Panasonic challenges Olympus for P&S mediocrity crown

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rich, Jul 24, 2007.

  1. Rich

    Rich Guest

    Rich, Jul 24, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Rich

    Scott W Guest

    Rich wrote:
    > 18x zoom. And of course the miserable, noisy, dynamic range"less" and
    > tiny 1/2.5" sensor. Why is it what most appeals to the uninformed is
    > always the worst choice possible? Where are the P&S cameras with high
    > quality 5x zooms and 2/3"s sensors?
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072402panasonicfz18.asp#specs
    >

    I believe that the inexpensive DSLRs have killed the market for really
    good P&S cameras.

    Scott
     
    Scott W, Jul 24, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Scott wrote on Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:29:36 -1000:

    SW> Rich wrote:
    ??>> 18x zoom. And of course the miserable, noisy, dynamic
    ??>> range"less" and tiny 1/2.5" sensor. Why is it what most
    ??>> appeals to the uninformed is always the worst choice
    ??>> possible? Where are the P&S cameras with high quality 5x
    ??>> zooms and 2/3"s sensors?
    ??>>
    ??>>
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072402panasonicfz18.asp#specs
    ??>>
    SW> I believe that the inexpensive DSLRs have killed the market
    SW> for really good P&S cameras.

    That's not my opinion :). I like a camera that I can put in my
    pocket and I suspect a lot of others do too. For this purpose I
    don't want a long zoom as long as it will go from moderate wide
    angle (28mm equiv) to about 100mm (equiv) and have optical
    stabilization. Being old fashioned, I like an optical finder
    since monitor screens still wash out in bright light.

    James Silverton
    Potomac, Maryland

    E-mail, with obvious alterations:
    not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
     
    James Silverton, Jul 24, 2007
    #3
  4. Rich

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Rich <> wrote:

    > 18x zoom. And of course the miserable, noisy, dynamic range"less" and
    > tiny 1/2.5" sensor. Why is it what most appeals to the uninformed is
    > always the worst choice possible? Where are the P&S cameras with high
    > quality 5x zooms and 2/3"s sensors?
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072402panasonicfz18.asp#specs


    I was looking at the Samsung NV line (the NV11 in particular), which
    seems to have nice optics (and nice optics, if you know what I mean).
    It's still a small sensor, though.

    --
    http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2007/070416_argument.html
     
    Paul Mitchum, Jul 24, 2007
    #4
  5. Rich

    Bob Williams Guest

    Rich wrote:
    > 18x zoom. And of course the miserable, noisy, dynamic range"less" and
    > tiny 1/2.5" sensor. Why is it what most appeals to the uninformed is
    > always the worst choice possible? Where are the P&S cameras with high
    > quality 5x zooms and 2/3"s sensors?
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072402panasonicfz18.asp#specs
    >


    Panasonic's new 7MP, L1, DSLR uses a 4/3" sensor and they will doubtless
    have Leica develop some great lenses for this size sensor.
    Now if they can use that experience to build a 7 MP, 4/3", P/S with an
    I.S. Superzoom like the FZ series,(I'll even settle for 6X) they will
    OWN the P/S market. I can dream, can't I?
    Bob Williams
     
    Bob Williams, Jul 24, 2007
    #5
  6. Scott W wrote:
    > Rich wrote:
    >> 18x zoom. And of course the miserable, noisy, dynamic range"less" and
    >> tiny 1/2.5" sensor. Why is it what most appeals to the uninformed is
    >> always the worst choice possible? Where are the P&S cameras with high
    >> quality 5x zooms and 2/3"s sensors?
    >>
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072402panasonicfz18.asp#specs
    >>

    > I believe that the inexpensive DSLRs have killed the market for really
    > good P&S cameras.


    Wait until Canon and Sony start supplying low noise CMOS sensors for the
    P&S market. Then the P&S segment might start taking a big chunk from
    DSLR sales.
     
    Michael Johnson, Jul 24, 2007
    #6
  7. Rich

    John Sheehy Guest

    Scott W <> wrote in news:46a63701$0$29690
    $:

    > I believe that the inexpensive DSLRs have killed the market for really
    > good P&S cameras.


