P4 of AMD64

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by -[Myth]-, Feb 19, 2005.

  1. -[Myth]-

    -[Myth]- Guest

    Am thinking about a new system, and can't decide whether to go for a P4
    ~2.8GHZ or an AMD 64 (socket 754) 3200+. According to pricespy the prices
    are similar. I would use it mostly for games and normal everyday stuff
    (web, email etc). I would also like to try out some 64-bit programming but
    that isn't really a priority. What would you guys recommend?
    Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?
    TIA
    -[Myth]-, Feb 19, 2005
    #1
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  2. -[Myth]-

    Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:10:17 +1300, -[Myth]- wrote:

    > Am thinking about a new system, and can't decide whether to go for a P4
    > ~2.8GHZ or an AMD 64 (socket 754) 3200+. According to pricespy the prices
    > are similar.


    IMHO, you would be better off getting an AMD64, but with the newer socket
    configuration (numbered 9-something-something) because if you are wanting
    to upgrade your CPU in the future this socket has the better/faster
    feature set than the 754 socket - especially when the dual core AMD CPUs
    become affordable.

    I feel that 64bit computing is the way of the future.

    Also the AMD64s run considerably cooler than do the Intel P4s - and that's
    always better.

    Also, the AMD64 natively runs instructions from both 64bit AND 32bit
    Operating Systems and programmes.


    > I would use it mostly for games and normal everyday stuff
    > (web, email etc). I would also like to try out some 64-bit programming but
    > that isn't really a priority.


    If you don't have a 64bit system then you cannot try out 64bit stuff.

    I myself am using an AMD64 3200+ (socket 754) box running Linux (Mandrake
    10 - 64bit version). It works like a dream.


    > What would you guys recommend?
    > Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?


    Yes - depending on which type of AGP card you are using. You will need to
    know whether it is an AGP-2, AGP-4, or AGP-8 card in order to know if it
    will work in the new MOBO. This is true regardless of which MOBO/CPU you
    will buy.


    Divine

    --
    Computers are like air conditioners -- they stop working properly if you
    open WINDOWS
    , Feb 19, 2005
    #2
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  3. -[Myth]-

    -[Myth]- Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:26:29 +1300, wrote:

    > On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:10:17 +1300, -[Myth]- wrote:
    >
    >> Am thinking about a new system, and can't decide whether to go for a P4
    >> ~2.8GHZ or an AMD 64 (socket 754) 3200+. According to pricespy the prices
    >> are similar.

    >
    > IMHO, you would be better off getting an AMD64, but with the newer socket
    > configuration (numbered 9-something-something) because if you are wanting
    > to upgrade your CPU in the future this socket has the better/faster
    > feature set than the 754 socket - especially when the dual core AMD CPUs
    > become affordable.
    >
    > I feel that 64bit computing is the way of the future.
    >
    > Also the AMD64s run considerably cooler than do the Intel P4s - and that's
    > always better.
    >
    > Also, the AMD64 natively runs instructions from both 64bit AND 32bit
    > Operating Systems and programmes.
    >
    >
    >> I would use it mostly for games and normal everyday stuff
    >> (web, email etc). I would also like to try out some 64-bit programming but
    >> that isn't really a priority.

    >
    > If you don't have a 64bit system then you cannot try out 64bit stuff.
    >
    > I myself am using an AMD64 3200+ (socket 754) box running Linux (Mandrake
    > 10 - 64bit version). It works like a dream.
    >
    >
    >> What would you guys recommend?
    >> Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?

    >
    > Yes - depending on which type of AGP card you are using. You will need to
    > know whether it is an AGP-2, AGP-4, or AGP-8 card in order to know if it
    > will work in the new MOBO. This is true regardless of which MOBO/CPU you
    > will buy.
    >
    >
    > Divine


    I have a Radeon 8500 (4x AGP) but it is a bit old and i was planning to
    upgrade after a while anyway. However it seems that the amd64 motherboards
    only support either AGP or PCI-E, so maybe PCI-E (and a new card) is the
    way to go.
    -[Myth]-, Feb 19, 2005
    #3
  4. -[Myth]-

    A Guest

    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:58:23 GMT, (Matthew Poole)
    wrote:

    >In article <1kk9407ycov8a$.15tjrxtma6860$>, "-[Myth]-" <> wrote:
    >>Am thinking about a new system, and can't decide whether to go for a P4
    >>~2.8GHZ or an AMD 64 (socket 754) 3200+. According to pricespy the prices
    >>are similar. I would use it mostly for games and normal everyday stuff
    >>(web, email etc). I would also like to try out some 64-bit programming but
    >>that isn't really a priority. What would you guys recommend?
    >>Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?

