Pentax *ist-DS ?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Bill Tuthill, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. Bill Tuthill

    Bill Tuthill Guest

    As a Minolta shooter who's been following the D7 announcements,
    it occurred to me that I could buy a Pentax *ist D plus lenses
    for less than the announced price of the Minolta D7.

    Furthermore the *ist-D is lighter and smaller, especially heightwise,
    so it fits inside the Pelican box I use for rafting and kayaking.

    Moreover the Pentax 16-45/4 DA and 18-35/4-5.6 J lenses seem
    very attractive. They could be combined in a kit with a 300/4.5
    because all accept size 67 filters. As do the 24-90/3.5-4.5 and
    200/4 macro (which after crop factor would be a 300 equivalent).

    When is the *ist-DS supposed to arrive in stores? Although missing
    MLU and perhaps DOF preview (the latter would be a show-stopper)
    it seems fine, and weighs even less than the *ist-D.

    On the dpreview.com comparison page of the *ist-DS and *ist-D,
    what does the term "program lines" mean?

    Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?
    Bill Tuthill, Oct 21, 2004
    #1
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  2. Bill Tuthill

    Charlie Self Guest

    Bill Tuthill asks:

    >Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?


    *istD. I've had mine maybe 3-1/2 months, have shot about 2000 pix.

    Very easy to use. Two faults I can find, both tiny: the upside down insertion
    of the CF card; the flat strap holders that make it difficult to get different
    straps without some hassle (and the right side on gets in the way of closing
    the CF door).


    I'd also like to see a remote release longer than 19" or so, but that's Pentax
    AF all over, not just the *istD. I've jury rigged a Radio Shack special, but
    too often the weight of the jury rig pulls it partway loose, so the camera
    doesn't fire, something of a PITA when you're 15' away.

    Pix are maybe a shade soft coming out of the camera, but sharpen up as well as
    any I've seen.

    The camera is light and appears sturdy, though the CF door is flimsy (most of
    them seem to be).

    The 16-45 lens makes a decent 'normal' lens, even though it is very slow.

    Charlie Self
    "When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not
    hereditary." Thomas Paine
    Charlie Self, Oct 21, 2004
    #2
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  3. Bill Tuthill

    Charles Guest

    On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:17:19 -0000, Bill Tuthill <> wrote:

    >As a Minolta shooter who's been following the D7 announcements,
    >it occurred to me that I could buy a Pentax *ist D plus lenses
    >for less than the announced price of the Minolta D7.
    >
    >Furthermore the *ist-D is lighter and smaller, especially heightwise,
    >so it fits inside the Pelican box I use for rafting and kayaking.
    >
    >Moreover the Pentax 16-45/4 DA and 18-35/4-5.6 J lenses seem
    >very attractive. They could be combined in a kit with a 300/4.5
    >because all accept size 67 filters. As do the 24-90/3.5-4.5 and
    >200/4 macro (which after crop factor would be a 300 equivalent).
    >
    >When is the *ist-DS supposed to arrive in stores? Although missing
    >MLU and perhaps DOF preview (the latter would be a show-stopper)
    >it seems fine, and weighs even less than the *ist-D.
    >
    >On the dpreview.com comparison page of the *ist-DS and *ist-D,
    >what does the term "program lines" mean?
    >
    >Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?



    Only thing I have to offer, don't buy it without handling it first.
    It's small, my hands are too big and clumsy for it.
    --

    - Charles
    -
    -does not play well with others
    Charles, Oct 21, 2004
    #3
  4. Bill Tuthill

    Alan Browne Guest

    Bill Tuthill wrote:

    > As a Minolta shooter who's been following the D7 announcements,
    > it occurred to me that I could buy a Pentax *ist D plus lenses
    > for less than the announced price of the Minolta D7.


    er, don't you have Minolta lenses too? Really want to split systems?

    (And, really, the street price will eventually collapse).

    > On the dpreview.com comparison page of the *ist-DS and *ist-D,
    > what does the term "program lines" mean?


