Paradise International Newsgroups Not Updating

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Dave, Oct 19, 2006.

  1. Dave

    Dave Guest

    I think it's here we go again - anyone else finding international newsgroups
    not updating for the Telstraclear users?
    Dave
    Dave, Oct 19, 2006
    #1
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  2. Dave

    John Guest

    On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 07:10:12 +1300, Dave wrote:

    > I think it's here we go again - anyone else finding international newsgroups
    > not updating for the Telstraclear users?
    > Dave


    Nothing coming though since the 18th on international groups - also
    noticed that a number of groups I previously read no longer updated,
    no postings since the last TelstraClear balls up.

    I now use three other servers to read the ones that TC has stopped:-(

    Regards,
    John.
    John, Oct 19, 2006
    #2
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  3. Dave

    Earl Grey Guest

    Dave wrote:
    > I think it's here we go again - anyone else finding international newsgroups
    > not updating for the Telstraclear users?
    > Dave
    >
    >


    Yup
    They are trying to kill their usenet service by allowing it to degrade
    to unusable
    They would be better to control their upstream bandwidth use by
    restricting to text groups if thats the problem
    But they aren't a smart company
    I would never recommend them as an isp although the cable service is
    less affected by contention ratio issues than adsl.
    Earl Grey, Oct 19, 2006
    #3
  4. Dave

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > I think it's here we go again - anyone else finding international newsgroups
    > not updating for the Telstraclear users?
    > Dave


    Yep. Some rec.aviation.* groups for starters. Last three days -
    nothin'!

    --
    Duncan
    Dave Doe, Oct 20, 2006
    #4
  5. Dave wrote:
    > I think it's here we go again - anyone else finding international newsgroups
    > not updating for the Telstraclear users?
    > Dave


    If they must use this mad system whereby they stop the feed once it goes over
    quota each month, surely it would be good for their image to drop some of the
    high bandwidth groups, to extend the life of the feed as a whole each month.

    They really are stupid.

    But I forget, this means that their customers will have to use more bandwidth
    and so they'll make more money.

    But duh: the customer will use less bandwidth if they don't find another nntp
    server; and if they do find another server, they'll still use the same
    bandwidth but Telstra will have to pay more for the traffic as they are not
    caching it locally.

    They really are really stupid.

    This has echoes of the depeering debacle which appeared to have the same
    rationale and where they have continued with this course of action even after
    they have abolished the discount for local traffic.

    Really really really really really ...
    Mark Robinson, Oct 20, 2006
    #5
  6. Dave

    Earl Grey Guest

    Re: (Really really stupid) Paradise International Newsgroups NotUpdating

    Mark Robinson wrote:
    > Dave wrote:
    >> I think it's here we go again - anyone else finding international newsgroups
    >> not updating for the Telstraclear users?
    >> Dave

    >
    > If they must use this mad system whereby they stop the feed once it goes over
    > quota each month, surely it would be good for their image to drop some of the
    > high bandwidth groups, to extend the life of the feed as a whole each month.
    >
    > They really are stupid.
    >
    > But I forget, this means that their customers will have to use more bandwidth
    > and so they'll make more money.
    >
    > But duh: the customer will use less bandwidth if they don't find another nntp
    > server; and if they do find another server, they'll still use the same
    > bandwidth but Telstra will have to pay more for the traffic as they are not
    > caching it locally.
    >
    > They really are really stupid.
    >
    > This has echoes of the depeering debacle which appeared to have the same
    > rationale and where they have continued with this course of action even after
    > they have abolished the discount for local traffic.
    >
    > Really really really really really ...


    I'll use another service for international usenet, I give up.

    But really
    Are they so bereft of sufficiently skilled administrators that they
    can't resolve an issue like this ?

    Really really stupid
    Earl Grey, Oct 20, 2006
    #6
  7. Dave

    Tony Guest

    > They really are really stupid.
    >
    > This has echoes of the depeering debacle which appeared to have the same
    > rationale and where they have continued with this course of action even after
    > they have abolished the discount for local traffic.
    >
    > Really really really really really ...


    Said it before, I'll say it again.. http://xnet.co.nz They have a news
    server that actually works.
    Tony, Oct 20, 2006
    #7
  8. Tony wrote:
    >> They really are really stupid.
    >>
    >> This has echoes of the depeering debacle which appeared to have the same
    >> rationale and where they have continued with this course of action
    >> even after
    >> they have abolished the discount for local traffic.
    >>
    >> Really really really really really ...