    I have noticed in NYC that lately the typical photographer taking more than
    vacation snapshots is using a DSLR, usually a budget-end Nikon.

    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    John Sheehy, Jul 24, 2007
    #7
  8. Michael Johnson wrote:
    []
    > Wait until Canon and Sony start supplying low noise CMOS sensors for
    > the P&S market. Then the P&S segment might start taking a big chunk
    > from DSLR sales.


    I don't think that Canon will do that if it hits profits from their DSLRs
    and accessories.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 25, 2007
    #8
  9. Rich

    Hermit Guest

    "David J Taylor" <-this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk>
    wrote in message news:hiBpi.3621$...
    > Michael Johnson wrote:
    > []
    >> Wait until Canon and Sony start supplying low noise CMOS sensors for
    >> the P&S market. Then the P&S segment might start taking a big chunk
    >> from DSLR sales.

    >
    > I don't think that Canon will do that if it hits profits from their DSLRs
    > and accessories.
    >
    > David


    Absolutely!

    Sell a P&S - sell a camera.

    Sell a DSLR - sell the whole system.

    H
     
    Hermit, Jul 25, 2007
    #9
  10. Rich

    SMS Guest

    Hermit wrote:
    > "David J Taylor" <-this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk>
    > wrote in message news:hiBpi.3621$...
    >> Michael Johnson wrote:
    >> []
    >>> Wait until Canon and Sony start supplying low noise CMOS sensors for
    >>> the P&S market. Then the P&S segment might start taking a big chunk
    >>> from DSLR sales.

    >> I don't think that Canon will do that if it hits profits from their DSLRs
    >> and accessories.
    >>
    >> David

    >
    > Absolutely!
    >
    > Sell a P&S - sell a camera.
    >
    > Sell a DSLR - sell the whole system.


    At least Canon has said that they will be using their own CMOS sensors
    in some of their non-D-SLR cameras.

    I doubt if they think that it will hurt D-SLR sales, at least not as
    much as it will help P&S sales. The sensors may help the noise problem,
    but they'll do nothing for other P&S issues like shutter lag.
     
    SMS, Jul 25, 2007
    #10
  11. Rich

    SMS Guest

    David J Taylor wrote:
    > Michael Johnson wrote:
    > []
    >> Wait until Canon and Sony start supplying low noise CMOS sensors for
    >> the P&S market. Then the P&S segment might start taking a big chunk
    >> from DSLR sales.

    >
    > I don't think that Canon will do that if it hits profits from their DSLRs
    > and accessories.
    >
    > David


    "http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070715/tc_nm/canon_factory_dc"

    "The CMOS chips will be used in both single lens reflex (SLR) models as
    well as in some compact models. Canon's compact cameras have to date
    used a different type of image sensor called a charge-coupled device (CCD).

    Canon has procured CCDs from other suppliers such as Sony Corp.
    (6758.T), but it has been developing CMOS sensors for compact models as
    part of its strategy of bringing key component production in-house to
    lower costs."

    Kodak has now introduced a low-end CMOS sensor compact camera with their
    own CMOS sensor.
     
    SMS, Jul 25, 2007
    #11
  12. David J Taylor wrote:
    > Michael Johnson wrote:
    > []
    >> Wait until Canon and Sony start supplying low noise CMOS sensors for
    >> the P&S market. Then the P&S segment might start taking a big chunk
    >> from DSLR sales.

    >
    > I don't think that Canon will do that if it hits profits from their DSLRs
    > and accessories.


    I think the move to CMOS in P&S cameras is inevitable. The past 1-2
    years there has been a big push for higher ISO settings but with CCD
    sensors this is more a marketing ploy than a truly useful feature.
    People are finding this out when they push there P&S cameras to 800 or
    1600 ISO settings. Canon, Sony etc. need to continually improve the P&S
    models to keep sales high. CMOS sensors are one way to keep buyers
    coming back.