    Link? I can't find it.
    >
    > Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?


    If you're going to maintain two systems, maybe your diital system should be the
    Olympus E-1...?

    Cheers,
    Alan


    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
    Alan Browne, Oct 21, 2004
    #4
  5. Bill Tuthill

    Owamanga Guest

    On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:31:27 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >Bill Tuthill wrote:
    >
    >> As a Minolta shooter who's been following the D7 announcements,
    >> it occurred to me that I could buy a Pentax *ist D plus lenses
    >> for less than the announced price of the Minolta D7.

    >
    >er, don't you have Minolta lenses too? Really want to split systems?
    >
    >(And, really, the street price will eventually collapse).
    >
    >> On the dpreview.com comparison page of the *ist-DS and *ist-D,
    >> what does the term "program lines" mean?

    >
    >Link? I can't find it.
    >>
    >> Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?

    >
    >If you're going to maintain two systems, maybe your diital system should be the
    >Olympus E-1...?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Alan


    ...and a medium format enlarger and an underwater flash.

    --
    Owamanga!
    Owamanga, Oct 21, 2004
    #5
  6. Bill Tuthill

    Gaderian Guest

    Bill Tuthill wrote:
    >
    > Moreover the Pentax 16-45/4 DA and 18-35/4-5.6 J lenses seem
    > very attractive. They could be combined in a kit with a 300/4.5
    > because all accept size 67 filters. As do the 24-90/3.5-4.5 and
    > 200/4 macro (which after crop factor would be a 300 equivalent).
    >
    > When is the *ist-DS supposed to arrive in stores? Although missing
    > MLU and perhaps DOF preview (the latter would be a show-stopper)
    > it seems fine, and weighs even less than the *ist-D.
    >
    > On the dpreview.com comparison page of the *ist-DS and *ist-D,
    > what does the term "program lines" mean?
    >
    > Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?


    I bought the *istD about 3 months ago and love it after about 1500+
    pictures. My main decision for buying it was the fact I own 3 other Pentax
    lenses that work perfectly and I had already bought the AF360FGZ flash that
    Pentax is recommending for this camera.

    These are the only 2 cons I found so far:
    1. As already mentioned, the CF card can be a little difficult to eject if
    you have a strap on your camera but all I do is turn the camera sideways
    then it slides out okay.
    2. There is a new firmware update for this model. If you screw up the
    process, the camera will not work and you have to take the camera to Pentax.
    I had no problems during the upgrade but the process requires fully charged
    batteries or the optional AC adapter. The firmware update should be done
    for a recent purchase but check before you buy.

    I've bought the optional battery grip which allows 4 more batteries and for
    me it makes it slightly larger and easier to handle with my hands. I
    presently use 4 CR-V3 batteries in the camera body and 4 lithium in the
    grip. So far the battery indicator is showing fully charged after all of
    the photo's I've taken, BUT I do use the external flash most of the time if
    a flash is required. This camera will use any type of AA batteries but I'm
    sticking to lithium or better as a personal preference.

    I highly recommend the Pentax AF360FGZ flash unit for the *istD for all of
    the features but it's very expensive $300.00 CAD. However I tried my older
    AF220T which also worked fine but I must admit, I'm really spoiled with the
    AF360FGZ.

    Anyhow my 2 cents worth.
    Gaderian, Oct 21, 2004
    #6
  7. Bill Tuthill

    Bandicoot Guest

    "Bill Tuthill" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > As a Minolta shooter who's been following the D7 announcements,
    > it occurred to me that I could buy a Pentax *ist D plus lenses
    > for less than the announced price of the Minolta D7.
    >
    > Furthermore the *ist-D is lighter and smaller, especially heightwise,
    > so it fits inside the Pelican box I use for rafting and kayaking.
    >
    > Moreover the Pentax 16-45/4 DA and 18-35/4-5.6 J lenses seem
    > very attractive. They could be combined in a kit with a 300/4.5
    > because all accept size 67 filters. As do the 24-90/3.5-4.5 and
    > 200/4 macro (which after crop factor would be a 300 equivalent).


