OT: Union Organizing Question

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Charlie Darwin, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts with a
    large number of independent professionals (most of whom are self-employed,
    in private practice and are spread across the county) to provide variably
    scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency offices across the
    country.

    Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?
     
    Charlie Darwin, Feb 27, 2009
    #1
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  2. Charlie Darwin

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <> wrote:
    > Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts with a
    > large number of independent professionals (most of whom are self-employed,
    > in private practice and are spread across the county) to provide variably
    > scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency offices across the
    > country.
    >
    > Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?


    If they can make contact and communicate with each other then there's
    nothing to stop them from trying to negotiate 'collectively'. Of course,
    there may be contract conditions that attempt to prevent them from doing
    that, and when it comes to the crunch the employer can simply tell them to
    take a running jump and look for less bolshy contractors.

    They might open themselves to accusations of 'anti-competitive actions',
    too.

    From what I've read about the USA, whoever can hire the best lawyers is
    likely to get whatever they want. Eventually.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Feb 27, 2009
    #2
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  3. "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <> wrote:
    >> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts with
    >> a
    >> large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
    >> self-employed,
    >> in private practice and are spread across the county) to provide variably
    >> scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency offices across
    >> the
    >> country.
    >>
    >> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?

    >
    > If they can make contact and communicate with each other then there's
    > nothing to stop them from trying to negotiate 'collectively'. Of course,
    > there may be contract conditions that attempt to prevent them from doing
    > that, and when it comes to the crunch the employer can simply tell them to
    > take a running jump and look for less bolshy contractors.
    >
    > They might open themselves to accusations of 'anti-competitive actions',
    > too.
    >
    > From what I've read about the USA, whoever can hire the best lawyers is
    > likely to get whatever they want. Eventually.
    >
    > --
    > -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    > -- Whiskers
    > -- ~~~~~~~~~~



    Nothing bolshy about this one at all, nor do I think there would be an anti
    competitive aspect to it either.

    The agency puts out a "take it or leave it" fee schedule and work-terms
    document. You can sign-on as-is--- or take a hike. And FWIW, they haven't
    raised the fees in at least 23 years!

    Their fees at this point are about 25%-30% of the usual and customary going
    commercial rate for this kind of skilled work by a licensed professional.
    Hence, my interest in seeking some power in numbers to negotiate a better
    fee!
     
    Charlie Darwin, Feb 28, 2009
    #3
  4. Re: Union Organizing Question

    "PeeCee" <> wrote in message
    news:go9qsd$2fhd$...
    > "Charlie Darwin" <> wrote in message
    > news:go9lne$ek$...
    >> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts with
    >> a large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
    >> self-employed, in private practice and are spread across the county) to
    >> provide variably scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency
    >> offices across the country.
    >>
    >> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > All it takes is for someone to get off their ass and do it.
    > Doesn't have to be a 'Union' per see but can be a 'Professional'
    > association.
    > P.


    Interesting idea...and worth a look.
     
    Charlie Darwin, Feb 28, 2009
    #4
  5. Charlie Darwin

    chuckcar Guest

    "Charlie Darwin" <> wrote in
    news:go9lne$ek$:

    > Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts
    > with a large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
    > self-employed, in private practice and are spread across the county) to
    > provide variably scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency
    > offices across the country.
    >
    > Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?
    >

    Depends on how long the average contract is. If you're talking about 3
    months, it's pretty pointless now isn't it?


    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Feb 28, 2009
    #5
  6. Charlie Darwin

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2009-02-28, Charlie Darwin <> wrote:
    > "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <> wrote:


    [...]

    > Nothing bolshy about this one at all, nor do I think there would be an anti
    > competitive aspect to it either.
    >
    > The agency puts out a "take it or leave it" fee schedule and work-terms
    > document. You can sign-on as-is--- or take a hike. And FWIW, they haven't
    > raised the fees in at least 23 years!
    >
    > Their fees at this point are about 25%-30% of the usual and customary going
    > commercial rate for this kind of skilled work by a licensed professional.
    > Hence, my interest in seeking some power in numbers to negotiate a better
    > fee!


    So the remuneration is inadeqaute in your opinion? In that case the
    obvious choice is to stand aside. If everyone else in that field also
    feels that the pay isn't worth the effort then the agency won't get any
    contractors and will have to come up with a more attractive offer. Or
    perhaps they are content with the sort of person who will work for a
    quarter of the 'going rate'; in which case, it isn't really your problem,
    is it?

