OT: Your phone records are for sale

Discussion in 'VOIP' started by Vox Humana, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. Vox Humana

    Vox Humana Guest

    http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html
    Your phone records are for sale

    January 5, 2006

    BY FRANK MAIN Crime Reporter

    The Chicago Police Department is warning officers their cell phone records
    are available to anyone -- for a price. Dozens of online services are
    selling lists of cell phone calls, raising security concerns among law
    enforcement and privacy experts.


    Criminals can use such records to expose a government informant who
    regularly calls a law enforcement official.

    Suspicious spouses can see if their husband or wife is calling a certain
    someone a bit too often.

    And employers can check whether a worker is regularly calling a
    psychologist -- or a competing company.

    Some online services might be skirting the law to obtain these phone lists,
    according to Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), who has called for legislation
    to criminalize phone record theft and use.

    In some cases, telephone company insiders secretly sell customers'
    phone-call lists to online brokers, despite strict telephone company rules
    against such deals, according to Schumer.

    And some online brokers have used deception to get the lists from the phone
    companies, he said.

    "Though this problem is all too common, federal law is too narrow to include
    this type of crime," Schumer said last year in a prepared statement.

    The Chicago Police Department is looking into the sale of phone records, a
    source said.

    Late last month, the department sent a warning to officers about
    Locatecell.com, which sells lists of calls made on cell phones and land
    lines.

    "Officers should be aware of this information when giving out their personal
    cell phone numbers to the general public," the bulletin said. "Undercover
    officers should also be aware of this information if they occasionally call
    personal numbers such as home or the office, from their [undercover] ones."

    Test got FBI's calls in 3 hours

    To test the service, the FBI paid Locatecell.com $160 to buy the records for
    an agent's cell phone and received the list within three hours, the police
    bulletin said.

    Representatives of Data Find Solutions Inc., the Tennessee-based operator of
    Locatecell.com, could not be reached for comment.

    Frank Bochte, a spokesman for the FBI in Chicago, said he was aware of the
    Web site.

    "Not only in Chicago, but nationwide, the FBI notified its field offices of
    this potential threat to the security of our agents, and especially our
    undercover agents," Bochte said. "We need to educate our personnel about the
    dangers posed by individuals using this site and others like it. We are
    stressing that they should be careful in their cellular use."

    How well do the services work? The Chicago Sun-Times paid $110 to
    Locatecell.com to purchase a one-month record of calls for this reporter's
    company cell phone. It was as simple as e-mailing the telephone number to
    the service along with a credit card number. The request was made Friday
    after the service was closed for the New Year's holiday.

    'Most powerful investigative tool'


    On Tuesday, when it reopened, Locatecell.com e-mailed a list of 78 telephone
    numbers this reporter called on his cell phone between Nov. 19 and Dec. 17.
    The list included calls to law enforcement sources, story subjects and other
    Sun-Times reporters and editors.

    Ernie Rizzo, a Chicago private investigator, said he uses a similar cell
    phone record service to conduct research for his clients. On Friday, for
    instance, Rizzo said he ordered the cell phone records of a suburban police
    chief whose wife suspects he is cheating on her.

    "I would say the most powerful investigative tool right now is cell
    records," Rizzo said. "I use it a couple times a week. A few hundred bucks a
    week is well worth the money."

    Only financial info protected?

    In July, the Electronic Privacy Information Center filed a petition with the
    Federal Communications Commission seeking an end to the sale of telephone
    records.

    "We're very concerned about Locatecell," said Chris Jay Hoofnagle, senior
    counsel for the center. "This is the company that sold the phone records of
    a Canadian official to a reporter 'no questions asked.' "

    Schumer has called for legislation to criminalize the "stealing and selling"
    of cell phone logs. He also urged the Federal Trade Commission to set up a
    unit to stop it.

    He said a common method for obtaining cell phone records is "pretexting,"
    involving a data broker pretending to be a phone's owner and duping the
    phone company into providing the information.