    You haven't asked for info. on these lens choices, so I'm not going to spout
    any just now - but if you want it...

    (Those 200 and 300 choices are _awesome_ though.)

    >
    > When is the *ist-DS supposed to arrive in stores? Although missing
    > MLU and perhaps DOF preview (the latter would be a show-stopper)
    > it seems fine, and weighs even less than the *ist-D.
    >
    > On the dpreview.com comparison page of the *ist-DS and *ist-D,
    > what does the term "program lines" mean?


    I don't know 100% for sure in the context of the *ist-DS, but I can tell you
    what it means for an MZ-S and the other Pentax bodies I know of that use
    that terminology, so I expect it is the same:

    In 'program' mode the body is metering and then sets both a shutter speed
    _and_ an aperture to fit the measured exposure (you knew that already)
    which means that for almost any given meter reading there are lots of
    different combinations of which speed and which aperture it will select. A
    graph could be drawn with a line that would show which combination would be
    chosen for any given measured exposure requirement. That is the "Program
    Line".

    Now, on the MZ-S there is more than one program line available, and you can
    choose which the camera follows. The choices (on that body) are:

    one that will always set as high a shutter speed as possible given the
    available maximum aperture of the lens. Presumably good for sports or to
    force shallow DoF;

    one that will always set the smallest possible aperture - not sure if this
    begins to close the aperture down as speeds get really long or not;

    one - specially for gear heads and geeks - that reads data passed to it from
    the attached lens (assuming it is of new enough design that it passes this
    data) to determine the aperture that the lens has the best MTF score at;

    and the defaault. The default seems to aim for mid-range apertures (not
    sure if this takes the MTF data into account or not, it may well do) but
    also takes focal length data from the lens, including the actual FL (in a
    series of steps) that a zoom is zoomed to, and then opens up as necessary to
    try to keep the speed to better than one over the FL. So, for example, with
    a 200mm f2.8 it will keep the aperture at about f5.6 or 6.7 as light
    decreases until the necessary shutter speed reaches 1/180, at which point,
    as the light falls further, it will open the aperture till it hits f2.8, and
    only then will it lengthen the speed any further.

    I have a feeling that the *ist digitals may also have some of those
    'portrait', 'landscape', 'closeup', 'sports' etc. "modes" that a lot of
    consumer SLRs have,which to an extent might duplicate or substitute for some
    of these choices. The advantage of using one of the program lines over one
    of the "modes" is that you know exactly what the camera is going to do. Of
    course, all that pre-supposes that you ever use it in program anyway.

    I do use the MZ-S in program - sort of - quite often. This is because there
    is a wheel right by the thumb that shifts you up and down the program line:
    so if I'm working fast in the sort of situatoin where I would be following
    the built in meter anyway (with or without some compensation applied) , I
    can just see the program's 'recommendation' in the viewfinder and either
    accept it or shift up or down the line as I wish to arrive at my prefered
    aperture/speed combination. This is faster in rapidly changing light than
    aperture or shutter priority alone, since you never get into that position
    where the chosen aperture or speeds is suddenly to much / little for the
    available speeds / apertures (if you see what I mean). There's also a
    little button that at one push will take you straight back to the program's
    'recommended' combination, which is also good when working fast. Not that I
    do work fast very often...

    >
    > Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?
    >


    No specific experience here though - but do check they aren't _too_ small
    for your hands. Compact size is good for most things, but some people find
    them too small for their hands (though my hands are large yet a *ist film
    feels fine - but then I'm used to Pentax who've always made compact bodies
    compared to other manufacturers.)



    Peter
    Bandicoot, Oct 21, 2004
    #7
  8. Bill Tuthill

    Mark Roberts Guest

    otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

    >Bill Tuthill asks:
    >
    >>Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?

