Pentax ist DL or Canon 350D

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Peter, Aug 10, 2005.

  1. Peter

    Peter Guest

    The Pentax is 6.1mp and 1/3 cheaper than the 8 mp Canon is it worth paying
    the extra or would the Pentax suffice?
    Thanks...
     
    Peter, Aug 10, 2005
    #1
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  2. Peter

    Guest

    You should consider that whichever camera you choose; the camera body
    is a replacible component, and that, in effect, you are buying into a
    lineup of lenses.

    It is my belief that right now, Canon has the better short term lens
    line up and every possibility of having a better long term lens lineup.
    These lenses end up costing more than the camera if you go anywhere
    near the prosumer or professional lenses and collect a full range of
    focal lengths.

    So, look over and become familiar with the entire lineup of lenses from
    all manufactures that you would consider buying a dSLR from before
    making the choice of the camera itslef.
     
    , Aug 10, 2005
    #2
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  3. Peter

    Chris Brooks Guest

    Hi,

    As a recent purchaser of the Canon DR XT I would like to second this. After
    comparing products for a solid couple of weeks it became apparent that
    Nikon/Canon are safer just as far as getting lenses (and testing lenses in
    my local shops!). Plus they both have lenses that work on their higher end
    DSLRs (so the body is really replaceable), and their new lenses are making a
    commitment to the form factor they already have (e.g. the EF-S lenses).

    Chris

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You should consider that whichever camera you choose; the camera body
    > is a replacible component, and that, in effect, you are buying into a
    > lineup of lenses.
    >
    > It is my belief that right now, Canon has the better short term lens
    > line up and every possibility of having a better long term lens lineup.
    > These lenses end up costing more than the camera if you go anywhere
    > near the prosumer or professional lenses and collect a full range of
    > focal lengths.
    >
    > So, look over and become familiar with the entire lineup of lenses from
    > all manufactures that you would consider buying a dSLR from before
    > making the choice of the camera itslef.
    >
     
    Chris Brooks, Aug 11, 2005
    #3
  4. Peter

    JD Guest

    So does Pentax. And you can use ALL Pentax former lenses from years back on
    ALL Pentax models (not possible on other brands as far as I know). See:

    http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/

    and also:

    http://themotec.com/photo/plensesexplained.htm
    http://www.phred.org/pentax/lensgal/
    http://www.photodo.com/prod/lens/pentax.shtml#Pentax
    http://www.photodo.com/nav/prodindex.html

    Jean.


    Plus they both have lenses that work on their higher end
    > DSLRs (so the body is really replaceable), and their new lenses are making
    > a commitment to the form factor they already have (e.g. the EF-S lenses).
    >
    > Chris
    >
     
    JD, Aug 11, 2005
    #4
  5. Peter

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Paul Mitchum, Aug 11, 2005
    #5
  6. Peter

    Pete D Guest

    "Paul Mitchum" <0m> wrote in message
    news:1h13arq.941i1f117v6ioN%0m...
    > JD <> wrote:
    >
    >> So does Pentax. And you can use ALL Pentax former lenses from years back
    >> on
    >> ALL Pentax models (not possible on other brands as far as I know). See:
    >>
    >> http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/
    >>
    >> and also:
    >>
    >> http://themotec.com/photo/plensesexplained.htm
    >> http://www.phred.org/pentax/lensgal/
    >> http://www.photodo.com/prod/lens/pentax.shtml#Pentax
    >> http://www.photodo.com/nav/prodindex.html

    >
    > Also:
    >
    > <http://stans-photography.info/>


    And go for the Ds not the Dl.
     
    Pete D, Aug 11, 2005
    #6
  7. Peter

    Charlie Self Guest

    wrote:
    > You should consider that whichever camera you choose; the camera body
    > is a replacible component, and that, in effect, you are buying into a
    > lineup of lenses.
    >
    > It is my belief that right now, Canon has the better short term lens
    > line up and every possibility of having a better long term lens lineup.
    > These lenses end up costing more than the camera if you go anywhere
    > near the prosumer or professional lenses and collect a full range of
    > focal lengths.
    >
    > So, look over and become familiar with the entire lineup of lenses from
    > all manufactures that you would consider buying a dSLR from before
    > making the choice of the camera itslef.


    True, but...Pentax takes every early Pentax mount, except screw thread
    types (and there are adapters for those). I've just ordered a low cost
    16mm Zenitar fisheye for use on my *istD. It will work manually, but it
    will work. Not a real problem for me, as before I started working
    digital, I used only manual cameras, and, on the D, there's not much to
    re-set to get it right.

    Of course, the same lens is available in Nikon and Canon manual mounts,
    if those mounts will work on the current crop of digital cameras.

    It's also a good idea to remember that Pentax is sort of the ignored
    stepchild when it comes to mounts on new lenses from Tamron, Sigma and
    others. Tamron's new 11-18mm, which I want pretty badly, may not be out
    in a Pentax mount for months after the Canon and Nikon mounts hit the
    market.
     
