P&S offerings are triggers for rage

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rich, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. Rich

    Rich Guest

    How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    has a....youtube mode!!! Saints preserve us...

    Dear stupid, f------ camera companies: What is the P&S, pocketable
    with at least a 2/3rds sensor and a fixed or modest zoom HIGH QUALITY
    lens????

    I'm at the point where I'm thinking the ONLY thing that might work
    well would be the small Olympus E-410 DSLR coupled to a Pentax pancake
    21mm lens.....
    Rich, Aug 29, 2007
    #1
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  2. Rich

    ASAAR Guest

    On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:12:07 -0700, Rich trilled and trolled:

    > How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    > whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    > has a....youtube mode!!!


    Are you sure that it's a completely different model? That's been
    done before by other manufacturers, putting a different model number
    on an existing camera, and adding a few 'extras' (case, rechargeable
    batteries, charger) not included in the non-Walmart version. I
    described one of these cases here about two years ago with (IIRC) a
    Fuji A345 appearing as a Fuji A360 in Walmart.


    > Saints preserve us...


    Holy cow! These silly messages of yours always get you in a jam.


    > I'm at the point where I'm thinking . . .


    Sorry, but no. You haven't reached that point yet.
    ASAAR, Aug 29, 2007
    #2
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  3. Rich

    Matt Ion Guest

    ASAAR wrote:
    > On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:12:07 -0700, Rich trilled and trolled:
    >
    >> How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    >> whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    >> has a....youtube mode!!!

    >
    > Are you sure that it's a completely different model? That's been
    > done before by other manufacturers, putting a different model number
    > on an existing camera, and adding a few 'extras' (case, rechargeable
    > batteries, charger) not included in the non-Walmart version. I
    > described one of these cases here about two years ago with (IIRC) a
    > Fuji A345 appearing as a Fuji A360 in Walmart.


    As for a "YouTube" version... I would think that mostly just means it
    records video directly to whatever format is preferred for upload to
    YouTube (DivX, I think)... that and some different packaging/labeling).

    >> I'm at the point where I'm thinking . . .

    >
    > Sorry, but no. You haven't reached that point yet.


    ROFL!!!
    Matt Ion, Aug 29, 2007
    #3
  4. Rich

    Mark B. Guest

    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    > whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    > has a....youtube mode!!!


    You're confused (not surprised). It's the Casio with a YouTube mode:

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082801casioexv8exz1080.asp
    Mark B., Aug 29, 2007
    #4
  5. Rich

    Mark B. Guest

    "ASAAR" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:12:07 -0700, Rich trilled and trolled:
    >
    >> How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    >> whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    >> has a....youtube mode!!!

    >
    > Are you sure that it's a completely different model? That's been
    > done before by other manufacturers, putting a different model number
    > on an existing camera, and adding a few 'extras' (case, rechargeable
    > batteries, charger) not included in the non-Walmart version. I
    > described one of these cases here about two years ago with (IIRC) a
    > Fuji A345 appearing as a Fuji A360 in Walmart.
    >
    >


    Yup, and not just cameras nor just Wal-Mart. Many retailers want
    'exclusive' products in their stores, so they it's not uncommon to ask
    manufacturers to come up with something unique. Rather than go through the
    expense of actually creating a whole new product, the manufacturer will use
    an existing product and make a few cosmetic changes or add features that
    don't require much investment.

    Mark
    Mark B., Aug 29, 2007
    #5
  6. Rich

    Dave Cohen Guest

    Mark B. wrote:
    > "ASAAR" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:12:07 -0700, Rich trilled and trolled:
    >>
    >>> How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    >>> whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    >>> has a....youtube mode!!!

