PC or Apple

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Fred666, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. Fred666

    Fred666 Guest

    Been using and upgrading PC's for 15-20 years now, but the recent drop in
    prices of Apple equipment is making me think I should swap camps to the
    Apple market.

    In particular the Mac Mini looks good as a starter kit.

    Any comments appreciated. At the moment I use the PC for video and photo
    work, games and downloading films, music etc. I also probably have around
    £10,000 worth of software and utilities.

    Should I give it all up and go Mac??
     
    Fred666, Oct 15, 2005
    #1
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  2. Fred666

    JANA Guest

    The Apple computer does have its strengths, and it is a good product. If you
    have the necessity for this type of computer, and have equipment to
    interface to it, that is best with the Apple computer, then this would be
    the best choice.

    Before going over to Apple, I would think you are aware that they are very
    restrictive, lack the flexibility, and that over 90% of the market share is
    for the PC. Over the long term, you would find that the support for the
    Apple is not the same as for the PC. The cost for expansion, expansions, and
    add-ons, is much more expensive than the PC type platform.

    The Apple computer does have its strengths, and it is a good product. If you
    have the necessity for this type of computer, and have equipment to
    interface to it, that is best with the Apple computer, then this would be
    the best choice.

    --

    JANA
    _____


    "Fred666" <> wrote in message
    news:HY44f.27487$...
    Been using and upgrading PC's for 15-20 years now, but the recent drop in
    prices of Apple equipment is making me think I should swap camps to the
    Apple market.

    In particular the Mac Mini looks good as a starter kit.

    Any comments appreciated. At the moment I use the PC for video and photo
    work, games and downloading films, music etc. I also probably have around
    £10,000 worth of software and utilities.

    Should I give it all up and go Mac??
     
    JANA, Oct 15, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. > The cost for expansion, expansions, and add-ons, is much more
    expensive than the PC platform.

    That depends on what you buy: you can use RAM, Hard drives, monitors and
    mouses from a PC. Graphics cards and processors are different, though.

    Should you switch?
    Not yet: Apple is going to change to x86, and thus, with WINE like
    software, you might be able to run your current software on an Apple.

    Marc
     
    Marc Hulsebosch, Oct 15, 2005
    #3
  4. Fred666

    Tony P. Guest

    In article <HY44f.27487$>,
    says...
    > Been using and upgrading PC's for 15-20 years now, but the recent drop in
    > prices of Apple equipment is making me think I should swap camps to the
    > Apple market.
    >
    > In particular the Mac Mini looks good as a starter kit.
    >
    > Any comments appreciated. At the moment I use the PC for video and photo
    > work, games and downloading films, music etc. I also probably have around
    > £10,000 worth of software and utilities.
    >
    > Should I give it all up and go Mac??


    The mini is still over-pricedd as far as I'm concerned. I'll give a
    perfect example of Apple's insane pricing:

    A 12" G4 PowerBook with a couple little bells and whistles is $2,299 and
    that's on contract pricing. Without it the machine would cost $2,600.

    I can get a Dell laptop that blows the doors off the Apple, has better
    expandability, etc. for < $1,500.

    There really is no advantage to having a Mac anymore.
     
    Tony P., Oct 15, 2005
    #4
  5. Fred666

    Mitch Guest

    In article <HY44f.27487$>, Fred666
    <> wrote:

    > Been using and upgrading PC's for 15-20 years now, but the recent drop in
    > prices of Apple equipment is making me think I should swap camps to the
    > Apple market.
    >
    > In particular the Mac Mini looks good as a starter kit.
    >
    > Any comments appreciated. At the moment I use the PC for video and photo
    > work, games and downloading films, music etc. I also probably have around
    > £10,000 worth of software and utilities.
    >
    > Should I give it all up and go Mac??
    >
    >


    To my mind, there are only two issues:

    are you tired of the rigamarole Windows makes you jgo through, or
    viruses, or spyware, or security holes, or regular updates and holes,
    or limits and bad UI design, etc?
    and --
    do you have much software that can only run on Windows and hasn't any
    sidegrade options?

    If it isn't about software you already own, and you aren't upset at
    Microsoft yet, then it probably isn't time to switch.
     
    Mitch, Oct 15, 2005
    #5
  6. Fred666

    Mitch Guest

    In article <>, JANA <>
    wrote:

    > Before going over to Apple, I would think you are aware that they are very
    > restrictive, lack the flexibility, and that over 90% of the market share is
    > for the PC.