    Charlie Self, Aug 11, 2005
    #7
  8. "Charlie Self" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > wrote:
    >> You should consider that whichever camera you choose; the camera body
    >> is a replacible component, and that, in effect, you are buying into a
    >> lineup of lenses.
    >>
    >> It is my belief that right now, Canon has the better short term lens
    >> line up and every possibility of having a better long term lens lineup.
    >> These lenses end up costing more than the camera if you go anywhere
    >> near the prosumer or professional lenses and collect a full range of
    >> focal lengths.
    >>
    >> So, look over and become familiar with the entire lineup of lenses from
    >> all manufactures that you would consider buying a dSLR from before
    >> making the choice of the camera itslef.

    >
    > True, but...Pentax takes every early Pentax mount, except screw thread
    > types (and there are adapters for those). I've just ordered a low cost
    > 16mm Zenitar fisheye for use on my *istD. It will work manually, but it
    > will work. Not a real problem for me, as before I started working
    > digital, I used only manual cameras, and, on the D, there's not much to
    > re-set to get it right.
    >
    > Of course, the same lens is available in Nikon and Canon manual mounts,
    > if those mounts will work on the current crop of digital cameras.
    >
    > It's also a good idea to remember that Pentax is sort of the ignored
    > stepchild when it comes to mounts on new lenses from Tamron, Sigma and
    > others. Tamron's new 11-18mm, which I want pretty badly, may not be out
    > in a Pentax mount for months after the Canon and Nikon mounts hit the
    > market.


    Like the 50-500 from Sigma? Why is the HSM version of this lens unavailable
    in Pentax mount? Something to do with the AF motor design being different
    than on the Canon and Nikons, right?
     
    Dave R knows who, Aug 11, 2005
    #8
  9. Peter

    Guest

    Dave R knows who wrote:
    > "Charlie Self" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > wrote:

    <snip>
    > > It's also a good idea to remember that Pentax is sort of the ignored
    > > stepchild when it comes to mounts on new lenses from Tamron, Sigma and
    > > others. Tamron's new 11-18mm, which I want pretty badly, may not be out
    > > in a Pentax mount for months after the Canon and Nikon mounts hit the
    > > market.

    >
    > Like the 50-500 from Sigma? Why is the HSM version of this lens unavailable
    > in Pentax mount? Something to do with the AF motor design being different
    > than on the Canon and Nikons, right?


    I had a close look at my *ist-Ds and it looks like the lens focus motor
    is in the camera body.
    There is a sprocket on the K-mount flange that engages with the lens
    when the focus mode switcht is set to AF and retracts when set to MF.
    I think that Nikon and Canon both have the focus motor in the lens and
    so with each new lens you get a new motor, but with Pentax K AF lenses
    the motor (aparently) can't be changed without major surgery on the
    camera body.
     
    , Aug 12, 2005
    #9
  10. Peter

    Nick Fotis Guest

    wrote:
    >
    > I think that Nikon and Canon both have the focus motor in the lens and
    > so with each new lens you get a new motor, but with Pentax K AF lenses
    > the motor (aparently) can't be changed without major surgery on the
    > camera body.


    From what I remember, only Canon has a considerable percentage of their
    lens range with USM (Ultrasonic) motors, which are inside the lens.
    Nearly all the other camera makers (Nikon, Pentax, Minolta) with
    autofocus used a motor inside the camera body to move the lens ring.
    Now, the Nikon AF-S lenses use ultrasonic motors inside the lens, but
    this is supported in the bigger cameras.

    Example: look in http://www.jjmehta.com/products/nikonf80.html for the
    Nikon F80 description. At the specifications it mentions "Integral-motor
    autofocus 35mm single-lens reflex with electronically controlled
    focal-plane shutter and built-in Speedlight"
    Notice the "Integral-motor" part?

    A more elaborate explanation is at
    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1157640,00.asp - as you can
    read by this, only Canon (and Sigma, whose mount is derived from the EF
    mount) have no mechanical connection between the camera body and the
    lens.

    Regards from hot Athens,
    N.Fotis
     
    Nick Fotis, Aug 12, 2005
    #10
  11. Peter

    Guest

    Nick Fotis wrote:
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > I think that Nikon and Canon both have the focus motor in the lens and
    > > so with each new lens you get a new motor, but with Pentax K AF lenses
    > > the motor (aparently) can't be changed without major surgery on the
    > > camera body.

    >
    > From what I remember, only Canon has a considerable percentage of their
    > lens range with USM (Ultrasonic) motors, which are inside the lens.
    > Nearly all the other camera makers (Nikon, Pentax, Minolta) with
    > autofocus used a motor inside the camera body to move the lens ring.
    > Now, the Nikon AF-S lenses use ultrasonic motors inside the lens, but
    > this is supported in the bigger cameras.


    That is interesting.
    It also means that Pentax could do the similar thing to Nikon, such as
    putting a motor into their new lenses and (possibly) use the integral
    motor (in the camera) to control the one in the lens via the current
    mechanical linkage.
    Another possibility is that Pentax could add more electrical contacts
    to (a new improved) the K AF mount flange to control a motor in the
    lens.
     
