Pentax *ist DS versus 300D

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rene Schmidt, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. Rene Schmidt

    Rene Schmidt Guest

    I know this is the kind of question that invites all sorts of comments, but
    nevertheless I dare it.

    I can get the DS for 1000 ? in a shop and for maybe 800 ? in the Internet,
    the 300D for 700 ? in the shop. Both equipped with a 18-55 lens. I know
    about the obvious differences in size and card format. I like the compact
    size of the DS more and I opt for SD cards, since I already have two 512 MB
    cards for my Pentax Optio 550. I have an old Sigma 28-200 for the EOS 300,
    which would probably fit on the 300D. But all that is not decisive on the
    long run.

    So what do YOU think is the better camera in terms of handling, picture
    noise and quality, auto focus, speed and robustness? Can give me any advice
    to think about?

    Rene
     
    Rene Schmidt, Mar 15, 2005
    #1
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  2. Rene Schmidt

    Guest

    Rene Schmidt <> wrote:
    : I know this is the kind of question that invites all sorts of comments, but
    : nevertheless I dare it.

    : I can get the DS for 1000 ? in a shop and for maybe 800 ? in the Internet,
    : the 300D for 700 ? in the shop. Both equipped with a 18-55 lens. I know
    : about the obvious differences in size and card format. I like the compact
    : size of the DS more and I opt for SD cards, since I already have two 512 MB
    : cards for my Pentax Optio 550. I have an old Sigma 28-200 for the EOS 300,
    : which would probably fit on the 300D. But all that is not decisive on the
    : long run.

    : So what do YOU think is the better camera in terms of handling, picture
    : noise and quality, auto focus, speed and robustness? Can give me any advice
    : to think about?

    I just finally bought one (after a few years of waiting for a DSLR at
    reasonable prices that was compatible with my 35mm). Your dollar amounts seem
    reasonable.

    To those that suggest that the Pentax isn't a professional camera, they're
    correct. It's also correct to say that comparable brand C and N cameras are also not
    professional. While many may dismiss brand P as a toy simply because no professional
    lenses are available for it, I say that normal people can't afford them anyway so it's
    a moot point. I'd say that the compatibility with quite old lenses and their
    associated low cost is a huge plus for P vs. C. Mid-range lenses (read: affordable
    for mortals) are available for all.

    From what I understand, the image quality is pretty much the same between
    the brands, so that's not really an issue to get your panties in a wad about. About
    the memory format, the CF snobs need to get over it. They're just too big to be
    useable in all digital doodads (cell phones, PDAs, mp3 players, etc), so SD is the new
    ubiquitous standard. They're already pretty much equal in cost and availability.

    For batteries, I still say that *standards* are a good thing. Having my
    external flash and camera using the same batteries I could potentially buy at
    Quik-E-Mart is a big plus to proprietary ones.

    For build quality, from what I've read the Pentax with its SS subframe is a
    lot more solid than the 300D. It also uses a pentaprism vs. pentamirror so the
    viewfinder is supposedly brighter.

    Anyway, you can tell where my opinions lie. To each there own... everything
    *I personally* feel important can easily be of no importance to others.... flame on.

    -Cory

    --

    *************************************************************************
    * Cory Papenfuss *
    * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
    * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
    *************************************************************************
     
    , Mar 15, 2005
    #2
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  3. Rene Schmidt

    Guest

    Rene Schmidt wrote:

    <snip>

    > So what do YOU think is the better camera in terms of handling,

    picture
    > noise and quality, auto focus, speed and robustness? Can give me any

    advice
    > to think about?


    The SD versus CF is a minor issue on point on shoot cameras, a bit more
    of an issue on D-SLRs due to the large capacity CF cards that are
    available. The *istDs is the ONLY D-SLR that does not use Compact
    Flash. Still, this is a minor issue, it just means that you need more
    SD cards.

    The biggest thing favoring the EOS-300D or EOS-350D is image quality
    and low noise. Another issue with the *istDs is the poor selection of
    lenses, especially super wide angle zoom.

    The *istDs may be a good choice if you have a bunch of compatible
    Pentax lenses, and a good deal at less than $800, though the Canon
    EOS-350D and Nikon D70 are superior choices in the same price range.

    The *istDs doesn't have an available vertical grip, but that may not be
    an issue for you.