    I don't know what restrictions this person is thinking of, and as far
    as flexibility I would think they are much higher.
    I also don't have know how market share means anything. This is a
    perception Apple has had to deal with for years -- that market share
    means something to the end user or home user. It's nonsense.

    > Over the long term, you would find that the support for the
    > Apple is not the same as for the PC.

    That's right, in a way -- Apple support is strong, but there aren't as
    many avenues for support. Windows support has many avenues, many kinds
    of support, but a LOT more need for it.

    > The cost for expansion, expansions, and
    > add-ons, is much more expensive than the PC type platform.

    Bull. It's basically the same.
    It's always been about the same cost, but in years long past the
    selection has been lower for products compatible with Mac OS.

    > The Apple computer does have its strengths, and it is a good product. If you
    > have the necessity for this type of computer, and have equipment to
    > interface to it,

    All correct, except that there has never been an issue about
    'interfacing' with Apple products. Apple has been compliant with major
    standards for most of it's lifetime.
     
    Mitch, Oct 15, 2005
    #6
  7. Fred666

    TJ Guest

    Mitch wrote:

    > In article <HY44f.27487$>, Fred666
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Been using and upgrading PC's for 15-20 years now, but the recent
    >> drop in prices of Apple equipment is making me think I should swap
    >> camps to the Apple market.
    >>
    >> In particular the Mac Mini looks good as a starter kit.
    >>
    >> Any comments appreciated. At the moment I use the PC for video and
    >> photo work, games and downloading films, music etc. I also probably
    >> have around £10,000 worth of software and utilities.
    >>
    >> Should I give it all up and go Mac??
    >>
    >>

    > To my mind, there are only two issues:
    >
    > are you tired of the rigamarole Windows makes you jgo through


    What rigamarole would that be?

    > or
    > viruses, or spyware, or security holes,


    I don't see any of those on my three machines (all runing WinXP-home SP2)

    > or regular updates


    Oh heavens, NO! Not regular updates! Who wants regular updates? :)

    > and holes,


    More holes?

    > or limits


    How am I limited?

    > and bad UI design, etc?


    I kinda like the GUI, myself.

    > and --
    > do you have much software that can only run on Windows and hasn't any
    > sidegrade options?


    Now *that* is a good observation\question.

    > If it isn't about software you already own, and you aren't upset at
    > Microsoft yet, then it probably isn't time to switch.


    Upset? Why would anyone be upset at Microsoft? It's no more or less secure
    than anything else so long as they (and you) keep it updated. Personally I
    don't get the whole "My OS is better than your OS" thing anyway. It's a
    matter of choice. You wanna Mac, get a Mac. You want a PC, get a PC. You
    wanna run some flavor of Linux? Do it. You prefer Windows? Fine.

    Why do *so* many people seem to care what platform others have chosen?
     
    TJ, Oct 15, 2005
    #7
  8. Fred666

    Fred666 Guest

    "Mitch" <> wrote in message
    news:151020050537382471%...
    > In article <>, JANA <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Before going over to Apple, I would think you are aware that they are
    >> very
    >> restrictive, lack the flexibility, and that over 90% of the market share
    >> is
    >> for the PC.

    > I don't know what restrictions this person is thinking of, and as far
    > as flexibility I would think they are much higher.
    > I also don't have know how market share means anything. This is a
    > perception Apple has had to deal with for years -- that market share
    > means something to the end user or home user. It's nonsense.
    >
    >> Over the long term, you would find that the support for the
    >> Apple is not the same as for the PC.

    > That's right, in a way -- Apple support is strong, but there aren't as
    > many avenues for support. Windows support has many avenues, many kinds
    > of support, but a LOT more need for it.
    >
    >> The cost for expansion, expansions, and
    >> add-ons, is much more expensive than the PC type platform.

    > Bull. It's basically the same.
    > It's always been about the same cost, but in years long past the
    > selection has been lower for products compatible with Mac OS.
    >
    >> The Apple computer does have its strengths, and it is a good product. If
    >> you
    >> have the necessity for this type of computer, and have equipment to
    >> interface to it,

    > All correct, except that there has never been an issue about
    > 'interfacing' with Apple products. Apple has been compliant with major
    > standards for most of it's lifetime.


    Thanks Guys, think I will stick with the PC for a while yet. It does
    everything I want. I suppose I could make it look pretty with a new case.
     