    , Aug 14, 2005
    #11
  12. Peter

    frederick Guest

    wrote:
    > Nick Fotis wrote:
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I think that Nikon and Canon both have the focus motor in the lens and
    >>>so with each new lens you get a new motor, but with Pentax K AF lenses
    >>>the motor (aparently) can't be changed without major surgery on the
    >>>camera body.

    >>
    >>From what I remember, only Canon has a considerable percentage of their
    >>lens range with USM (Ultrasonic) motors, which are inside the lens.
    >>Nearly all the other camera makers (Nikon, Pentax, Minolta) with
    >>autofocus used a motor inside the camera body to move the lens ring.
    >>Now, the Nikon AF-S lenses use ultrasonic motors inside the lens, but
    >>this is supported in the bigger cameras.

    >
    >
    > That is interesting.
    > It also means that Pentax could do the similar thing to Nikon, such as
    > putting a motor into their new lenses and (possibly) use the integral
    > motor (in the camera) to control the one in the lens via the current
    > mechanical linkage.
    > Another possibility is that Pentax could add more electrical contacts
    > to (a new improved) the K AF mount flange to control a motor in the
    > lens.
    >

    Nikon's true AF-S lenses do not use the AF motor in the camera body.
    They are "fly by wire" like Canon USM. Apart from quiet and fast
    operation, a major advantage of this is that the manual focus ring can
    be moved to override AF - so you can use AF to focus on the subject,
    then quickly shift focus manually if desired without switching between
    AF and MF modes on the lens or body. Unfortunately, this feature is not
    on some of Nikon's cheap AF-S DX lenses, which also suffer from slow AF
    action.
    One day Nikon will release a dslr with no AF motor - to keep cost and
    weight down, and the result of this will be howls of discontent.
     
    frederick, Aug 14, 2005
    #12
  13. Peter

    Guest

    frederick wrote:
    <snip>
    > Nikon's true AF-S lenses do not use the AF motor in the camera body.
    > They are "fly by wire" like Canon USM. Apart from quiet and fast
    > operation, a major advantage of this is that the manual focus ring can
    > be moved to override AF - so you can use AF to focus on the subject,
    > then quickly shift focus manually if desired without switching between
    > AF and MF modes on the lens or body. Unfortunately, this feature is not
    > on some of Nikon's cheap AF-S DX lenses, which also suffer from slow AF
    > action.
    > One day Nikon will release a dslr with no AF motor - to keep cost and
    > weight down, and the result of this will be howls of discontent.


    I'm sure the howls will be just as loud as when Canon changed from FD
    to EOS mount! :)
     
    , Aug 14, 2005
    #13
  14. Peter

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    <> wrote:

    > frederick wrote:
    > <snip>
    > > Nikon's true AF-S lenses do not use the AF motor in the camera body.
    > > They are "fly by wire" like Canon USM. Apart from quiet and fast
    > > operation, a major advantage of this is that the manual focus ring can
    > > be moved to override AF - so you can use AF to focus on the subject,
    > > then quickly shift focus manually if desired without switching between
    > > AF and MF modes on the lens or body. Unfortunately, this feature is not
    > > on some of Nikon's cheap AF-S DX lenses, which also suffer from slow AF
    > > action.
    > > One day Nikon will release a dslr with no AF motor - to keep cost and
    > > weight down, and the result of this will be howls of discontent.

    >
    > I'm sure the howls will be just as loud as when Canon changed from FD
    > to EOS mount! :)


    Pentax K mount: Backwards compatible all the way. Forward compatible,
    too, with some exceptions for lenses you don't want to buy anyway.
     
    Paul Mitchum, Aug 14, 2005
    #14
  15. Peter

    Guest

    Paul Mitchum wrote:
    <snip>
    >
    > Pentax K mount: Backwards compatible all the way. Forward compatible,
    > too, with some exceptions for lenses you don't want to buy anyway.


    That was precisely the reason why I chose to buy a Pentax ist-Ds! :)
    I was originaly attracted by the ist-D, but the large price asked for
    it (compared to an EOS 300D) put me off.

    What I meant was that Pentax could (maybe?) add a few more electrical
    connections on the lensmount (in their next DSLR?) to make in-lens
    motor (USM or HSM or whatever) lenses to AF faster than is possible
    with just the current in-camera focus motor.
    That mount would still be backwards compatible for all MF K-mount
    lenses and still allow the use of current AF K-mount lenses, except as
    MF only (assuming that the in-body motor was omitted).
     
    , Aug 15, 2005
    #15
  16. Peter

    Costas Guest

    Isn't it said that you shouldn't just shop for a camera, but a series of
    lenses? Compare the lens offerings first to decide on which camera you
    want; you'll probably have the lenses longer than you'll have the camera
    IMO. Is there anything even comparable to Canon L glass?
     
    Costas, Aug 16, 2005
    #16
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