Panorama photography / widely variable light - solution??

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Destin_FL, Jun 19, 2006.

  1. Destin_FL

    Destin_FL Guest

    Hi all,
    If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus head,
    having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is fantastic.
    Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and output a
    ..MOV and its really beautiful.

    BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to be
    able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If it
    wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows blow
    out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I can't
    let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in all
    its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.

    So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the stitching
    works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it spins
    past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through the
    room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it doesn't
    matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever, none of
    them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered to see
    outside.

    Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101 wild
    one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
    wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
    capturing the interiors/rooms right....

    Any ideas??

    Tim
     
    Destin_FL, Jun 19, 2006
    #1
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  2. On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:57:50 -0500, Destin_FL <> wrote:
    > Hi all,
    > If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus head,
    > having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is fantastic.
    > Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and output a
    > .MOV and its really beautiful.
    >
    > BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to be
    > able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If it
    > wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows blow
    > out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I can't
    > let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in all
    > its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.
    >
    > So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the stitching
    > works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it spins
    > past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through the
    > room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it doesn't
    > matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever, none of
    > them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered to see
    > outside.


    Two solutions come immediately to mind:
    1) If you aren't already, shoot in RAW, and hope that there's enough
    dynamic range to capture everything. Meter for the out-the-window
    highlights, and pull the inside parts up out of the shadows.

    2) If that doesn't work, do two sets of shots. One, metering for the
    inside. A second set, in register with the first, of the windows,
    metering for the outside. Easiest way to do this would be to do
    a bracketed set of exposures at each camera position. Composite in
    Photoshop before stitching into a VR movie.

    -dms
     
    Daniel Silevitch, Jun 19, 2006
    #2
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  3. Destin_FL <> wrote:

    : Is the only solution one of these
    : http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101 wild one shot VR lens
    : things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera wouldn't know
    : how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's capturing
    : the interiors/rooms right....

    Here's the problem. If the camera is metering on the bright outside,
    anything in the same image of the inside will be dark. If the camera
    meters on the inside, everything of the outside in the same image will be
    blown. There are at least two solutions I can see. Either you can balance
    the lighting levels for both indoors and outdoors, or you can shoot two
    seperate images that you then edit together later. One image metered to
    the outside lighting levels and one metered to the indoor conditions.

    In the former case (balancing) you can use bright lights indoors that will
    allow the light levels to be close or match in intensity for the two
    areas. Or you could try using a darkening film (like used for tinted
    windows) to darken the outdoor view to something closer to the indoor
    lighting. Or you can wait until the outdoor lighting is closer to the
    indoor lighting (which explains why so many similar images show a
    beautiful sunrise or sundown through the window).

    One idea. Go outside and lean back against the window and take an image or
    what you would see outside the window. Then when you go inside keep the
    same lens focal length, meter for the indoor lighting and make your
    panorama. Then in Photoshop put the outside photo in the background, with
    the inside image in the foreground. Cut out the window panes carefully,
    exposing the properly exposed outdoor view.

    Randy

    ==========
    Randy Berbaum
    Champaign, IL
     
    Randy Berbaum, Jun 19, 2006
    #3
  4. Destin_FL

    Keith Guest

    Destin_FL <> wrote:

    > Hi all, If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the
    > Panosaurus head, having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm,
    > man it is fantastic. Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City
    > Panorama Factory, and output a .MOV and its really beautiful.
    >
    > BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to
    > be able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf.
    > If it wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the
    > windows blow out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be
    > fine. But I can't let the windows blow out because I need to be showing
    > the Gulf (Destin) in all its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior
    > room metered right.
    >
    > So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the
    > stitching works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for
    > itself as it spins past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins
    > into and through the room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant
    > light intensity it doesn't matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted
    > area, matrix, whatever, none of them capture the room correctly metered or
    > the windows correctly metered to see outside.
    >
    > Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101
    > wild one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the
    > camera wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out
    > if it's capturing the interiors/rooms right....
    >
    > Any ideas??
    >
    > Tim


    Always shoot manual everything for panos - exposure, wb and focus. For
    this case simply expose one pano for the interior and another for the
    windows, stitch the two separate panos and then merge with something
    like Photomatix or the HDR function in Photoshop.

    Metering mode is irrelevant - with manual aperture and shutter speed
    selection use your head and check the histogram.

    For an example of a solution to your problem have a look at this web
    page:

    http://www.hdrsoft.com/
     
    Keith, Jun 19, 2006
    #4
  5. Destin_FL

    Rudy Benner Guest

    "Destin_FL" <> wrote in message
    news:Hwnlg.8250$f76.3345@dukeread06...
    > Hi all,
    > If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus
    > head,
    > having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is
    > fantastic.
    > Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and
    > output a
    > .MOV and its really beautiful.
    >
    > BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to
    > be
    > able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If
    > it
    > wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows
    > blow
    > out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I
    > can't
    > let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in
    > all
    > its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.
    >
    > So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the
    > stitching
    > works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it
    > spins
    > past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through
    > the
    > room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it
    > doesn't
    > matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever,
    > none of
    > them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered
    > to see
    > outside.
    >
    > Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101
    > wild
    > one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
    > wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
    > capturing the interiors/rooms right....
    >
    > Any ideas??
    >
    > Tim
    >
    >


    Thanks for the tip on the Panosaurus head, just what I needed. I have
    ordered mine.

