Phone Line Quality ... a few questions. ???

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by David_nj_7@mailbolt.com, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I have had problems on and off with my phone line. They have been out
    to the area on more than one occasion recently because of various
    issues including no dial-tone to a loud HUMMING noise that defeinitly
    interfered with my dial-up connection.

    Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    reasons. My questions are as follows. Assuming that problems causing
    this are not in my apartment com[plex, and I've been told by a few of
    the techs that it isn't, does the phone company have an obligation to
    give me a CLEAR phone line? What about connection speeds? Normally, I
    connect at between 48-53 bps but when the HUM is happening it ranges
    anywhere from 12-24 bps, which is slooooower than you can imagine.

    Are there any federal "minimum" standards that I am entitled to with my
    phone service? I can still talk on the phone, but the hum is present
    and it's effecting my PC big time.

    Thanks in advance.

    D.
    , Oct 7, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mike Easter Guest

    wrote:
    > I have had problems on and off with my phone line. They have been out


    Where 'They' would be some phoneco?

    > to the area on more than one occasion recently because of various
    > issues including no dial-tone to a loud HUMMING noise that defeinitly
    > interfered with my dial-up connection.
    >
    > Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    > reasons. My questions are as follows. Assuming that problems causing
    > this are not in my apartment com[plex,


    Why would you assume /that/?

    > and I've been told by a few of
    > the techs that it isn't,


    Do you mean to say that some tech has told you that there aren't
    documented /complaints/ from others in the complex? Which isn't the
    same thing as 'problems causing this are not in my apartment complex'.

    > does the phone company have an obligation to
    > give me a CLEAR phone line?


    By what definition of 'clear phone line'? You are 'entitled' to some
    attention or troubleshooting to [try to] provide you with 'adequate'
    voice service. Unless you are paying for a dataline, you are not
    entitled to attention or troubleshooting for your data
    transmission/reception problems.

    > What about connection speeds?


    Connection speeds are attached to data transmission which you definitely
    don't want to be complaining about to the phoneco. They won't be paying
    any attention to that.

    > Normally,
    > I connect at between 48-53 bps but when the HUM is happening it ranges
    > anywhere from 12-24 bps, which is slooooower than you can imagine.


    Of course. That is some serious line noise. The condition of line
    noise is an impairment of voice quality as well and needs some decent
    troubleshooting. It is tricky to get the phoneco to do that, as it can
    be tedious and costly.

    > Are there any federal "minimum" standards that I am entitled to with
    > my phone service?


    The PUC has oversight about the telco's responsibilities for voice. The
    telco has no data transmission responsibilities to you or the PUC
    oversight process.

    > I can still talk on the phone, but the hum is
    > present and it's effecting my PC big time.


    I don't think you are taking the right tack to getting some help for
    your problem by throwing in the face of the telco your computer and data
    transmission problems. That is the kind of problem they don't want and
    don't have to solve. You are going to have to work on your problem from
    another angle.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Oct 7, 2006
    #2
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  3. richard Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have had problems on and off with my phone line. They have been out
    > to the area on more than one occasion recently because of various
    > issues including no dial-tone to a loud HUMMING noise that defeinitly
    > interfered with my dial-up connection.
    >
    > Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    > reasons. My questions are as follows. Assuming that problems causing
    > this are not in my apartment com[plex, and I've been told by a few of
    > the techs that it isn't, does the phone company have an obligation to
    > give me a CLEAR phone line? What about connection speeds? Normally, I
    > connect at between 48-53 bps but when the HUM is happening it ranges
    > anywhere from 12-24 bps, which is slooooower than you can imagine.
    >
    > Are there any federal "minimum" standards that I am entitled to with my
    > phone service? I can still talk on the phone, but the hum is present
    > and it's effecting my PC big time.
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > D.
    >


    Have you tried replacing the lines within your residence?
    Ancient phone lines were not intended for computer use.
    Go to the point where the phone lines come in off the street. Directly
    connect a known good phone at that point.
    Hum or no hum? If no hum, ever, then it is your residential lines causing
    the problem.
    When do the hums occur? Is there a specific pattern? Could be tied to
    something from a nearby factory.
    As for standards, yes there are. The FCC says that the phone company MUST
    guarantee you no less than 19kbs.
    If you're getting 48+ consider yourself damn lucky.
    Now if you think 12 is sloooooowwwww, dude, you ain't never connected using
    a 300 baud accoustical modem.
    Does the company offer DSL? You should check into that option.
    richard, Oct 7, 2006
    #3
  4. thanatoid Guest

    wrote in
    news::

