OT - Different tones from Camera Raw to Photoshop CS5

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by celcius, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. celcius

    celcius Guest

    Hi everyone!

    Sorry to disturb the group for a Photoshop problem which I couldn't resolve
    in the proper forum. I'm hoping that someone here might be able to help me.

    I've searched for a solution everywhere, but can't find any. The "Help file
    in Photoshop or Camera Raw doesn't seem to address this problem. I've
    pre-ordered a book (Scott Kelby's), but it's only coming out at the end of
    the month.

    My Problem:
    When I'm in Camera Raw, colours have a certain tone and vividness.
    When I open the same photo in Photoshop from Camera Raw, it's not quite the
    same, maybe a bit lighter...

    Where I'm at:
    Camera Raw is set at: Adobe RGB 1998.
    Photoshop is set at: Adobe RGB 1998, US web coated (SWOPO) v2, dot gain gray
    20%, dot gain spot 20%, RGB, CMYK, gray, OFF.
    I'm also using Spyder3 Pro.
    Should I set Photoshop to "Monitor RGB, etc." (the same profile as my
    screen - LG)? Or should I leave it to Adobe RGB?
    When I print from Photoshop, I use "Photoshop manages colour" and use as
    printer profile the same as my screen- LG. I also use "relative
    colorimetric".

    Any suggestions, please?

    Thanks.

    Marcel
     
    celcius, Jul 17, 2010
    #1
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  2. celcius

    Peter Guest

    "celcius" <> wrote in message
    news:i1t67s$o42$...
    > Hi everyone!
    >
    > Sorry to disturb the group for a Photoshop problem which I couldn't
    > resolve in the proper forum. I'm hoping that someone here might be able to
    > help me.
    >
    > I've searched for a solution everywhere, but can't find any. The "Help
    > file
    > in Photoshop or Camera Raw doesn't seem to address this problem. I've
    > pre-ordered a book (Scott Kelby's), but it's only coming out at the end of
    > the month.
    >
    > My Problem:
    > When I'm in Camera Raw, colours have a certain tone and vividness.
    > When I open the same photo in Photoshop from Camera Raw, it's not quite
    > the
    > same, maybe a bit lighter...
    >
    > Where I'm at:
    > Camera Raw is set at: Adobe RGB 1998.
    > Photoshop is set at: Adobe RGB 1998, US web coated (SWOPO) v2, dot gain
    > gray
    > 20%, dot gain spot 20%, RGB, CMYK, gray, OFF.
    > I'm also using Spyder3 Pro.
    > Should I set Photoshop to "Monitor RGB, etc." (the same profile as my
    > screen - LG)? Or should I leave it to Adobe RGB?
    > When I print from Photoshop, I use "Photoshop manages colour" and use as
    > printer profile the same as my screen- LG. I also use "relative
    > colorimetric".
    >
    > Any suggestions, please?
    >



    Some thoughts:
    Do you have the latest version of Camera Raw?
    It sounds as if you CR profile is not the same as you PS color profile
    because some setting in PS is fighting your monitor profile.
    How accurate is your printing color.

    Have you tried setting everything to sRGB.

    Also, have you tried the Adobe forums. They are quite helpful.

    Let us know

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 18, 2010
    #2
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  3. celcius

    celcius Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:4c4255b9$0$5513$-secrets.com...
    > "celcius" <> wrote in message
    > news:i1t67s$o42$...
    >> Hi everyone!
    >>
    >> Sorry to disturb the group for a Photoshop problem which I couldn't
    >> resolve in the proper forum. I'm hoping that someone here might be able
    >> to help me.
    >>
    >> I've searched for a solution everywhere, but can't find any. The "Help
    >> file
    >> in Photoshop or Camera Raw doesn't seem to address this problem. I've
    >> pre-ordered a book (Scott Kelby's), but it's only coming out at the end
    >> of
    >> the month.
    >>
    >> My Problem:
    >> When I'm in Camera Raw, colours have a certain tone and vividness.
    >> When I open the same photo in Photoshop from Camera Raw, it's not quite
    >> the
    >> same, maybe a bit lighter...
    >>
    >> Where I'm at:
    >> Camera Raw is set at: Adobe RGB 1998.
    >> Photoshop is set at: Adobe RGB 1998, US web coated (SWOPO) v2, dot gain
    >> gray
    >> 20%, dot gain spot 20%, RGB, CMYK, gray, OFF.
    >> I'm also using Spyder3 Pro.
    >> Should I set Photoshop to "Monitor RGB, etc." (the same profile as my
    >> screen - LG)? Or should I leave it to Adobe RGB?
    >> When I print from Photoshop, I use "Photoshop manages colour" and use as
    >> printer profile the same as my screen- LG. I also use "relative
    >> colorimetric".
    >>
    >> Any suggestions, please?
    >>

    >
    >
    > Some thoughts:
    > Do you have the latest version of Camera Raw?
    > It sounds as if you CR profile is not the same as you PS color profile
    > because some setting in PS is fighting your monitor profile.
    > How accurate is your printing color.
    >
    > Have you tried setting everything to sRGB.
    >
    > Also, have you tried the Adobe forums. They are quite helpful.
    >
    > Let us know
    >

    Hi Peter!