    You may want to wait a couple of weeks for the the EOS-350D. Even if
    you decide on the EOS-300D, once the EOS-350D is out, the EOS-300D
    price is sure to fall.

    Check out "http://digitalslrinfo.com/" .
     
    , Mar 15, 2005
    #3
  4. To me, the *ist DS using SD cards is a major drawback. The mad rush to
    SD-cards by camera makers--especially in a D-SLR--is totally absurd. That
    said, since you already own SD-cards, that makes a difference.

    To "papenfuss"--we so-called "CF snobs" are NOT going to get over it. The
    thing of it is, the camera makers are being "SD snobs," cramming SD down our
    throats in everthing--including in places like D-SLRs where it clearly isn't
    needed.

    But, the SD vs CF issue aside, the issues for me are this.

    The *ist DS does not have program shift, which is a silly drawback in a
    modern SLR. I rarely use P-mode, but it is handy at times--and to not be
    able to shift aperture/shutter speed combinations in P-mode is silly. Even
    cheap 35mm SLRs like the Nikon N55--which is as basic as 35mm SLRs get these
    days--has program shift.

    Also, things like white balance, ISO speed, flash exposure compensation, AF
    mode and quality of image have to be changed in the menus, while other
    D-SLRs including the 300D allow you to change these quickly without having
    to enter the menus. This is particularly the case if you install the "Wasia
    firmware" in the 300D, as the 300D actually won't have flash-exposure
    compensation at all otherwise, and would also require you (as the *ist DS)
    to use the menus to change the image quality.

    Image quality is about the same between both as I understand it. I think the
    AF-speed of the 300D is a bit quicker.

    I think the 28-200 lens that you already own can be a factor, but a bigger
    factor would be other lenses that you would acquire in the long run. I do
    like Pentax, but the "big boys" like Canon & Nikon have more lenses and
    other accessories available for them, a big factor for a D-SLR.

    I'd opt for the 300D myself. Ignoring the SD/CF issue (I prefer CF, but you
    own SD already), the having to enter menus to change settings which the 300D
    & other D-SLRs allow you to change much quicker without menu-itis and lack
    of program shift--those make the 300D prefereable. Just make sure you
    install the "Wasia firmware" to obtain a lot of features that the 300D
    wouldn't have--enough so that I'd opt for the Pentax instead even with the
    SD/CF issue.

    LRH
     
    Larry R Harrison Jr, Mar 15, 2005
    #4
  5. Why not get the Canon 350D (Rebel XT) without a lens and keep your 28-200
    lens? Or maybe get it with the lens anyways since it's only $100 more. It
    has alot of feature upgrades over the 300D.


    "Rene Schmidt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I know this is the kind of question that invites all sorts of comments,

    but
    > nevertheless I dare it.
    >
    > I can get the DS for 1000 ? in a shop and for maybe 800 ? in the Internet,
    > the 300D for 700 ? in the shop. Both equipped with a 18-55 lens. I know
    > about the obvious differences in size and card format. I like the compact
    > size of the DS more and I opt for SD cards, since I already have two 512

    MB
    > cards for my Pentax Optio 550. I have an old Sigma 28-200 for the EOS 300,
    > which would probably fit on the 300D. But all that is not decisive on the
    > long run.
    >
    > So what do YOU think is the better camera in terms of handling, picture
    > noise and quality, auto focus, speed and robustness? Can give me any

    advice
    > to think about?
    >
    > Rene
    >
    >
     
    hotchkisstrio, Mar 15, 2005
    #5
  6. Rene Schmidt

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    <> wrote:

    > To those that suggest that the Pentax isn't a professional camera, they're
    > correct.


    Cameras aren't professional. The people who use cameras can be
    professional. And even people who use Pentax *istDs can be professional
    photographers.
     
    Paul Mitchum, Mar 15, 2005
    #6
  7. Rene Schmidt

    Guest

    Larry R Harrison Jr <> wrote:
    : To me, the *ist DS using SD cards is a major drawback. The mad rush to
    : SD-cards by camera makers--especially in a D-SLR--is totally absurd. That
    : said, since you already own SD-cards, that makes a difference.