    "Pretexting for financial data is illegal, but it does not include phone
    records," Schumer said. "We already have protections for our financial
    information. We ought to have it for the very personal information that can
    be gleaned from telephone records."

     
    Vox Humana, Jan 7, 2006
    #1
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  2. Vox Humana wrote:
    > http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html
    > Your phone records are for sale
    >
    > January 5, 2006
    >
    > BY FRANK MAIN Crime Reporter
    >
    > The Chicago Police Department is warning officers their cell phone records
    > are available to anyone -- for a price. Dozens of online services are
    > selling lists of cell phone calls, raising security concerns among law
    > enforcement and privacy experts.


    Phone records have been for sale almost as long as home street addresses have
    been bought and sold.

    When one purchases a "public domain" identity to people can contact them, they
    become "customers" and businesses suplement their income by sharing your
    information with like or "value add" product vendors.

    Where is the outrage that our home street address information is available to
    all those junk mailers?
     
    Joseph Dionne, Jan 8, 2006
    #2
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  3. Vox Humana

    The J-Man Guest

    Joseph Dionne wrote:
    > Vox Humana wrote:
    >
    >> http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html
    >> Your phone records are for sale
    >>
    >> January 5, 2006
    >>
    >> BY FRANK MAIN Crime Reporter
    >>
    >> The Chicago Police Department is warning officers their cell phone
    >> records
    >> are available to anyone -- for a price. Dozens of online services are
    >> selling lists of cell phone calls, raising security concerns among law
    >> enforcement and privacy experts.

    >
    >
    > Phone records have been for sale almost as long as home street addresses
    > have been bought and sold.
    >
    > When one purchases a "public domain" identity to people can contact
    > them, they become "customers" and businesses suplement their income by
    > sharing your information with like or "value add" product vendors.
    >
    > Where is the outrage that our home street address information is
    > available to all those junk mailers?
    >


    I think the concern here is that people are actually selling call detail
    reports for which numbers you have been talking to.

    :J-man
     
    The J-Man, Jan 8, 2006
    #3
  4. Vox Humana

    Vox Humana Guest

    "Joseph Dionne" <> wrote in message
    news:BUYvf.3626$...
    > Vox Humana wrote:
    > > http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html
    > > Your phone records are for sale
    > >
    > > January 5, 2006
    > >
    > > BY FRANK MAIN Crime Reporter
    > >
    > > The Chicago Police Department is warning officers their cell phone

    records
    > > are available to anyone -- for a price. Dozens of online services are
    > > selling lists of cell phone calls, raising security concerns among law
    > > enforcement and privacy experts.

    >
    > Phone records have been for sale almost as long as home street addresses

    have
    > been bought and sold.
    >
    > When one purchases a "public domain" identity to people can contact them,

    they
    > become "customers" and businesses suplement their income by sharing your
    > information with like or "value add" product vendors.
    >
    > Where is the outrage that our home street address information is available

    to
    > all those junk mailers?


    I agree that public domain records are fair game. The story however
    detailed how any one of us can purchase a detailed record of a specific
    person's calls. For instance, if you called me and I captured your number
    on my caller ID, I could then spend $110 and find out who you called and who
    called you for a specific month. (My VOIP provider doesn't honor anonymus
    calls, so I get the number and usually a name when people think that they
    have blocked that CNID information.) For an additional fee, I could also
    find the duration of the calls. So it would be easy to tell if you were
    having an affair, receiving infertility treatments, called an abortion
    clinic or an aids treatment clinic. Maybe you work for me and I suspect
    that you are interviewing for another job. Maybe it would be better for me
    to fire you rather than let you linger on while arranging a job with a
    competitor. The possibilities are endless.
     
    Vox Humana, Jan 8, 2006
    #4
  5. Vox Humana wrote:
    > "Joseph Dionne" <> wrote in message
    > news:BUYvf.3626$...
    >
    >>Vox Humana wrote:
    >>
    >>>http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html
    >>>Your phone records are for sale
    >>>
    >>>January 5, 2006
    >>>
    >>>BY FRANK MAIN Crime Reporter
    >>>
    >>>The Chicago Police Department is warning officers their cell phone

    >
    > records
    >
    >>>are available to anyone -- for a price. Dozens of online services are
    >>>selling lists of cell phone calls, raising security concerns among law
    >>>enforcement and privacy experts.