    >
    > Said it before, I'll say it again.. http://xnet.co.nz They have a news
    > server that actually works.


    Nice thought, but I bet they can't offer a service over TelstraClear's network.

    Now that we have the unbundling that Telstra/Clear fought so hard to obtain it
    appears that what is good enough for the goose is not good enough for the gander.
    Mark Robinson, Oct 20, 2006
    #8
  9. Dave

    Tony Guest


    > Nice thought, but I bet they can't offer a service over TelstraClear's network.
    >
    > Now that we have the unbundling that Telstra/Clear fought so hard to obtain it
    > appears that what is good enough for the goose is not good enough for the gander.


    Wholesale of TCL's cable network is a joke, that's why no one does it.
    It seems they complain about Telecom's wholesale, but ask them for rates
    to wholesale on their network and it is a rip off. If your a business
    then it is viable, but home users it is not viable.
    Tony, Oct 20, 2006
    #9
  10. Dave

    juicyjuice Guest

    Mark Robinson wrote:
    > Dave wrote:
    >> I think it's here we go again - anyone else finding international
    >> newsgroups not updating for the Telstraclear users?
    >> Dave

    >
    > If they must use this mad system whereby they stop the feed once it
    > goes over quota each month, surely it would be good for their image
    > to drop some of the high bandwidth groups, to extend the life of the
    > feed as a whole each month.
    >
    > They really are stupid.
    >
    > But I forget, this means that their customers will have to use more
    > bandwidth and so they'll make more money.
    >
    > But duh: the customer will use less bandwidth if they don't find
    > another nntp server; and if they do find another server, they'll
    > still use the same bandwidth but Telstra will have to pay more for
    > the traffic as they are not caching it locally.
    >
    > They really are really stupid.
    >
    > This has echoes of the depeering debacle which appeared to have the
    > same rationale and where they have continued with this course of
    > action even after they have abolished the discount for local traffic.
    >
    > Really really really really really ...


    I doubt very much that the TC server is to blame, it seems to me that it's
    their upstream feed provider that is not getting any feed from their feed.
    Example; if you add a group you've never subscribed to before, and no-one
    else on TC has subscribed, the TC server still get's the group from their
    feed, however last few days posts are missing.. if there was a problem with
    TC or they were cut off from their feed, you wouldn't get any posts usually
    for a new group that isn't cached already.
    NZ groups work because the feed is taken directly from the nz.* nntp host
    directly.
    juicyjuice, Oct 23, 2006
    #10
  11. Dave

    Earl Grey Guest

    juicyjuice wrote:
    > Mark Robinson wrote:
    >> Dave wrote:
    >>> I think it's here we go again - anyone else finding international
    >>> newsgroups not updating for the Telstraclear users?
    >>> Dave

    >> If they must use this mad system whereby they stop the feed once it
    >> goes over quota each month, surely it would be good for their image
    >> to drop some of the high bandwidth groups, to extend the life of the
    >> feed as a whole each month.
    >>
    >> They really are stupid.
    >>
    >> But I forget, this means that their customers will have to use more
    >> bandwidth and so they'll make more money.
    >>
    >> But duh: the customer will use less bandwidth if they don't find
    >> another nntp server; and if they do find another server, they'll
    >> still use the same bandwidth but Telstra will have to pay more for
    >> the traffic as they are not caching it locally.
    >>
    >> They really are really stupid.
    >>
    >> This has echoes of the depeering debacle which appeared to have the
    >> same rationale and where they have continued with this course of
    >> action even after they have abolished the discount for local traffic.
    >>
    >> Really really really really really ...

    >
    > I doubt very much that the TC server is to blame, it seems to me that it's
    > their upstream feed provider that is not getting any feed from their feed.
    > Example; if you add a group you've never subscribed to before, and no-one
    > else on TC has subscribed, the TC server still get's the group from their
    > feed, however last few days posts are missing.. if there was a problem with
    > TC or they were cut off from their feed, you wouldn't get any posts usually
    > for a new group that isn't cached already.
    > NZ groups work because the feed is taken directly from the nz.* nntp host
    > directly.
    >
    >

    They did it last month too, they explained that their allocation had run
    out.
    The international posts won't start again till the end of the month.
    They will probably do it next month too.