    : To "papenfuss"--we so-called "CF snobs" are NOT going to get over it. The
    : thing of it is, the camera makers are being "SD snobs," cramming SD down our
    : throats in everthing--including in places like D-SLRs where it clearly isn't
    : needed.

    I'm sure I would feel the same if I'd invested lots of money in the past for
    CF cards. I was mostly protesting those who emphatically argue that if it doesn't
    take CF, it's a dead-end piece of crap. Bottom line is if one is jumping into digital
    *now*, CF vs SD is not a deciding factor. In the OP's case, he already has SD, so I
    would consider that an edge. At least a $60-$100 edge, anyway. My point is that
    newer doodads other than DSLRs will be embracing the smaller, equally inexpensive SD
    media. Just like the AA argument, getting something that's generic and useful for
    things *besides* the camera is a big bonus. Yes, CF will (likely) always be
    availably in larger capacities since they're physically larger. For someone not on
    the bleeding edge, however, waiting for the next generation to get 8GB that'll work in
    *all* their doodads vs. a 16GB one that will only work in their DSLR is probably not
    that big of a deal.

    If I had an investment in CF, I'd definately avoid the Pentax DS in lieu of
    something else.

    : But, the SD vs CF issue aside, the issues for me are this.

    : The *ist DS does not have program shift, which is a silly drawback in a
    : modern SLR. I rarely use P-mode, but it is handy at times--and to not be
    : able to shift aperture/shutter speed combinations in P-mode is silly. Even
    : cheap 35mm SLRs like the Nikon N55--which is as basic as 35mm SLRs get these
    : days--has program shift.

    I'll definately agree with this. I must admit of probably a bit optimistic as
    I use open-source computing and flashable products. I don't see a "firmware issue" as
    part of the product. Realistically, I'll get burned on this (since I doubt they'll
    make a change like that). Camera manufacturers are much more of the mindset, "Here's
    our product, deal with it and if you don't like it, buy the next model." IIRC the
    Canon Powershot G3 I used had equally stupid lack of menu shift and lack of RAW
    metering with a flash. Lots of these usability issues are (un)learned behavior.

    : Also, things like white balance, ISO speed, flash exposure compensation, AF
    : mode and quality of image have to be changed in the menus, while other
    : D-SLRs including the 300D allow you to change these quickly without having
    : to enter the menus. This is particularly the case if you install the "Wasia
    : firmware" in the 300D, as the 300D actually won't have flash-exposure
    : compensation at all otherwise, and would also require you (as the *ist DS)
    : to use the menus to change the image quality.

    True enough. I would argue that some settings like white balance don't
    necessary need to be at fingertip grasp for instant change. It's generally a setting
    at the beginning of a set of photos. If you're a novice, you'll set it at auto and be
    happy. If you're more advanced, you'll probably shoot RAW where it doesn't matter.

    : I think the 28-200 lens that you already own can be a factor, but a bigger
    : factor would be other lenses that you would acquire in the long run. I do
    : like Pentax, but the "big boys" like Canon & Nikon have more lenses and
    : other accessories available for them, a big factor for a D-SLR.

    Absolutely. Many of the accessories available for the "big boys" are either
    unwanted, unnecessary, or too expensive for many casual shooters. I know I won't be
    blowing $1500 on a fancy IS lens anytime soon. For me it's more fun to blow $100-$200
    a pop on quality, old glass.

    To each their own... I knew responding to this post would be fun... :)

    -Cory

    *************************************************************************
    * Cory Papenfuss *
    * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
    * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
    *************************************************************************
     
    , Mar 15, 2005
    #7
  8. Rene Schmidt

    Ben Thomas Guest

    Larry R Harrison Jr wrote:
    > To me, the *ist DS using SD cards is a major drawback. The mad rush to
    > SD-cards by camera makers--especially in a D-SLR--is totally absurd. That
    > said, since you already own SD-cards, that makes a difference.
    >
    > To "papenfuss"--we so-called "CF snobs" are NOT going to get over it. The
    > thing of it is, the camera makers are being "SD snobs," cramming SD down our
    > throats in everthing--including in places like D-SLRs where it clearly isn't
    > needed.
    >
    > But, the SD vs CF issue aside, the issues for me are this.
    >
    > The *ist DS does not have program shift, which is a silly drawback in a
    > modern SLR. I rarely use P-mode, but it is handy at times--and to not be
    > able to shift aperture/shutter speed combinations in P-mode is silly. Even
    > cheap 35mm SLRs like the Nikon N55--which is as basic as 35mm SLRs get these
    > days--has program shift.