    Being a 'licensed professional' has never been a guarantee of good pay, or
    of any work. No matter how much skill is involved. Presumably there is
    already a 'professional body' of some sort in which members of that
    profession can get together to do such things as eject members whose
    conduct (such as working for too little, or failing to maintain the
    standard of work) falls below what the others agree is an acceptable
    minimum.

    If a government agency is knowingly employing contractors who have been
    ejected from their professional body for such misconduct, then that
    sounds like political dynamite. Likewise if the licensing authority
    continues to grant licenses to such people.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Feb 28, 2009
    #6
  7. Charlie Darwin

    NotMe Guest

    "Charlie Darwin" <> wrote in message
    news:go9v7f$d9v$...
    : "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    : news:...
    : > On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <> wrote:
    : >> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts
    with
    : >> a
    : >> large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
    : >> self-employed,
    : >> in private practice and are spread across the county) to provide
    variably
    : >> scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency offices across
    : >> the
    : >> country.
    : >>
    : >> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?
    : >
    : > If they can make contact and communicate with each other then there's
    : > nothing to stop them from trying to negotiate 'collectively'. Of
    course,
    : > there may be contract conditions that attempt to prevent them from doing
    : > that, and when it comes to the crunch the employer can simply tell them
    to
    : > take a running jump and look for less bolshy contractors.
    : >
    : > They might open themselves to accusations of 'anti-competitive actions',
    : > too.
    : >
    : > From what I've read about the USA, whoever can hire the best lawyers is
    : > likely to get whatever they want. Eventually.
    : >
    : > --
    : > -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    : > -- Whiskers
    : > -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    :
    :
    : Nothing bolshy about this one at all, nor do I think there would be an
    anti
    : competitive aspect to it either.
    :
    : The agency puts out a "take it or leave it" fee schedule and work-terms
    : document. You can sign-on as-is--- or take a hike. And FWIW, they haven't
    : raised the fees in at least 23 years!
    :
    : Their fees at this point are about 25%-30% of the usual and customary
    going
    : commercial rate for this kind of skilled work by a licensed professional.
    : Hence, my interest in seeking some power in numbers to negotiate a better
    : fee!

    If enough providers stop accepting the jobs the fees the price offered will
    go up.

    You can form an association or guild and lobby your congress critter but we
    all know what that takes.

    I watch this happen in NC. Government moaned and groaned and started to
    bring in contractors from out of state except the expense of travel and per
    diem pushed the cost over enough that they upped the rate.

    As for me, when things were slow (aka I have nothing better to do) I take
    the deal when it's not I don't. FWIW I do then to catch up on the addendums
    to the contract as these tend to provided a lock on sourcing.
     
    NotMe, Mar 1, 2009
    #7
  8. Charlie Darwin

    NotMe Guest

    "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    : On 2009-02-28, Charlie Darwin <> wrote:
    : > "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    : > news:...
    : >> On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <> wrote:
    :
    : [...]
    :
    : > Nothing bolshy about this one at all, nor do I think there would be an
    anti
    : > competitive aspect to it either.
    : >
    : > The agency puts out a "take it or leave it" fee schedule and work-terms
    : > document. You can sign-on as-is--- or take a hike. And FWIW, they
    haven't
    : > raised the fees in at least 23 years!
    : >
    : > Their fees at this point are about 25%-30% of the usual and customary
    going
    : > commercial rate for this kind of skilled work by a licensed
    professional.
    : > Hence, my interest in seeking some power in numbers to negotiate a
    better
    : > fee!
    :
    : So the remuneration is inadeqaute in your opinion? In that case the
    : obvious choice is to stand aside. If everyone else in that field also
    : feels that the pay isn't worth the effort then the agency won't get any
    : contractors and will have to come up with a more attractive offer. Or
    : perhaps they are content with the sort of person who will work for a
    : quarter of the 'going rate'; in which case, it isn't really your problem,
    : is it?
    :
    : Being a 'licensed professional' has never been a guarantee of good pay, or
    : of any work. No matter how much skill is involved. Presumably there is
    : already a 'professional body' of some sort in which members of that
    : profession can get together to do such things as eject members whose
    : conduct (such as working for too little, or failing to maintain the
    : standard of work) falls below what the others agree is an acceptable
    : minimum.
    :
    : If a government agency is knowingly employing contractors who have been
    : ejected from their professional body for such misconduct, then that
    : sounds like political dynamite. Likewise if the licensing authority
    : continues to grant licenses to such people.

    Social Security hires physicians as IME (independent? medical examiners)
    that have lost their privileges to treat patients for various reasons
    including insurance fraud and drug abuse. Expect no change as the practice
    has been in place for over 15 years to my personal knowledge.
     
