanks to all who replied. It is very much
    appreciated.

    Now for the /bad/ part.

    Something one person mentioned in his reply made me remember a
    rather *crucial* detail which I had forgotten (I am not
    completely senile yet, but I have been /incredibly/ busy for the
    last few weeks, and my brain is running out of RAM).

    It is this: BEFORE I removed the BSR turntable, I DID check to
    see whether there was AUDIO SIGNAL coming from it. There was,
    loud and clear - when I touched the stylus, it sounded like an
    earthquake. Very little "system noise", too.

    The turntable itself was "seized" - after I have (with some
    violence) managed to take it apart, I saw that the 2 main cog
    wheels of the belt-less motor were practically frozen together
    at a bizarre angle and would NOT budge. I have NO idea how that
    happened - and the 4" screwdriver shaft, 2 children's plastic
    letters with magnets, and assorted bits of 30+ year old food I
    found inside the receiver could NOT have had anything to do with
    it, either, since the BSR motor was fairly well enclosed within
    the /incredibly/ complicated mechanical design (a changer).

    Now that I have remembered this, it is obvious I screwed
    something up. I have never seen a ceramic cartridge, but I am
    99.99% positive that BOTH the BSR and the Sony (ca. 1990)
    turntable carts are magnetic. So, since I have no signal but
    weird pink noise, I must have screwed up the cables. Or do you
    think I may have destroyed the preamp?

    (This may be a good moment to mention that I am using the term
    "phono preamp" in a generic sense. I always thought a phono
    preamp might be/would be a small enclosed piece of electronics,
    but in this receiver, it appears to be a part of the main
    circuit board - the two original (and now extended) cables from
    the BSR turntable stylus/arm are soldered right onto the circuit
    board, and go who-knows-where - presumably, into components
    which make up this receiver's "phone preamp" section.)

    (THIS may /also/ be a good moment to mention that while I have
    had some disastrous luck with simple things and astoundingly
    good luck with complicated things, I am NOT a technician, and do
    not own an oscilloscope - I check connections with two gator
    clips connected to a 1.5V battery with a flashlight bulb, and
    after over 30 years of "considering it", I finally bought a five
    dollar "voltmeter" which /appears/ to work - I found out a cheap
    110V/22V AC/DC adapter outputs 25VDC when set to 12V output
    [when the input voltage is set to 110V] and 12.5VDC from its 9V
    setting [when the input voltage is set to 110V (it is 110V
    here)]. The Sony turntable (originally a component of a system,
    with a tiny power connector which plugs into the back of the
    main system unit and where I found out 12VDC is output) is
    running on a supposedly "regulated" fancy Radio Shack AC/DC
    adapter which puts out 11.8V DC. (When I reverse the polarity,
    the turntable spins backwards.)

    If anyone has read this far, please accept my deep thanks for
    your patience. I can't write more concisely - I realize it's an
    illness.

    Anyway - the question now is WHAT did I do to mess things up?
    Since I consider the receiver largely indestructible, I do not
    think I have *destroyed* anything, not to mention the voltages
    involved are totally minuscule and it being a solid state unit -
    as the front panel proudly states ;-) - there is little danger
    of blowing it up. Plus everything else works.

    My plan is as follows:

    1. Cut the original "BSR cartridge/turntable to the main circuit
    board" cables, strip ends.
    2. Attach gator clips to them and connect to the Sony turntable
    output cable.
    3. Hopefully, hear sound. Extend cables again, making SURE I
    don't screw up this time.

    If I hear no sound, I will connect the 4 very thin cables from
    the original BSR cartridge (I saved the cart assembly and cables
    before I saw the turntable was connected to the circuit board
    with 2 standard cables with RCA plugs) to the cut cables leading
    to the circuit board and see if I hear anything. If I do, I will
    post for more advice.

    But for now, my question is:

    If after doing all this, I still get the /same/ pink noise (NOT
    hum - strange, huh?) and get NO audio, WHAT do I do?

    Thank you /very much/ for your patience, and my apologies for
    having forgotten a crucial part of the puzzle. Further help will
    be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to see pix of the 2
    cartridges or the circuit board where the phono audio cables are
    soldered into it, I can post them to photobucket or something,
    OR a binary group if you have binaries access.

    The replies are different in every one of the 5 groups, so I
    will post this followup to each group separately. I don't really
    understand how crossposting works, since I never do it, and
    eternal september /may/ be "funny" about crossposting to boot.



    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 9, 2010
    #13
  14. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    joevan <> wrote in
    news::

    > How about some industrial contact cleaner on all
    > connections.


    Thanks for the reply. I did that. Someone in another group just
    said he is almost certain the Sharp units of that vintage used
    ceramic cartridges, which would explain /everything/.