    My previous digital and Nikon D70 don't allow you to change aperture or shutter
    speed in P mode. Makes sense to me. If you want to change the aperture, use A
    mode, and if you want to change shutter speed, use S mode. What's the point of
    being able to change them in P mode?

    Ben
     
    Ben Thomas, Mar 15, 2005
    #8
  9. "Ben Thomas" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > My previous digital and Nikon D70 don't allow you to change aperture or
    > shutter speed in P mode. Makes sense to me. If you want to change the
    > aperture, use A mode, and if you want to change shutter speed, use S mode.
    > What's the point of being able to change them in P mode?
    >
    > Ben
    >


    Hmm, according to the Dpreview.Com review of the D70, you **can** "shift"
    aperture/shutter speeds in program mode.

    I do sort of hear what you're saying; the Av (A) and Tv (S) modes are the
    most "serious" modes besides manual, it makes perfect sense they'd be the
    ones to use for serious shooting not P. But there are a couple of reasons
    why having shiftable values in P is a good thing, and both reasons are based
    on these two words--extreme values.

    Extreme values meaning--say, f/2.8 in aperture-priority outdoors in
    bright-light, 1/4000 second shutter-speed indoors.

    One, my wife uses P a lot because she's more of a "point & shooter," and by
    using P I'm assured that she will get a more "middling" combination but yet
    she does at least have the option of changing the aperture/shutter-speed
    combination. With Av (A) or Tv (S), there's too much of a chance of an
    "extreme" number being the last one used, and her not having the forsight to
    shift the number; with P, this doesn't happen, but then if she DOES remember
    she can still "shift" as needed.

    Two, if you're in a hurry to shoot something that's transpiring very
    quickly, P is best because in Av (A) or Tv (S) you may have an "extreme"
    value as your last setting which won't work (say, 1/4000 second indoors, or
    f/2.8 outdoors), requiring you to spend that extra second or two "shifting"
    the numbers so you don't under or over-expose. In P-mode, you don't have
    that--BUT, if you end up finding yourself with an extra second or two to
    change the numbers, you can still do it--without going back to Av
    (aperture-priority) or Tv (shutter-priority) mode.

    Really, more than anything else, the main thing about the *ist Ds omitting
    "flexible" program is simply that practically every other modern SLR--35mm
    or D-SLR--has this, so why not them? Even professional cameras like the
    Nikon F5 or Nikon D1x--hardly point & shoot material--have it. Why not this
    one?

    LRH
     
    Larry R Harrison Jr, Mar 15, 2005
    #9
  10. <> wrote in message
    news:d17hmh$dnv$...

    > Absolutely. Many of the accessories available for the "big boys" are
    > either
    > unwanted, unnecessary, or too expensive for many casual shooters. I know
    > I won't be
    > blowing $1500 on a fancy IS lens anytime soon. For me it's more fun to
    > blow $100-$200
    > a pop on quality, old glass.
    >

    Oh, I hear you there. With my 300D I first got their 80-200 f/4.6-5.6II
    lens--one that a lot of Canon shooters like--and only paid $90 for it with a
    52mm UV filter & lens hood. Then I found myself wishing for more reach, got
    an older Canon 75-300mm f/4-5.6 lens (about a 1992 model), only $85 for it,
    slightly used. That, and I have the 18-55 "kit" lens. So it shows you MY
    dedication to expensive accessories (hee hee).

    But at least--I have the OPTION to do this, if I ever become so inclined.
    The other thing--when I see fine lenses for sale at websites like Fred
    Miranda--lenses like the highly-regarded Sigma 70-300 APO Super Macro
    II--they almost always are Canon-mount or Nikon-mount. Of course if you buy
    new it doesn't matter--but when looking at places like Fred Miranda for
    good, low-priced used material--you find very little Pentax material. And
    that's too bad--because, again, I do like Pentax.

    LRH
     
    Larry R Harrison Jr, Mar 15, 2005
    #10
  11. Rene Schmidt

    Rene Schmidt Guest

    Thanks for all this answers.