    Fred666, Oct 15, 2005
    #8
  9. JANA wrote:

    > The Apple computer does have its strengths, and it is a good
    > product. If you have the necessity for this type of computer,
    > and have equipment to interface to it, that is best with the
    > Apple computer, then this would be the best choice.


    <snip>

    > The Apple computer does have its strengths, and it is a good
    > product. If you have the necessity for this type of computer,
    > and have equipment to interface to it, that is best with the
    > Apple computer, then this would be the best choice.


    There must have been a sale on boilerplate, this week.


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all Google Groups posts.
    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
     
    Blinky the Shark, Oct 15, 2005
    #9
  10. Fred666 wrote:

    > Been using and upgrading PC's for 15-20 years now, but the
    > recent drop in prices of Apple equipment is making me think I
    > should swap camps to the Apple market.
    >
    > In particular the Mac Mini looks good as a starter kit.
    >
    > Any comments appreciated. At the moment I use the PC for video
    > and photo work, games and downloading films, music etc. I also
    > probably have around £10,000 worth of software and utilities.
    >
    > Should I give it all up and go Mac??


    Nothing to gain; money to lose. Do the math.


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all Google Groups posts.
    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
     
    Blinky the Shark, Oct 15, 2005
    #10
  11. Fred666

    Toolman Tim Guest

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > Fred666 wrote:
    >
    >> Been using and upgrading PC's for 15-20 years now, but the
    >> recent drop in prices of Apple equipment is making me think I
    >> should swap camps to the Apple market.
    >>
    >> In particular the Mac Mini looks good as a starter kit.
    >>
    >> Any comments appreciated. At the moment I use the PC for video
    >> and photo work, games and downloading films, music etc. I also
    >> probably have around £10,000 worth of software and utilities.
    >>
    >> Should I give it all up and go Mac??

    >
    > Nothing to gain;


    Well, you *do* get Mitch in your camp...

    > money to lose. Do the math.


    Point well made.

    --
    When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
     
    Toolman Tim, Oct 15, 2005
    #11
  12. Fred666

    Mitch Guest

    In article <sOf4f.6129$>, Toolman Tim
    <> wrote:

    > >> Should I give it all up and go Mac??

    > >
    > > Nothing to gain;

    >
    > Well, you *do* get Mitch in your camp...


    I'm always good to have camping.
    Bring most of the goodies, have more toys.
    Know some hard-to-find spots that are interesting.
     
    Mitch, Oct 16, 2005
    #12
  13. Mitch wrote:

    > In article <sOf4f.6129$>, Toolman Tim
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> >> Should I give it all up and go Mac??
    >> >
    >> > Nothing to gain;

    >>
    >> Well, you *do* get Mitch in your camp...

    >
    > I'm always good to have camping.
    > Bring most of the goodies, have more toys.
    > Know some hard-to-find spots that are interesting.


    I hope you mean, like, places in the woods... :)


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all Google Groups posts.
    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
     
    Blinky the Shark, Oct 16, 2005
    #13
  14. Fred666

    Mitch Guest

    In article <Xns96F0DCDCD23F2bnooz@130.133.1.4>, Blinky the Shark
    <> wrote:

    > > I'm always good to have camping.
    > > Bring most of the goodies, have more toys.
    > > Know some hard-to-find spots that are interesting.

    >
    > I hope you mean, like, places in the woods... :)


    Uh... god, I hope no one read anything else in that.
     
    Mitch, Oct 17, 2005
    #14
  15. Fred666

    Mitch Guest

    In article <>, TJ
    <> wrote:


    > > are you tired of the rigamarole Windows makes you jgo through

    >
    > What rigamarole would that be?


    Did you hear about all the users who were upset at the extra steps to
    install Windows? How about the misleading questions that generate .Net
    registration? Update issues, registry issues, driver issues, missing
    files, coded error messages... there are a lot of things.
    One of the biggest is anti-virus, anti-spyware, and firewalls. These
    are all needed and important. Windows users have to work with them,
    frequently. Often, they will reveal a problem, which also needs to be
    dealt with.

    > > viruses, or spyware, or security holes,

    >
    > I don't see any of those on my three machines (all runing WinXP-home SP2)


    Whether or not you see them yourself, they are a HUGE issue for all
    Windows users. I shouldn't have to prove that there are virus dangers
    or spyware dangers for Windows.


    > Oh heavens, NO! Not regular updates! Who wants regular updates? :)


    Windows updates cause an interruption in work, and often cause new
    faults and conflicts to show up. Would anyone want that?


    > How am I limited?


    You must realize that the requirements of using the OS are limits on
    the user.