    >
    >*istD. I've had mine maybe 3-1/2 months, have shot about 2000 pix.
    >
    >Very easy to use. Two faults I can find, both tiny: the upside down insertion
    >of the CF card; the flat strap holders that make it difficult to get different
    >straps without some hassle (and the right side on gets in the way of closing
    >the CF door).


    Yep. I have the same complaint. Fortunately, with the prices of memory
    cards coming down so drastically, I don't have to remove the card very
    often now :)

    >I'd also like to see a remote release longer than 19" or so, but that's Pentax
    >AF all over, not just the *istD. I've jury rigged a Radio Shack special, but
    >too often the weight of the jury rig pulls it partway loose, so the camera
    >doesn't fire, something of a PITA when you're 15' away.


    I have the IR remote. It's the way to go.

    >Pix are maybe a shade soft coming out of the camera, but sharpen up as well as
    >any I've seen.
    >
    >The camera is light and appears sturdy, though the CF door is flimsy (most of
    >them seem to be).


    My ist-D has been kicked around quite a bit and hasn't missed a beat
    yet. It does feel very solid.

    >The 16-45 lens makes a decent 'normal' lens, even though it is very slow.


    I'm considering the new Tamron 17-35mm f/ 2.8-4 as it will work on my
    film cameras as well. Hoping to make it a Christmas present to myself.

    --
    Mark Roberts
    Photography and writing
    www.robertstech.com
    Mark Roberts, Oct 21, 2004
    #8
  9. Bill Tuthill

    Charlie Self Guest

    Gaderian notes:

    >
    >I bought the *istD about 3 months ago and love it after about 1500+
    >pictures. My main decision for buying it was the fact I own 3 other Pentax
    >lenses that work perfectly and I had already bought the AF360FGZ flash that
    >Pentax is recommending for this camera.
    >
    >These are the only 2 cons I found so far:
    >1. As already mentioned, the CF card can be a little difficult to eject if
    >you have a strap on your camera but all I do is turn the camera sideways
    >then it slides out okay.

    Yes. But I use my *istD on a tripod close to 90% of the time, so it's a real
    nuisance to turn it on its side.

    >2. There is a new firmware update for this model. If you screw up the
    >process, the camera will not work and you have to take the camera to Pentax.
    >I had no problems during the upgrade but the process requires fully charged
    >batteries or the optional AC adapter. The firmware update should be done
    >for a recent purchase but check before you buy.
    >


    First I've heard of that. I'll have to check the Pentax site.

    >I've bought the optional battery grip which allows 4 more batteries and for
    >me it makes it slightly larger and easier to handle with my hands. I
    >presently use 4 CR-V3 batteries in the camera body and 4 lithium in the
    >grip. So far the battery indicator is showing fully charged after all of
    >the photo's I've taken, BUT I do use the external flash most of the time if
    >a flash is required. This camera will use any type of AA batteries but I'm
    >sticking to lithium or better as a personal preference.
    >


    Whew. I got over 1200 shots on my first set of lithium CR-V3s. I may be getting
    close to 1000 on the second set. I have trouble imagining the need for extra
    batteries, but I don't use the on-camera flash very often, and will use it less
    shortly.


    Charlie Self
    "When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not
    hereditary." Thomas Paine
    Charlie Self, Oct 21, 2004
    #9
  10. Bill Tuthill

    Charlie Self Guest

    Mark Roberts remarks:

    >I'm considering the new Tamron 17-35mm f/ 2.8-4 as it will work on my
    >film cameras as well. Hoping to make it a Christmas present to myself


    Hmmm. No. Not a good idea. I have a feeling photographic Xmas presents for me
    this year had best be left up to someone else. New camera. Extra lens. Bunch of
    filters. New studio flash unit, stand, wheels, softbox, plus some other stuff
    I'm forgetting plus...well, it just ain't safe to add to that before maybe
    March 1.