    NotMe, Mar 1, 2009
    #8
  9. Charlie Darwin

    Guest

    chuckcar <> wrote:

    >"Charlie Darwin" <> wrote in
    >news:go9lne$ek$:
    >
    >> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts
    >> with a large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
    >> self-employed, in private practice and are spread across the county) to
    >> provide variably scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency
    >> offices across the country.
    >>
    >> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?


    >Depends on how long the average contract is. If you're talking about 3
    >months, it's pretty pointless now isn't it?


    What an idiot. ----------Macro time

    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
    chucktard, Chuckturd, idiot, clueless, many more names this persons is
    called as time goes on. He makes no friends and alienates all he comes
    in contact with.

    He will give wrong information, stick to it to his last breath, then
    change his stance to the proper solution when it appears - taking
    credit for it as well.

    This person has no self pity and will steal others advice as his own.
    It's quite obvious when it happens.

    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) always has to appear right or correct
    and those long threads you see involving him is a "who can last the
    longest" or just the fact that he has to be right no matter how wrong
    he is. and I swear, last post appears important as well, an awful
    combination.

    While this is no problem and has happened before, this person will
    give advice that can cause you to lose your data, lose your computer
    (bad bios info) or just flat screw you.

    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) is a person who has never used a NT OS
    yet feels quite comfortable giving advice he has never used himself.

    Apparently advice was given by a very well known troll that was and
    eaiser to implement and had a back up plan if anything went wrong;
    than the ramble of bs (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) was coming up
    with, making him, in his mind lower than this troll.

    Seriously if you receive advice from (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ),
    google the information first to see if it's even in the ball park.

    This group likes the fact it's able to help others, (setq (chuck nil)
    car(chuck) ) really doesn't care about the user, just how he comes
    across (and that's always being seen as right)

    This person has started childs attempt for attention, and this macro
    is my answer. Sorry bout that.

    But (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) anytime you come up with some of
    your bogus advice, I will call you on it.

    Pennywise.
    --

    kinda hard to explain.
    http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9365/4051.jpg
     
    , Mar 2, 2009
    #9
  10. Charlie Darwin

    NotMe Guest

    "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:MPG.2414c78dfa81b66b989681@localhost...
    : In article <goe34j$fos$>, says...
    : >
    : >
    : <snip>
    :
    : > :
    : > : If a government agency is knowingly employing contractors who have
    been
    : > : ejected from their professional body for such misconduct, then that
    : > : sounds like political dynamite. Likewise if the licensing authority
    : > : continues to grant licenses to such people.
    : >
    : > Social Security hires physicians as IME (independent? medical examiners)
    : > that have lost their privileges to treat patients for various reasons
    : > including insurance fraud and drug abuse. Expect no change as the
    practice
    : > has been in place for over 15 years to my personal knowledge.
    :
    :
    : Do SS IME's actually treat patients?

    Some do but not under SSA as it's not a requirement for SSA or insurance
    purposes.

    the technical definition of IME is Independent but most consider the title
    to be INSURANCE as their decision tend to be toward company. (most know
    their offer of job is dependant on the company. A propensity to decide for
    the patient and the IME does not get called to work. (same applies to
    mandatory credit card arbitration)
     
    NotMe, Mar 2, 2009
    #10
  11. In article <goe34j$fos$>, "NotMe" <>
    wrote:

    > Social Security hires physicians as IME (independent? medical examiners)
    > that have lost their privileges to treat patients for various reasons
    > including insurance fraud and drug abuse. Expect no change as the practice
    > has been in place for over 15 years to my personal knowledge.


    And since the can pay them less than qualified physicians and they have
    little other professional options they can be pressured to give the
    answer SS wants. So, if you are disabled you *must* hire a lawyer to
    fight the system as they will turn down obvious cases.
     
    Walter Bushell, Mar 18, 2009
    #11
  12. In article <MPG.2415d7aa5c196eac989685@localhost>,
    Bill <> wrote:

    >
    > (IMO) Ok, so as far as the SS administration figures it, they're not
    > actually breaking any law, they're just getting somebody with medical
    > knowledge on the cheap because their hire-ability in the general
    > workplace has been damaged.
    >
    > Typical government thinking. If the IME goes against the SSA too often
    > they're not called < as you said > and since they have a hard time
    > finding any sort of work in their field they'll do what the SSA tells
    > them to do.
    >
    > Don't see how you can change it for the better if they're <the SSA>
    > aren't breaking any laws though.


    I would strongly think that most if not all the IME are disqualified
    doctors or doctors just starting out, maybe starting a practice and not
    having enough patients and so on. OTOH
     
    Walter Bushell, Mar 18, 2009
    #12
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