PC AND UPS go bang.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by cowboyz, Jul 17, 2004.

  1. cowboyz

    cowboyz Guest

    Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a couple of
    years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting there quite happily
    till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC shut down. Now neither will
    start. Even the PC plugged directly into the wall won't start at all. I
    was left with a FIIK response. Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be ok. ---
    or not?.

    Expiences or comments?
     
    cowboyz, Jul 17, 2004
    #1
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  2. cowboyz

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    > Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    > power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be ok. ---
    > or not?.
    >


    Absolutely! What brand was the UPS? Were any other electrical (or phone
    line) equipment affected?

    From the sound of it, the UPS died independently from any power spike - and
    took the PC with it.

    RJ Out.
     
    Ryan Jacobs, Jul 17, 2004
    #2
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  3. cowboyz

    Patrick Bold Guest

    "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    > Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a

    couple of
    > years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting there quite

    happily
    > till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC shut down. Now

    neither will
    > start. Even the PC plugged directly into the wall won't start at all.

    I
    > was left with a FIIK response. Aren't UPS units surposed to clean

    the
    > power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be

    .. ---
    > or not?.
    >
    > Expiences or comments?
    >
    >

    Anyone checked the circuit breaker supplying the UPS?
     
    Patrick Bold, Jul 17, 2004
    #3
  4. cowboyz

    cowboyz Guest

    Ryan Jacobs wrote:
    > "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    > news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    >> Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    >> power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be ok.
    >> --- or not?.
    >>

    >
    > Absolutely! What brand was the UPS? Were any other electrical (or
    > phone line) equipment affected?
    >
    > From the sound of it, the UPS died independently from any power spike
    > - and took the PC with it.
    >
    > RJ Out.


    At this stage I can't get any info out of her. Just a whole bunch of
    swear words. She is getting her power supply into the house tested as I
    built her this machine because her last one went bang for no apparent
    reason. Thats why I got her to get a UPS this time. Seems to me the UPS
    has failed its job. She is contacting her insurance to see if they will
    cough up for a new machine but I really think this odd. Even a cheap arse
    UPS shouldn't do that (from knowledge of her and her liking for brand names
    I very much doubt it is a cheap arse UPS)
     
    cowboyz, Jul 17, 2004
    #4
  5. cowboyz

    cowboyz Guest

    Patrick Bold wrote:
    > "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    > news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    >> Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a
    >> couple of years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting
    >> there quite happily till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC
    >> shut down. Now neither will start. Even the PC plugged directly
    >> into the wall won't start at all. I was left with a FIIK response.
    >> Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the power so even if it spiked
    >> and took out the UPS the PC should be

    > . ---
    >> or not?.
    >>
    >> Expiences or comments?
    >>
    >>

    > Anyone checked the circuit breaker supplying the UPS?


    She is getting her house supply tested to see how many volts are coming into
    the house.
     
    cowboyz, Jul 17, 2004
    #5
  6. cowboyz

    thing Guest

    cowboyz wrote:
    > Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a couple of
    > years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting there quite happily
    > till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC shut down. Now neither will
    > start. Even the PC plugged directly into the wall won't start at all. I
    > was left with a FIIK response. Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    > power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be ok. ---
    > or not?.
    >
    > Expiences or comments?
    >
    >
    >


    Its quite possible the PSU "exploded" and the surge/overload damaged the
    UPS, it there a fuse or reset on the UPS? I would expect at least a
    quick blowing fuse but that might be internal.

    I have had PSU's throw flames out the back before now suggesting
    considerable energy discharge, UPS's are not designed for high peaky
    loads so.....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing, Jul 17, 2004
    #6
  7. cowboyz

    GraB Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:32:16 +1200, "cowboyz" <> wrote:

    >Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a couple of
    >years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting there quite happily
    >till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC shut down. Now neither will
    >start. Even the PC plugged directly into the wall won't start at all. I
    >was left with a FIIK response. Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    >power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be ok. ---
    >or not?.
    >
    >Expiences or comments?
    >
    >

    What can you tell us about the UPS? What brand, etc? One would think
    you were safe with a UPS.
     