    >>
    >>Phone records have been for sale almost as long as home street addresses

    >
    > have
    >
    >>been bought and sold.
    >>
    >>When one purchases a "public domain" identity to people can contact them,

    >
    > they
    >
    >>become "customers" and businesses suplement their income by sharing your
    >>information with like or "value add" product vendors.
    >>
    >>Where is the outrage that our home street address information is available

    >
    > to
    >
    >>all those junk mailers?

    >
    >
    > I agree that public domain records are fair game. The story however
    > detailed how any one of us can purchase a detailed record of a specific
    > person's calls. For instance, if you called me and I captured your number
    > on my caller ID, I could then spend $110 and find out who you called and who
    > called you for a specific month. (My VOIP provider doesn't honor anonymus
    > calls, so I get the number and usually a name when people think that they
    > have blocked that CNID information.) For an additional fee, I could also
    > find the duration of the calls. So it would be easy to tell if you were
    > having an affair, receiving infertility treatments, called an abortion
    > clinic or an aids treatment clinic. Maybe you work for me and I suspect
    > that you are interviewing for another job. Maybe it would be better for me
    > to fire you rather than let you linger on while arranging a job with a
    > competitor. The possibilities are endless.
    >
    >


    What you describe is the public domain, business collect publicly available
    data, aggregate it and and offer it for sale for a price.

    Just as all your activities outside your dwelling are "public domain" so to
    you "expose" yourself when you make the effort to telephone a second party.
    You make the choice to expose yourself when you picked up the phone and dialed
    no one forced your actions.

    However, call information has been readily available from the telcos for a fee,
    using real time on line queries since the seventies when I first entered the
    field of telephonic software application business. Within the first six of a
    call, while my phone switches played "ring back" to your phone, I could get
    how long you owned the phone number, whether you charged back on your phone
    bill, a "basic" credit score, street address of the phones location -- LATA --
    who prepares your phone bill and who is your LEC as well as other info.

    All this was made possible by the ISDN system, and as you say, I would reject
    calls with ANI was not presented. As you say, ANI is always available on all
    calls, and hiding ANI is a service your telco provides for you.

    Privacy is something that only exists when one withdraws from all modern forms
    of convenience, It is a too edge sword, as consumers we want/demand
    information on those that attempt to enter our world, yet at the same we want
    our info kept secret. The two are in direct conflict, and I for one have no
    answers as to what the middle ground is or should be.

    I think most people want the Internet to be free of government controls, and
    taxation, yet every time we venture into the www we leave our footprints all
    over the place. Business rise to collect this information and sell their data
    as well, mostly in "honest" fashion to drive our consumer based economies.
    But, just like a fire arm can be use for harm, so to our publicly available
    information.

    Ethical behavior begins with the individual who says "this is wrong, and I
    will have no part of it." Then we legislate the limits on the use of public
    data, not try to create laws attempting to "guarantee" privacy.
     
    Joseph Dionne, Jan 8, 2006
    #5
  6. Vox Humana

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Joseph Dionne" <> wrote in message
    news:nIcwf.3842$

    [snip]

    > What you describe is the public domain, business collect
    > publicly available data, aggregate it and and offer it
    > for sale for a price.


    No. The list of numbers I call is my business and nobody except the phone
    company (for billing purposes) and the persons I call have any business
    knowing it.

    > Just as all your activities outside your dwelling are
    > "public domain" so to you "expose" yourself when you make
    > the effort to telephone a second party. You make the
    > choice to expose yourself when you picked up the phone
    > and dialed no one forced your actions.


    No. See above. I do not stand on a hilltop and shout out the numbers I
    phone. It is not anyone's business.