    >> Are you sure that it's a completely different model? That's been
    >> done before by other manufacturers, putting a different model number
    >> on an existing camera, and adding a few 'extras' (case, rechargeable
    >> batteries, charger) not included in the non-Walmart version. I
    >> described one of these cases here about two years ago with (IIRC) a
    >> Fuji A345 appearing as a Fuji A360 in Walmart.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Yup, and not just cameras nor just Wal-Mart. Many retailers want
    > 'exclusive' products in their stores, so they it's not uncommon to ask
    > manufacturers to come up with something unique. Rather than go through the
    > expense of actually creating a whole new product, the manufacturer will use
    > an existing product and make a few cosmetic changes or add features that
    > don't require much investment.
    >
    > Mark
    >
    >


    It's true Walmart and others use a unique model number. However, I
    suspect it's not so much for the retailer as the manufacturer. Walmart
    (and others) get favorable pricing due to their large purchase volumes.
    Changing a model number gives some protection to other sellers not
    getting as good a deal and hence selling at a higher price. Walmart are
    now selling emachines and I believe Dell. You need to carefully compare
    specs to see how the Walmart model compares with what is sold elsewhere.
    Dave Cohen
    Dave Cohen, Aug 29, 2007
    #6
  7. Dave Cohen wrote:
    > Mark B. wrote:
    >> Yup, and not just cameras nor just Wal-Mart. Many retailers want
    >> 'exclusive' products in their stores, so they it's not uncommon to
    >> ask manufacturers to come up with something unique. Rather than go
    >> through the expense of actually creating a whole new product, the
    >> manufacturer will use an existing product and make a few cosmetic
    >> changes or add features that don't require much investment.

    >
    > It's true Walmart and others use a unique model number. However, I
    > suspect it's not so much for the retailer as the manufacturer. [...]


    Plus it saves the dealers from honoring their "Best Price Guarantee". If the
    cheaper product at the competing store has a different model number than
    it's not the same product, isn't it?

    > You need
    > to carefully compare specs to see how the Walmart model compares with
    > what is sold elsewhere.


    Quite true! Almost fell for it when buying a welder at HomeDepot until I
    realized that although the model number was similar to the typical
    medium-level welder it actually was a low-end model with some useless
    gadgets added.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Aug 29, 2007
    #7
  8. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Aug 29, 6:30 am, "Mark B." <> wrote:
    > "Rich" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > > How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    > > whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    > > has a....youtube mode!!!

    >
    > You're confused (not surprised). It's the Casio with a YouTube mode:
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082801casioexv8exz1080.asp


    Big deal, Casio, Ricoh, Samsung, Kodak. What is the difference?
    Rich, Aug 29, 2007
    #8
  9. Rich

    irwell Guest

    On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:30:34 -0400, "Mark B."
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Rich" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    >> whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    >> has a....youtube mode!!!

    >
    >You're confused (not surprised). It's the Casio with a YouTube mode:
    >
    >http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082801casioexv8exz1080.asp
    >

    The Ricoh Caplio R7 just announced seems a pretty powerful camera,
    no view finder apart from the LCD, shame!
    irwell, Aug 29, 2007
    #9
  10. Rich

    Guest

    On Aug 29, 10:29 am, irwell <> wrote:
    > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:30:34 -0400, "Mark B."
    >
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >"Rich" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    > >> whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    > >> has a....youtube mode!!!

    >
    > >You're confused (not surprised). It's the Casio with a YouTube mode:

    >
    > >http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082801casioexv8exz1080.asp

    >
    > The Ricoh Caplio R7 just announced seems a pretty powerful camera,
    > no view finder apart from the LCD, shame!


    Optical viewfinders on P&S cameras are useless. The LCD is much better
    for framing a shot. On P&S cameras I've owned that had a viewfinder I
    literally NEVER used it. Now I have a great camera without a
    viewfinder (Panasonic LX-1) and I have never missed it.

    -Gniewko
    , Aug 29, 2007
    #10
  11. Dave Cohen wrote:

    > It's true Walmart and others use a unique model number. However, I
    > suspect it's not so much for the retailer as the manufacturer.


    Uh, no. It's because with a unique model number "price match"
    does not apply.