    It boils down to the following: Both camaras are equally priced (since
    I had to buy at least 1 GB of CF for the 300D) and of equal picture
    quality. Everyone likes the handling, look and feel of the Pentax.
    But the 300D has more availabe lenses in mid price range and also this
    program shift. (The CF versus SD discussion is beyond me. I'd prefer
    SD, but don't care if I had to use CF. And forget my old 28-200. It is
    not good enough.)

    About the program shift: I have one on my 300, and guess, I never used
    it. If I prefer some specific time or aperture, which I often do, I
    use other modes anyway. So this may not be an issue for me.

    I'll have to study other technical details, I am more insterested in.
    One is a following auto focus, which the Pentax seems to have, but
    only in one of the program modes. Others are flash handling (daylight
    flash), and how it works on both cameras. Things like that.

    Then, of course, it is always a good idea to wait. But as some will
    understand, I do not want to.

    Anyway, thanks to all.
     
    Rene Schmidt, Mar 16, 2005
    #11
  12. Rene Schmidt

    Pete D Guest

    "Larry R Harrison Jr" <> wrote in message
    news:_fJZd.71646$Tt.1586@fed1read05...
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:d17hmh$dnv$...
    >
    >> Absolutely. Many of the accessories available for the "big boys" are
    >> either
    >> unwanted, unnecessary, or too expensive for many casual shooters. I know
    >> I won't be
    >> blowing $1500 on a fancy IS lens anytime soon. For me it's more fun to
    >> blow $100-$200
    >> a pop on quality, old glass.
    >>

    > Oh, I hear you there. With my 300D I first got their 80-200 f/4.6-5.6II
    > lens--one that a lot of Canon shooters like--and only paid $90 for it with
    > a 52mm UV filter & lens hood. Then I found myself wishing for more reach,
    > got an older Canon 75-300mm f/4-5.6 lens (about a 1992 model), only $85
    > for it, slightly used. That, and I have the 18-55 "kit" lens. So it shows
    > you MY dedication to expensive accessories (hee hee).
    >
    > But at least--I have the OPTION to do this, if I ever become so inclined.
    > The other thing--when I see fine lenses for sale at websites like Fred
    > Miranda--lenses like the highly-regarded Sigma 70-300 APO Super Macro
    > II--they almost always are Canon-mount or Nikon-mount. Of course if you
    > buy new it doesn't matter--but when looking at places like Fred Miranda
    > for good, low-priced used material--you find very little Pentax material.
    > And that's too bad--because, again, I do like Pentax.
    >
    > LRH


    Same lenses are available for the DS, at the same prices.
     
    Pete D, Mar 16, 2005
    #12
  13. Rene Schmidt

    Pete D Guest

    "Paul Mitchum" <0m> wrote in message
    news:1gtgsqo.10hqyje1ydl834N%0m...
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> To those that suggest that the Pentax isn't a professional camera,
    >> they're
    >> correct.

    >
    > Cameras aren't professional. The people who use cameras can be
    > professional. And even people who use Pentax *istDs can be professional
    > photographers.


    No way, who'd have thought it and in a Canon group??? ;-D
     
    Pete D, Mar 16, 2005
    #13
  14. Rene Schmidt

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Pete D <> wrote:

    > "Paul Mitchum" <0m> wrote in message
    > news:1gtgsqo.10hqyje1ydl834N%0m...
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> To those that suggest that the Pentax isn't a professional camera,
    > >> they're correct.

    > >
    > > Cameras aren't professional. The people who use cameras can be
    > > professional. And even people who use Pentax *istDs can be professional
    > > photographers.

    >
    > No way, who'd have thought it and in a Canon group??? ;-D


    This isn't a Canon group. It says 'rec.photo.digital' in my newsreader.
    :)
     
    Paul Mitchum, Mar 16, 2005
    #14
  15. Rene Schmidt

    Pete D Guest

    "Rene Schmidt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for all this answers.
    >
    > It boils down to the following: Both camaras are equally priced (since
    > I had to buy at least 1 GB of CF for the 300D) and of equal picture
    > quality. Everyone likes the handling, look and feel of the Pentax.
    > But the 300D has more availabe lenses in mid price range and also this
    > program shift. (The CF versus SD discussion is beyond me. I'd prefer
    > SD, but don't care if I had to use CF. And forget my old 28-200. It is
    > not good enough.)