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Jan 8, 2006
    #6
  7. Vox Humana

    Vox Humana Guest

    "Joseph Dionne" <> wrote in message
    news:nIcwf.3842$...
    > Vox Humana wrote:
    > > "Joseph Dionne" <> wrote in message
    > > news:BUYvf.3626$...
    > >
    > >>Vox Humana wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html
    > >>>Your phone records are for sale
    > >>>
    > >>>January 5, 2006
    > >>>
    > >>>BY FRANK MAIN Crime Reporter
    > >>>
    > >>>The Chicago Police Department is warning officers their cell phone

    > >
    > > records
    > >
    > >>>are available to anyone -- for a price. Dozens of online services are
    > >>>selling lists of cell phone calls, raising security concerns among law
    > >>>enforcement and privacy experts.
    > >>
    > >>Phone records have been for sale almost as long as home street addresses

    > >
    > > have
    > >
    > >>been bought and sold.
    > >>
    > >>When one purchases a "public domain" identity to people can contact

    them,
    > >
    > > they
    > >
    > >>become "customers" and businesses suplement their income by sharing your
    > >>information with like or "value add" product vendors.
    > >>
    > >>Where is the outrage that our home street address information is

    available
    > >
    > > to
    > >
    > >>all those junk mailers?

    > >
    > >
    > > I agree that public domain records are fair game. The story however
    > > detailed how any one of us can purchase a detailed record of a specific
    > > person's calls. For instance, if you called me and I captured your

    number
    > > on my caller ID, I could then spend $110 and find out who you called and

    who
    > > called you for a specific month. (My VOIP provider doesn't honor

    anonymus
    > > calls, so I get the number and usually a name when people think that

    they
    > > have blocked that CNID information.) For an additional fee, I could

    also
    > > find the duration of the calls. So it would be easy to tell if you were
    > > having an affair, receiving infertility treatments, called an abortion
    > > clinic or an aids treatment clinic. Maybe you work for me and I suspect
    > > that you are interviewing for another job. Maybe it would be better for

    me
    > > to fire you rather than let you linger on while arranging a job with a
    > > competitor. The possibilities are endless.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > What you describe is the public domain, business collect publicly

    available
    > data, aggregate it and and offer it for sale for a price.
    >
    > Just as all your activities outside your dwelling are "public domain" so

    to
    > you "expose" yourself when you make the effort to telephone a second

    party.
    > You make the choice to expose yourself when you picked up the phone and

    dialed
    > no one forced your actions.


    Since I do all my banking outside my dwelling, using your argument all my
    banking records would available to anyone for a fee. That's the issue here.
    The records are available to ANYONE for a fee. I dobt that most people know
    this. I didn't.


    >
    > However, call information has been readily available from the telcos for a

    fee,
    > using real time on line queries since the seventies when I first entered

    the
    > field of telephonic software application business. Within the first six

    of a
    > call, while my phone switches played "ring back" to your phone, I could

    get
    > how long you owned the phone number, whether you charged back on your

    phone
    > bill, a "basic" credit score, street address of the phones location --

    LATA --
    > who prepares your phone bill and who is your LEC as well as other info.



    You can get a credit score from the phone company?
     
    Vox Humana, Jan 8, 2006
    #7

  8. > The records are available to ANYONE for a fee. I dobt that most people know
    > this. I didn't.


    I didn't know this either. I doubt that this privacy invasion will
    survive the outcry that's going to happen.

    All of this is going to put pressure on folks to use more peer-to-peer
    calling methods and bypass any central service that can easily
    aggregate all calling information. I've never used skype since there
    is no open-source software for it, but from what I understand it would
    be very difficult for some outside organization to gather CDR records
    for the calls. Certainly the SIP world could, if needed, move to
    something that offered similar privacy protection.

