Paisleyskye, First of all I am not here to enter into the "Flame War, I am a simple systems analyst contractor that finds all this rather amusing. Paisleyskye, I think you need to, as the Americans say, "Chill Out". The messages posted here which seem to be causing you so much concern are no more than background noise, the content of which you will find within the average office environment even in the [overly] "politically correct" UK. While I do not care to participate to such message posting, I do however read the harmless chitchat amongst the members of this group, much of which makes me laugh. Granted much of which is off topic, but those people are not criminals. In many of your messages I have read today, you mention how people are "TORTURED", well I see little in this group to backup such remarks. The only "people" who are "TORTURED" are the spammers, trolls and brain dump pioneers which together only serve to undermine the status of an MCSE. I personally do not indulge in "TORTURING" those type worthless people, however the people who do so have my full backing, it's a shame Microsoft does not do more to stop the troll's, spammer's etc, etc from ruining the certification experience for the rest of us. I took the trouble to have a look at the article posted on the ICertify.net site, I remember many of the messages you mention, all of which are of a humorous nature. As such, anyone who sees those posts as anything more than people laughing and joking around should seek help before they top themselves, they certainly would not last five minutes in some of the offices/departments I've worked in. The only post I saw which could be deemed as offensive was the one which questioned your sexuality; rather uncalled for, but I understand the message poster has apologised to you, which to me, shows a level of maturity you will not find within a spammer, troll or brain dump pioneer. I also notice that several of the MCNGP "members" have posted replies on at least one of the forums maintained by you. Half expecting this "Flame War" to decent in to your own area, I was pleasantly surprised by the constructiveness and good nature of the replies posted by those "thugs" as you would have them known as. One final point I will bring to your attention; you make reference to "newbies" who are also abused. Well as far as I am aware the mcse certification is not targeted at "newbies". There are already too many paper mcse's in existence who achieve the title without out having any worthwhile "real world" experience. In any case I don't see "newbies" getting abused in the newsgroup, I do however see many idiotic messages many of which are repeated over and over again, by people who clearly do not have the ability and experience to legitimately become an mcse. Again this is a problem Microsoft has not addressed, so the problem continues despite companies saying "Please, no more paper MCSE's". In one of you messages you mention that people have to start somewhere, well I completely agree, however the MCSE certification is not the starting point. An MCSE needs to have more than the ability to simply download and memorise answers to the multitude of "practice tests" out there, the practice of which only helps to undermine the value of the MCSE title. Name and email withheld because I don't want to be flamed by you or anyone else; as I'm not a "member" of the MCNGP I guess the Flaming could come from both directions.