    How many lenses do you actually need, one or two, have you researched that
    yourself for either camera, the Sigma APO lenses are available equally for
    both cameras, there are more for Canons but more people are looking for
    them, if you know what I mean. There is also many 50mm fast primes at cheap
    prices for both, I got a manual 50mm F2.0 for $6.05.
     
    Pete D, Mar 16, 2005
    #15
  16. wrote in news:1110912231.055769.188130
    @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

    > Rene Schmidt wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >> So what do YOU think is the better camera in terms of handling,

    > picture
    >> noise and quality, auto focus, speed and robustness? Can give me any

    > advice
    >> to think about?

    >
    > The SD versus CF is a minor issue on point on shoot cameras, a bit more
    > of an issue on D-SLRs due to the large capacity CF cards that are
    > available. The *istDs is the ONLY D-SLR that does not use Compact
    > Flash. Still, this is a minor issue, it just means that you need more
    > SD cards.
    >
    > The biggest thing favoring the EOS-300D or EOS-350D is image quality
    > and low noise. Another issue with the *istDs is the poor selection of
    > lenses, especially super wide angle zoom.


    Pentax have now got a DA 12-24 f4 - does that make you happier to
    recommend them? And the noise situation between the 300D and the D70,
    Minolta 7D, *ist D/Ds is pretty much a wash - they're identical on print
    out, just have different qualities of noise visible at 100% on screen and
    different default parameters which affect the noise visibility.

    > The *istDs may be a good choice if you have a bunch of compatible
    > Pentax lenses, and a good deal at less than $800, though the Canon
    > EOS-350D and Nikon D70 are superior choices in the same price range.


    At the other end of the price range: they're more expensive cameras (a
    cheap lens or two more).

    > The *istDs doesn't have an available vertical grip, but that may not be
    > an issue for you.
    >
    > You may want to wait a couple of weeks for the the EOS-350D. Even if
    > you decide on the EOS-300D, once the EOS-350D is out, the EOS-300D
    > price is sure to fall.


    As will the Pentax *ist Ds and Olympus E-300 prices - they track the 300D
    price down.

    > Check out "http://digitalslrinfo.com/" .


    Please update it about the DA 12-24 f4.

    --Sophie
     
    Sophie Wilson, Mar 16, 2005
    #16
  17. Rene Schmidt

    Pete D Guest

    "Paul Mitchum" <0m> wrote in message
    news:1gthpug.qsmqaraf592N%0m...
    > Pete D <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Paul Mitchum" <0m> wrote in message
    >> news:1gtgsqo.10hqyje1ydl834N%0m...
    >> > <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> To those that suggest that the Pentax isn't a professional camera,
    >> >> they're correct.
    >> >
    >> > Cameras aren't professional. The people who use cameras can be
    >> > professional. And even people who use Pentax *istDs can be professional
    >> > photographers.

    >>
    >> No way, who'd have thought it and in a Canon group??? ;-D

    >
    > This isn't a Canon group. It says 'rec.photo.digital' in my newsreader.
    > :)


    OMG OMG OMG, mine too!!
     
    Pete D, Mar 16, 2005
    #17
  18. "Rene Schmidt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for all this answers.
    >
    > It boils down to the following: Both camaras are equally priced (since
    > I had to buy at least 1 GB of CF for the 300D) and of equal picture
    > quality. Everyone likes the handling, look and feel of the Pentax.
    > But the 300D has more availabe lenses in mid price range and also this
    > program shift. (The CF versus SD discussion is beyond me. I'd prefer
    > SD, but don't care if I had to use CF. And forget my old 28-200. It is
    > not good enough.)
    >
    > About the program shift: I have one on my 300, and guess, I never used
    > it. If I prefer some specific time or aperture, which I often do, I
    > use other modes anyway. So this may not be an issue for me.
    >
    > I'll have to study other technical details, I am more insterested in.
    > One is a following auto focus, which the Pentax seems to have, but
    > only in one of the program modes. Others are flash handling (daylight
    > flash), and how it works on both cameras. Things like that.
    >
    > Then, of course, it is always a good idea to wait. But as some will
    > understand, I do not want to.
    >
    > Anyway, thanks to all.