    Charlie Self
    "When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not
    hereditary." Thomas Paine
    Charlie Self, Oct 22, 2004
    #10
  11. Bill Tuthill

    Harvey Guest

    Is it just me or does pentax take the golden award for the most stupid model
    ever given to a camera???
    >
    Harvey, Oct 22, 2004
    #11
  12. Bill Tuthill

    Charlie Self Guest

    Harvey asks:

    >Is it just me or does pentax take the golden award for the most stupid model
    >ever given to a camera?


    It's not just you.

    Great camera, moronic name. Might be an ad slogan there.

    Charlie Self
    "When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not
    hereditary." Thomas Paine
    Charlie Self, Oct 22, 2004
    #12
  13. Bill Tuthill

    Apteryx Guest

    "Harvey" <> wrote in message
    news:cQXdd.901$...
    >
    > Is it just me or does pentax take the golden award for the most stupid

    model
    > ever given to a camera???


    I just assumed that whoever named it was *issed as a #ewt when he did
    it.

    --
    Apteryx
    Treat anger like gold. Spend it wisely or not at all.
    Apteryx, Oct 22, 2004
    #13
  14. I was told by Pentax Canada today, the * ist DS will start shipping next
    week, at least in Canada. Camera with kit lens is CDN $1,300


    "Bill Tuthill" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > As a Minolta shooter who's been following the D7 announcements,
    > it occurred to me that I could buy a Pentax *ist D plus lenses
    > for less than the announced price of the Minolta D7.
    >
    > Furthermore the *ist-D is lighter and smaller, especially heightwise,
    > so it fits inside the Pelican box I use for rafting and kayaking.
    >
    > Moreover the Pentax 16-45/4 DA and 18-35/4-5.6 J lenses seem
    > very attractive. They could be combined in a kit with a 300/4.5
    > because all accept size 67 filters. As do the 24-90/3.5-4.5 and
    > 200/4 macro (which after crop factor would be a 300 equivalent).
    >
    > When is the *ist-DS supposed to arrive in stores? Although missing
    > MLU and perhaps DOF preview (the latter would be a show-stopper)
    > it seems fine, and weighs even less than the *ist-D.
    >
    > On the dpreview.com comparison page of the *ist-DS and *ist-D,
    > what does the term "program lines" mean?
    >
    > Any general remarks about the worthiness of the *ist-DS or *ist-D?
    >



    ---

    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004
    Darrell Larose, Oct 22, 2004
    #14
  15. "Apteryx" <> wrote in message
    news:7QYdd.917$...
    > "Harvey" <> wrote in message
    > news:cQXdd.901$...
    > >
    > > Is it just me or does pentax take the golden award for the most stupid

    > model
    > > ever given to a camera???

    >
    > I just assumed that whoever named it was *issed as a #ewt when he did
    > it.
    >

    hmmm, Digital Rebel is called Digital Kiss in Japan ;)




    ---

    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004
    Darrell Larose, Oct 22, 2004
    #15
  16. Bill Tuthill

    Bandicoot Guest

    "Gaderian" <> wrote in message
    news:JlWdd.27817$...
    [SNIP]
    > I highly recommend the Pentax AF360FGZ flash unit for the *istD for all of
    > the features but it's very expensive $300.00 CAD. However I tried my

    older
    > AF220T which also worked fine but I must admit, I'm really spoiled with

    the
    > AF360FGZ.


    I use that flash (and some others) with my MZ-S, for which it has the same
    dedication as it does with the *ist-D, and can second that opinion: it is a
    very good flash.


    Peter
    Bandicoot, Oct 22, 2004
    #16
  17. Bill Tuthill

    Mark Roberts Guest

    otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

    >Gaderian notes:
    >>
    >>These are the only 2 cons I found so far:
    >>1. As already mentioned, the CF card can be a little difficult to eject if
    >>you have a strap on your camera but all I do is turn the camera sideways
    >>then it slides out okay.

    >Yes. But I use my *istD on a tripod close to 90% of the time, so it's a real
    >nuisance to turn it on its side.