    > I have had problems on and off with my phone line. They
    > have been out to the area on more than one occasion
    > recently because of various issues including no dial-tone
    > to a loud HUMMING noise that defeinitly interfered with my
    > dial-up connection.
    >
    > Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for
    > various reasons. My questions are as follows. Assuming
    > that problems causing this are not in my apartment
    > com[plex, and I've been told by a few of the techs that it
    > isn't, does the phone company have an obligation to give me
    > a CLEAR phone line? What about connection speeds?
    > Normally, I connect at between 48-53 bps but when the HUM
    > is happening it ranges anywhere from 12-24 bps, which is
    > slooooower than you can imagine.
    >
    > Are there any federal "minimum" standards that I am
    > entitled to with my phone service? I can still talk on the
    > phone, but the hum is present and it's effecting my PC big
    > time.
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > D.
    >


    The hum must come from somewhere in your apt. building. Some
    detective work and possible rewiring/arguing with other tenants
    (SOMEONE may be doing SOMETHING that's causing it) may be in
    order.

    As a last resort you could break into the telco box in the
    basement (or wherever) and connect your line directly. But that
    would only last until the next service call from the phone co. I
    suppose.

    There may be some huge electrical device in the bsmt (boiler
    pump?) causing it. Investigate everything, especially when the
    HUM happens. I don't know if Mike's totally negative view of NO
    chance of help from the telco are correct - I think they might
    be willing to help to some extent. They have the equipment to
    find the problem, that's for sure.

    Also, are there not more than one telcos in your area? If you
    get nowhere, maybe you could try to get another contract and a
    revision of the wiring installation.
    thanatoid, Oct 7, 2006
    #4
  5. Evan Platt Guest

    On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:21:18 -0600, "richard" <> wrote:

    >Does the company offer DSL? You should check into that option.


    "Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    reasons."

    Was there a part of that not clear?
    Evan Platt, Oct 7, 2006
    #5
  6. Meat Plow Guest

    On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 11:26:44 -0700, Evan Platt Has Frothed:

    > On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:21:18 -0600, "richard" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Does the company offer DSL? You should check into that option.

    >
    > "Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    > reasons."
    >
    > Was there a part of that not clear?


    If there is hum on the phone line it will cause problems with DSL so who
    knows what St00pid was thinking when he offered up that little tidbit.

    --
    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

    COOSN-266-06-25794
    Meat Plow, Oct 7, 2006
    #6
  7. Meat Plow grumbled surlily in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    > On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 11:26:44 -0700, Evan Platt Has Frothed:
    >
    >> On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:21:18 -0600, "richard" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Does the company offer DSL? You should check into that option.

    >>
    >> "Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    >> reasons."
    >>
    >> Was there a part of that not clear?

    >
    > If there is hum on the phone line it will cause problems with DSL so who
    > knows what St00pid was thinking when he offered up that little tidbit.
    >


    St00pid's reading comprehension is almost non-existent. I'll bet if you tied
    his hands behind his back and gagged him, he couldn't read at all....

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    theoldsourdough at theoldsourdough dot com
    In the future, everyone will speak one language, but no one will speak it
    well.-George Carlin
    The Old Sourdough, Oct 7, 2006
    #7
  8. richard Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have had problems on and off with my phone line. They have been out
    > to the area on more than one occasion recently because of various
    > issues including no dial-tone to a loud HUMMING noise that defeinitly
    > interfered with my dial-up connection.
    >
    > Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    > reasons. My questions are as follows. Assuming that problems causing
    > this are not in my apartment com[plex, and I've been told by a few of
    > the techs that it isn't, does the phone company have an obligation to
    > give me a CLEAR phone line? What about connection speeds? Normally, I
    > connect at between 48-53 bps but when the HUM is happening it ranges
    > anywhere from 12-24 bps, which is slooooower than you can imagine.
    >
    > Are there any federal "minimum" standards that I am entitled to with my
    > phone service? I can still talk on the phone, but the hum is present
    > and it's effecting my PC big time.
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > D.
    >


    http://telephones.att.com/telephones_ui/support/dsp_faq_product.cfm?product_faqID=21857
    richard, Oct 7, 2006
    #8
  9. richard Guest

    "Evan Platt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:21:18 -0600, "richard" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Does the company offer DSL? You should check into that option.