    All the gory details:

    -- Update (very long, I apologize!) --

    First of all, many thanks to all who replied. It is very much
    appreciated.

    Now for the /bad/ part.

    Something one person mentioned in his reply made me remember a
    rather *crucial* detail which I had forgotten (I am not
    completely senile yet, but I have been /incredibly/ busy for the
    last few weeks, and my brain is running out of RAM).

    It is this: BEFORE I removed the BSR turntable, I DID check to
    see whether there was AUDIO SIGNAL coming from it. There was,
    loud and clear - when I touched the stylus, it sounded like an
    earthquake. Very little "system noise", too.

    The turntable itself was "seized" - after I have (with some
    violence) managed to take it apart, I saw that the 2 main cog
    wheels of the belt-less motor were practically frozen together
    at a bizarre angle and would NOT budge. I have NO idea how that
    happened - and the 4" screwdriver shaft, 2 children's plastic
    letters with magnets, and assorted bits of 30+ year old food I
    found inside the receiver could NOT have had anything to do with
    it, either, since the BSR motor was fairly well enclosed within
    the /incredibly/ complicated mechanical design (a changer).

    Now that I have remembered this, it is obvious I screwed
    something up. I have never seen a ceramic cartridge, but I am
    99.99% positive that BOTH the BSR and the Sony (ca. 1990)
    turntable carts are magnetic. So, since I have no signal but
    weird pink noise, I must have screwed up the cables. Or do you
    think I may have destroyed the preamp?

    (This may be a good moment to mention that I am using the term
    "phono preamp" in a generic sense. I always thought a phono
    preamp might be/would be a small enclosed piece of electronics,
    but in this receiver, it appears to be a part of the main
    circuit board - the two original (and now extended) cables from
    the BSR turntable stylus/arm are soldered right onto the circuit
    board, and go who-knows-where - presumably, into components
    which make up this receiver's "phone preamp" section.)

    (THIS may /also/ be a good moment to mention that while I have
    had some disastrous luck with simple things and astoundingly
    good luck with complicated things, I am NOT a technician, and do
    not own an oscilloscope - I check connections with two gator
    clips connected to a 1.5V battery with a flashlight bulb, and
    after over 30 years of "considering it", I finally bought a five
    dollar "voltmeter" which /appears/ to work - I found out a cheap
    110V/22V AC/DC adapter outputs 25VDC when set to 12V output
    [when the input voltage is set to 110V] and 12.5VDC from its 9V
    setting [when the input voltage is set to 110V (it is 110V
    here)]. The Sony turntable (originally a component of a system,
    with a tiny power connector which plugs into the back of the
    main system unit and where I found out 12VDC is output) is
    running on a supposedly "regulated" fancy Radio Shack AC/DC
    adapter which puts out 11.8V DC. (When I reverse the polarity,
    the turntable spins backwards.)

    If anyone has read this far, please accept my deep thanks for
    your patience. I can't write more concisely - I realize it's an
    illness.

    Anyway - the question now is WHAT did I do to mess things up?
    Since I consider the receiver largely indestructible, I do not
    think I have *destroyed* anything, not to mention the voltages
    involved are totally minuscule and it being a solid state unit -
    as the front panel proudly states ;-) - there is little danger
    of blowing it up. Plus everything else works.

    My plan is as follows:

    1. Cut the original "BSR cartridge/turntable to the main circuit
    board" cables, strip ends.
    2. Attach gator clips to them and connect to the Sony turntable
    output cable.
    3. Hopefully, hear sound. Extend cables again, making SURE I
    don't screw up this time.

    If I hear no sound, I will connect the 4 very thin cables from
    the original BSR cartridge (I saved the cart assembly and cables
    before I saw the turntable was connected to the circuit board
    with 2 standard cables with RCA plugs) to the cut cables leading
    to the circuit board and see if I hear anything. If I do, I will
    post for more advice.

    But for now, my question is:

    If after doing all this, I still get the /same/ pink noise (NOT
    hum - strange, huh?) and get NO audio, WHAT do I do?

    Thank you /very much/ for your patience, and my apologies for
    having forgotten a crucial part of the puzzle. Further help will
    be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to see pix of the 2
    cartridges or the circuit board where the phono audio cables are
    soldered into it, I can post them to photobucket or something,
    OR a binary group if you have binaries access.

    The replies are different in every one of the 5 groups, so I
    will post this followup to each group separately. I don't really
    understand how crossposting works, since I never do it, and
    eternal september /may/ be "funny" about crossposting to boot.