    > > and bad UI design, etc?

    >
    > I kinda like the GUI, myself.


    I'm guessing you haven't a lot of knowledge of the alternative designs,
    of ergonomics and user behavior issues, of the psychology of users.
    I'm not saying you need it -- but there are a lot of ways Windows' GUI
    isn't about making things easier, simpler, or more transparent.

    > > and --
    > > do you have much software that can only run on Windows and hasn't any
    > > sidegrade options?

    >
    > Now *that* is a good observation\question.
    >
    > > If it isn't about software you already own, and you aren't upset at
    > > Microsoft yet, then it probably isn't time to switch.

    >
    > Upset? Why would anyone be upset at Microsoft? It's no more or less secure
    > than anything else so long as they (and you) keep it updated.


    No, it is less secure, because of the holes and because of the presence
    of real threats that take advantage of those holes.

    > Personally I
    > don't get the whole "My OS is better than your OS" thing anyway. It's a
    > matter of choice. You wanna Mac, get a Mac. You want a PC, get a PC.

    It sure is. And in many ways, it's all about what you learned on, what
    you use most, or (my favorite) what you can use effectively without
    having to think about it.

    > Why do *so* many people seem to care what platform others have chosen?


    An important question, and one I am not often asked.
    I honestly believe that most people would be happier _not_ using
    Windows. I honestly believe Mac OS is better designed and mroe
    effective. I really do think users are not getting what they need and
    are owed from Microsoft.
     
    Mitch, Oct 18, 2005
    #15
  16. snip
    >
    >
    > I can get a Dell laptop that blows the doors off the Apple, has better
    > expandability, etc. for < $1,500.
    >
    >

    Was I getting a laod of BS when a retailer told me that Dell's are difficult
    to upgrade?
     
    ///Owen\\\\\\, Oct 18, 2005
    #16
  17. Fred666

    Toolman Tim Guest

    ///Owen\\\ wrote:
    > snip
    >>
    >>
    >> I can get a Dell laptop that blows the doors off the Apple, has
    >> better expandability, etc. for < $1,500.
    >>
    >>

    > Was I getting a laod of BS when a retailer told me that Dell's are
    > difficult to upgrade?


    IMO, yes. Most Dell desktops have standard cases, standard parts, and can
    easily support adding extra drives, memory, optical (DVD burners, etc.)
    aftermarket. In fact, at work we often buy them stripped down to bare
    minimum and buy our extras elsewhere.

    Dell laptops use standard memory, standard hard drives, etc. But most
    laptops of any brand are hard to "upgrade" since most parts other than
    drives and memory are all custom designed for the specific model they are
    mounted in.

    --
    There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking
    like an idiot.
     
    Toolman Tim, Oct 18, 2005
    #17
  18. Fred666

    TJ Guest

    Mitch wrote:

    > In article <>, TJ
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> are you tired of the rigamarole Windows makes you jgo through

    >>
    >> What rigamarole would that be?

    >
    > Did you hear about all the users who were upset at the extra steps to
    > install Windows?


    No. Do tell. I simply stick the CD in and follow the prompts.

    > How about the misleading questions that generate .Net
    > registration? Update issues, registry issues, driver issues, missing
    > files, coded error messages... there are a lot of things.


    None of the "lot of things" you mention above have ever happened to me.
    Perhaps I'm just lucky?

    > One of the biggest is anti-virus,


    Does Mac come with built-in anti-virus, or do you have to install a 3rd
    party application like you would with oh, I dunno, say, Windows?

    > anti-spyware, and firewalls.


    Fully updated XP(SP2) has a rudimentary firewall, and checks for spyware
    every now and again. Now that's *not* to say 3rd party firewalls and
    ad/spyware protection aren't better than what's supplied by MS, but it's not
    like they don't exist. :)

    > These
    > are all needed and important. Windows users have to work with them,
    > frequently. Often, they will reveal a problem, which also needs to be
    > dealt with.


    Huh? I don't care *what* you're running. EVERYTHING needs to be worked
    with and tweaked to some degree.

    >>> viruses, or spyware, or security holes,

    >>
    >> I don't see any of those on my three machines (all runing WinXP-home
    >> SP2)

    >
    > Whether or not you see them yourself, they are a HUGE issue for all
    > Windows users.


    I am part of "all Windows users", and since they don't exist on any of my
    machines ... How are they a "HUGE issue for *all* Windows users"?

    > I shouldn't have to prove that there are virus dangers
    > or spyware dangers for Windows.