    Doug McDonald
    Doug McDonald, Aug 29, 2007
    #11
  12. Rich

    Bruce Lewis Guest

    writes:

    > Optical viewfinders on P&S cameras are useless. The LCD is much better
    > for framing a shot. On P&S cameras I've owned that had a viewfinder I
    > literally NEVER used it.


    You're totally right about framing, but you must have much steadier
    hands than I to never use the viewfinder and still get good shots.

    I had to learn the difference between the viewfinder and the actual
    shot, and always compensate.

    --

    http://ourdoings.com/
    Amazingly simple photo sharing
    Bruce Lewis, Aug 29, 2007
    #12
  13. Rich

    Matt Ion Guest

    Doug McDonald wrote:
    > Dave Cohen wrote:
    >
    >> It's true Walmart and others use a unique model number. However, I
    >> suspect it's not so much for the retailer as the manufacturer.

    >
    > Uh, no. It's because with a unique model number "price match"
    > does not apply.


    Exactly. "Yes, you paid more for model XYZw at our store, but that ad
    you have for our competitor is model XYZ, which is a different model."
    Matt Ion, Aug 29, 2007
    #13
  14. wrote:
    > Optical viewfinders on P&S cameras are useless. The LCD is much better
    > for framing a shot. On P&S cameras I've owned that had a viewfinder I
    > literally NEVER used it. Now I have a great camera without a
    > viewfinder (Panasonic LX-1) and I have never missed it.


    I guess everyone has different preferences.
    In _MY_ experience the LCD is hard to see outdoors and almost useless in
    sunlight, even more so when wearing sunglasses, and in particular the
    polarized type (for obvious reasons).
    I would estimate I used the LCD for less than 1% of my photos and I would
    never buy a camera without a viewfinder. The LCD is nice to review the shot
    after the fact but otherwise it is almost useless _for_me_.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Aug 29, 2007
    #14
  15. Rich

    irwell Guest

    On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:33:41 -0000, wrote:

    >On Aug 29, 10:29 am, irwell <> wrote:
    >> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:30:34 -0400, "Mark B."
    >>
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >"Rich" <> wrote in message
    >> >news:...
    >> >> How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    >> >> whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    >> >> has a....youtube mode!!!

    >>
    >> >You're confused (not surprised). It's the Casio with a YouTube mode:

    >>
    >> >http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082801casioexv8exz1080.asp

    >>
    >> The Ricoh Caplio R7 just announced seems a pretty powerful camera,
    >> no view finder apart from the LCD, shame!

    >
    >Optical viewfinders on P&S cameras are useless. The LCD is much better
    >for framing a shot. On P&S cameras I've owned that had a viewfinder I
    >literally NEVER used it. Now I have a great camera without a
    >viewfinder (Panasonic LX-1) and I have never missed it.
    >
    >-Gniewko

    Apparently the folks at Ricoh don't agree as they offer
    add-on Optical Viewfinders for some of their P&S, and also
    an EVF (Electronic Viewfinder like a small video screen)
    for their top of the line GX100.

    The LCD is great for framing a shot, as you state,
    except for those times when it is overwhelmed by
    the ambient sunlight.
    irwell, Aug 29, 2007
    #15
  16. Rich

    Guest

    On Aug 29, 3:19 pm, irwell <> wrote:
    > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:33:41 -0000, wrote:
    > >On Aug 29, 10:29 am, irwell <> wrote:
    > >> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:30:34 -0400, "Mark B."

    >
    > >> <> wrote:

    >
    > >> >"Rich" <> wrote in message
    > >> >news:...
    > >> >> How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    > >> >> whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    > >> >> has a....youtube mode!!!

    >
    > >> >You're confused (not surprised). It's the Casio with a YouTube mode:

    >
    > >> >http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082801casioexv8exz1080.asp

    >
    > >> The Ricoh Caplio R7 just announced seems a pretty powerful camera,
    > >> no view finder apart from the LCD, shame!

