PASS vs. Adobe DNG

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Nils Rostedt, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. Nils Rostedt

    Nils Rostedt Guest

    Hi
    A very interesting initiative from Kodak, Fuji and KonicaMinolta:
    http://home.fujifilm.com/news/n040927.html

    To me this looks more useful for us consumers than Adobe's DNG initiative.
    But it's far from ready of course.
    What do you think?

    (As a matter of fact, my Adobe Acrobat reader is not even able to display
    Adobe's DNG specification document (PDF).
    Maybe I need an update. ;-)

    //Nils
     
    Nils Rostedt, Sep 29, 2004
    #1
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  2. Nils Rostedt

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    Nils Rostedt <sailor???Spamshield???@dlc.fi> wrote:

    > To me this looks more useful for us consumers than Adobe's DNG initiative.
    > But it's far from ready of course.
    > What do you think?


    It's completely different from DNG and would seem to have little to do with
    it one way or another.

    --
    Jeremy |
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Sep 29, 2004
    #2
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  3. Nils Rostedt

    Nils Rostedt Guest

    "Jeremy Nixon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Nils Rostedt <sailor???Spamshield???@dlc.fi> wrote:
    >
    > > To me this looks more useful for us consumers than Adobe's DNG

    initiative.
    > > But it's far from ready of course.
    > > What do you think?

    >
    > It's completely different from DNG and would seem to have little to do

    with
    > it one way or another.
    >

    Well, to me it looks like both initiatives aim at the same important thing -
    ensuring that pictures can still be retrieved in the distant future,
    regardless of the original camera and its manufacturer. The two initiatives
    certainly differ in their approach and scope.

    It will be interesting to follow this development. I was at least happy to
    see that Adobe have allowed for inclusion of IPTC metadata. That, however,
    probably will not decide the outcome.

    //Nils
     
    Nils Rostedt, Sep 29, 2004
    #3
  4. Nils Rostedt

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    Nils Rostedt <sailor???Spamshield???@dlc.fi> wrote:

    >> It's completely different from DNG and would seem to have little to do
    >> with it one way or another.

    >
    > Well, to me it looks like both initiatives aim at the same important thing -
    > ensuring that pictures can still be retrieved in the distant future,
    > regardless of the original camera and its manufacturer. The two initiatives
    > certainly differ in their approach and scope.


    DNG deals with camera raw files. The other thing deals with finished
    pictures people save. The two are being developed for entirely different
    purposes, and certainly aren't in any kind of competition.

    --
    Jeremy |
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Sep 29, 2004
    #4
  5. Nils Rostedt

    Matt Ion Guest

    Nils Rostedt wrote:

    > (As a matter of fact, my Adobe Acrobat reader is not even able to display
    > Adobe's DNG specification document (PDF).
    > Maybe I need an update. ;-)


    Heheh... little off-topic, but that reminds me of the time I wanted to
    install IE5 on a fresh new NT4 setup... and couldn't because the old
    version of IE bundled with NT4 didn't support Javascript, which was
    necessary for Microsoft' IE download page.

    Oh, the irony of it all...
     
    Matt Ion, Sep 30, 2004
    #5
  6. Nils Rostedt

    Alan Browne Guest

    Nils Rostedt wrote:

    > Hi
    > A very interesting initiative from Kodak, Fuji and KonicaMinolta:
    > http://home.fujifilm.com/news/n040927.html
    >
    > To me this looks more useful for us consumers than Adobe's DNG initiative.
    > But it's far from ready of course.
    > What do you think?


    First, while there may be some appearance of overlap, they are at opposite ends
    of the process.

    Second, the initiative is all but useless until there is a digital storage
    medium that will keep for 100+ years without data maintenance.

    Write e-mails to the principals in this regard. Their addresses are:

    Yutaka Ueda, Konica Minolta Photo Imaging,Inc.()
    Tatsuo Heki, Fuji Photo Film Co., Ltd. ()
    Mike Graham, Eastman Kodak Company ()

    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Sep 30, 2004
    #6
  7. Nils Rostedt

    Nils Rostedt Guest

    "Alan Browne" <> wrote in message
    news:zhY6d.9646$...
    > Nils Rostedt wrote:
    >
    > > Hi
    > > A very interesting initiative from Kodak, Fuji and KonicaMinolta:
    > > http://home.fujifilm.com/news/n040927.html
    > >
    > > To me this looks more useful for us consumers than Adobe's DNG

    initiative.
    > > But it's far from ready of course.
    > > What do you think?