    Software I use is PTGui. Excellent. The Panosaurus head will take care of
    the foreground parallax problem.

    R.
     
    Rudy Benner, Jun 19, 2006
    #5
  6. Destin_FL

    Scott W Guest

    Destin_FL wrote:
    > Hi all,
    > If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus head,
    > having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is fantastic.
    > Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and output a
    > .MOV and its really beautiful.
    >
    > BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to be
    > able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If it
    > wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows blow
    > out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I can't
    > let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in all
    > its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.
    >
    > So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the stitching
    > works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it spins
    > past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through the
    > room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it doesn't
    > matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever, none of
    > them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered to see
    > outside.
    >
    > Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101 wild
    > one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
    > wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
    > capturing the interiors/rooms right....
    >
    > Any ideas??

    Shooting a room and having the outside not blown is pretty tricky but
    can be done with a bit of work and a few slave flash units. There are
    fairly cheap slaves flash strobes that you can screw into a light bulb
    socket, they mostly need some find of diffuser in front of them
    however. When using a flash to do panoramic shots it works best if the
    camera strobe is set to very low power, just enough to trigger the
    slaves.

    It is also possible to just use manual setting and meter on the outside
    and then pull up the inside later. This shot was done with very low
    light inside the cabin and I had to make large adjustment to balance
    the inside to the outside using Photoshop.
    http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/61769435/large

    Scott
     
    Scott W, Jun 19, 2006
    #6
  7. Destin_FL

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Rudy Benner wrote:
    > "Destin_FL" <> wrote in message
    > news:Hwnlg.8250$f76.3345@dukeread06...
    >> Hi all,
    >> If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus
    >> head,
    >> having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is
    >> fantastic.
    >> Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and
    >> output a
    >> .MOV and its really beautiful.
    >>
    >> BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to
    >> be
    >> able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If
    >> it
    >> wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows
    >> blow
    >> out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I
    >> can't
    >> let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in
    >> all
    >> its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.
    >>
    >> So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the
    >> stitching
    >> works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it
    >> spins
    >> past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through
    >> the
    >> room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it
    >> doesn't
    >> matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever,
    >> none of
    >> them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered
    >> to see
    >> outside.
    >>
    >> Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101
    >> wild
    >> one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
    >> wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
    >> capturing the interiors/rooms right....
    >>
    >> Any ideas??
    >>
    >> Tim
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Thanks for the tip on the Panosaurus head, just what I needed. I have
    > ordered mine.
    >
    > Software I use is PTGui. Excellent. The Panosaurus head will take care of
    > the foreground parallax problem.
    >
    > R.
    >
    >

    The light problem is solved by one of two methods, either setting the
    camera on manual, or correcting for lighting variations before arranging
    them in the panorama. Better 'pano' programs will balance light from
    shot to shot.
     
    Ron Hunter, Jun 20, 2006
    #7
  8. Ron Hunter <> wrote:

    : The light problem is solved by one of two methods, either setting the
    : camera on manual, or correcting for lighting variations before arranging
    : them in the panorama. Better 'pano' programs will balance light from
    : shot to shot.

    True but if both the indoor and outdoor segments are in the same image I
    don't know how many programs can repair extremely different light
    conditions on segments within a single image. I guess that there could be
    some slight adjustments under auto controls. But personally I wouldn't
    count on any program being able to correct the sunny day scene outside a
    window in an image exposed for the indoor lighting conditions. Blown is
    blown.

    IMHO

    Randy

    ==========
    Randy Berbaum
    Champaign, IL
     
    Randy Berbaum, Jun 20, 2006
    #8
  9. Destin_FL

    Guest

    Destin_FL wrote:
    > BUT.... [...] I can't
    > let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in all
    > its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.


    I'd say that even shooting RAW, dynamic range would be too huge.
    Strobes could be an answer, but be very careful NOT to move them during
    the shot or you'll have some ugly differential lightings between the
    shots.

    The main solution I see is to make two exposures of each shot, without
    moving the camera (eg by strong bracketing : +2 and -2 or +3 and -3
    IE).
    Then, blend each image couple with Photoshop (see eg
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/digital-blending.shtml and
    do care for applying _constant_ parameters in the process from one
    image couple to another) to have a single set of HDR images, that you
    can now assemble as usual.


    > Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101 wild
    > one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
    > wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
    > capturing the interiors/rooms right....


    Simpler process : just two shots to blend as above, but much less
    output resolution (may not be a problem for web publishing) and 750$
    less in your wallet.
    Your call!
     
    , Jun 20, 2006
    #9
  10. Destin_FL

    Destin_FL Guest

    Hi all,
    Yeah, that's the deal... waaaaaaaaayyyy too much range in each individual shot.

    Hey, Scott, are you still around??
    On the shot you did http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/61769435/large for
    this,
    where is all the light coming from fired at the ceiling right above the camera?
    Am I seeing that correctly?
    In the successful panos I've seen there does always seem to be this huge amount
    of light firing above the camera.

    Because my biggest worry is using slaves or multiple SB-600's - but then that
    always seem too directional which
    means I'd have these weird lighter areas in the 360 degrees. In the good panos
    I've seen just like yours, how do make
    the camera spin and never see the slaves, SB-600's, or tripods sitting around,
    and so I recognize that you have somewhere
    managed to get a ton of light into the room from right above the camera....????

    Thanks to all who have responded!

    Tim
     
    Destin_FL, Jun 20, 2006
    #10
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