    -wolfgang
    --
    Wolfgang S. Rupprecht http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/
    Direct SIP URL Dialing: http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/phonedirectory.html
     
    Wolfgang S. Rupprecht, Jan 8, 2006
    #8
  9. Vox Humana wrote:
    > "Joseph Dionne" <> wrote in message
    > news:nIcwf.3842$...
    >
    >>Vox Humana wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Joseph Dionne" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:BUYvf.3626$...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Vox Humana wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html
    >>>>>Your phone records are for sale
    >>>>>
    >>>>>January 5, 2006
    >>>>>
    >>>>>BY FRANK MAIN Crime Reporter
    >>>>>
    >>>>>The Chicago Police Department is warning officers their cell phone
    >>>
    >>>records
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>are available to anyone -- for a price. Dozens of online services are
    >>>>>selling lists of cell phone calls, raising security concerns among law
    >>>>>enforcement and privacy experts.
    >>>>
    >>>>Phone records have been for sale almost as long as home street addresses
    >>>
    >>>have
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>been bought and sold.
    >>>>
    >>>>When one purchases a "public domain" identity to people can contact

    >
    > them,
    >
    >>>they
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>become "customers" and businesses suplement their income by sharing your
    >>>>information with like or "value add" product vendors.
    >>>>
    >>>>Where is the outrage that our home street address information is

    >
    > available
    >
    >>>to
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>all those junk mailers?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>I agree that public domain records are fair game. The story however
    >>>detailed how any one of us can purchase a detailed record of a specific
    >>>person's calls. For instance, if you called me and I captured your

    >
    > number
    >
    >>>on my caller ID, I could then spend $110 and find out who you called and

    >
    > who
    >
    >>>called you for a specific month. (My VOIP provider doesn't honor

    >
    > anonymus
    >
    >>>calls, so I get the number and usually a name when people think that

    >
    > they
    >
    >>>have blocked that CNID information.) For an additional fee, I could

    >
    > also
    >
    >>>find the duration of the calls. So it would be easy to tell if you were
    >>>having an affair, receiving infertility treatments, called an abortion
    >>>clinic or an aids treatment clinic. Maybe you work for me and I suspect
    >>>that you are interviewing for another job. Maybe it would be better for

    >
    > me
    >
    >>>to fire you rather than let you linger on while arranging a job with a
    >>>competitor. The possibilities are endless.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>What you describe is the public domain, business collect publicly

    >
    > available
    >
    >>data, aggregate it and and offer it for sale for a price.
    >>
    >>Just as all your activities outside your dwelling are "public domain" so

    >
    > to
    >
    >>you "expose" yourself when you make the effort to telephone a second

    >
    > party.
    >
    >>You make the choice to expose yourself when you picked up the phone and

    >
    > dialed
    >
    >>no one forced your actions.

    >
    >
    > Since I do all my banking outside my dwelling, using your argument all my
    > banking records would available to anyone for a fee. That's the issue here.
    > The records are available to ANYONE for a fee. I dobt that most people know
    > this. I didn't.
    >
    >


    Actually, all your banking records are available, via credit rating
    agencies. The big three agencies frequently compile lists and sell them
    to smaller firms who then offer credit check services for any thing you
    buy over time, i.e. credit.

    However, because of the Great Depression and the banking legislation that
    aims to prevent its repeat, i.e. FDIC, etc, banks are highly regulated and
    legislated as to how and who can obtain their records. Unfortunately, our
    laws loosen up the further your credit/banking history moves away from the
    bank/credit company holding your accounts, and unscrupulous peoples can
    get access. But, don't put your head in the sand in fright, laws are also
    on the books that allow you to sue for damages anyone untowardly using your
    financial information.

    "We" can work to put an end to this practice, but then we would be also be
    ending the credit lending industry, and our ability to buy more of the
    things we want/need/desire on credit. "Trust me" will have little weight
    whey you are "begging" for a loan from a creditor who can no longer get
    an idea on how likely you are to repay the loan.

    >
    >>However, call information has been readily available from the telcos for a

    >
    > fee,
    >
    >>using real time on line queries since the seventies when I first entered

    >
    > the
    >
    >>field of telephonic software application business. Within the first six

    >
    > of a
    >
    >>call, while my phone switches played "ring back" to your phone, I could

    >
    > get
    >
    >>how long you owned the phone number, whether you charged back on your

    >
    > phone
    >
    >>bill, a "basic" credit score, street address of the phones location --

    >
    > LATA --
    >
    >>who prepares your phone bill and who is your LEC as well as other info.