    You mentioned "following auto focus." I take that to mean that you're
    referring to "servo" or "continuous" autofocus, which tracks moving subjects
    and updates the autofocus continuously as it moves--for birds in flight,
    football players, etc.

    If that is what you are referring to, then yes--the Pentax *ist Ds and the
    Canon 300D only have this in the special "dummy" modes which a typical D-SLR
    user isn't going to want to use--because it fixes the aperture/shutter speed
    combination (and many other things) that you otherwise have control over.
    The 300D has this in the "sports" mode (which looks like someone running),
    the Pentax *ist Ds is apt to have a similar mode and that would be where you
    find it.

    Note: sometimes the 300D will go into "continuous" mode if the subject is
    moving at the time you initiate the autofocus, and I'd imagine the Pentax
    does also--but that is not a substitute for being able to specifically
    select "continuous" or "servo" autofocus specifically.

    If you need this, the new Digitial Rebel XT (350D) or the Nikon D70 are
    other D-SLRs which DO have "follow focus" specifically available on command
    when you need it. All of these options (thank God--in my opinion anyway) are
    all Compact Flash cameras. (As for CF vs SD--most of us who don't like the
    Pentax doing SD this is because it's "normal" for a D-SLR to use CF--or at
    least offer both as the more expensive Canons do--and Pentax's usage of SD
    exclusively is for most of us kind of curious, if not totally wrong flatout.
    But if you have no problem with it--and most of the objective reviewers
    haven't--then don't worry about it.)

    As for flash--I'd imagine the Canon 300D & Pentax *ist Ds are equally
    capable. One potential fatal flaw of the 300D is that, unless you install
    the "Wasia firmware," it will not have flash-exposure compensation available
    unless you have a hot-shoe flash which has this itself. With daylight "fill
    flash" it's common to apply about -1 EV flash exposure compensation for a
    more "natural" look. The Pentax DOES have this available, flat-out. On the
    other hand, if you do install the "Wasia firmware," the 300D gives you flash
    exposure compensation--and you don't have to enter into the menus to use it
    (it's quickly accessed using the JUMP button), whereas the Pentax requires
    you to use the menus to use it. The Canon 350D has FEC and I'm not sure how
    it's used, but it has it outright. The Nikon D70 also has it outright--and
    it doesn't require you to go into the menus.

    Speaking of flash--the flash system of the Nikon D70 is well renowned. It
    has i-TTL flash, and I'm told it works great in particular if you try a
    multi-flash wireless setup, it really handles it great. I am not sure how
    the 300D, 350D, or Pentax would handle it--but I hear many great things
    about how the Nikon D70 does.

    Hope this helps,
    LRH
     
    Larry R Harrison Jr, Mar 16, 2005
    #18
  19. "Sophie Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns961B66B163528sophiewilson@130.133.1.4...

    >
    > Please update it about the DA 12-24 f4.


    Okay. It was just announced yesterday. I have added a note to my site, and
    removed "limited lens selection" as an issue.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Mar 16, 2005
    #19
  20. Rene Schmidt

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Steven M. Scharf <> wrote:

    > "Sophie Wilson" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns961B66B163528sophiewilson@130.133.1.4...
    >
    > > Please update it about the DA 12-24 f4.

    >
    > Okay. It was just announced yesterday. I have added a note to my site, and
    > removed "limited lens selection" as an issue.


    'Limited lens selection??' What are you smoking? :)

    You can put pretty much *any* k-mount lens on the *ist D/Ds, from all
    the way back to the '70s, along with M42 and Pentax medium format
    lenses, with adaptors, which takes you back into the '60s. I regularly
    shoot with an SMCP-M 50mm/2 lens from 1979, that I got at a thrift store
    for $6 (well, $12... It came attached to a Pentax MV). Makes lovely
    portraits, and I actually enjoy switching all the settings to manual.

    There's no limited lens selection for the *ist D/Ds. Everything's
    covered, since you aren't stuck with the DA lens line. And you can use
    beautiful old glass if you want to. That Pentax isn't speedy about
    producing new lenses is not a problem; you can find a not-so-brand-new
    lens to fit your needs, and maybe exceed your expectation.
     
    Paul Mitchum, Mar 16, 2005
    #20
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