    >
    > "Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    > reasons."
    >
    > Was there a part of that not clear?


    And if anyone else had made the suggestion, you'd have kept your frickin
    mouth shut.
    What part of OPTION do you fail to understand?
    richard, Oct 7, 2006
    #9
  10. Guest

    Hi... OK. For right now, all is well. I went out this afternoon and
    everything is just fine. One of the reasons I suspected the noise was
    NOT in the apartment complex is because when I reported this to the
    phone company... they CLAIMED they ran some kind of "TEST" from the
    office, which indicated the problem wasn't in my apartment or the
    complex.

    The last couple of times this has happened, they contacted VERIZON,
    which supposedly supplies the lines in this area and they sent the
    repair crews out.

    This problem has occured about 3 times in the past month. This time,
    it didn't interrupt my service... meaning, I still had a functional
    dial-tone... however my dial-up connection was only about 16bps. Right
    now... when I hover the little blinking monitor icons on the taskbar,
    it reads 49,333bps... which is what is usually is.

    Now... Here is what I hear along with the HUM. Little intermittent
    static bursts and the dial-tone is not as loud as usual, and, believe
    it or not, sometimes it sounds like it is a different PITCH, or
    frequency than it normally does. Almost like it is SLOWED DOWN or
    something.... a somewhat lower frequency... IF that makes any sense at
    all.

    I certainly hope the problem is on THEIR end. I don't have the time or
    energy to be investigating through this major complex to find the cause
    of this.

    One thing I have noticed is that every time it has happened, the
    weather has always been RAINY... and inclement.

    Thanks.... so far, so good.

    D.

    PS: Has anyone ever had a dial-tone that sounded "off-frequency" if
    you will?
    , Oct 7, 2006
    #10
  11. Evan Platt Guest

    On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 14:26:20 -0600, "richard" <> wrote:

    >And if anyone else had made the suggestion, you'd have kept your frickin
    >mouth shut.


    No, I would have said the same thing to anyone. Trust me, you're not
    special.

    But I think just about everyone else here has the brain cells you
    lack.

    >What part of OPTION do you fail to understand?


    Uhhhh yeah.
    Evan Platt, Oct 7, 2006
    #11
  12. richard grumbled surlily in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    >
    > "Evan Platt" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:21:18 -0600, "richard" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Does the company offer DSL? You should check into that option.

    >>
    >> "Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    >> reasons."
    >>
    >> Was there a part of that not clear?

    >
    > And if anyone else had made the suggestion, you'd have kept your frickin
    > mouth shut.
    > What part of OPTION do you fail to understand?
    >


    Again, what part of "I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for
    various reasons." do *you* not understand?


    --
    The Old Sourdough
    theoldsourdough at theoldsourdough dot com
    In the future, everyone will speak one language, but no one will speak it
    well.-George Carlin
    The Old Sourdough, Oct 7, 2006
    #12
  13. The Old Sourdough wrote:

    > richard grumbled surlily in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:
    >
    >> "Evan Platt" <> wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:21:18 -0600, "richard" <> wrote:
    >>>> Does the company offer DSL? You should check into that option.
    >>>
    >>> "Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    >>> reasons."
    >>>
    >>> Was there a part of that not clear?

    >>
    >> And if anyone else had made the suggestion, you'd have kept your
    >> frickin mouth shut. What part of OPTION do you fail to understand?

    >
    > Again, what part of "I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it
    > for various reasons." do *you* not understand?


    Ahhh ... (&deity; strike me *dead* for jumping in to RtS's defense but)
    the way I interpret the OP's statement is that he has a dialup internet
    service and intends on keeping it, and not adding DSL or other broadband
    service.

    However, RtS's advice *is* flawed (what else is new?) because if the
    OP's phone line is as bad as he describes ... hums ... crosstalk ..
    clicks .. DSL service would be sketchy at best as it naturally would use
    the same bad hunk of wire.

    If I were the OP, I would call the phone phactory and demand a new pair
    from the C.O. to the building. (But that's just me, a retired phone
    phactory worker.)