    >
    >If you're going to go with AMD64, get an 939 rather than a 754. The 754
    >architecture is unlikely to be around for much longer. It also doesn't
    >do dual-channel memory.
    >Yes, your AGP card will work, though drivers can apparently be
    >problematic for XP64.
    >As far as programming goes, you need a 64-bit OS and compiler, and the
    >reality is that only FreeBSD can really offer you that. XP64 is still
    >in beta, and AFAIK there aren't any freely-available 64-bit compilers
    >for Windows.
    >
    >I'd advise the AMD64, since they handle 32-bit software and OSes just
    >fine, though run them rather faster than the Pentium equivalent, and
    >you're then ready to take advantage of 64-bit software when it's more
    >readily available.


    I wouldn't bother paying extra for 939 over 754 just to future-proof
    yourself for a little longer.

    How many people these days upgrade just the CPU without the
    motherboard?

    The OP is still using an AGP card and by the time he will want to
    upgrade it will be all PCI Express then.
    A, Feb 19, 2005
    #4
  5. In article <1kk9407ycov8a$.15tjrxtma6860$>, "-[Myth]-" <> wrote:
    >Am thinking about a new system, and can't decide whether to go for a P4
    >~2.8GHZ or an AMD 64 (socket 754) 3200+. According to pricespy the prices
    >are similar. I would use it mostly for games and normal everyday stuff
    >(web, email etc). I would also like to try out some 64-bit programming but
    >that isn't really a priority. What would you guys recommend?
    >Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?


    If you're going to go with AMD64, get an 939 rather than a 754. The 754
    architecture is unlikely to be around for much longer. It also doesn't
    do dual-channel memory.
    Yes, your AGP card will work, though drivers can apparently be
    problematic for XP64.
    As far as programming goes, you need a 64-bit OS and compiler, and the
    reality is that only FreeBSD can really offer you that. XP64 is still
    in beta, and AFAIK there aren't any freely-available 64-bit compilers
    for Windows.

    I'd advise the AMD64, since they handle 32-bit software and OSes just
    fine, though run them rather faster than the Pentium equivalent, and
    you're then ready to take advantage of 64-bit software when it's more
    readily available.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Feb 19, 2005
    #5
  6. -[Myth]-

    -[Myth]- Guest

    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:58:23 GMT, Matthew Poole wrote:

    > In article <1kk9407ycov8a$.15tjrxtma6860$>, "-[Myth]-" <> wrote:
    >>Am thinking about a new system, and can't decide whether to go for a P4
    >>~2.8GHZ or an AMD 64 (socket 754) 3200+. According to pricespy the prices
    >>are similar. I would use it mostly for games and normal everyday stuff
    >>(web, email etc). I would also like to try out some 64-bit programming but
    >>that isn't really a priority. What would you guys recommend?
    >>Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?

    >
    > If you're going to go with AMD64, get an 939 rather than a 754. The 754
    > architecture is unlikely to be around for much longer. It also doesn't
    > do dual-channel memory.
    > Yes, your AGP card will work, though drivers can apparently be
    > problematic for XP64.
    > As far as programming goes, you need a 64-bit OS and compiler, and the
    > reality is that only FreeBSD can really offer you that. XP64 is still
    > in beta, and AFAIK there aren't any freely-available 64-bit compilers
    > for Windows.
    >
    > I'd advise the AMD64, since they handle 32-bit software and OSes just
    > fine, though run them rather faster than the Pentium equivalent, and
    > you're then ready to take advantage of 64-bit software when it's more
    > readily available.