    GraB, Jul 17, 2004
    #7
  8. cowboyz

    EMB Guest

    cowboyz wrote:

    >
    > She is getting her house supply tested to see how many volts are coming into
    > the house.


    The average switchmode power supply won't explode until somewhere around
    300 volts so I doubt it's an incoming mains problem. Much more likely
    to be a surge problem - despite what most people think most cheap UPS's
    aren't line interactive so they don't filter the mains worth a damn!
    We have a major surge problem in the workshop (CNC lathe next door back
    feeding on slowdown ~320 volts) and the only solution has been a "true"
    line interactive UPS - the standby ones have done exactly nothing to
    prevent the PC's dying.

    --
    EMB
    change two to number to reply
     
    EMB, Jul 17, 2004
    #8
  9. "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    > Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a couple of
    > years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting there quite

    happily
    > till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC shut down. Now neither

    will
    > start. Even the PC plugged directly into the wall won't start at all. I
    > was left with a FIIK response. Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    > power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be ok. ---
    > or not?.


    What type of PSU did you put in the system?

    Certain ~235W units from "a couple of years ago" are known for their "large
    bang" failures.
     
    5... 4... 3... 2... 1... ???, Jul 17, 2004
    #9
  10. cowboyz

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:35:14 +1200, "cowboyz" <> wrote:

    >Ryan Jacobs wrote:
    >> "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    >> news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    >>> Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    >>> power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be ok.
    >>> --- or not?.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Absolutely! What brand was the UPS? Were any other electrical (or
    >> phone line) equipment affected?
    >>
    >> From the sound of it, the UPS died independently from any power spike
    >> - and took the PC with it.
    >>
    >> RJ Out.

    >
    >At this stage I can't get any info out of her. Just a whole bunch of
    >swear words. She is getting her power supply into the house tested as I
    >built her this machine because her last one went bang for no apparent
    >reason. Thats why I got her to get a UPS this time. Seems to me the UPS
    >has failed its job. She is contacting her insurance to see if they will
    >cough up for a new machine but I really think this odd. Even a cheap arse
    >UPS shouldn't do that (from knowledge of her and her liking for brand names
    >I very much doubt it is a cheap arse UPS)
    >

    Any chance she has a laserjet on the PC side of the UPS?

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Jul 17, 2004
    #10
  11. cowboyz

    cowboyz Guest

    GraB wrote:
    > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:32:16 +1200, "cowboyz" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a
    >> couple of years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting
    >> there quite happily till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC
    >> shut down. Now neither will start. Even the PC plugged directly
    >> into the wall won't start at all. I was left with a FIIK response.
    >> Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the power so even if it spiked
    >> and took out the UPS the PC should be ok. --- or not?.
    >>
    >> Expiences or comments?
    >>
    >>

    > What can you tell us about the UPS? What brand, etc? One would think
    > you were safe with a UPS.



    One would think so and at this stage I have no info at all. Have to wait
    till monday.
     
    cowboyz, Jul 17, 2004
    #11
  12. cowboyz

    cowboyz Guest

    5... 4... 3... 2... 1... ??? wrote:
    > "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    > news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    >> Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a
    >> couple of years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting
    >> there quite happily till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC
    >> shut down. Now neither will start. Even the PC plugged directly
    >> into the wall won't start at all. I was left with a FIIK response.
    >> Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the power so even if it spiked
    >> and took out the UPS the PC should be ok. --- or not?.

    >
    > What type of PSU did you put in the system?
    >
    > Certain ~235W units from "a couple of years ago" are known for their
    > "large bang" failures.