    Yes, it happened to me just a few weeks ago. Loads of hum and crackling
    at the house. Called the trouble number. Guy came round, climbed pole.
    Switched pair with guy in C.O. No more hum. (though I use cable
    broadband so it didn't interfere with my internet service)

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Oct 7, 2006
    #13
  14. enlightened us 24hoursupport.helpdesk-(ab)users
    with:

    ......
    > I certainly hope the problem is on THEIR end. I don't have the time
    > or energy to be investigating through this major complex to find the
    > cause of this.
    >
    > One thing I have noticed is that every time it has happened, the
    > weather has always been RAINY... and inclement.
    >

    That makes me remember ... back in the late 90's with dialup in the
    rural, got deceasing data rates dropping down to 9600bps over time, and
    then dialtone ceased as well. Turned out to be a corroded connection
    (rainwater?) at the connection box outside ...

    > PS: Has anyone ever had a dial-tone that sounded "off-frequency" if
    > you will?


    That should never happen. It will let you dial timbuktu instead of your
    neighbor (most of the time you get nowhere, fortunately). Happens with
    cheap phones on your end ...
    --
    vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse found penguin patterns
    on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    Linux 2.6.17-mm1,Xorg7.1/nvidia [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]
    Walter Mautner, Oct 8, 2006
    #14
  15. Vanguard Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have had problems on and off with my phone line. They have been
    >out
    > to the area on more than one occasion recently because of various
    > issues including no dial-tone to a loud HUMMING noise that
    > defeinitly
    > interfered with my dial-up connection.
    >
    > Yes... I still have dial-up and intend on keeping it for various
    > reasons. My questions are as follows. Assuming that problems
    > causing
    > this are not in my apartment com[plex, and I've been told by a few
    > of
    > the techs that it isn't, does the phone company have an obligation
    > to
    > give me a CLEAR phone line? What about connection speeds?
    > Normally, I
    > connect at between 48-53 bps but when the HUM is happening it ranges
    > anywhere from 12-24 bps, which is slooooower than you can imagine.
    >
    > Are there any federal "minimum" standards that I am entitled to with
    > my
    > phone service? I can still talk on the phone, but the hum is
    > present
    > and it's effecting my PC big time.
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > D.
    >



    If you are paying for VOICE service from your telco then that is all
    they are required to support. You are probably not paying the high
    cost for a data-quality line, especially since you are in an apartment
    complex and are going through their PBX setup. Does their telephones
    run through an intercom (i.e., the front call box for visitors makes
    your telephone ring)? Since you are in an apartment, and if voice
    communications are usable even with noise, and because the faulty
    equipment is back in the equipment belonging to the apartment complex
    and not the telco, you may end up having to pay the telco to work on
    the apartment complex's equipment.

    All you can do is complain about the hum during voice calls because
    that is the service you are paying them for. They only need to
    support voice-quality transmission. When I was at an apartment which
    had their telephone lines run through the front-door intercom for
    visitors, I actually had to get a 2nd telephone line added to the
    apartment so that it went directly to the PBX in the basement and not
    through the intercom. When there were later problems with their PBX
    box that causes drop-outs in line availability, I had to pay for the
    service call to get a part replaced in the PBX that was faulty. When
    cable came to my complex that included Internet service, I dumped the
    telco service because it was always flaky. It's bad enough with homes
    and the low-quality of the POTS wiring and even worse in apartment
    buildings who only care about providing the minimal level of voice
    service (i.e., the same service that you are paying for).

    You'll need to keep making support calls to report the nuisance of the
    hum during voice transmission.
    Vanguard, Oct 8, 2006
    #15
  16. Evan Platt Guest

    On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 08:56:57 -0500, "Vanguard"
    <> wrote:

    >If you are paying for VOICE service from your telco then that is all
    >they are required to support.


    Umm... but RtS says the FCC requires them to guarantee you no less
    than 19kbs.
    <grin>
    Evan Platt, Oct 8, 2006
    #16
  17. Evan Platt grumbled surlily in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    > On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 08:56:57 -0500, "Vanguard"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>If you are paying for VOICE service from your telco then that is all
    >>they are required to support.

    >
    > Umm... but RtS says the FCC requires them to guarantee you no less
    > than 19kbs.
    > <grin>



    And also claims to have hit a hotspot 25 miles away. and, watches "movys", of
    what, I care not to discuss.

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    theoldsourdough at theoldsourdough dot com
    In the future, everyone will speak one language, but no one will speak it
    well.-George Carlin
    The Old Sourdough, Oct 8, 2006
    #17
  18. Vanguard Guest

    "Evan Platt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 08:56:57 -0500, "Vanguard"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>If you are paying for VOICE service from your telco then that is all
    >>they are required to support.