    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 9, 2010
    #14
  15. On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:39:21 -0400, joevan <>
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:22:25 -0400, BinaryBillThe Sailor@Sea++.com
    >wrote:
    >


    >How about some industrial contact cleaner on all connections.


    Sometimes that can do more harm than good. Especially when dealing
    with very old plastic parts.

    Probably not required to get it working, either.
    BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com, Sep 9, 2010
    #15
  16. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Re: Phono preamp RESOLVED - ***AND*** SHORT!!!!-

    The fucking BSR cartridge is ceramic. I had forgotten such
    things were ever manufactured. I saved the cartridge before
    destroying the BSR tt, and just tested it. Sigh. Perfect. (For
    finger on needle, NG for playing records of course...)

    So now I have to buy a new stylus, and figure out how to attach
    the BSR cart housing to a Sony tt. Or not, and just use it as a
    super cool retro AM/line in system.


    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 10, 2010
    #16
  17. Re: Phono preamp RESOLVED - ***AND*** SHORT!!!!-

    thanatoid wrote:
    > The fucking BSR cartridge is ceramic. I had forgotten such
    > things were ever manufactured. I saved the cartridge before
    > destroying the BSR tt, and just tested it. Sigh. Perfect. (For
    > finger on needle, NG for playing records of course...)
    >
    > So now I have to buy a new stylus, and figure out how to attach
    > the BSR cart housing to a Sony tt. Or not, and just use it as a
    > super cool retro AM/line in system.
    >
    >

    HOT GLUE

    HTH

    --
    www.skepticalscience.com|www.youtube.com/officialpeta
    cageprisoners.com|www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.eyeonpalin.org
    _____ ____ ____ __ /\_/\ __ _ ______ _____
    / __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \ \ __\
    _\ \/ / /_/ / _ / \ / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\ _\
    /___/_/|_/\____/_//_/ \_@_/ \__|\__|\____/\____\_\
    §ñühw¤£f, Sep 10, 2010
    #17
  18. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Re: Phono preamp RESOLVED - ***AND*** SHORT!!!!-

    §ñühw¤£f <> wrote in
    news:i6dffv$94i$-september.org:

    > thanatoid wrote:
    >> The fucking BSR cartridge is ceramic. I had forgotten such
    >> things were ever manufactured. I saved the cartridge
    >> before destroying the BSR tt, and just tested it. Sigh.
    >> Perfect. (For finger on needle, NG for playing records of
    >> course...)
    >>
    >> So now I have to buy a new stylus, and figure out how to
    >> attach the BSR cart housing to a Sony tt. Or not, and just
    >> use it as a super cool retro AM/line in system.
    >>
    >>

    > HOT GLUE
    >
    > HTH


    Thanks for the laugh first thing in them morning after a
    horrible nightmare about a former coworker etc etc etc
    (thanatoids sometimes live in a dream reality but visit Usenet
    reality to bother people).

    It's not a problem sticking them together, but rather assembling
    them to /some/ semblance of angular correctness. But I MAY not
    have though of hot glue, so thanks. I usually like double (foam
    layer inside) tape of varying thicknesses and/or layers stacked
    together if necessary.

    I am still "learning" to remember I have a hot glue gun.



    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 10, 2010
    #18
  19. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Re: Phono preamp RESOLVED - ***AND*** SHORT!!!!-

    §ñühw¤£f <>
    wrote in news:i6f1uf$99j$:

    <snip>

    > I still think yer a good candidate for an ayahusca trip.
    >
    > <nods>


    /shakes head in a variety of directions/

    What's an ayahusca trip? Is this where I go into the woods
    naked, with 1 razor blade?

    > Duct tape: the handymans secret weapon.


    Professional Gaffer Tape: thanatoids' secret weapon.



    --
    Any mental activity is easy if it need not be subjected to
    reality.
    thanatoid, Sep 11, 2010
    #19
  20. thanatoid

    philo Guest

    Re: Phono preamp RESOLVED - ***AND*** SHORT!!!!-

    On 09/10/2010 12:04 AM, thanatoid wrote:
    > The fucking BSR cartridge is ceramic. I had forgotten such
    > things were ever manufactured. I saved the cartridge before
    > destroying the BSR tt, and just tested it. Sigh. Perfect. (For
    > finger on needle, NG for playing records of course...)
    >
    > So now I have to buy a new stylus, and figure out how to attach
    > the BSR cart housing to a Sony tt. Or not, and just use it as a
    > super cool retro AM/line in system.
    >
    >



    see if your pre-amplifier has a switch to change it from
    ceramic to magnetic.

    Otherwise...if are are very careful
    you should be able to put the ceramic cartridge in your working turn table
    philo, Sep 11, 2010
    #20
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