    Thanks for the help, I think i might go for the 64 with socket 939
    Can anyone recommend a good motherboard? I don't really need firewire or
    gigabit LAN but decent sound would be nice.
    TIA again
    -[Myth]-, Feb 19, 2005
    #6
  7. -[Myth]-

    ~misfit~ Guest

    A wrote:
    > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:58:23 GMT, (Matthew Poole)
    > wrote:
    >
    >> In article <1kk9407ycov8a$.15tjrxtma6860$>,
    >> "-[Myth]-" <> wrote:
    >>> Am thinking about a new system, and can't decide whether to go for
    >>> a P4 ~2.8GHZ or an AMD 64 (socket 754) 3200+. According to pricespy
    >>> the prices are similar. I would use it mostly for games and normal
    >>> everyday stuff (web, email etc). I would also like to try out some
    >>> 64-bit programming but that isn't really a priority. What would you
    >>> guys recommend?
    >>> Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?

    >>
    >> If you're going to go with AMD64, get an 939 rather than a 754. The
    >> 754
    >> architecture is unlikely to be around for much longer. It also
    >> doesn't
    >> do dual-channel memory.
    >> Yes, your AGP card will work, though drivers can apparently be
    >> problematic for XP64.
    >> As far as programming goes, you need a 64-bit OS and compiler, and
    >> the
    >> reality is that only FreeBSD can really offer you that. XP64 is
    >> still
    >> in beta, and AFAIK there aren't any freely-available 64-bit compilers
    >> for Windows.
    >>
    >> I'd advise the AMD64, since they handle 32-bit software and OSes just
    >> fine, though run them rather faster than the Pentium equivalent, and
    >> you're then ready to take advantage of 64-bit software when it's more
    >> readily available.

    >
    > I wouldn't bother paying extra for 939 over 754 just to future-proof
    > yourself for a little longer.
    >
    > How many people these days upgrade just the CPU without the
    > motherboard?


    Quite a few people that I know of, myself included if you buy a good (read =
    expensive) mobo in the first place.

    > The OP is still using an AGP card and by the time he will want to
    > upgrade it will be all PCI Express then.


    A new socket 939 board would be available with both AGP and PCI Express.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Feb 19, 2005
    #7
  8. -[Myth]-

    Impossible Guest

    "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    news:cv8cpv$hgj$...
    > In article <1kk9407ycov8a$.15tjrxtma6860$>, "-[Myth]-"
    > <> wrote:
    >>Am thinking about a new system, and can't decide whether to go for a P4
    >>~2.8GHZ or an AMD 64 (socket 754) 3200+. According to pricespy the prices
    >>are similar. I would use it mostly for games and normal everyday stuff
    >>(web, email etc). I would also like to try out some 64-bit programming but
    >>that isn't really a priority. What would you guys recommend?
    >>Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?

    >
    > If you're going to go with AMD64, get an 939 rather than a 754. The 754
    > architecture is unlikely to be around for much longer. It also doesn't
    > do dual-channel memory.


    Both points are valid. But have a look here for an estimate of what this all
    means in terms of actual performance.

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-3800.html

    Bottome line -- yes, the future is 939, but this is NOT primarily for
    reasons of performance. At best you're looking at a 3-5% improvement. So
    it's probably worth thinking carefully about whether the price premium on
    the 939 chips is worth paying today.
    Impossible, Feb 19, 2005
    #8
  9. In article <9q1z4iglg7c2.1sujibce86lcn$>, "-[Myth]-" <> wrote:
    >On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:58:23 GMT, Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >Thanks for the help, I think i might go for the 64 with socket 939
    >Can anyone recommend a good motherboard? I don't really need firewire or
    >gigabit LAN but decent sound would be nice.
    >TIA again


    Pretty much impossible to get them without 1394 and GigE, so I wouldn't
    spend too much time looking. The price difference will be very small,
    too. 6 and 7 channel sound is basically a given, though if you're
    really after good sound you'd be better off buying a board with a crap
    onboard chip and getting a quality sound card.
    Asus have been doing AMD64 boards for the longest, and have most of the
    bugs ironed out. My experiences with nForce chipset boards have been
    bad, but I also run OSes other than those annointed by Redmond.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Feb 20, 2005
    #9
  10. -[Myth]-

    Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:40:40 +1300, -[Myth]- wrote:

    >>> Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?

    >>
    >> Yes - depending on which type of AGP card you are using. You will need to
    >> know whether it is an AGP-2, AGP-4, or AGP-8 card in order to know if it
    >> will work in the new MOBO. This is true regardless of which MOBO/CPU you
    >> will buy.
    >>
    >>
    >> Divine

    >
    > I have a Radeon 8500 (4x AGP) but it is a bit old and i was planning to
    > upgrade after a while anyway. However it seems that the amd64 motherboards
    > only support either AGP or PCI-E, so maybe PCI-E (and a new card) is the
    > way to go.