    Of course they are not to blame.
    Earl Grey, Oct 23, 2006
    #11
  12. >>
    >> I doubt very much that the TC server is to blame, it seems to me that
    >> it's their upstream feed provider that is not getting any feed from their
    >> feed. Example; if you add a group you've never subscribed to before, and
    >> no-one else on TC has subscribed, the TC server still get's the group
    >> from their feed, however last few days posts are missing.. if there was a
    >> problem with TC or they were cut off from their feed, you wouldn't get
    >> any posts usually for a new group that isn't cached already.
    >> NZ groups work because the feed is taken directly from the nz.* nntp host
    >> directly.


    The way I think TC work is they have an International NNTP Peer which they
    pay for say 500G (made up number) of data per month. When this quota is
    full they cannot download any more usenet articles from the international
    peer until the next month (which looks like happened last month and this
    month)

    There is no ".nz nntp host" but I would think they peer with another peer
    who gives them .nz only.

    There is a number of other NZ based ISP's who bring in usenet as well and
    then share articles nationally so if there are 3 ISP's then each ISP only
    has to spend X/3 on the bandwidth they used to and then they share
    nationally with the others (National BW costs money but usually is a lot
    cheaper) If YC contacted the other ISP's in NZ who do this then it would
    save even more BW per ISP and TC wouldn't have this problem each month.


    Thanks
    Craig
    Talking for Myself
    Craig Whitmore, Oct 23, 2006
    #12
  13. Dave

    Earl Grey Guest

    Craig Whitmore wrote:
    >>> I doubt very much that the TC server is to blame, it seems to me that
    >>> it's their upstream feed provider that is not getting any feed from their
    >>> feed. Example; if you add a group you've never subscribed to before, and
    >>> no-one else on TC has subscribed, the TC server still get's the group
    >>> from their feed, however last few days posts are missing.. if there was a
    >>> problem with TC or they were cut off from their feed, you wouldn't get
    >>> any posts usually for a new group that isn't cached already.
    >>> NZ groups work because the feed is taken directly from the nz.* nntp host
    >>> directly.

    >
    > The way I think TC work is they have an International NNTP Peer which they
    > pay for say 500G (made up number) of data per month. When this quota is
    > full they cannot download any more usenet articles from the international
    > peer until the next month (which looks like happened last month and this
    > month)
    >
    > There is no ".nz nntp host" but I would think they peer with another peer
    > who gives them .nz only.
    >
    > There is a number of other NZ based ISP's who bring in usenet as well and
    > then share articles nationally so if there are 3 ISP's then each ISP only
    > has to spend X/3 on the bandwidth they used to and then they share
    > nationally with the others (National BW costs money but usually is a lot
    > cheaper) If YC contacted the other ISP's in NZ who do this then it would
    > save even more BW per ISP and TC wouldn't have this problem each month.
    >
    >
    > Thanks
    > Craig
    > Talking for Myself
    >
    >

    Paradise used to peer at WIX until Telstraclear decided that they would
    make more money by de-peering.
    Earl Grey, Oct 23, 2006
    #13
  14. >>
    >>

    > Paradise used to peer at WIX until Telstraclear decided that they would
    > make more money by de-peering.


    Network Peering and NNTP Peering have nothing to do with each other really.

    Thanks
    Craig Whitmore, Oct 23, 2006
    #14
  15. Dave

    juicyjuice Guest

    Craig Whitmore wrote:
    >>> I doubt very much that the TC server is to blame, it seems to me
    >>> that it's their upstream feed provider that is not getting any feed
    >>> from their feed. Example; if you add a group you've never
    >>> subscribed to before, and no-one else on TC has subscribed, the TC
    >>> server still get's the group from their feed, however last few days
    >>> posts are missing.. if there was a problem with TC or they were cut
    >>> off from their feed, you wouldn't get any posts usually for a new
    >>> group that isn't cached already. NZ groups work because the feed is
    >>> taken directly from the nz.*
    >>> nntp host directly.

    >
    > The way I think TC work is they have an International NNTP Peer which
    > they pay for say 500G (made up number) of data per month. When this
    > quota is full they cannot download any more usenet articles from the
    > international peer until the next month (which looks like happened
    > last month and this month)


    ah interesting.. so we pay for said amount of quota, but instead of them
    upgrading *their* quota to cater for us paying customers, they pocket our
    money and tell us the service has run out - sounds like news is
    complimentary with TC also lol

    >
    > There is no ".nz nntp host"


    hmm, where is the newsgroup like nz.comp created then? In *cyberspace*?
    Does one not have to have a news-server in the first place to create a
    newsgroup? that other news-servers feed/replicate from?

    but I would think they peer with another
    > peer who gives them .nz only.
    >

    Yer i realized they peered with another isp for nz.* not the host directly
    after i posted, my bad.