    Thank you for answering. Sorry for not acknowledging sooner. I was out of
    town.

    I do have the latest version of Camera Raw: 6.1

    My printing on a new Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is a tad darker that on the
    screen. I installed the machine yesterday and haven't had time to read even
    part of the manual.
    I haven't tried sRGB because the colours are not has rich and even though it
    might settle the problem, I wouldn't be satisfied with the results. Was
    there a particular reason for trying it out?
    However, I should point out that I always change the camera calibration
    from "Adobe Standard" to "Camera Standard". Perhaps I shouldn't touch that?
    I noticed that on some photos, doing so "warms up" and darkens the pic a wee
    bit . It seems to me that if I leave it at "Adobe Standard", there's less of
    a difference. What do you think? (On the Canon, I have a choice of setting
    the shoot at: Camera Faithful, Neutral, Landscape, Portrait and Standard).

    Best regards,

    Marcel
     
    celcius, Jul 20, 2010
    #3
  4. celcius

    Bruce Guest

    On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:48:53 -0400, "celcius" <>
    wrote:
    >
    >My printing on a new Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is a tad darker that on the
    >screen. I installed the machine yesterday and haven't had time to read even
    >part of the manual.



    You need to calibrate your screen so the results will be identical.
     
    Bruce, Jul 20, 2010
    #4
  5. celcius

    MC Guest

    Re: OT - Different tones from Camera Raw to Photoshop CS5

    Bruce wrote:

    > On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:48:53 -0400, "celcius" <>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > My printing on a new Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is a tad darker that
    > > on the screen. I installed the machine yesterday and haven't had
    > > time to read even part of the manual.

    >
    >
    > You need to calibrate your screen so the results will be identical.


    And use the correct paper/printer profiles in PS.

    MC
     
    MC, Jul 20, 2010
    #5
  6. celcius

    Bruce Guest

    Re: OT - Different tones from Camera Raw to Photoshop CS5

    On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:58:47 GMT, "MC" <> wrote:
    >Bruce wrote:
    >> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:48:53 -0400, "celcius" <>
    >> wrote:
    >> >
    >> > My printing on a new Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is a tad darker that
    >> > on the screen. I installed the machine yesterday and haven't had
    >> > time to read even part of the manual.

    >>
    >>
    >> You need to calibrate your screen so the results will be identical.

    >
    >And use the correct paper/printer profiles in PS.



    I took that as read, but you're right, it was probably something else
    the OP neglected to do.
     
    Bruce, Jul 20, 2010
    #6
  7. celcius

    celcius Guest

    "Bruce" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:48:53 -0400, "celcius" <>
    > wrote:
    >>
    >>My printing on a new Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is a tad darker that on the
    >>screen. I installed the machine yesterday and haven't had time to read
    >>even
    >>part of the manual.

    >
    >
    > You need to calibrate your screen so the results will be identical.
    >


    Hi Bruce!
    I have. I use Spyder3 Pro
    Marcel
     
    celcius, Jul 20, 2010
    #7
  8. celcius

    celcius Guest

    Re: OT - Different tones from Camera Raw to Photoshop CS5

    "MC" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Bruce wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:48:53 -0400, "celcius" <>
    >> wrote:
    >> >
    >> > My printing on a new Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is a tad darker that
    >> > on the screen. I installed the machine yesterday and haven't had
    >> > time to read even part of the manual.

    >>
    >>
    >> You need to calibrate your screen so the results will be identical.

    >
    > And use the correct paper/printer profiles in PS.
    >
    > MC


    Hi MC!
    I 've done that, although I will check again.
    For your info and hopefully mine too ;-), this is what I have checked:
    Photoshop manages color.
    Printer profile: same as my monitor as calibrated.
    Rendering intent: Perceptual
    checked also "Black Point Compensation"
    Print settings: as set in Epson Sylus Photo 1400 (proper paper, size, and
    "photoenhance".
    On the extreme left, I've also checked the following:
    -match print colors
    -Gamut warning
    -show paper white (no problem there).
    Do you see any problem on the above?
    Thanks.
    Best regards,
    Marcel
     
    celcius, Jul 20, 2010
    #8
  9. celcius wrote:
    >
    > "Bruce" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:48:53 -0400, "celcius" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> My printing on a new Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is a tad darker that on the
    >>> screen. I installed the machine yesterday and haven't had time to
    >>> read even
    >>> part of the manual.

    >>
    >>
    >> You need to calibrate your screen so the results will be identical.
    >>

    >
    > Hi Bruce!
    > I have. I use Spyder3 Pro


    It's luminance that's the hard part. It changes with changes in ambient
    light, and prints never match the monitor no matter how well calibrated,
    how well controlled the ambient light. You can get close enough for
    excellent results, though. Trial and error after the best calibration
    you can do- including setting the luminance control.