    >
    > Umm... but RtS says the FCC requires them to guarantee you no less
    > than 19kbs.
    > <grin>



    That doesn't mean you get a clean line with absolutely no hiss, pops,
    drop-outs, noise, cross-talk, or severe attentuation (signal loss).
    It simply has to be *usable* for voice communication. Besides, even
    if they did provide 19kbps as a clean line but then decided to cap it,
    it still would suck for modem connects. With voice, you can multiplex
    (chop up) the conversation a hell of a lot more without loss in
    understanding by humans and little perception, if any, of the
    multiplexing but it causes packet loss for data transmissions and
    resending lost packets adds delay and added delay equates to lower
    effective data rate.

    Just because it's good enough for voice doesn't mean it's good enough
    for analog data transmission. Also, once the line reaches the
    apartment's PBX, that's the end of the telco's contracted service.
    Problems in the equipment owned by the apartment complex aren't their
    concern, just like they aren't responsible for the equipment inside
    your house.
    Vanguard, Oct 8, 2006
    #18
  19. Mike Easter Guest

    Vanguard wrote:

    > Also, once the line reaches the
    > apartment's PBX, that's the end of the telco's contracted service.
    > Problems in the equipment owned by the apartment complex aren't their
    > concern, just like they aren't responsible for the equipment inside
    > your house.


    I certainly wouldn't assume that an apartment complex was using a PBX.
    That seems extremely unlikely to me from my experience with apartments'
    telco wiring. I've never seen an apartment complex which provided its
    telephone service to the individual units via PBX.

    I've seen units which had a centralized telco wiring panel and the telco
    delivered its service to that panel and the panel was wired to the
    individual units in the same building or part of the building, similar
    to the way telco/s typically wire a small office building which has
    individual business suites.

    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Oct 8, 2006
    #19
  20. Guest

    I've been on dialup for 9 LONG years. Just "upgraded" to satellite.
    It's not high speed, it's "highER" speed <g> I'm in a rural area with
    old phone lines. My connection started out at 14kpbs and at the end of
    the 9 years, had worked it's way up to 36 and even 42. Verizon is my
    telco. Don't discount your modem being part of the problem. Each time
    I bought a new computer, my connection rate increased. When my
    daughter was home from college one year and there were 2 computers in
    the house, her connection might of been 36kbps where mine was 28.8.
    Here's what I learned (according to Verizon)....they are not obligated
    to give you anything higher than 2400 (that's not a type-o)
    baud...period! These lines are meant for voice not data. When it
    rains, water can very likely get into the lines and cause the humming.
    Ants can be the culprit too. Both have been an issue with our lines
    MANY times over the 26 years we've lived here. The longer the line
    you're on, the slower your connection will be. After some
    investigation, it was found that we had like 2 miles of extra
    line/cable WAY down the road somewhere. They removed a lot of it and
    it increased my connection speed. One time they routed our line
    differently and that helped some. Also, there are modem initialization
    strings that (with some googling or help from your ISP) you can add to
    the modem's properties that can help too. With one modem, I had to try
    multiple times to dial in before connecting. A simple command fixed
    that problem and added a little speed. Luckily (or not) I live in a
    small town and the phone guys were sympathetic to my S L O W
    connection. They'd do what they could even tho they weren't obligated
    to. They're the ones that told me to not mention internet connection
    speed when I call in for a technical issue. I report loud hum and/or
    static on the line. After 26 years, I know what the problem is (ants
    or water) but have to go thru their long ordeal of "troubleshooting"
    <sigh> I'm glad the phone guys gave me the direct number to their
    little telco station here in town :)) Sure cut out all the red tape!
    But, I'm even MORE glad that I finally bit the bullet and paid that
    ungodly startup cost for satellite. $400 up front and an increase of
    $20 a month for internet service. After canceling my Cox ISP and the
    second phone line, the $60 per month charge is $20 a month more than I
    was paying for dialup/2nd phone line. When you think of what city
    dwellers pay for BLAZING fast cable, it's enough to make you sick :(
    but then they don't have fresh air, can't see the stars and don't have
    cows and horses for neighbors :) Everything is a trade-off. I used to
    download files at THREE kbs and now it averages 115kbs. I can live
    with that...till one of my city dwelling friends tell me they can
    download files at 5MBps <lol>
    Good luck,
    Monica
    , Oct 9, 2006
    #20
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    2
    Views:
    3,518
    John Wunderlich
    Jun 28, 2009
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