    I wonder if they changed something part way through production of this
    camera. My CD card practically jumps out when I push the eject button. I
    sometimes have to catch it in mid-air.

    --
    Mark Roberts
    Photography and writing
    www.robertstech.com
    Mark Roberts, Oct 22, 2004
    #17
  18. Bill Tuthill

    Bill Tuthill Guest

    In rec.photo.equipment.35mm Alan Browne <> wrote:
    >
    >> As a Minolta shooter who's been following the D7 announcements,
    >> it occurred to me that I could buy a Pentax *ist D plus lenses
    >> for less than the announced price of the Minolta D7.

    >
    > er, don't you have Minolta lenses too? Really want to split systems?


    I don't have that much money invested in Minolta lenses, and the great
    24-50/4 becomes a relatively unattractive 36-75/4 with the D7 anyway.
    That was my most expensive lens purchase; everything else I bought used.

    >> On the dpreview.com comparison page of the *ist-DS and *ist-D,
    >> what does the term "program lines" mean?

    >
    > Link? I can't find it.


    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxistds/

    > If you're going to maintain two systems, maybe your digital system
    > should be the Olympus E-1...?


    If you compare sizes and weights, you'll see that the new Olympus E300
    is larger and heavier than the Pentax *ist-D, much less *ist-DS. Also
    I'm not fond of the 4/3 screen ratio-- it's not even semi-panoramic.
    Bill Tuthill, Oct 22, 2004
    #18
  19. Bill Tuthill

    Matt White Guest

    Harvey wrote:

    >
    > Is it just me or does pentax take the golden award for the most stupid
    > model ever given to a camera???


    I once asked a Pentax sales rep. about the model name when he dropped by my
    workplace. He seemed very embarrassed about it. He said it was about being
    a camera for artists, scientists, hobbyists, etc. etc. leading to the *ist
    name. (For the non-geeks here, "*" basically means "anything" in computer
    jargon.) From his tone of voice he didn't believe the explanation himself,
    and dropped hints that some marketing twit was responsible for it and that
    the engineers and salespeople were very annoyed about it all.

    All rumour and hearsay, but that's all I know. Also, it apparently rhymes
    with something very rude in French, but my coworkers just smirk and never
    tell me exactly what.

    - Matt
    Matt White, Oct 22, 2004
    #19
  20. Bill Tuthill

    Bill Tuthill Guest

    In rec.photo.equipment.35mm Gaderian <> wrote:
    >
    > I bought the *istD about 3 months ago and love it after 1500+ pictures...


    Thanks for your 2 cents worth, Gaderian!

    > Con 1. As already mentioned, the CF card can be a little difficult to eject
    > if you have a strap on your camera but all I do is turn the camera sideways
    > then it slides out okay.


    Remember the incident many months back when a digical camera was blown up
    when on a tripod too near to a bridge demolition? The photographer claimed
    he lost over $5000 of equipment, including SD memory card. Some wag said
    "How could any camera that takes SD be worth $5000, with any possible lens?"

    The Pentax *ist DS takes SD instad of CF memory cards.

    > I've bought the optional battery grip which allows 4 more batteries and
    > for me it makes it slightly larger and easier to handle with my hands.


    Does the battery holder double as vertical grip? I have not yet seen
    a picture of it.

    > I highly recommend the Pentax AF360FGZ flash unit for the *istD for all of
    > the features but it's very expensive $300.00 CAD. However I tried my older
    > AF220T which also worked fine but I must admit, I'm really spoiled with the
    > AF360FGZ.


    Oddly enough, despite all the propaganda about the Nikon flash system, Canon
    E-TTL, and Minolta wireless, a study in Amateur Photographer (some time ago)
    showed that Pentax systems produced the most accurate flash exposures.
    Bill Tuthill, Oct 22, 2004
    #20
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    Pentax Digital ist and manual Pentax lenses

    Denny B, Dec 11, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    22
    Views:
    1,075
    Denny B
    Dec 15, 2005
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