    >
    >
    >
    > You can get a credit score from the phone company?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    I did not say it was obtained from a phone company. You can deny this all
    you want, but your information is out there now. The proverbial genie is
    already out of the bottle.
     
    Joseph Dionne, Jan 8, 2006
    #9
  10. Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote:
    >>The records are available to ANYONE for a fee. I dobt that most people know
    >>this. I didn't.

    >
    >
    > I didn't know this either. I doubt that this privacy invasion will
    > survive the outcry that's going to happen.
    >
    > All of this is going to put pressure on folks to use more peer-to-peer
    > calling methods and bypass any central service that can easily
    > aggregate all calling information.


    Like two cans and a string? Even peer to peer has a "man in the middle."
     
    Joseph Dionne, Jan 8, 2006
    #10
  11. Vox Humana

    Tony Toews Guest

    "Wolfgang S. Rupprecht" <>
    wrote:

    >I've never used skype since there
    >is no open-source software for it, but from what I understand it would
    >be very difficult for some outside organization to gather CDR records
    >for the calls. Certainly the SIP world could, if needed, move to
    >something that offered similar privacy protection.


    But surely Skype, or your VOIP provider, has a record of all the calls you make? Or
    am I misunderstanding your point? If a cell phone company is selling all your calls
    then why not Skype or others?

    Tony
    --
    Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
    Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
    read the entire thread of messages.
    Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
    http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
     
    Tony Toews, Jan 8, 2006
    #11
  12. Vox Humana

    Vox Humana Guest

    "Joseph Dionne" <> wrote in message
    news:72gwf.4002$...
    >
    > I did not say it was obtained from a phone company. You can deny this all
    > you want, but your information is out there now. The proverbial genie is
    > already out of the bottle.


    It sounded like that's what you were saying. I'm the one who posted the
    original message so I know there are problems. The issue isn't that the
    "information is out there," because as you point out, there are legitimate
    reasons for people to access the information. The problem comes when anyone
    can access the information without a need to know and without your
    permission.
     
    Vox Humana, Jan 9, 2006
    #12
  13. Joseph Dionne <> writes:
    > Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote:
    >>>The records are available to ANYONE for a fee. I dobt that most people know
    >>>this. I didn't.

    >> I didn't know this either. I doubt that this privacy invasion will
    >> survive the outcry that's going to happen.
    >> All of this is going to put pressure on folks to use more
    >> peer-to-peer
    >> calling methods and bypass any central service that can easily
    >> aggregate all calling information.

    >
    > Like two cans and a string? Even peer to peer has a "man in the middle."


    Peer to peer if done sloppily can have a man-in-the-middle attack.
    Thats why good systems do end-to-end encryption and end-to-end
    authentication. That way you can use the services of intermediate
    proxies without having to trust them not to eavesdrop.

    -wolfgang
    --
    Wolfgang S. Rupprecht http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/
    Direct SIP URL Dialing: http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/phonedirectory.html
     
    Wolfgang S. Rupprecht, Jan 9, 2006
    #13
  14. Tony Toews <> writes:
    > But surely Skype, or your VOIP provider, has a record of all the
    > calls you make? Or am I misunderstanding your point? If a cell
    > phone company is selling all your calls then why not Skype or
    > others?


    My voip provider is me. When I make pure end-to-end SIP calls to
    someone the only two parties involved are myself and the recipient.
    Thats the whole beauty of it. No outsider need be involved. I think
    direct sip calling will get much more popular as folks realize they
    don't need to pay any middleman to make SIP calls. The only thing you
    need a middleman for is if you want to gateway your SIP into the PSTN.
    Then you need to pay someone that connects to both networks to move
    your packets from one to the other. That's a different kettle of fish
    though. Both the gateway company and the phone companies involved are
    going to keep plenty of records because money is changing hands for
    that transaction.