    PCI-E is the new standard that is in the process of taking over from AGP.
    AGP is the current standard.

    ALL PCI-E gear is currently quite highly priced in comparison with AGP
    gear.

    An AGP-4 card should work in all new MOBOs - it's a voltage thing.

    I think that if money was not a factor, then you should go for PCI-E - the
    new standard. It will be around for much longer than AGP.

    I also think that when choosing which model of AMD64 chip you will buy,
    you should always favour more cache over (slightly) faster clock speed.


    Divine

    --
    Computers are like air conditioners -- they stop working properly if you
    open WINDOWS
    , Feb 20, 2005
    #10
  11. In article <>, A <> wrote:
    >On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:58:23 GMT, (Matthew Poole)
    >wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >How many people these days upgrade just the CPU without the
    >motherboard?
    >

    Quite a few. I've not long ago done a CPU-only upgrade. I'll possibly
    do another one, though I'm more likely to buy a 939 board and CPU
    together, which will get me a couple of upgrade cycles.
    There are still people out there who do component upgrades, y'know.
    Not everyone has a money tree with which to purchase entirely new
    components every time they feel the need for a change.

    >The OP is still using an AGP card and by the time he will want to
    >upgrade it will be all PCI Express then.
    >

    "Still using"? How many people AREN'T using? PCI-E cards are
    expensive and relatively rare, and only a few motherboards (with very
    expensive associated CPUs) have PCI-E16 slots.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Feb 20, 2005
    #11
  12. -[Myth]-

    Guest

    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:58:23 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:

    > As far as programming goes, you need a 64-bit OS and compiler, and the
    > reality is that only FreeBSD can really offer you that. XP64 is still
    > in beta, and AFAIK there aren't any freely-available 64-bit compilers
    > for Windows.


    64bit distributions of Linux (complete with GCC) are available and
    have been for some time now.

    Windows is the only OS that is not readily available for the AMD x86_64
    platform.

    I doubt if it will be ready for quite some time.


    Divine

    --
    Microsoft's reaction to DR DOS 5.0 is transparent. DR DOS 5.0 caught Microsoft
    personnel flat-footed. Mark Chestnut -- product manager for MS-DOS 5.0 until
    late 1990 -- testified that as of November 1989, the plan was simply to
    release a 4.1 upgrade product in 1990: "I didn't have any expectation that we
    would have a 5.0 product shipping in '90 after shipping a 4.1 product in '90,
    at that point." Indeed, Microsoft had only taken back DOS development from IBM
    a mere four months prior to the announcement of DR DOS 5.0.
    , Feb 20, 2005
    #12
  13. -[Myth]-

    Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:29:34 +1300, -[Myth]- wrote:

    >> I'd advise the AMD64, since they handle 32-bit software and OSes just
    >> fine, though run them rather faster than the Pentium equivalent, and
    >> you're then ready to take advantage of 64-bit software when it's more
    >> readily available.

    >
    > Thanks for the help, I think i might go for the 64 with socket 939
    > Can anyone recommend a good motherboard? I don't really need firewire or
    > gigabit LAN but decent sound would be nice.


    Gigabit LAN is nice to have for when you upgrade your LAN to gigabit speed
    -and it is *very* fast indeed. :eek:)

    If you want decent sound then you won't find that built onto a MOBO. You
    will be wanting to buy a sound card, such as an Audigy 2.

    Firewire is useful if you have (or are contemplating the purchase of) a
    digital camera.


    Divine

    --
    43 - for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the
    universe and everything.
    , Feb 20, 2005
    #13
  14. -[Myth]-

    Gurble Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:02:56 +1300, ""
    <> had this to say:

    >On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:40:40 +1300, -[Myth]- wrote:
    >
    >>>> Also can i use my existing AGP gfx card with a 64bit system?
    >>>
    >>> Yes - depending on which type of AGP card you are using. You will need to
    >>> know whether it is an AGP-2, AGP-4, or AGP-8 card in order to know if it
    >>> will work in the new MOBO. This is true regardless of which MOBO/CPU you
    >>> will buy.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Divine

    >>
    >> I have a Radeon 8500 (4x AGP) but it is a bit old and i was planning to
    >> upgrade after a while anyway. However it seems that the amd64 motherboards
    >> only support either AGP or PCI-E, so maybe PCI-E (and a new card) is the
    >> way to go.