    >
    > >Optical viewfinders on P&S cameras are useless. The LCD is much better
    > >for framing a shot. On P&S cameras I've owned that had a viewfinder I
    > >literally NEVER used it. Now I have a great camera without a
    > >viewfinder (Panasonic LX-1) and I have never missed it.

    >
    > >-Gniewko

    >
    > Apparently the folks at Ricoh don't agree as they offer
    > add-on Optical Viewfinders for some of their P&S, and also
    > an EVF (Electronic Viewfinder like a small video screen)
    > for their top of the line GX100.
    >
    > The LCD is great for framing a shot, as you state,
    > except for those times when it is overwhelmed by
    > the ambient sunlight.


    I'm not sure why, but that has never been a problem for me. And I've
    shot photos in all kinds of conditions. On a bright sunny day on the
    beach you won't see the LCD clearly enough to, say, use manual
    focusing, but framing shots still works well. BTW, currently I use a
    Panasonic LX-1.

    -Gniewko
    , Aug 29, 2007
    #16
  17. Rich

    Allen Guest

    irwell wrote:
    > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:33:41 -0000, wrote:
    >
    >> On Aug 29, 10:29 am, irwell <> wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:30:34 -0400, "Mark B."
    >>>
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Rich" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:...
    >>>>> How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    >>>>> whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    >>>>> has a....youtube mode!!!
    >>>> You're confused (not surprised). It's the Casio with a YouTube mode:
    >>>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082801casioexv8exz1080.asp
    >>> The Ricoh Caplio R7 just announced seems a pretty powerful camera,
    >>> no view finder apart from the LCD, shame!

    >> Optical viewfinders on P&S cameras are useless. The LCD is much better
    >> for framing a shot. On P&S cameras I've owned that had a viewfinder I
    >> literally NEVER used it. Now I have a great camera without a
    >> viewfinder (Panasonic LX-1) and I have never missed it.
    >>
    >> -Gniewko

    > Apparently the folks at Ricoh don't agree as they offer
    > add-on Optical Viewfinders for some of their P&S, and also
    > an EVF (Electronic Viewfinder like a small video screen)
    > for their top of the line GX100.
    >
    > The LCD is great for framing a shot, as you state,
    > except for those times when it is overwhelmed by
    > the ambient sunlight.
    >
    >

    And not so wonderful for framing moving subjects.
    Allen
    Allen, Aug 29, 2007
    #17
  18. Rich

    Bruce. Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Optical viewfinders on P&S cameras are useless. The LCD is much better
    > for framing a shot.


    The LCD on my Canon A-710 IS is virtually useless in direct sunlight.

    I also find I can produce better slow shutter indoor shots by bracing the
    camera to my face. For example, museums where tripods and flash photography
    are forbidden.

    I would never buy a camera without an optical viewfinder.

    Bruce.
    Bruce., Aug 29, 2007
    #18
  19. Rich

    John Turco Guest

    Rich wrote:
    >
    > How else is someone supposed to react to being told a model of Olympus/
    > whatever will only be sold by....Walmart, or that the new Ricoh toy
    > has a....youtube mode!!! Saints preserve us...
    >
    > Dear stupid, f------ camera companies: What is the P&S, pocketable
    > with at least a 2/3rds sensor and a fixed or modest zoom HIGH QUALITY
    > lens????
    >
    > I'm at the point where I'm thinking the ONLY thing that might work
    > well would be the small Olympus E-410 DSLR coupled to a Pentax pancake
    > 21mm lens.....



    Hello, Rich:

    Trollin', again, eh? For your information, Wal-Mart.com is currently
    offering the Pentax K110D (6.1 megapixel DSLR), with lens, at a paltry
    $399.84 USD:

    Pentax 6.1 MP K110D Digital SLR Camera w/ 18 - 55mm Lens Kit
    <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=6370961>

    Hence, these vaunted DSLR's must be getting pretty damned crummy, to be
    available so cheaply, from such a notorious mass merchandiser. :)


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
    John Turco, Aug 31, 2007
    #19
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