    Where this will possibly put a dent in DSLR sales is if they put CMOS
    sensors in cameras like the Canon S3 etc. All Canon cares about is
    profits and if they can sell more P&S units and a few less DSLRs but
    make more money overall they will consider it a victory. This also
    might allow them, and other DSLR camera makers, to keep the price of
    DSLRs higher by offering a mid range low noise P&S option.

    Sony and Canon have announced the move toward CMOS sensors in their P&S
    lines. Since Sony sells sensors to other camera manufacturers I expect
    they will start showing up in numerous models over the few years.
     
    Michael Johnson, Jul 25, 2007
    #12
  13. Rich

    JohnR66 Guest

    "Scott W" <> wrote in message
    news:46a63701$0$29690$...
    > Rich wrote:
    >> 18x zoom. And of course the miserable, noisy, dynamic range"less" and
    >> tiny 1/2.5" sensor. Why is it what most appeals to the uninformed is
    >> always the worst choice possible? Where are the P&S cameras with high
    >> quality 5x zooms and 2/3"s sensors?
    >>
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072402panasonicfz18.asp#specs
    >>

    > I believe that the inexpensive DSLRs have killed the market for really
    > good P&S cameras.
    >
    > Scott


    Then camera makers are leaving a hole in the market as there are some people
    who want a nice P&S with good image quality. I'd love to see a 7mp 2/3"
    sensor P&S with a 3 or 4x zoom lens of good quality. I don't like to lug the
    SLR and lenses all the time, but I sure would like to sharpen and adjust
    the gamma without pulling up a bunch of noise. I found I can't sharpen
    photos from a 1/2.5" sensored modern camera. The edge detailes come out
    mottled looking.

    Canon's A630 is a good example of one of the few remaining good P&S. Thanks
    to the contrast and sharpness control, you can turn both down and get really
    nice picture out of it. At low ISOs they can rival a DSLR. Images handle
    sharpening and other post processing much better. You still can't beat a
    DSLR when shooting at ISO 400 or more.
    John
     
    JohnR66, Jul 25, 2007
    #13
  14. Michael Johnson wrote:
    []
    > I think the move to CMOS in P&S cameras is inevitable. The past 1-2
    > years there has been a big push for higher ISO settings but with CCD
    > sensors this is more a marketing ploy than a truly useful feature.
    > People are finding this out when they push there P&S cameras to 800 or
    > 1600 ISO settings. Canon, Sony etc. need to continually improve the
    > P&S models to keep sales high. CMOS sensors are one way to keep
    > buyers coming back.


    What speed (ISO) gain does CMOS offer over CCD?

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 25, 2007
    #14
  15. JohnR66 wrote:
    []
    > Then camera makers are leaving a hole in the market as there are some
    > people who want a nice P&S with good image quality. I'd love to see a
    > 7mp 2/3" sensor P&S with a 3 or 4x zoom lens of good quality.


    Perhaps you can still find the Nikon 8400 and 8800? Close to your specs -
    except 8MP rather than 7MP.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 25, 2007
    #15
  16. David J Taylor wrote:
    > Michael Johnson wrote:
    > []
    >> I think the move to CMOS in P&S cameras is inevitable. The past 1-2
    >> years there has been a big push for higher ISO settings but with CCD
    >> sensors this is more a marketing ploy than a truly useful feature.
    >> People are finding this out when they push there P&S cameras to 800 or
    >> 1600 ISO settings. Canon, Sony etc. need to continually improve the
    >> P&S models to keep sales high. CMOS sensors are one way to keep
    >> buyers coming back.

    >
    > What speed (ISO) gain does CMOS offer over CCD?


    It's not so much speed as it is reduced levels of noise. Using a
    current P&S at ISO 1600 is about useless. With CMOS sensors the lower
    noise levels should make this setting more useful.
     
    Michael Johnson, Jul 25, 2007
    #16
  17. Michael Johnson wrote:
    > David J Taylor wrote:
    >> Michael Johnson wrote:
    >> []
    >>> I think the move to CMOS in P&S cameras is inevitable. The past 1-2
    >>> years there has been a big push for higher ISO settings but with CCD
    >>> sensors this is more a marketing ploy than a truly useful feature.
    >>> People are finding this out when they push there P&S cameras to 800
    >>> or 1600 ISO settings. Canon, Sony etc. need to continually improve
    >>> the P&S models to keep sales high. CMOS sensors are one way to keep
    >>> buyers coming back.