    > There is a number of other NZ based ISP's who bring in usenet as well
    > and then share articles nationally so if there are 3 ISP's then each
    > ISP only has to spend X/3 on the bandwidth they used to and then they
    > share nationally with the others (National BW costs money but usually
    > is a lot cheaper) If YC contacted the other ISP's in NZ who do this
    > then it would save even more BW per ISP and TC wouldn't have this
    > problem each month.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Craig
    > Talking for Myself


    They probably are stiffing them because they are aussie owned haha
    juicyjuice, Oct 23, 2006
    #15
  16. In message <453ca12f$>, juicyjuice wrote:

    > hmm, where is the newsgroup like nz.comp created then? In *cyberspace*?
    > Does one not have to have a news-server in the first place to create a
    > newsgroup?


    Newsgroups can be recognized as valid on some servers but not others--just
    because a group comes into existence on one server doesn't mean that those
    connected to it will automatically accept the existence of that new group.
    Postings to newsgroups can come from anywhere in the world. Thus a
    newsgroup doesn't exist in any particular place.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 23, 2006
    #16
  17. >
    > hmm, where is the newsgroup like nz.comp created then? In *cyberspace*?
    > Does one not have to have a news-server in the first place to create a
    > newsgroup? that other news-servers feed/replicate from?


    A group is created in the control messages (can be on any usenet server -
    could be overseas) which then gets send around the world and the group is
    created everywhere. I think IHUG have a feed from TC and IHUG peer with a
    few other sites in NZ for smaller groups so thats how the .nz groups get to
    TC.

    Thanks
    Craig
    Talking for Myself
    Craig Whitmore, Oct 23, 2006
    #17
  18. Dave

    juicyjuice Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <453ca12f$>, juicyjuice wrote:
    >
    >> hmm, where is the newsgroup like nz.comp created then? In
    >> *cyberspace*? Does one not have to have a news-server in the first
    >> place to create a newsgroup?

    >
    > Newsgroups can be recognized as valid on some servers but not
    > others--just because a group comes into existence on one server
    > doesn't mean that those connected to it will automatically accept the
    > existence of that new group. Postings to newsgroups can come from
    > anywhere in the world. Thus a newsgroup doesn't exist in any
    > particular place.


    I know this, that dosn't really answer the question but thanks.
    juicyjuice, Oct 23, 2006
    #18
  19. Dave

    juicyjuice Guest

    Craig Whitmore wrote:
    >> hmm, where is the newsgroup like nz.comp created then? In
    >> *cyberspace*? Does one not have to have a news-server in the first
    >> place to create a newsgroup? that other news-servers feed/replicate
    >> from?

    >
    > A group is created in the control messages (can be on any usenet
    > server - could be overseas) which then gets send around the world and
    > the group is created everywhere. I think IHUG have a feed from TC and
    > IHUG peer with a few other sites in NZ for smaller groups so thats
    > how the .nz groups get to TC.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Craig
    > Talking for Myself


    sorta answers the question.. you create a group on news-server (control
    messages, just tell said server what to do, same as if you were at it
    physically configing).. 'point-a' from there spreads through that servers'
    feed creating itself on every news-server that feeds from each feed.. (I'm
    just making this up, tell me if i'm wrong) - now so this is a 2 lane road
    that will feed posts up the road to everyone and back down from everyone
    who's connected to other servers posting... BUT what if the host that
    originally created the group, delete's it? are they authorative? or once its
    created the other servers don't care if the original drops off or dies..
    hope this makes sense lol
    juicyjuice, Oct 23, 2006
    #19
  20. Dave

    Earl Grey Guest

    Craig Whitmore wrote:
    >>>

    >> Paradise used to peer at WIX until Telstraclear decided that they would
    >> make more money by de-peering.

    >
    > Network Peering and NNTP Peering have nothing to do with each other really.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    >

    Except its part of the same mindset
    Telstraclear could be accessing nntp peers in nz through network peering.
    Earl Grey, Oct 23, 2006
    #20
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