    Of course not. It's well documented. It's also well documented that if you
    know what the hell you're doing, you're at no more risk using Windows than
    any other operating system. Plus? You reap the benefits of some nifty
    programs that aren't available for Mac.

    >> Oh heavens, NO! Not regular updates! Who wants regular updates? :)

    >
    > Windows updates cause an interruption in work, and often cause new
    > faults and conflicts to show up. Would anyone want that?


    Oh yeah. I forgot about that. The last updates I got took all of two
    minutes to download and install.

    >> How am I limited?

    >
    > You must realize that the requirements of using the OS are limits on
    > the user.


    Evade the question much? Care to extrapolate, or not? And while you're at
    it, why don't you tell me how Mac users aren't "limited". :)

    >>> and bad UI design, etc?

    >>
    >> I kinda like the GUI, myself.

    >
    > I'm guessing


    <snip>

    You guessed wrong.

    >>> and --
    >>> do you have much software that can only run on Windows and hasn't
    >>> any sidegrade options?

    >>
    >> Now *that* is a good observation\question.
    >>
    >>> If it isn't about software you already own, and you aren't upset at
    >>> Microsoft yet, then it probably isn't time to switch.

    >>
    >> Upset? Why would anyone be upset at Microsoft? It's no more or
    >> less secure than anything else so long as they (and you) keep it
    >> updated.

    >
    > No, it is less secure, because of the holes and because of the
    > presence of real threats that take advantage of those holes.


    For instance?

    >> Personally I
    >> don't get the whole "My OS is better than your OS" thing anyway.
    >> It's a matter of choice. You wanna Mac, get a Mac. You want a PC,
    >> get a PC.

    > It sure is. And in many ways, it's all about what you learned on, what
    > you use most, or (my favorite) what you can use effectively without
    > having to think about it.
    >
    >> Why do *so* many people seem to care what platform others have
    >> chosen?

    >
    > An important question, and one I am not often asked.
    > I honestly believe that most people would be happier _not_ using
    > Windows. I honestly believe Mac OS is better designed and mroe
    > effective. I really do think users are not getting what they need and
    > are owed from Microsoft.


    So don't use anything Microsoft. Ever. Simple enough, no?

    And why do you CARE what I run on my machines? Is there a Mac advocacy
    group? I know there's a Linux advocacy group or two out there. You'd
    probably fit in real well with people of that ilk. Check it out. :)
     
    TJ, Oct 18, 2005
    #18
  19. Fred666

    Trax Guest

    "TJ" <> wrote:

    |>> How about the misleading questions that generate .Net
    |>> registration? Update issues, registry issues, driver issues, missing
    |>> files, coded error messages... there are a lot of things.

    |>None of the "lot of things" you mention above have ever happened to me.
    |>Perhaps I'm just lucky?

    I think he's getting at on a Windows install among other things, your
    set to share files and a Guest account is enabled.

    Other systems would ask:

    Is it ok to allow files to be shared so anybody that hacks or enters
    your system can help themselves?

    Or

    Is it Ok to allow a Guest account so that hacking is even needed?

    While XP isn't that bad, it was a real concern for NT and W2K, your
    still defaulted to those values, but their safer.



    --
    http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php
     
    Trax, Oct 18, 2005
    #19
  20. Fred666

    TJ Guest

    Trax wrote:

    > "TJ" <> wrote:
    >
    >>>> How about the misleading questions that generate .Net
    >>>> registration? Update issues, registry issues, driver issues,
    >>>> missing files, coded error messages... there are a lot of things.

    >
    >>> None of the "lot of things" you mention above have ever happened to
    >>> me. Perhaps I'm just lucky?

    >
    > I think he's getting at on a Windows install among other things, your
    > set to share files


    Say what? Please tell me with whom I'm sharing files other than those I
    allow.

    > and a Guest account is enabled.


    I can't find one on any of my machines. Where shall I look?

    > Other systems would ask:
    > Is it ok to allow files to be shared so anybody that hacks or enters
    > your system can help themselves?


    What?

    > Is it Ok to allow a Guest account so that hacking is even needed?


    What "Guest" account?

    > While XP isn't that bad, it was a real concern for NT and W2K, your
    > still defaulted to those values, but their safer.


    I can't parse this last bit. You seem to be contradicting yourself. It
    appears as if you're saying that XP is more secure than NT and W2K, yet NT
    and W2K are somehow safer?
     
    TJ, Oct 18, 2005
    #20
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