Paradise group download in progress

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Ray Colvill, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. Ray Colvill

    Ray Colvill Guest

    When i want to look at my newsgroups i would prefer to look at them right
    now.

    Not 20 minutes later after group download is finished it run.

    This is not a service, it a cheap and nasty cost saving measure.

    What do you think.



    Protected by GIANT Company's Spam Inspector
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    Ray Colvill, Aug 25, 2005
    #1
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  2. Ray Colvill

    nospam Guest

    "Ray Colvill" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > When i want to look at my newsgroups i would prefer to look at them right
    > now.
    >
    > Not 20 minutes later after group download is finished it run.
    >
    > This is not a service, it a cheap and nasty cost saving measure.
    >
    > What do you think.
    >

    I've not noticed any problems. It downloads the list once and then never has
    to do it again. On my cable internet it only took a few seconds. On dial up
    it might take a while, but you'll only need to do it once.

    What makes you think its a cheap nasty cost saving measure on Paradise's
    behalf? I also use other news servers, and they all behave like this.
     
    nospam, Aug 25, 2005
    #2
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  3. Ray Colvill

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Ray Colvill" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > When i want to look at my newsgroups i would prefer to look at them right
    > now.
    >
    > Not 20 minutes later after group download is finished it run.
    >
    > This is not a service, it a cheap and nasty cost saving measure.
    >
    > What do you think.


    Have you thought about trying out ihug?
    I hear their service is pretty good.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Aug 25, 2005
    #3
  4. Ray Colvill

    XP Guest

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:49:28 +1200, "nospam" <> wrote:

    >"Ray Colvill" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> When i want to look at my newsgroups i would prefer to look at them right
    >> now.
    >>
    >> Not 20 minutes later after group download is finished it run.
    >>
    >> This is not a service, it a cheap and nasty cost saving measure.
    >>
    >> What do you think.
    >>

    >I've not noticed any problems. It downloads the list once and then never has
    >to do it again. On my cable internet it only took a few seconds. On dial up
    >it might take a while, but you'll only need to do it once.
    >
    >What makes you think its a cheap nasty cost saving measure on Paradise's
    >behalf? I also use other news servers, and they all behave like this.
    >




    Would be better if he used a Decent News Reader..

    Try Free Agent
     
    XP, Aug 25, 2005
    #4
  5. Ray Colvill

    Dave Taylor Guest

    "Ray Colvill" <> wrote in news:430d5ae3
    @clear.net.nz:

    > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670
    > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670


    This application can be tamed for use with news groups once you learn how
    to use it to its' full potential.

    See http://www.slyck.com
    http://www.slyck.com/ng.php

    You should download all the headers ONCE, then have them saved. The next
    time you just need to download the new headers. Bodies can be done later
    if you wish to save time up front and be selective.

    Xnews allows you to set ranges of posts to retrieve and other clients
    listed in this thread allow even fancier things.

    I use X-News myself, I have heard Gravity and Xananews are also good.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
     
    Dave Taylor, Aug 25, 2005
    #5
  6. On 25 Aug 2005 18:36:06 +1200, Dave Taylor
    <> wrote:

    >"Ray Colvill" <> wrote in news:430d5ae3
    >@clear.net.nz:
    >
    >> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670
    >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670

    >
    >This application can be tamed for use with news groups once you learn how
    >to use it to its' full potential.
    >
    >See http://www.slyck.com
    >http://www.slyck.com/ng.php
    >
    >You should download all the headers ONCE, then have them saved. The next
    >time you just need to download the new headers. Bodies can be done later
    >if you wish to save time up front and be selective.
    >
    >Xnews allows you to set ranges of posts to retrieve and other clients
    >listed in this thread allow even fancier things.
    >
    >I use X-News myself, I have heard Gravity and Xananews are also good.


    Dave, I think you and "XP" are missing the original point. It's not
    the fact that downloading message headers is slow, it that when you
    select a new newsgroup on Paradise, there is only one new message,
    telling you that THEY are now going to download the message headers
    (from their upstream feed, I guess).

    You have to wait for that, and THEN download the message headers
    yourself. That was what I experienced the other day when I subscribed
    to a French language cycling newsgroup.

    I believe that is what Ray is talking about. Apologies if I'm wrong.