    I can't remember to tell the truth but I have never built a machine with
    less than 300W PSU. Would have been an average one - on the cheap side but
    not the cheapest on the market. Have to wait till Monday to find all the
    guts on what happened cause she is in Tauranga and I am in Hamilton.
     
    cowboyz, Jul 17, 2004
    #12
  13. cowboyz

    cowboyz Guest

    Enkidu wrote:
    > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:35:14 +1200, "cowboyz" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Ryan Jacobs wrote:
    >>> "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    >>>> Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    >>>> power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be
    >>>> ok. --- or not?.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Absolutely! What brand was the UPS? Were any other electrical (or
    >>> phone line) equipment affected?
    >>>
    >>> From the sound of it, the UPS died independently from any power
    >>> spike - and took the PC with it.
    >>>
    >>> RJ Out.

    >>
    >> At this stage I can't get any info out of her. Just a whole bunch
    >> of swear words. She is getting her power supply into the house
    >> tested as I built her this machine because her last one went bang
    >> for no apparent reason. Thats why I got her to get a UPS this
    >> time. Seems to me the UPS has failed its job. She is contacting
    >> her insurance to see if they will cough up for a new machine but I
    >> really think this odd. Even a cheap arse UPS shouldn't do that
    >> (from knowledge of her and her liking for brand names I very much
    >> doubt it is a cheap arse UPS)
    >>

    > Any chance she has a laserjet on the PC side of the UPS?
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    No idea. Possible. You think that a Laser printer might draw too much
    power? Whats your thinking?
     
    cowboyz, Jul 17, 2004
    #13
  14. cowboyz

    cowboyz Guest

    Enkidu wrote:
    > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:35:14 +1200, "cowboyz" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Ryan Jacobs wrote:
    >>> "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    >>>> Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    >>>> power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be
    >>>> ok. --- or not?.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Absolutely! What brand was the UPS? Were any other electrical (or
    >>> phone line) equipment affected?
    >>>
    >>> From the sound of it, the UPS died independently from any power
    >>> spike - and took the PC with it.
    >>>
    >>> RJ Out.

    >>
    >> At this stage I can't get any info out of her. Just a whole bunch
    >> of swear words. She is getting her power supply into the house
    >> tested as I built her this machine because her last one went bang
    >> for no apparent reason. Thats why I got her to get a UPS this
    >> time. Seems to me the UPS has failed its job. She is contacting
    >> her insurance to see if they will cough up for a new machine but I
    >> really think this odd. Even a cheap arse UPS shouldn't do that
    >> (from knowledge of her and her liking for brand names I very much
    >> doubt it is a cheap arse UPS)
    >>

    > Any chance she has a laserjet on the PC side of the UPS?
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    Oh yeah, She did say that all her external devices still power up -- ie.
    printer (she didn't say what it was) scanner, camera which was plugged in at
    the time although it doesn't get it's power from the PC it was connected via
    USB. External modem. I am thinking (hoping) the PSU just went bang and
    didn't take alot with it although I may be wishing on a star really. I have
    never seen a PSU blow up on it's own without taking something else with it.
     
    cowboyz, Jul 17, 2004
    #14
  15. Don't forget that the cheap UPSes are actually stand-by power supplies
    and therefore they're *not* particularly good at protecting from
    voltage spikes.

    Under normal operation, they just pass the 230VAC through to the PC,
    with a few voltage clamping components (varistors and inductors) to
    try and catch the worst of the spikes.

    If a big enough spike comes down the line it will pass straight
    through with only minimal attenuation.

    What you need for *proper* protection is a *real* UPS.

    With these boxes, the 230V is converted down to 36-48VDC which is then
    used to power the inverter (which runs all the time, not just when the
    input voltage goes out of spec) that produces the 230V AC output.

    The problem is that true UPSes are usually quite a bit more expensive
    than a cheap so-called UPS.

    The last one I bought cost about $1K for a 1KVA unit but it stood up
    to incredible punishment and drove 3 PCs and screens with no problems
    at all.