    >
    > First, while there may be some appearance of overlap, they are at opposite

    ends
    > of the process.
    >
    > Second, the initiative is all but useless until there is a digital storage
    > medium that will keep for 100+ years without data maintenance.
    >
    > Write e-mails to the principals in this regard.


    --Hi Alan,
    I see your point but find it unrealistically demanding. After all, mankind
    has been able to provide user maintenance (e.g. environmental control) for
    its existing archival methods ever since Gutenberg, for works deemed
    important enough. OK, a lot has not survived, but anyway. And on the other
    hand a lot has survived that was never intended to be archived .

    There is a good thread at dpreview.com touching this issue with a quote from
    Dale Cotton, the creator of dcraw. I can't find it now but IIRC it states
    that the essential requirement is to publish the conversion algorithms
    describing how to code the file format, in a human readable form. This way
    there will always be a means to construct software that can retrieve old
    image files.
    Anyway, it's high time that this issue is addressed by the industry.
    Actually it might be useful to write also Canon, Nikon etc. If a humble
    ballpoint pen has to fulfil archival requirements, one would as a consumer
    expect manufacturers of expensive digital gear to be able to give guarantees
    about the longevity of digital files. Or?

    //Nils
     
    Nils Rostedt, Sep 30, 2004
    #7
  8. Nils Rostedt

    Alan Browne Guest

    Nils Rostedt wrote:

    > "Alan Browne" <> wrote in message
    > news:zhY6d.9646$...
    >
    >>Nils Rostedt wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Hi
    >>>A very interesting initiative from Kodak, Fuji and KonicaMinolta:
    >>>http://home.fujifilm.com/news/n040927.html
    >>>
    >>>To me this looks more useful for us consumers than Adobe's DNG

    >
    > initiative.
    >
    >>>But it's far from ready of course.
    >>>What do you think?

    >>
    >>First, while there may be some appearance of overlap, they are at opposite

    >
    > ends
    >
    >>of the process.
    >>
    >>Second, the initiative is all but useless until there is a digital storage
    >>medium that will keep for 100+ years without data maintenance.
    >>
    >>Write e-mails to the principals in this regard.

    >
    >
    > --Hi Alan,
    > I see your point but find it unrealistically demanding. After all, mankind
    > has been able to provide user maintenance (e.g. environmental control) for
    > its existing archival methods ever since Gutenberg, for works deemed
    > important enough. OK, a lot has not survived, but anyway. And on the other
    > hand a lot has survived that was never intended to be archived .
    >
    > There is a good thread at dpreview.com touching this issue with a quote from
    > Dale Cotton, the creator of dcraw. I can't find it now but IIRC it states
    > that the essential requirement is to publish the conversion algorithms
    > describing how to code the file format, in a human readable form. This way
    > there will always be a means to construct software that can retrieve old
    > image files.
    > Anyway, it's high time that this issue is addressed by the industry.
    > Actually it might be useful to write also Canon, Nikon etc. If a humble
    > ballpoint pen has to fulfil archival requirements, one would as a consumer
    > expect manufacturers of expensive digital gear to be able to give guarantees
    > about the longevity of digital files. Or?


    I agree with you completely ... however no algorithm written down in ink on
    veluum will be of much use if the storage mediums are only good for about 5 years.

    The thing industry MUST do is address long term, 0 maintenance data storage.
    Consumers in general are ignorant or indifferent to the problem and will not do
    their backups nor their maintenance on their backups. And for those of us who
    DO recycle our backups, it is a pain in the ass. The only upside here is that I
    will end up buying a DVD burner, so I should get about 8 or 9 CD-ROMS onto each
    DVD... (Some of the current CD-ROM archive comes from old ZIP disks... ...and
    some of that from 3.5" floppies .... etc.).

    Long terms storage must be addressed.

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Sep 30, 2004
    #8
  9. "Nils Rostedt" <sailor???Spamshield???@dlc.fi> wrote in
    news::

    > If a humble
    > ballpoint pen has to fulfil archival requirements, one would as a
    > consumer expect manufacturers of expensive digital gear to be able to
    > give guarantees about the longevity of digital files. Or?
    >


    The main focus for computer storage have been size and speed and price.
    After that comes nothing else.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Sep 30, 2004
    #9
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