    Bye,
    James
     
    James McLaughlin, Aug 25, 2005
    #6
  7. Ray Colvill

    Dave Taylor Guest

    James McLaughlin <> wrote in
    news:p:

    > Dave, I think you and "XP" are missing the original point. It's not
    > the fact that downloading message headers is slow, it that when you
    > select a new newsgroup on Paradise, there is only one new message,
    > telling you that THEY are now going to download the message headers
    > (from their upstream feed, I guess).
    >
    > You have to wait for that, and THEN download the message headers
    > yourself. That was what I experienced the other day when I subscribed
    > to a French language cycling newsgroup.
    >
    > I believe that is what Ray is talking about. Apologies if I'm wrong.
    >
    > Bye,
    > James


    AAH, well that is different altogether. Call their support and suggest
    they fix it!
    Maybe they could purchase some spindles for their NNTP server so they can
    actually cache properly.
    NNTP Retention in NZ sucks AFIAK, but only because the ISPs do not commit
    resources to it.
    Not only is retention poor, but when you move the retention to your own
    server by using something like hamster, it still sucks, because your ISP
    filters groups.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
     
    Dave Taylor, Aug 25, 2005
    #7
  8. Ray Colvill

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <1124950374.186311@ftpsrv1>, scrooge@*shot.co.nz says...
    >
    > "Ray Colvill" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > When i want to look at my newsgroups i would prefer to look at them right
    > > now.
    > >
    > > Not 20 minutes later after group download is finished it run.
    > >
    > > This is not a service, it a cheap and nasty cost saving measure.
    > >
    > > What do you think.

    >
    > Have you thought about trying out ihug?
    > I hear their service is pretty good.


    How many groups do they carry?

    Paradise does about 79,888 - last count.

    --
    Duncan
     
    Dave Doe, Aug 25, 2005
    #8
  9. Ray Colvill

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Dave Doe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <1124950374.186311@ftpsrv1>, scrooge@*shot.co.nz says...
    >>
    >> "Ray Colvill" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > When i want to look at my newsgroups i would prefer to look at them
    >> > right
    >> > now.
    >> >
    >> > Not 20 minutes later after group download is finished it run.
    >> >
    >> > This is not a service, it a cheap and nasty cost saving measure.
    >> >
    >> > What do you think.

    >>
    >> Have you thought about trying out ihug?
    >> I hear their service is pretty good.

    >
    > How many groups do they carry?
    >
    > Paradise does about 79,888 - last count.
    >
    > --
    > Duncan


    About 10,000 if you're lucky. They've had a big clean out dumping all
    binaries.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Aug 25, 2005
    #9
  10. Ray Colvill

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:49:28 +1200, in message
     <430d5be0$>, nospam wrote:

    > "Ray Colvill" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > When i want to look at my newsgroups i would prefer to look at them right
    > > now.
    > >
    > > Not 20 minutes later after group download is finished it run.
    > >
    > > This is not a service, it a cheap and nasty cost saving measure.
    > >
    > > What do you think.
    > >

    > I've not noticed any problems. It downloads the list once and then never has
    > to do it again. On my cable internet it only took a few seconds. On dial up
    > it might take a while, but you'll only need to do it once.


    Ray isn't referring to downloading the newsgroup list.

    When you select a new group on Paradise, often instead of
    being able to download the headers, you get a single message
    like this.

    | From: DNEWS
    | Subject: Group download in progress...
    | Date: 4 Jan 2005 03:27:57 +1300
    | Path: newsfeed.internetmci.com!decwrl!news.demon.co.uk!enews.sgi.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!waikato!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!sunsite.dco.ic.ac.uk
    | Expires: 5 Mar 2005 16:27:57 +1300
    | Message-ID: <>
    | Distribution: local
    | Followup-To: local.news
    | Newsgroups: alt.example
    |
    | Dear user, This group is not locally stored, but now due to your
    | request it is being downloaded. Articles should be available in a
    | few minutes. To see a progress report you will have to re-read
    | this article, you may have to set the item as 'unread' or even
    | restart your news software to cause this article to be reloaded.
    |
    | DNEWS Home page http://netwinsite.com
    | DNEWS FTP site ftp://netwinsite.com/dnews


    The headers are available maybe 10 minutes later.

    I have some subscribed groups which have several of these messages.
    Evidently the Paradise server had forgotten about the group,
    even though I pull headers regularly.


    > What makes you think its a cheap nasty cost saving measure on Paradise's
    > behalf?


    Quote: "This group is not locally stored".

    Plus experience that the server ceases to store some groups
    and instead generates another of these messages in the group.


    > I also use other news servers, and they all behave like this.


    The old Paradise server never produced messages like this.
    It always produced the message list immediately.


    --
    Cheers
    Ralph

    Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? Who knows? Who cares?
     