    As the OP's story says, there is no ironclad privacy guarantee once
    you pay a middleman. Even if they have a privacy policy, some
    dishonest employee could be selling the company's database on the
    side.

    -wolfgang
    --
    Wolfgang S. Rupprecht http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/
    Direct SIP URL Dialing: http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/phonedirectory.html
     
    Wolfgang S. Rupprecht, Jan 9, 2006
    #14
  15. Vox Humana

    Vox Humana Guest

    "Wolfgang S. Rupprecht"
    <> wrote in
    message news:...
    >
    > Tony Toews <> writes:
    > > But surely Skype, or your VOIP provider, has a record of all the
    > > calls you make? Or am I misunderstanding your point? If a cell
    > > phone company is selling all your calls then why not Skype or
    > > others?

    >
    > My voip provider is me. When I make pure end-to-end SIP calls to
    > someone the only two parties involved are myself and the recipient.
    > Thats the whole beauty of it. No outsider need be involved. I think
    > direct sip calling will get much more popular as folks realize they
    > don't need to pay any middleman to make SIP calls.


    Can you point me to some information on direct sip calling?
     
    Vox Humana, Jan 9, 2006
    #15
  16. "Vox Humana" <> writes:
    > Can you point me to some information on direct sip calling?


    Hmm. I wish I could think of a source of concise information.

    The softphones I've seen all allow dialing by url. You just enter
    in the "phone number" window to dial 555-1212 at
    address example.com. Example.com can either be a proxy or a phone
    itself. From the standpoint of SIP or the softphone it really don't
    matter. Sip phones really are just like sip proxies as far as the
    protocol is concerned.

    Both my Sipura's and Grandstream's have ways of dialing IP addresses
    from the keypad. I recall doing it once just to test it and deciding
    that it was way to many keypresses for day to day use. I believe the
    Sipura will even store these "numbers" in the speed dial slots
    although I didn't test that. The online pdf manuals from the Sipura
    and Grandstream have the details.

    If you have an ATA that is under your control another way is to use a
    halfway method where some outside program substitutes a sip URL for a
    dialed number. The easiest way to get started is to initially use
    sipbroker (at http://www.sipbroker.com/) and then later get a program
    in-house that does something similar. The sipbroker method requires
    adding bit of prefix-matching code to the front of your ATA's dial
    string. When you dial this prefix the ATA will send the SIP invite
    packet to sipbroker's proxy instead of your default proxy. They
    inturn lookup the SIP URL corresponding to this prefix and send your
    phone a SIP redirect response indicating the SIP URL of the phone or
    proxy you should connect to. Your phone then sends another SIP INVITE
    packet, this time to the desired SIP URL.

    I use asterisk to redirect my call to various sip URL's depending on
    the prefix I dial. You really don't need anything as complex as
    asterisk though. SIP is a pretty simple protocol as far as redirects
    go and you can easily send one from a half-page shell or perl script.
    (I don't yet know of any pre-packaged program that does that though.)

    There are a handful of SIP test numbers around that you can use to
    test whether direct dial is working.

    http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Phone Numbers

    -wolfgang
    --
    Wolfgang S. Rupprecht http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/
    Direct SIP URL Dialing: http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/phonedirectory.html
     
    Wolfgang S. Rupprecht, Jan 9, 2006
    #16
  17. Vox Humana

    Tony Toews Guest

    "Wolfgang S. Rupprecht" <>
    wrote:

    >> But surely Skype, or your VOIP provider, has a record of all the
    >> calls you make? Or am I misunderstanding your point? If a cell
    >> phone company is selling all your calls then why not Skype or
    >> others?

    >
    >My voip provider is me. When I make pure end-to-end SIP calls to
    >someone the only two parties involved are myself and the recipient.
    >Thats the whole beauty of it. No outsider need be involved.


    Ah,so this is similar to an MSN Msgr chat? Now I gotcha.

    Tony
    --
    Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
    Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
    read the entire thread of messages.
    Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
    http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
     
    Tony Toews, Jan 10, 2006
    #17
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