    Another check is to see if your image's white and black points are set
    correctly, ignoring the screen results over what the software shows.

    --
    john mcwilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 20, 2010
    #9
  10. celcius

    Guest

    Re: OT - Different tones from Camera Raw to Photoshop CS5

    On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:01:52 -0400, in rec.photo.digital "celcius"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >For your info and hopefully mine too ;-), this is what I have checked:
    >Photoshop manages color.
    >Printer profile: same as my monitor as calibrated.


    NO, the monitor profile and the printer profile are two completely
    separate and unrelated things.



    >Rendering intent: Perceptual
    >checked also "Black Point Compensation"
    >Print settings: as set in Epson Sylus Photo 1400 (proper paper, size, and
    >"photoenhance".


    If you wish to use a color managed work flow, why are you then
    changing how colors are interpreted other than from the monitor and
    printer profiles?


    >On the extreme left, I've also checked the following:
    >-match print colors
    >-Gamut warning
    >-show paper white (no problem there).
    >Do you see any problem on the above?


    Yes, see above comments.
     
    , Jul 20, 2010
    #10
  11. celcius

    Peter Guest

    "celcius" <> wrote in message
    news:i242f9$gc7$...
    >
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:4c4255b9$0$5513$-secrets.com...
    >> "celcius" <> wrote in message
    >> news:i1t67s$o42$...
    >>> Hi everyone!
    >>>
    >>> Sorry to disturb the group for a Photoshop problem which I couldn't
    >>> resolve in the proper forum. I'm hoping that someone here might be able
    >>> to help me.
    >>>
    >>> I've searched for a solution everywhere, but can't find any. The "Help
    >>> file
    >>> in Photoshop or Camera Raw doesn't seem to address this problem. I've
    >>> pre-ordered a book (Scott Kelby's), but it's only coming out at the end
    >>> of
    >>> the month.
    >>>
    >>> My Problem:
    >>> When I'm in Camera Raw, colours have a certain tone and vividness.
    >>> When I open the same photo in Photoshop from Camera Raw, it's not quite
    >>> the
    >>> same, maybe a bit lighter...
    >>>
    >>> Where I'm at:
    >>> Camera Raw is set at: Adobe RGB 1998.
    >>> Photoshop is set at: Adobe RGB 1998, US web coated (SWOPO) v2, dot gain
    >>> gray
    >>> 20%, dot gain spot 20%, RGB, CMYK, gray, OFF.
    >>> I'm also using Spyder3 Pro.
    >>> Should I set Photoshop to "Monitor RGB, etc." (the same profile as my
    >>> screen - LG)? Or should I leave it to Adobe RGB?
    >>> When I print from Photoshop, I use "Photoshop manages colour" and use as
    >>> printer profile the same as my screen- LG. I also use "relative
    >>> colorimetric".
    >>>
    >>> Any suggestions, please?
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Some thoughts:
    >> Do you have the latest version of Camera Raw?
    >> It sounds as if you CR profile is not the same as you PS color profile
    >> because some setting in PS is fighting your monitor profile.
    >> How accurate is your printing color.
    >>
    >> Have you tried setting everything to sRGB.
    >>
    >> Also, have you tried the Adobe forums. They are quite helpful.
    >>
    >> Let us know
    >>

    > Hi Peter!
    >
    > Thank you for answering. Sorry for not acknowledging sooner. I was out of
    > town.
    >
    > I do have the latest version of Camera Raw: 6.1
    >
    > My printing on a new Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is a tad darker that on the
    > screen. I installed the machine yesterday and haven't had time to read
    > even part of the manual.
    > I haven't tried sRGB because the colours are not has rich and even though
    > it might settle the problem, I wouldn't be satisfied with the results. Was
    > there a particular reason for trying it out?
    > However, I should point out that I always change the camera calibration
    > from "Adobe Standard" to "Camera Standard". Perhaps I shouldn't touch
    > that? I noticed that on some photos, doing so "warms up" and darkens the
    > pic a wee bit . It seems to me that if I leave it at "Adobe Standard",
    > there's less of a difference. What do you think? (On the Canon, I have a
    > choice of setting the shoot at: Camera Faithful, Neutral, Landscape,
    > Portrait and Standard).




    I never edit in sRGB. You are right, it is a much smaller color gamut that
    RGB.
    Is your camera image RGB?


    Do I understand this correctly.
    Your onscreen color in Camera Raw is different than your on screen setting
    in PS. Assuming that you are viewing your monitor in the same ambient light,
    is your color space Adobe RGB for both ACR and PS?
    First lets get raw to match PS.
    Europe uses different settings than North America, so let's standardize.
    In PS make you color settings = "monitor color" This will automatically set
    your working settings.
    Turn off all color management policies
    Your conversion options should be Adobe (ACE); and "relative colormetrics"
    activate the three check boxes below.

    Do not check any of the advance controls at this time.

    If this does not solve the initial problem, your issue is beyond my
    knowledge and I suggest you try the Adobe forums.





    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 20, 2010
    #11
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