    --
    you can contact me via http://aardvark.co.nz/contact/
    Need a cruise missile?
    http://www.interestingprojects.com/needamissile.shtml
     
    Bruce Simpson, Jul 17, 2004
    #15
  16. cowboyz

    samg Guest

    Much more
    > likely to be a surge problem - despite what most people think most
    > cheap UPS's aren't line interactive so they don't filter the mains
    > worth a damn!


    yer exactly what I was going to say

    We have a major surge problem in the workshop (CNC lathe
    > next door back feeding on slowdown ~320 volts) and the only solution
    > has been a "true" line interactive UPS - the standby ones have done
    > exactly nothing to prevent the PC's dying.
    >
     
    samg, Jul 18, 2004
    #16
  17. cowboyz

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 23:35:36 +1200, "cowboyz" <> wrote:

    >Enkidu wrote:
    >> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:35:14 +1200, "cowboyz" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ryan Jacobs wrote:
    >>>> "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:cda6k2$gdp$...
    >>>>> Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    >>>>> power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be
    >>>>> ok. --- or not?.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Absolutely! What brand was the UPS? Were any other electrical (or
    >>>> phone line) equipment affected?
    >>>>
    >>>> From the sound of it, the UPS died independently from any power
    >>>> spike - and took the PC with it.
    >>>>
    >>>> RJ Out.
    >>>
    >>> At this stage I can't get any info out of her. Just a whole bunch
    >>> of swear words. She is getting her power supply into the house
    >>> tested as I built her this machine because her last one went bang
    >>> for no apparent reason. Thats why I got her to get a UPS this
    >>> time. Seems to me the UPS has failed its job. She is contacting
    >>> her insurance to see if they will cough up for a new machine but I
    >>> really think this odd. Even a cheap arse UPS shouldn't do that
    >>> (from knowledge of her and her liking for brand names I very much
    >>> doubt it is a cheap arse UPS)
    >>>

    >> Any chance she has a laserjet on the PC side of the UPS?

    >
    >No idea. Possible. You think that a Laser printer might draw too much
    >power? Whats your thinking?
    >

    http://www.tripplite.com/support/faq/tech_ups.cfm

    That talks about laser printers and UPS. I'd heard somewhere that a LP
    can spike and wipe out the PC on the same side of the UPS. However
    I've not heard of them doing for the UPS.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Jul 18, 2004
    #17
  18. cowboyz

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 23:35:36 +1200, "cowboyz" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > That talks about laser printers and UPS. I'd heard somewhere that a LP
    > can spike and wipe out the PC on the same side of the UPS. However
    > I've not heard of them doing for the UPS.
    >


    I've got 2 UPS's in operation here (One is a cheap Belkin, the other a high
    spec APC) The documentation for both state that you can connect a laser, but
    both strongly recommend against it.

    RJ out.
     
    Ryan Jacobs, Jul 18, 2004
    #18
  19. cowboyz

    Daniel Guest

    Interesting thread.

    Has anyone had one of those Belkin SurgeMasters (not the UPS, just the 4/6/8-way plug
    thingies) involved in something similar?

    The one I've seen (8-way), makes a claim to an $80K warranty.


    cowboyz wrote:

    > Just got a phone call from my auntie who I built a machine for a couple of
    > years ago. She had a UPS unit and said she was sitting there quite happily
    > till she heard a large bang and the UPS and PC shut down. Now neither will
    > start. Even the PC plugged directly into the wall won't start at all. I
    > was left with a FIIK response. Aren't UPS units surposed to clean the
    > power so even if it spiked and took out the UPS the PC should be ok. ---
    > or not?.
    >
    > Expiences or comments?
    >
    >
    >
     
    Daniel, Jul 18, 2004
    #19
  20. cowboyz

    Ray Greene Guest

    On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 01:00:39 +1200, Bruce Simpson
    <> wrote:

    >What you need for *proper* protection is a *real* UPS.


    Be a real man. Build your own UPS :)
    http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm

    Ray Greene.
     
    Ray Greene, Jul 18, 2004
    #20
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