    >
    >PCI-E is the new standard that is in the process of taking over from AGP.
    >AGP is the current standard.
    >
    >ALL PCI-E gear is currently quite highly priced in comparison with AGP
    >gear.
    >

    Are you referring to the graphics card or MoBo?

    PCIe Graphics Cards are generally cheaper than their AGP equivalent.
    Gurble, Feb 20, 2005
    #14
  15. -[Myth]-

    David Preece Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > As far as programming goes, you need a 64-bit OS and compiler, and the
    > reality is that only FreeBSD can really offer you that.


    Really? Sure this won't do the job? http://www.copyleft.co.nz/suse.html

    Dave
    David Preece, Feb 20, 2005
    #15
  16. -[Myth]-

    -[Myth]- Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:06:47 +1300, wrote:

    > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:58:23 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:
    >
    >> As far as programming goes, you need a 64-bit OS and compiler, and the
    >> reality is that only FreeBSD can really offer you that. XP64 is still
    >> in beta, and AFAIK there aren't any freely-available 64-bit compilers
    >> for Windows.

    >
    > 64bit distributions of Linux (complete with GCC) are available and
    > have been for some time now.
    >
    > Windows is the only OS that is not readily available for the AMD x86_64
    > platform.
    >
    > I doubt if it will be ready for quite some time.
    >
    >
    > Divine


    I would probably dual boot with windows and linux anyway so it is not too
    much of an issue.

    VS2005 will include a 64bit compiler when it comes out (June?)

    http://www.devx.com/amd/Article/21425
    -[Myth]-, Feb 20, 2005
    #16
  17. -[Myth]-

    Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:34:04 +1300, -[Myth]- wrote:

    > VS2005 will include a 64bit compiler when it comes out (June?)


    What is "VS2005"?

    The GCC C++ compiler is a good compiler.


    Divine

    --
    43 - for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the
    universe and everything.
    , Feb 20, 2005
    #17
  18. -[Myth]-

    Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:21:09 +1300, Gurble wrote:

    >>ALL PCI-E gear is currently quite highly priced in comparison with AGP
    >>gear.
    >>

    > Are you referring to the graphics card or MoBo?


    What part of the word "all" did you not understand?

    The PCI-E cards are cheap because there are few (read "no") reasonably
    priced MOBOs around presently. Thus it does not make financial sense,
    presently, to buy PCI-E gear.


    Divine

    --
    Computers are like air conditioners -- they stop working properly if you
    open WINDOWS
    , Feb 20, 2005
    #18
  19. -[Myth]-

    Gurble Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:11:30 +1300, ""
    <> had this to say:

    >On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:21:09 +1300, Gurble wrote:
    >
    >>>ALL PCI-E gear is currently quite highly priced in comparison with AGP
    >>>gear.
    >>>

    >> Are you referring to the graphics card or MoBo?

    >
    >What part of the word "all" did you not understand?


    Normally when someone says "all", they mean all. Since we're talking
    about graphics cards it would be fair to say that this is what you
    were talking about. However, you were incorrect. Either way, there's
    no need for sarcasm.

    >The PCI-E cards are cheap because there are few (read "no") reasonably
    >priced MOBOs around presently. Thus it does not make financial sense,
    >presently, to buy PCI-E gear.
    >

    A good motherboard with PCIe is not really much more than a good
    motherboard with AGP. True, there are very few "cheap and crappy" PCIe
    boards around, but if you're buying on price, the entire discussion is
    rather moot.
    Gurble, Feb 20, 2005
    #19
  20. -[Myth]-

    -[Myth]- Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:04:40 +1300, wrote:

    > On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:34:04 +1300, -[Myth]- wrote:
    >
    >> VS2005 will include a 64bit compiler when it comes out (June?)

    >
    > What is "VS2005"?
    >
    > The GCC C++ compiler is a good compiler.
    >
    >
    > Divine


    visual studio 2005.

    yes gcc is good but not on windows, where it doesnt have access to all the
    libraries etc
    -[Myth]-, Feb 20, 2005
    #20
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