    Ralph Fox, Aug 25, 2005
    #10
  11. Ray Colvill

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:23:10 +1200, in message
     <1124968905.339452@ftpsrv1>, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote:

    > "Dave Doe" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > In article <1124950374.186311@ftpsrv1>, scrooge@*shot.co.nz says...


    --snip--

    > >> Have you thought about trying out ihug?
    > >> I hear their service is pretty good.

    > >
    > > How many groups do they carry?
    > >
    > > Paradise does about 79,888 - last count.

    >
    > About 10,000 if you're lucky. They've had a big clean out dumping all
    > binaries.


    The only good thing about the new Paradise server (i.e. Clear's)
    is that now that they are sucking from giganews, binary
    completion seems better in some groups.

    And judging by the intermittent updates and the message which the
    OP referred to, I'd guess that it _is_ a suck feed.


    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph

    "There is only one boss, the customer. And he can fire everybody in
    the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money
    somewhere else." -- Sam Walton
     
    Ralph Fox, Aug 25, 2005
    #11
  12. Ray Colvill

    Phstpok Guest

    Ralph Fox stubbed out the damp squib on 25/08/2005 11:54 p.m.and tried
    to bring to our attention, this pearl of wisdom:
    > On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:23:10 +1200, in message
    > <1124968905.339452@ftpsrv1>, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Dave Doe" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>
    >>>In article <1124950374.186311@ftpsrv1>, scrooge@*shot.co.nz says...

    >
    >
    > --snip--
    >
    >
    >>>>Have you thought about trying out ihug?
    >>>>I hear their service is pretty good.
    >>>
    >>>How many groups do they carry?
    >>>
    >>>Paradise does about 79,888 - last count.

    >>

    Just did a refresh (cable, 2.35 min dl time) got 79,905 but not sure how
    well I filtered headers and footers. (counted in ms word)

    Phstpok
     
    Phstpok, Aug 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Ray Colvill

    Tony Guest

    E. Scrooge wrote:
    > "Ray Colvill" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>When i want to look at my newsgroups i would prefer to look at them right
    >>now.
    >>
    >>Not 20 minutes later after group download is finished it run.
    >>
    >>This is not a service, it a cheap and nasty cost saving measure.
    >>
    >>What do you think.

    >


    OK, you obviously have no clue what is involved with running a "full
    feed" news server. To keep a full feed news server updated you could
    certainly use 25Mb/s of international traffic 24x7, that's 15-20k/month
    worth. Dnews is a good compromise as it is far more efficient and very
    little inconvenience to the end user. Put it this way, pretty much no
    ISP in this country would waste all that money just because you are
    impatient.
     
    Tony, Aug 29, 2005
    #13
  14. Ray Colvill

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:09:19 +1200, in message
     <4312441f$>, Tony wrote:

    > E. Scrooge wrote:


    --snip--

    > OK, you obviously have no clue what is involved with running a "full
    > feed" news server.


    --snip--

    Scrooge can't even see your followup, due to a failure of the
    Paradise/Clear news server.
    1. The Paradise news server stopped exchanging messages
    with any other news servers, around 5pm Saturday.
    2. Scrooge is on Ihug.


    This failure happens far too regularly. Sometimes ISTM that Paradise/Clear
    also lack such clues.


    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph

    "There is only one boss, the customer. And he can fire everybody in
    the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money
    somewhere else." -- Sam Walton
     
    Ralph Fox, Aug 29, 2005
    #14
  15. Ray Colvill

    Max Burke Guest

    > Dave Taylor scribbled:

    >> James McLaughlin <> wrote in


    snip....

    > AAH, well that is different altogether. Call their support and
    > suggest they fix it!


    Yeah RIIIIGGGGHHHHTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The usual response is:

    There's nothing wrong with the server, it's your computer....
    Then insist (with a condescending attitude that you no nothing about your
    computer) they'll only help if you go through settings on your browser, your
    dial settings, email settings, etc, etc, etc.....

    [posting from my backup IHUG logon]
    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Aug 29, 2005
    #15
  16. Ralph Fox wrote:

    >
    > Scrooge can't even see your followup, due to a failure of the
    > Paradise/Clear news server.
    > 1. The Paradise news server stopped exchanging messages
    > with any other news servers, around 5pm Saturday.
    > 2. Scrooge is on Ihug.
    >
    >
    > This failure happens far too regularly. Sometimes ISTM that Paradise/Clear
    > also lack such clues.
    >
    >


    A-Ha! So the North Island wasn't hit by a giant meteorite. Five posts
    when there would normally be 200.......

    A L P
     
    Agnes Volestrangler XIII, Aug 29, 2005
    #16
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