    >>
    >> What speed (ISO) gain does CMOS offer over CCD?

    >
    > It's not so much speed as it is reduced levels of noise. Using a
    > current P&S at ISO 1600 is about useless. With CMOS sensors the lower
    > noise levels should make this setting more useful.


    OK, let me rephrase that:
    By how much is the ISO increased for the same signal-to-noise ratio?

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 25, 2007
    #17
  18. David J Taylor wrote:
    > Michael Johnson wrote:
    >> David J Taylor wrote:
    >>> Michael Johnson wrote:
    >>> []
    >>>> I think the move to CMOS in P&S cameras is inevitable. The past 1-2
    >>>> years there has been a big push for higher ISO settings but with CCD
    >>>> sensors this is more a marketing ploy than a truly useful feature.
    >>>> People are finding this out when they push there P&S cameras to 800
    >>>> or 1600 ISO settings. Canon, Sony etc. need to continually improve
    >>>> the P&S models to keep sales high. CMOS sensors are one way to keep
    >>>> buyers coming back.
    >>> What speed (ISO) gain does CMOS offer over CCD?

    >> It's not so much speed as it is reduced levels of noise. Using a
    >> current P&S at ISO 1600 is about useless. With CMOS sensors the lower
    >> noise levels should make this setting more useful.

    >
    > OK, let me rephrase that:
    > By how much is the ISO increased for the same signal-to-noise ratio?


    Why don't you give me the answer since you already seen to know it.
     
    Michael Johnson, Jul 25, 2007
    #18
  19. Michael Johnson wrote:
    > David J Taylor wrote:
    >> Michael Johnson wrote:
    >>> David J Taylor wrote:
    >>>> Michael Johnson wrote:
    >>>> []
    >>>>> I think the move to CMOS in P&S cameras is inevitable. The past
    >>>>> 1-2 years there has been a big push for higher ISO settings but
    >>>>> with CCD sensors this is more a marketing ploy than a truly
    >>>>> useful feature. People are finding this out when they push there
    >>>>> P&S cameras to 800 or 1600 ISO settings. Canon, Sony etc. need
    >>>>> to continually improve the P&S models to keep sales high. CMOS
    >>>>> sensors are one way to keep buyers coming back.
    >>>> What speed (ISO) gain does CMOS offer over CCD?
    >>> It's not so much speed as it is reduced levels of noise. Using a
    >>> current P&S at ISO 1600 is about useless. With CMOS sensors the
    >>> lower noise levels should make this setting more useful.

    >>
    >> OK, let me rephrase that:
    >> By how much is the ISO increased for the same signal-to-noise
    >> ratio?

    >
    > Why don't you give me the answer since you already seen to know it.


    I am asking because I don't know.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 25, 2007
    #19
  20. Rich

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>, Michael
    Johnson says...

    > It's not so much speed as it is reduced levels of noise. Using a
    > current P&S at ISO 1600 is about useless. With CMOS sensors the lower
    > noise levels should make this setting more useful.


    CMOS sensor do not necessarily have lower noise levels than CCDs. In
    fact lots of CMOS sensor have horrible noise levels. Before Canon
    introduced their line of low noise CMOS sensors, CMOS sensors were cheap
    high noise sensors used in cheap devices.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E3X0, E4X0 and E5X0 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Alfred Molon, Jul 25, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Mark Knight
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,636
    Mark Knight
    Oct 13, 2005
  2. Plato

    Queen or Crown

    Plato, Dec 14, 2004, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    699
    Plato
    Dec 16, 2004
  3. GreenieLeBrun

    Gates loses his crown to a Mexican

    GreenieLeBrun, Jul 4, 2007, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    555
    ClueLess
    Jul 7, 2007
  4. Nova

    budget CPU takes crown

    Nova, May 11, 2006, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    501
    ~misfit~
    May 12, 2006
  5. Giuen
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,425
    Giuen
    Sep 12, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page